Demo Man Cryoclaw Issues

[Flake]

My Demo Man cyroclaw is acting up.  It has ever since I've bought it.  The guy I bought it from has been super about trying to get it to work but I think he's at his wit's end with the machine and is just going to take it back and refund my cash.  I dont want to give it back so I was hoping beyond hope someone might have some insight to my problem. 

In test mode, everything works, the claw moves left to right, the elevator goes up and down and the auto run sequence picks up the ball and drops it down a ramp.  The problem is during game play, when the ball travels up to the elevator nothing happens.  The pin then goes into a ball search mode because there's no activity - sometimes this actually triggers the claw to move to go pick up the ball and drop it down the left most ramp, just like it does during the auto run sequence. 

At one point the guy even took the machine back to his shop and fixed it to where everything worked, he brings it to my house, it works for a couple series and then dies again.  He has basically rebuilt the elevator and claw and cleaned up the optos (not that I really know what optos are) but when it gets to my house, it dies.  Does there exist a possibility that my electrical outlet is bad or something?  I have my smartstrip (which my mame is plugged into) plugged into the same outlet but I've never had the mame cabinet turned on when first setting up the pin.

Anyone have any experience with this pin?  I know I've read that cryoclaws can be problematic.

I'm having a blast playing this machine and I really dont want to give it back.  The guy's done so much work to this machine I cant believe it isnt a simple fix.  I'm thinking about just keeping the machine and hoping that eventually I can learn enough about it to figure it out on my own.  Pinball machines are exactly jumping off trees around here lately unless you want some crap ass 1978-1982 gottlieb for $1000 off CL (no offense intended for those of you who like older machines).  The SuperAuction here last weekend was an utter disaster.

[Flake]

So what exactly is an "opto" anyway?  To me they just look like little circuit boards.  Why the name "opto" - which I assume is short for something else? 

Reflow the solder - I assume this means resolder?  Are you recommending taking off the existing solder or just soldering over the existing solder points?

Sorry but the term "complete noob" takes on new meaning with me and pinball.  But I'm a not incapable of learning and certainly the desire is there.  Everyone starts somewhere I suppose.

[shardian]

Optical switch. The ball breaks a path of light, thus triggering a 'switch' without ever touching anything.

Same things in a ball style mouse.

http://www.pinrepair.com/wpc/index3.htm#opto

[Flake]

One other thing I forgot to mention, when you start up the game, and view the test report there are several "check switch" errors - all of which seem to be claw switches.  So how do you check switches?

[Flake]

Shardian - thanks for the link.  Very informative.

[pinballwizard79]

Thats a bummer Flake.

I wish there was something I could do to help man but IMHO if "the guy" fixing your machine is at his limit of patience maybe a refund is the safest route for you.

Then again you are right, machines are not flying out the door at cheap prices (much less loaded with LED's & somehow including return policies & pretty much accidentally free house calls:-)................Thats not something you will find anywhere else that's for sure.

I dont know much but maybe there is some kind of optical board at fault which these optical switches go to prior to the CPU, sound, light & etc boards?

That sounds like a semi costly but quick fix..........maybe the guy has identical boards from the same machine to temporarily swap with yours to see if thats the issue??

Either way for some reason problems & pinballs travel together.

[Flake]

Well "the guy" I think has swapped out boards as part of his trouble-shooting procedures so I dont believe thats the issue either.

I'm not certain yet but I really am leaning towards just keeping it.  The game is actually still fun to play with the claw turned off.  I suppose I could keep it turned off while trouble shooting the claw problem......my initiation ceremony into pinball if you will. 

One nice thing is, it seems to be such a common problem there is lots of lots of threads on RGP about it.  Maybe something there will help as well as the info posted here.  I have already gathered quite of bit of information that has given me what is sure to be a wildly misplaced sense of self-confidence in my ability to eventually fix the problem.

[Flake]

One more tidbit - upon game start, the elevator is supposed to go up and down and the claw is supposed to cycle right and then left.  This isnt happening so even at the start of game play prior to any ball launch an issue exist.  The guy has rebuilt a new elevator from other demo man parts and has cleaned the optos.  Also instead of reflowing the solder points he pigtailed the wires directly to the opto board.  This "fixed" the problem up until the point he brought it to my house then it craps out after two games.  The seller is of the opinion that if the elevator doesnt cycle up and down upon game start the claw wont work from that point on.

