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the state of mame

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abaraba:

--- Quote from: RandyT ---There is no PC analog for this control, in its original form.  It's not a mouse, but a superset of a mouse.  It's a mouse+, with the + being something that cannot be achieved with common PC analogs.

--- End quote ---

It's translates to plain PC mouse just as arcade trackball, only difference is that one of the wheels has only two holes, but code only needs to forward the same type of data to virtual PCB pins as if it was trackball game, then the emulated game code itself does everything else.



--- Quote from: RandyT ---So the current control scheme, via the translation layer, is assigned to the common PC controls that will actually allow one to test/play the game, without the magic original control.  You are clamoring for an option to essentially hack in support for something...

--- End quote ---

It's all already there, it all works just fine.

RandyT:

--- Quote from: abaraba on January 12, 2011, 07:27:42 pm ---It's translates to plain PC mouse just as arcade trackball, only difference is that one of the wheels has only two holes, but code only needs to forward the same type of data to virtual PCB pins as if it was trackball game, then the emulated game code itself does everything else.

--- End quote ---

But the point is that you could not possibly use a trackball or mouse (common PC analogs) to properly control the game with this active. On-screen action would be absolutely haywire.  But I do see a point in suggesting that the index wheel be mapped to the Y-Axis and allowing the user to unmap that axis if they can't use it.  But again, if the devs don't want it implemented in that form, there's little one can do but to accept it or modify it as a custom build.  Or, do it in such a way that they find the change acceptable for inclusion.


--- Quote ---It's all already there, it all works just fine.

--- End quote ---

That would be seriously funny if true.  But I'm guessing it's not, based on the feedback about the issue in this thread.

abaraba:

--- Quote from: RandyT on January 12, 2011, 07:47:59 pm ---That would be seriously funny if true.  But I'm guessing it's not, based on the feedback about the issue in this thread.

--- End quote ---

[DELETED]

I was wrong about these, this is the truth:
- it does not work properly with MAME, I was fooled by analog hack
- it never worked properly with both encoders in any version of MAME

Sorry for confusion, mouse hack + laptop trackpad indeed can produce illusion that it works. I now got ball-mouse to test axes separately and precisely, and also PS2 analog pad to test 'analog hack' too.

Anyway, I got it working, more about it in the other thread about 720.

Can support for authentic controller and analog hack exist together? Of course they can!



--- Quote ---But the point is that you could not possibly use a trackball or mouse (common PC analogs) to properly control the game with this active. On-screen action would be absolutely haywire.

--- End quote ---

I see you are suggesting input devices would "interfere" with each other, but I do not see why, especially if you do not have analog joysticks plugged in at all?

What mouse handling routine has to do with analog stick or keyboard handling routine? No keyboard hack interferes with any of the original inputs in any other game. Mouse hack to control Star Wars has nothing to with proper data forwarding taking place when input is handled via analog input handling code.



--- Quote ---But I do see a point in suggesting that the index wheel be mapped to the Y-Axis and allowing the user to unmap that axis if they can't use it. But again, if the devs don't want it implemented in that form, there's little one can do but to accept it or modify it as a custom build.

--- End quote ---

They kind of went from "we don't care to work on it", to "we do not want changes" accompanied with no good reason, but assumption that my changes would do "something bad" to the rest of the code.

Xiaou2:

--- Quote ---at the expense of convoluting the code and making it less manageable.
--- End quote ---

 Everyone knows this is an Excuse.  And not a good one at that.  I find it hard to believe a man of your intelligence would buy into it.  Or maybe your just stroking egos here. Trust me, it does not work with these guys.  It only makes them feel more "Right" in their messed up beliefs...   

 Like how Haze thinks that Ports of the originals are better... yet when doing 10 seconds of research on something like Marble Madness Ports without a Trackball... will yield tons of comments saying that the port SUCKS compared to the real deal.  And how in less than 60 seconds, I was able to find several pages and quotes about how ports and mames 720 driver, are not even close to being playable compared to the real machine.

 The reason why Haze thinks ports are better, is because hes Ignorant... and is a person who does not enjoy nor can handle a physical / game challenge.  This means that hacks which make a game easier, such as faster speed on the Ball in Marble Madness, or getting 2 rotations for one spin on a port of 720... are considered Better to him.  Yet everyone else who wants / likes / expects a challenge when playing... has to suffer, because of his ignorance in butchering the original coders long and hard work of making challenging gameplay.


--- Quote --- I personally think they should map the index pulse to a digital input and call it a day, and have suggested it in the past.  But they consider that a "hack"
--- End quote ---

 So, its OK to completely wipe out the original controller with a Hack, but not ok to add a tiny hack to allow calibration?   Thats beyond intelligence.  That has to do with Personal Ego minded reasons.  Much like everything discussed... its not a matter of challenge or accuracy.  Its a matter of Personal Opinions... which is very sad indeed...  and does not represent a positive position on Preservation, or the Team at all.


--- Quote --- You shouldn't be surprised when anything other than that is called out for what it is.  At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if your relentless hammering on them has kept something like what I suggested from being added, just to keep you miserable.
--- End quote ---

 Firstly, we know thats untrue, because you suggested it before my hammering and was denied.

 But, actually, thats exactly the point.  The Devs are preserving and hacking based on Personal opinions.  Many of them have Never once played a real machine, and do not fully value these creations... hence such decisions.  Giles stood there at CAX preaching to a room full of classic fans that DO appreciate the games in their entirety... about what?  About how to run a project the way you want to run a project!  Basically slapping all those peoples faces for caring about how a game like 720 should be controlled, or how Spy Hunter should have a shifter... or how TX-1 should have 4 channel sound...etc.   Completely Clueless?  Or just being a D***?
Or both?

 Is it because he does not have a 2nd sound card?  Needs some more speakers? We can get them.  No?  Ahh, I know... Its cause he does not give a ratts butt.

 Which is why Mame needs someone who Does care about these games in Full, not in PARTS via "Opinion"... and or needs someone who will accept money to get these Important things Into official builds. 

 Everyone knows that Stand-Alone branches are Impossible to maintain to the ever changing current code base. Which is pretty much another reason why Devs suggest it... cause they know its futile.  Once the changes are in... it wont take much to maintain them officially... just like every other control / interface that already works and is maintained just fine to date. (including the gross hacks mame has decided to institute already)

 Its painfully Obvious that the new gen programmers just dont get it.
If only we could find some Old Skoolers to show them up...

ErikRuud:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on January 12, 2011, 11:14:35 pm ---
 Its painfully Obvious that the new gen programmers just dont get it.
If only we could find some Old Skoolers to show them up...


--- End quote ---

According to you we are too anti-social to be worth anything.


--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on January 04, 2011, 07:28:30 pm ---Funny, cause Ive met more Punk Elitist Programmers/Techies with Poor attitudes, Anger/Temper Issues, Arrogant, Self Absorbed, etc.. than the typical EndUser/Collector/Gameplayer.   Ahh, but generalizations are great arnt they?

 Generally speaking, Programmers/Techs have poor social skills. (which is why they enjoy talking to a computer for Hours instead of real people) They dont get along too well with others, and many times have no patience for people they feel are beneath them. (people who cant do what they do - but "SHOULD" be able to  /sarcasm  :P  . . . )

--- End quote ---

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