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iMAME Arcade Emulator Hits the App Store (For Now)
Haze:
--- Quote from: Space Fractal on December 31, 2011, 07:58:46 am ---I think this typic is going very much offtypic now and should been closed. Typical Apple hateboys.
--- End quote ---
I've levelled equal critisism at Microsoft for their role in this with Windows 8.
If Apple were doing *good* for technology (and not all that long ago they were pioneers of such) then I'd be singing their praises. Instead what they're doing is just plain evil, and succeeding because the masses who simply don't *care* about people developing their own stuff keep buying into their business design.
Nothing to do with it being Apple specifically.
I wouldn't say this was off-topic, the fact that they can pull iMAME and stop anybody with a legitimate unjailbroken device run software of their choosing just highlights this, and please note, iMAME isn't something I even approve of personally so I should be happy they're pulling it, but it's neccessary to look at the bigger picture.
Singapura:
--- Quote from: Haze on December 31, 2011, 07:41:35 am ---Well you only have your black and grey markets on current systems because they can be cracked / jailbroken to run apps outside of Apple's control.
Note, the DMCA exception made it legal to Jailbreak the phones, it didn't make it a legal requirement for them to be possible to jailbreak.
As security gets better, and development tools improve / automatically warn against / prevent the most common vulnerabilities etc. you'll start to find less ways into these devices in cases where the manufacturers don't want you to have access.
The end result will be every app has to be approved, can be withdrawn (even from your phone) at any point (most can already do this, but it hasn't been widely used yet) For developers this means in order for other users to run your app it will have to go through an approval process, and be signed, usually at cost.
You won't be able to produce anything which might compete with official software available on the platform (we've already seen this many times over, with Apple copying functionality of apps then killing them from the store because they duplicate functionality already in the new version of the system, even if people have to pay / upgrade their phones to use that!) You also won't find anything they don't want there (such as emulators)
Note, that is how Apple want things to be, and if you really think they'll exert less control once they had a completely 'secure' system then I'm simply going to sit here and laugh at you. (note they always refer to patches to close ways to Jailbreak their systems as 'security updates for your benefit') They want complete control over the market, then want a cut of everything developed and sold.
In such an environment a project like MAME would never have even got off the ground, you'd have been unable to establish any kind of developer base, developers would be out of pocket, and the app would just end up getting pulled anyway, Apple don't even allow basic interpretors for fear somebody could code their own games in them, bypassing the store concept; that was the whole reason some of the older speccy / c64 emus got pulled, people found a way to access BASIC in them!
The only reason you have things as you do now is because of the openness and freedom of the PC desktop as a development platform on which anybody can write code, and anybody can run said code. Unfortunately with Windows 8 even Microsoft are taking a step away from that, the 'new' interface (modelled on phones no less) is locked down. Thankfully the old interface remains, for now, but it does make me wonder, how long will it be before you can only take full advantage of the PC hardware if you're running under the new system?. Having an open platform is pretty much useless if you only have crippled access to the hardware (see PS3 linux before it was pulled altogether)
It's a worrying situation, and while alternative approaches are popping up (Google's Native Platform etc.) those are sandboxed environments which severely cripple what you can do when it comes to performance code etc. Note in the said port to the Google platform the Dynamic recompilers etc. in MAME had to be disabled simply because you can't do that there (would allow too many easy exploits)
This Apple / phone influenced technology path is not a good thing for anybody, except commercial vendors, and even then you get screwed over at the whim of the company in charge and with the patent wars raging nothing is safe.
As 'cool' as the i gadgets appear to be (and I've never even seen that, you've always paid more for less functionality and lower specs) the trend being set by them is probably the biggest threat to general computing since it's conception.
