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I think I hate leaf switch sticks.....

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armi0024:
Sorry I burned out half way through the thread :)
Opt: Don't Randy's leafs fit some old set ups with some minor adjustments?  Otherwise there aren't many options, supposedly Bob's supplier dried up

In regards to the Wolfeel sticks, those were just the shafts and balls, we did the balls to get them as a true 1.5".  He is doing a second run, and there will be hollow shafts in the future.  We had a bad batch of balls come in and had to do a second run.  Wolfeel has been beating down my door for that second batch.

My personal opinion is that the games were made to be enjoyed, so if you like playing Pacman with an Assault stick, fine with me.  I definitely like using different controls for different games and it takes a while to get the feel of what is out there and what can be done.  It's almost like a much more simplified version of what wine to have with dinner.  Normally you put reds with meat, but hey, maybe you love steak with Chardonnay.  Sometimes just as much fun to try out a new control on an old game as it is to try out a new game on an old control.  And maybe I think the best thing with steak is a milkshake :)

I wish more people hated using Wico's... that would leave more for me, I need a 6-8 of them for the current batch of Williams games I am playing.

danny_galaga:

--- Quote from: Green Giant on February 01, 2012, 05:42:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 01, 2012, 04:45:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: Donkbaca on February 01, 2012, 04:22:58 pm ---I don't think there was much thought put into it, the reason that leaf sticks were used is because they were the only things they had around.

--- End quote ---

The "microswitch" has been commercially available since 1937.  I guess 40 years wasn't long enough for the arcade manufacturers to catch wind of it  :P

--- End quote ---
Get your facts straight son.

Max Wiezer said "aint no crappy ass microswitches in my products".  Hence there were no microswitches.


Also the patent probably would have put a damper on profits.

--- End quote ---

 ???

Have I missed something? What's patents got to do with anything? You put a microswitch in your product, you do just that. Price of the patent is built into the product. Buying the switch by the thousand means you are paying pennies per switch. Might even be cheaper than making leaf switches.

RandyT:

--- Quote from: danny_galaga on May 02, 2012, 08:15:59 am --- ???

Have I missed something? What's patents got to do with anything? You put a microswitch in your product, you do just that. Price of the patent is built into the product. Buying the switch by the thousand means you are paying pennies per switch. Might even be cheaper than making leaf switches.

--- End quote ---

IANAL, but I have had enough patent experience to understand the principles.  You can't patent the switch, but you can patent the use of it in another product.  Of course, there has to be some unique use that would not be "obvious to one skilled in the art", so inventing a joystick which uses it in a unique enough way to conform to this standard would be difficult, and that is putting it mildly.  Also, it does not invalidate the original switch patent, so one couldn't just make their own identical microswitch as part of a joystick assembly, and call it a new item.  Purchasing the patented item for use in an assembly would usually be enough, unless the same company also had a significantly similar joystick patent using those switches.

Also, we buy switches by the many thousands and they don't get that inexpensive in quantity.  Most switches will use at least some precious metals, and that tends to limit the discounts quite a bit.  They would have also, at that time, been paying for a lot of the R&D and factory equipment, so I'm sure they weren't cheap.  That cost aspect has improved considerably nowadays.

RandyT

danny_galaga:

--- Quote from: RandyT on May 02, 2012, 05:06:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: danny_galaga on May 02, 2012, 08:15:59 am --- ???

Have I missed something? What's patents got to do with anything? You put a microswitch in your product, you do just that. Price of the patent is built into the product. Buying the switch by the thousand means you are paying pennies per switch. Might even be cheaper than making leaf switches.

--- End quote ---

IANAL, but I have had enough patent experience to understand the principles.  You can't patent the switch, but you can patent the use of it in another product.  Of course, there has to be some unique use that would not be "obvious to one skilled in the art", so inventing a joystick which uses it in a unique enough way to conform to this standard would be difficult, and that is putting it mildly.  Also, it does not invalidate the original switch patent, so one couldn't just make their own identical microswitch as part of a joystick assembly, and call it a new item.  Purchasing the patented item for use in an assembly would usually be enough, unless the same company also had a significantly similar joystick patent using those switches.

Also, we buy switches by the many thousands and they don't get that inexpensive in quantity.  Most switches will use at least some precious metals, and that tends to limit the discounts quite a bit.  They would have also, at that time, been paying for a lot of the R&D and factory equipment, so I'm sure they weren't cheap.  That cost aspect has improved considerably nowadays.

RandyT

--- End quote ---

So in other words, just buying the microswitch to put in your joystick is usually enough, much like I said  ;)

RandyT:

--- Quote from: danny_galaga on May 03, 2012, 08:30:30 am ---So in other words, just buying the microswitch to put in your joystick is usually enough, much like I said  ;)

--- End quote ---

Yes, so long as there wasn't another patented, substantially identical stick using those switches.  As the art was relatively new at the time, there very probably was.  Also, your cost estimation was off by quite a bit.  You can still find microswitches which cost many dollars each, and I suspect these were the norm in those days.  The inexpensive ones are a relatively new development, thanks to off-shore mass production and increased competition.

Nowadays, the issues affecting cost and patentability are largely moot, but we aren't talking about today's business environment.

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