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I think I hate leaf switch sticks.....
opt2not:
--- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on February 02, 2012, 06:05:51 pm ---If, in any thread, Cheffo, RandyT and Xiaou2 all agree, well then either they are talking about what should be an obvious truth or you had best be watching for the four horsemen.
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:lol
Truth.
Vigo:
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 02, 2012, 05:49:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Vigo on February 01, 2012, 04:52:21 pm ---I didn't really read the post from donk as meaning that microswitches weren't available....I more read it that leafs were just the dominant type of joystick available for commercial machines. It was the norm.
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As others have stated; it was "the norm" for a reason, and that reason isn't because it was "what they had laying around". There are fundamental differences in performance between the two switch types. There is no reset phase in the operation of a leaf switch. This is a big plus for a number of gaming controller applications.
My take on it is that the industry went to snap action switches primarily at the behest of the operators who may have had hundreds of machines on a route, making regular maintenance a nightmare. Snap action switches smash through corrosion or dirt much better than the wiping action of the leaf. The wiping action also wears the heck out of the contacts when a leaf is poorly adjusted and/or improperly installed. But this change didn't enhance the experience of the customer when playing the game, other than that the controller on a neglected machine would at least work.
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Well, I didn't really state there wasn't a real reason for it being the norm. In fact I wasn't really stating anything other than my interpretation of what donk said. I do agree with you that leafs were considered the standard at the time for a darn good reason. I personally love leafs.
I will agree with donk though that probably quite a few games with leafs that were never tested to see how they worked with other various joysticks. If the game worked well with leafs, they would just go with a leaf joy like wico or their own company's proprietary leaf joy. Maybe they would tinker around with shafts but that is about it. Why step into a completely new joystick unless there was a reason to do so?
Therefore, when someone takes only the staunch purist view that when someone says that X game came dedicated with Y joystick, therefore Y is the best joystick for the game....well that may be true, it may not be true. Depends on the game. But if Y joystick is a leaf, chances are it will play well if not the best with the game.
I do agree about the statements the micros became big due to cost and whim of the Ops. Just seems like more of the disposable option. Everybody wins...well, maybe not the gamer.
Green Giant:
--- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on February 02, 2012, 06:05:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 02, 2012, 05:49:15 pm ---
--- Quote from: Vigo on February 01, 2012, 04:52:21 pm ---I didn't really read the post from donk as meaning that microswitches weren't available....I more read it that leafs were just the dominant type of joystick available for commercial machines. It was the norm.
--- End quote ---
As others have stated; it was "the norm" for a reason, and that reason isn't because it was "what they had laying around". There are fundamental differences in performance between the two switch types. There is no reset phase in the operation of a leaf switch. This is a big plus for a number of gaming controller applications.
My take on it is that the industry went to snap action switches primarily at the behest of the operators who may have had hundreds of machines on a route, making regular maintenance a nightmare. Snap action switches smash through corrosion or dirt much better than the wiping action of the leaf. The wiping action also wears the heck out of the contacts when a leaf is poorly adjusted and/or improperly installed. But this change didn't enhance the experience of the customer when playing the game, other than that the controller on a neglected machine would at least work.
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THIS.
FWIW, there were microswitch-based joys at the time ... and they were made of Strongtanium(tm).
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Where do I get one of those????
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---will agree with donk though that probably quite a few games with leafs that were never tested to see how they worked with other various joysticks. If the game worked well with leafs, they would just go with a leaf joy like wico or their own company's proprietary leaf joy.
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The older arcade machines were tested to the hilt. Back then, playability was the main focus.. because games didnt have amazing graphical 'sparkle' to wow the players with.
If you look at a game like Gyruss... it uses a non wico leaf joystick that was custom, called a 'Monroe' stick. Its design was made to be more durable and enhanced for the type of gameplay used.. which was basically rolling the stick in an outside circle.. constantly. They could have used a standard wico.. and more than likely tried it in tests... but found the experience translated to problems with quick stick wear... and thus playability issues.
A games controller was key to how a game played, and how it developed in its creation. Its not like today... where games are altered to be easier, so that Any type of controller could be used with it. Back then, they made games super critical and balanced tightly. Hard Time limits, skin-of-your-teeth reactions needed.
Vigo:
Sure, that's true sometimes, but look at games like Gauntlet and Indiana Jones. They used the Atari logo leafs, I am sorry but those joysticks are just dogs... Apologies to the "Atari logo joystick fanboys" that I am upsetting, but there is no chance in hell the Atari developers tested to the hilt and found that those gruesome beasts were the sticks that worked best of all. They had them, they worked, end of line.
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