--- End quote ---
My family is completely Apple minded. We have 2 iPads, 2 iPhones, a Macbook Air, a 27" iMac and a number of iPods. Still I agree with every word that Haze posted. It has nothing to do with being an anti fanboi. The worrying trend is continuing and things will only get stricter. Today an app called Vector Tanks was pulled because Atari pulled some strings with Apple. According to Atari, Vector Tanks was too close to Battlezone. If this was the case there are numerous ways that Atari could have gotten justice. Apple however only listens to "big players". If they were really so strict against cloning, why is Gameloft one of the biggest publishers in the appstore? Locking down an environment may be good from a security point of view but it certainly is not good when it it is abused by arbitrarily booting apps from the only distribution system that doesn't require jailbreaking. There is no independent review of Apple decisions and they can severely affect the kind of apps that will be developed.
Space Fractal:
I said that because I simply very tired when debate of iMame, which its should have been, now turn into a debate about a typical Apple politic (allways negative just because its Apple, and yes Apple fans is also not that better).....
Now its about Apple's Politic.
Haze:
--- Quote from: Space Fractal on December 31, 2011, 09:47:12 am ---I said that because I simply very tired when debate of iMame, which its should have been, now turn into a debate about a typical Apple politic (allways negative just because its Apple, and yes Apple fans is also not that better).....
Now its about Apple's Politic.
--- End quote ---
As I've said, it's nothing to do with Apple specifically, it's about the design models being pushed, and how they will affect *your* enjoyment of things (such as iMAME) in future hardware generations if the trend continues, even possibly on the PC.
If you end up with a situation where the only way to run your own code on Windows is inside of another virtual machine (Virtual PC) then MAME performance is crippled beyond belief. If you end up with a situation where you can only run user code created in a limited sandboxed language like C# (the only way a home user can develop on the XBOX right now for example) then MAME, at least on Windows is dead. If you end up with a situation where all big store/brand purchased PCs are completely locked down, and you have to pay a premium for unlocked hardware to even install a non-windows OS (and the gears are turning on that front) then likewise, MAME is dead because attracting potential developers becomes impossible and your potential user base is slashed to almost 0. If you end up in a situation where you have no local mass storage, and everything is 'in the cloud' likewise you've lost complete control over what's on your machine.
That is the direction in which technology is creeping, and if you want to see projects like MAME survive, and not be pulled like iMAME was here then the population as a whole are going to have to be more vigilant against such things.
Whether you like it or not products such as the iPhone, as well as current consoles have almost got the masses to accept this as the way forward, which is extremely concerning. I'm sorry if you think this is just an anti Apple politics rant, because it's something much bigger. The fact that we're even talking about companies being able to revoke your ability to download and use a piece of software on a device you own, nevermind actually have the power to remotely remove it if pushed is scary, and something unimaginable only a few years back. This whole iMAME fiasco should be a stark reminder to people of that, somebody ported a free application, perfectly within the bounds of the law in itself, and simply can't even give it away.
taylormadelv:
Great computing technology almost ALWAYS has started with an Apple product of some kind, every single time personal computing has moved foward, it has been Apple at the head of these developments (save for being stuck at G4 500/OS 10 for 2 years).
Great, Apple has the newest coolest gadget and then they pull imame. No big deal. The real key here is that there is always a competitor (read "theif") that will always copy what Apple has done and brand it with another name. The equalizer in this particluar situation is Android. And if Android starts to become as draconian as Haze has been writing about well, the MASSES HAVE POWER! When BofA was gonna charge $35 to customers to use their debit cards and when Verizon said it was gonna charge $2 to pay your bill well guess what happened? Huge public outcry and then a 180 degree corporate ABOUT FACE! I think we have only seen the "tip of the iceberg" on this kinda stuff...
I love Apple, really I do but I just do care for the myopic attitude and opposition to outside development. So the future is expensive, closed environment ipads and open environment Android tablets. The real deal for the future is Android and "mobile" mame seems to be hanging in there ok so far, I think.
So mamedevs, forget Apple operating systems and look to the future with Android. Like I said before, power is with the masses, we are starting to see this happen now. All these mobile devices and super fast communications are starting to balance out the corporate draconianism stated by Haze. If things start to go south with mame and Android, it will be time for US to chime in and be heard. When enough people are pissed about something, stuff can get done and like with the Verizon debacle this week, it can happen very, very FAST!
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