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A word about LEDBlinky…

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Beretta:
i apologize for the misunderstanding.

still some of my post relates to what others have said in the thread

HaRuMaN:
I need no encouragement, I can be quite silly with no external help.   :woot

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Hoopz on May 12, 2010, 02:10:36 pm ---I'm not confused.  You said that many of us wouldn't be happy paying $20 more for your hardware (Led-Wiz).  I'm saying I would if it was packaged with software that was more functional than what I got 3 years ago.  To me, the software increases the value of the hardware by more than $20.  Was I unhappy that I bought hardware and the software to run it was very basic? No.  I wasn't thrilled with the idea that you turned the software development over to the community to handle for you (generalization).  But they produced a product that greatly enhanced your hardware.  Do I think it's now worth $20?  Yes.  Don't for a second think that the software hasn't affected your bottom line.  You definitely have benefited because of what they've done.  

--- End quote ---

Then pay the author the $20 :). Why do you think this involves GGG in any way?  This is the confusion I am referring to.  Everything in this hobby has come about in a very evolutionary way.  Without the LED-Wiz, and the market it developed virtually on it's own, there would not have been copycat products nor the need for anyone here to develop any software at all.  And now suddenly people want to look at me as though I am taking advantage of someone because they wrote a piece of software I didn't ask them to write?

I don't know what some of you are smoking, but I definitely don't want any of it :).


--- Quote ---Bottom line is I'm happy to pay for the increased functionality to the hardware.  Your references to other hardware products aren't accurate.  Buying a router is buying a router (again, a generalization).  However, buying a router and then installing Tomato or other software that greatly increases what it can do is a much different scenario.

--- End quote ---

No, actually they are.  My two biggest customers to date for this hardware have absolutely no use for LEDBlinky, or MikeQ's DLL, and that is a fact.  The LED-Wiz and LED-Wiz+GP are very capable Output and I/O controllers respectively, and have broad and far reaching applications beyond the arcade controls community.  They also have some pretty neat features built in, programmed by yours truly over the course of months, which allow this community to develop the software that does what it does.  But it isn't just a board that lets you light up the controls you use in a game, any more than a cable modem is just a box that lets you check your email.

RandyT

Hoopz:

--- Quote from: RandyT on May 12, 2010, 02:42:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: Hoopz on May 12, 2010, 02:10:36 pm ---I'm not confused.  You said that many of us wouldn't be happy paying $20 more for your hardware (Led-Wiz).  I'm saying I would if it was packaged with software that was more functional than what I got 3 years ago.  To me, the software increases the value of the hardware by more than $20.  Was I unhappy that I bought hardware and the software to run it was very basic? No.  I wasn't thrilled with the idea that you turned the software development over to the community to handle for you (generalization).  But they produced a product that greatly enhanced your hardware.  Do I think it's now worth $20?  Yes.  Don't for a second think that the software hasn't affected your bottom line.  You definitely have benefited because of what they've done.  

--- End quote ---

Then pay the author the $20 :). Why do you think this involves GGG in any way?  This is the confusion I am referring to.  Everything in this hobby has come about in a very evolutionary way.  Without the LED-Wiz, and the market it developed virtually on it's own, there would not have been copycat products nor the need for anyone here to develop any software at all.  And now suddenly people want to look at me as though I am taking advantage of someone because they wrote a piece of software I didn't ask them to write?

I don't know what some of you are smoking, but I definitely don't want any of it :).


--- Quote ---Bottom line is I'm happy to pay for the increased functionality to the hardware.  Your references to other hardware products aren't accurate.  Buying a router is buying a router (again, a generalization).  However, buying a router and then installing Tomato or other software that greatly increases what it can do is a much different scenario.

