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the state of mame
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---and it's only the special use cases that suffer.
--- End quote ---
Special cases, as in losing 100% Arcade ACCURACY.
You can write your +3500 words of BS EXCUSES all you want, but it does not add up.
Its a complete contradiction to the purpose of mame, which is to ACCURATELY PRESERVE these machines for future generations.
Yet, without ACCURATE CONTROLS, the game is NEVER Accurate. PERIOD!
Its not accurate in how the game is balanced.
Its not accurate in how the player experiences these games.
Theres no good reason why these emulated machines should not have ability to hook into CORRECT Arcade ACCURATE CONTROLS. The main reason is of course nothing to do with developer ease. Its to due with Care. Devs Dont care about the machines they are preserving... which is why they dont go the full distance and get things 100% CORRECT.
Which again, is why there is a need for Money to pay developers to care, and get things 100% Preserved. Not half A**ed like it is currently.
nitz:
--- Quote from: LeedsFan on December 28, 2010, 05:21:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze on December 28, 2010, 01:59:07 pm --- I'm sure you prefer your Pacman with the kill screen, than if MameDev patched it out ;-)
--- End quote ---
Haha! I remember when Donkey Kong finally got most of it's sounds emulated correctly and didn't need samples.... and people complained that the running sound of Mario sounded wrong. That was because they'd got so used to hearing the sampled sound in Mame for so long that when it was emulated correctly it didn't sound right to them. But I remember playing the game way back in 1982 and I always thought the sampled sound of Mario was too high pitched. In fact you can still hear the old sampled sound on some of the video clips used for frontends... then when the game starts you hear the difference (assuming your Mame is up to date ofc)
--- End quote ---
I have no doubt that the emulated sound in current mame DK is closer to the original than the samples were - but frankly, it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. And it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- whether you're used to the samples or not. It may very well be how a real game sounds, I wouldn't know, but for now I will be using an old mame for this one.
Similar thing with Berzerk. There was a change awhile back that put this whiny sound in the game that I don't like, so I play that on an older mame as well.
If I think about it, there is probably some other stuff in mame that bugs me also, but I've made my point.
HOWEVER in spite of that, I like and respect the devs approach to emulation, and I am all for mame being as accurate as possible! :applaud: If you start making little exceptions for this and little exceptions for that, where does it end? There is always old mame and other emulators if you need them.
Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on December 28, 2010, 08:16:38 pm --- Theres no good reason why these emulated machines should not have ability to hook into CORRECT Arcade ACCURATE CONTROLS. The main reason is of course nothing to do with developer ease. Its to due with Care. Devs Dont care about the machines they are preserving... which is why they dont go the full distance and get things 100% CORRECT.
--- End quote ---
You seem to think you know everything about everything, and why things are done as they are, despite not being involved at all.
You continue to post this same BS all the time, despite being told by developers of the project why things are done as they are.
You continue to only want to believe your own viewpoint, no matter how far from the truth it may be.
As I've said before MAME is open, the code is there, if you have special use cases for the code, it's there for you to use. I don't have a hundred odd novelty controllers to hook up to the PC to do development with, nor does any other developer. It *is* about developer, and general purpose user ease. People have to be able to use MAME to test it, so that bug reports can be given, and actual emulation of the hardware improved.
This is the truth, regardless of if you want to believe it or not. Compromises are made for the benefit of the development and accessibility of the project only. This has been the case for over 10 years.
Haze:
--- Quote from: nitz on December 28, 2010, 08:18:47 pm ---
--- Quote from: LeedsFan on December 28, 2010, 05:21:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Haze on December 28, 2010, 01:59:07 pm --- I'm sure you prefer your Pacman with the kill screen, than if MameDev patched it out ;-)
--- End quote ---
Haha! I remember when Donkey Kong finally got most of it's sounds emulated correctly and didn't need samples.... and people complained that the running sound of Mario sounded wrong. That was because they'd got so used to hearing the sampled sound in Mame for so long that when it was emulated correctly it didn't sound right to them. But I remember playing the game way back in 1982 and I always thought the sampled sound of Mario was too high pitched. In fact you can still hear the old sampled sound on some of the video clips used for frontends... then when the game starts you hear the difference (assuming your Mame is up to date ofc)
--- End quote ---
I have no doubt that the emulated sound in current mame DK is closer to the original than the samples were - but frankly, it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. And it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- whether you're used to the samples or not. It may very well be how a real game sounds, I wouldn't know, but for now I will be using an old mame for this one.
Similar thing with Berzerk. There was a change awhile back that put this whiny sound in the game that I don't like, so I play that on an older mame as well.
If I think about it, there is probably some other stuff in mame that bugs me also, but I've made my point.
HOWEVER in spite of that, I like and respect the devs approach to emulation, and I am all for mame being as accurate as possible! :applaud: If you start making little exceptions for this and little exceptions for that, where does it end? There is always old mame and other emulators if you need them.
--- End quote ---
For DK It probably doesn't sound perfect yet, I think even Derrick recognizes that, in some ways it does offer a better, more realistic sound but there are still problems with it sounding too muffled. Most samples have been post-processed and enhanced tho, so it's never going to sound exactly like them, and due to the nature of these circuits you're probably never even going to find 2 boards that sound quite the same. It's a complex challenge to get it right, but MAME is always kept up to date with the latest findings, it will get there eventually. Again it's an area only one dev really understands, one on which it's very easy to get burnout from working on it, and one where there are countless games which need attention.
Berzerk on the other hand sounds close to perfect to me.
To give you some perspective, this is why emulating the older discrete games is an insane challenge; the sound systems on these things are just a couple of circuits designed to play sounds. Even a simple game like pong is 10x more complex. Something like Monaco GP is absolute madness.
EwJ:
--- Quote from: nitz on December 28, 2010, 08:18:47 pm ---I have no doubt that the emulated sound in current mame DK is closer to the original than the samples were - but frankly, it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. And it sounds like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- whether you're used to the samples or not. It may very well be how a real game sounds, I wouldn't know, but for now I will be using an old mame for this one.
--- End quote ---
IIRC DK sounded like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- in every arcade I saw it in many moons ago. If you are finding, in MAME, that DK sounds all garbled, tinny, slightly delayed, and as if you're barely hearing it through static and what seems like the death croaks of a dozen frogs in a blender, it is likely far closer to original than you might suspect. Enjoy it! Revel in it! This is arcade history and you are experiencing it just as if you dropped a quarter into it in an 80's arcade.
--- Quote ---If I think about it, there is probably some other stuff in mame that bugs me also, but I've made my point.
--- End quote ---
What's your point?
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