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Advice on Buttons
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Dr Zero on January 28, 2011, 03:51:48 pm ---I need to get a set of each to try the ones I have now are a little soft for me, Im trying to find that happy medium. Dont like the obvious click but want some tactile response maybe a stiffer spring in the button vs the switch??
--- End quote ---
A higher force requirement in activating a switch for primary pushbutton controls is almost never a positive thing. If you are a bit heavier handed than some, you are far better off increasing the spring resistance of the button, than by using a switch with a heavier activation requirement.
A heavier activation requirement in a micro, brings with it a very different switch dynamic or "user experience". First of all, it will be louder. Heavier spring tension means a harder snap of the contacts which means a much more pronounced and obvious "clack". Second, there is what I like to call the "drop-out" effect. The way a microswitch works internally is that there is a lever (with one of the contacts at the end) and a spring providing tension on it. When you press down, the resistance will gradually increase as you approach the "snap" point. Once the snap occurs, the resistance virtually disappears, which causes one to "fall through" the travel, going further down with the plunger than one needs to. The switch then needs to move up to a distance higher than the snap point, in order to reset it, so it can snap again. As the "drop-out" effect tends to leave one well below the point of actual activation, it's very difficult to rapidly cycle switches with higher actuation force ratings where this effect is amplified.
Before you possibly waste time and money on heavier switches, simply remove the springs from one of your buttons and give it a small stretch. Do it a little at a time, as it's much easier to increase the length than decrease it! You may find that the little bit of extra resistance you get from doing this will provide the feel you want, without giving you the negative aspects of a harder to actuate microswitch.
RandyT
RandyT:
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 29, 2011, 12:30:58 am ---75g Cherry (the standard switch for years and the weight more standard Happ or IL buttons are sold with)
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I'm not sure where you are getting this info, but it is false. If you are going by the rating of the part they show in the exploded view in their catalog, those specs are not correct, and don't reflect what they have been actually shipping with the buttons. 75g switches are quite hard actuating compared to the Cherry switches that were shipped with standard HAPP buttons for the last ~10 years they used them. There was, in fact, a rash of complaints from users here when HAPP switched to 50g E-Switch switches from the ~35g (actual test measurements) Cherry switches. The general consensus from users here has been that 50g is barely passable for general use, with something lower being much preferred.
I can't say for certain what IL was doing during that time, but lumping those two companies together simply because there was cross-over in their offerings is very misleading. HAPP even supplied their own switches on the IL pushbuttons (and joysticks) they offered, so regardless of what IL was pushing on the Euro market, it wasn't happening at HAPP.
Dr Zero:
--- Quote from: RandyT on January 29, 2011, 01:16:26 am ---
--- Quote from: Dr Zero on January 28, 2011, 03:51:48 pm ---I need to get a set of each to try the ones I have now are a little soft for me, Im trying to find that happy medium. Dont like the obvious click but want some tactile response maybe a stiffer spring in the button vs the switch??
--- End quote ---
Before you possibly waste time and money on heavier switches, simply remove the springs from one of your buttons and give it a small stretch. Do it a little at a time, as it's much easier to increase the length than decrease it! You may find that the little bit of extra resistance you get from doing this will provide the feel you want, without giving you the negative aspects of a harder to actuate microswitch.
RandyT
--- End quote ---
Yeah that is what I was thinking about was to stretch the spring some and see how that does and if still not happy then try the different switch go the cheaper route first LOL
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 29, 2011, 12:30:58 am ---Since this seems to be a big question, I put together a little pack and I'll throw it up on the website soon.
5.50 with shipping(First Class)
1 Happ concave black horizontal microswitch pushbutton and 4 microswitches:
20g Zippy (Switches shown in Project Arcade)
50g Zippy (Switches shown in Project Arcade)
75g Cherry (the standard switch for years and the weight more standard Happ or IL buttons are sold with)
125 gram generic (I would not suggest playing with this, but I have extras so we are throwing it in to give you an idea of what heavy is like)
This way people can, for a low cost, get an idea of what the differences are between different weights and know what weight you are testing. All the name brand micros are coil spring based, and should be similar if not identical to all the major players on the market who have similar micros. If anyone wants priority, it would be 8.50 total.
When the Rollies come in we'll figure out a set to include them also... Game on !
--- End quote ---
Might have to get a set just see what the differences are in person, thanks for taking the time to put this together for us.
armi0024:
Randy is there a particular reason you feel it is appropriate to make these threads negative?
The Happ buttons I have are original Happ from before Happ switched to E-switch.
Next time, before getting negative on the forums, please just pm or email. This negative tone with misinformation does not help the community at all.
I stand by my statements of force and hope the kit might help some people with their decision regardless of who they go with.
--- Quote from: Dr Zero on January 29, 2011, 09:13:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on January 29, 2011, 01:16:26 am ---
--- Quote from: Dr Zero on January 28, 2011, 03:51:48 pm ---I need to get a set of each to try the ones I have now are a little soft for me, Im trying to find that happy medium. Dont like the obvious click but want some tactile response maybe a stiffer spring in the button vs the switch??
--- End quote ---
Before you possibly waste time and money on heavier switches, simply remove the springs from one of your buttons and give it a small stretch. Do it a little at a time, as it's much easier to increase the length than decrease it! You may find that the little bit of extra resistance you get from doing this will provide the feel you want, without giving you the negative aspects of a harder to actuate microswitch.
RandyT
--- End quote ---
Yeah that is what I was thinking about was to stretch the spring some and see how that does and if still not happy then try the different switch go the cheaper route first LOL
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 29, 2011, 12:30:58 am ---Since this seems to be a big question, I put together a little pack and I'll throw it up on the website soon.
5.50 with shipping(First Class)
1 Happ concave black horizontal microswitch pushbutton and 4 microswitches:
20g Zippy (Switches shown in Project Arcade)
50g Zippy (Switches shown in Project Arcade)
75g Cherry (the standard switch for years and the weight more standard Happ or IL buttons are sold with)
125 gram generic (I would not suggest playing with this, but I have extras so we are throwing it in to give you an idea of what heavy is like)
This way people can, for a low cost, get an idea of what the differences are between different weights and know what weight you are testing. All the name brand micros are coil spring based, and should be similar if not identical to all the major players on the market who have similar micros. If anyone wants priority, it would be 8.50 total.
When the Rollies come in we'll figure out a set to include them also... Game on !
--- End quote ---
Might have to get a set just see what the differences are in person, thanks for taking the time to put this together for us.
--- End quote ---
RandyT:
--- Quote from: armi0024 on January 29, 2011, 10:05:59 pm ---Randy is there a particular reason you feel it is appropriate to make these threads negative?
The Happ buttons I have are original Happ from before Happ switched to E-switch.
Next time, before getting negative on the forums, please just pm or email. This negative tone with misinformation does not help the community at all.
I stand by my statements of force and hope the kit might help some people with their decision regardless of who they go with.
--- End quote ---
I'm not entirely sure what you are on about, but there are some basic facts that you have wrong, and that is my only concern. "Who they go with" is irrelevant, but a bit telling about your concerns.
If you have HAPP buttons from before they went to the E-Switches, they are not sporting 75g switches. They would be horrendous to use for any amount of time. A little time reading posts here would make that pretty clear, and it's really not something that requires "trying out" to understand. But I have no problem with those who wish to. Not sure why you would think I did.
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