--- End quote ---

No, actually they are.  My two biggest customers to date for this hardware have absolutely no use for LEDBlinky, or MikeQ's DLL, and that is a fact.  The LED-Wiz and LED-Wiz+GP are very capable Output and I/O controllers respectively, and have broad and far reaching applications beyond the arcade controls community.  They also have some pretty neat features built in, programmed by yours truly over the course of months, which allow this community to develop the software that does what it does.  But it isn't just a board that lets you light up the controls you use in a game, any more than a cable modem is just a box that lets you check your email.

RandyT

--- End quote ---
I didn't say this involves you.  I simply pointed out that, to me, that I would pay $20 more for the hardware if it came packaged with this software or the equivalent.  Since it didn't and doesn't, I was merely sharing my opinion that if it did, I would pay for it.  I believe that's germane to the topic as someone else mentioned broached that topic.

I don't think your two biggest customers are relevant in this discussion.  They don't use the hardware in the same capacity that we do.  Obviously, it's apples to oranges.  My point about the router/tomato is that a third party developed an application that went beyond what the developer did.  I don't have anecdotal evidence to support my idea that third party software that is specially designed for such products enhances the relative value of the product and adds to the sales.  But I don't think any one can dispute that having an outstanding and high quality piece of software does, in fact, add value to the hardware.  I'm not saying you supported it, asked for it, or _______.  It's simply an opinion that I think has a basis in fact.


--- Quote from: Beretta on May 12, 2010, 02:37:42 pm ---i apologize for the misunderstanding.

still some of my post relates to what others have said in the thread

--- End quote ---
No need to apologize.  And I could see that you were responding to others.  Thanks for not getting worked up about the Ummon comment.  It was meant as a joke.   :)

EDIT:   RandyT said $30, I thought someone said $20.  I'd pay $30 (Arzoo, don't get mad if I send just $20!  :lol ).

kronic24601:
One of the things that has seriously frustrated me as a newer member to the Mame community has been all the dropped support on misc software, services, or even hardware development. Often times members create some new thing that is helpful for a time, then as things get busy, they sort of just drop the project... thus making it irrelevant. Vendors go out of business, and others stop being able to provide cool services. This is will ALWAYS be the case when it comes to free stuff or even low margin products/services/software.

There are so many awesome developers that worked on their misc projects because it was their hobby and it was fun. Yes, extremely time intensive ... but they didn't do it for the money. Even if there was money involved I can't imagine it was worth what they could make on other projects.

I've never even used LEDBlinky but I paid the $20 right away. Why? Because if that's what it will take to keep Arzoo supporting the software than so BE it! I'm in full support, just stay involved ... please for the love of God ... don't go! It's the same reason I pay for FTP access and cool transitions for Hyperspin. I want the project to keep evolving.

As for the other issue, without knowing the full back story to all the vendor vs. developer drama, what I do know is this. Andy and Randy although do compete on many levels in the hardware biz (and I'm sure things can get heated at times), they BOTH provide a very useful service to this community. I for one have bought many things from both of them (to spread the love  ;) ). The reality is though even though I end up spending a ton of cash, for these short run, small quantity kind of orders I cannot imagine they (either) are raking in tons of cash. If either one would decide to close up shop I can guarantee that the entire arcade community would feel the effects.

My two cents? Randy (or any vendor) is probably just doing what he can to keep a business running, clearly any additional cost he pays to support other software developers (which is an option) would come as a cost passed on directly to the buyers. The real question then becomes, can it still be sold for the quantity that makes any of this nearly worthwhile? Maybe the answer is no ... I'm not sure, but it is a realistic business consideration. Bottom line is that any Vendor needs to make a profit and at the same time be able to offer a quality product to a community for a reasonable price ... that's business.

However, all that being said, perhaps there is an opportunity for (in this case I'll pick on Randy) to lump in a limited version on LEDBlinky with the LED-Wiz, charge an extra $5 (just picking a number here, deal would have to be worked out with Arzoo) ... the idea would be that since Arzoo will get $5 on every LED-WIZ, it would be about the same as the $20 every 1-in-4 people will pay?? Just a thought though... once again, it's a business strategy that both parties would need to like, and would be beneficial to both. ... but now I'm just rambling.

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