So is the opto bad?  If so how expensive is this to replace?

[Flake]

Well my lame ass opinion is that something actually wrong with the claw itself, not the elevator.  Upon game start up the claw should cycle right, elevator pops up, then the claw should cycle left.  Upon start up the claw nudges right a very short distance but then stops.  So it never makes it to the elevator and from that point on the claw doesnt work in the game.  If, upon start up, the claw does a complete cycle like it should, then the claw works for one time then goes back to its problem.

So this leads me to believe (based on reading posts about this at RGP) that the optos under the claw itself either need cleaned or replaced.  The problem with this is to access these optos you apparently have to remove all the ramps.  I found a decent DM shop guide on RGP that outlines the ramp removal steps........but who knows if I'm up to the task.....

This has to be the problem, the seller has completely rebuilt the elevator and based on what is happening, it seems to be something wrong with the claw itself.

PBJ - I understand what your saying and I think this is something I could do.  I did a switch edge test last night on the opto by the elevator and it works and I even cleaned it with a windexed Q-tip.  That opto seems to be working just fine.  So it has to be an opto in the claw right??  right?? 

[pinballwizard79]

One day the dino on my Jurassic Park started missing the ball. Turns out it wasnt the up/down motor, the jaw or the entire dino at all.

It was the left/right motor, well the gears to be exact.

Over time the gears wore & became sloppy & when a moving pinball toy has just an inch of slack that can cause problems for working with a ball of the same size equal to its margin of error.

So long story short...................if there are gears maybe they are stripped?

Then again was that something you said was rebuilt?

BTW this is a weird problem indeed.

[Flake]

One day the dino on my Jurassic Park started missing the ball. Turns out it wasnt the up/down motor, the jaw or the entire dino at all.

It was the left/right motor, well the gears to be exact.

Over time the gears wore & became sloppy & when a moving pinball toy has just an inch of slack that can cause problems for working with a ball of the same size equal to its margin of error.

So long story short...................if there are gears maybe they are stripped?

Then again was that something you said was rebuilt?

BTW this is a weird problem indeed.

I've thought of this but if this were the case wouldnt it NOT work during test mode?  I can move the claw back and forth all day long while in claw test mode.

[pinballwizard79]

---steaming pile of meadow muffin---

You are right if this works in test mode why the hell wouldnt it work in gameplay?

Damn you braddock!!!!!!! (chuck norris reference in case you didnt know)

I saw the posts on rec & read about reseating the socketed chips, replacing the optos, wires to the optos & etc.........

Did you talk to the seller about these possibilities?

[Flake]

So last night I go into claw test mode and now the claw DOESNT move seamlessly back and forth.  It only nudges right and left little bits at a time.  The box that indicates the activated switch on the DMD doesnt stay X'd out either after the claw stops.  I can continue to nudge it right/left if I continue to press on enter.  So this has to be an opto problem right? 

I also checked all the connections behind the backglass and it would seem to me everything has a strong connection.

[Karetaker]

Boy does this bring back memories. I've seen this problem more than once on these games. I was banging my head against the wall because it just didn't make any sense. The problem turned out to be the plug going into the lower left hand corner of the driver board. It powers the claw. I can't remember which one it is off the top of my head so refer to the manual. Change the pins in that plug and the header pins on the board. That cured my problem and the symptoms you are saying are identical! Change it to at least rule it out but I'll bet that will fix it for you.

[Flake]

Well I unplugged/replugged those plus you mentioned and the claw actually worked for one time then it stopped again.  It went back to its usual self, nudging a bit to the right then stopping never to work again in a game.  It tests out fine - although during the test immediately after the error it actually went too far left at first and an out of range error occured.  First time thats happened.  However, it went back to testing normal after running the manual's fix for an out of range message.

So how the hell do you replace plugs and header pins? 

[Karetaker]

You can start with just the plug. You need a pair of Molex crimpers and straight pins. I would try doing the plug first and see if that cures it. Here is just about everything you could ever want to know about molex crimping:

http://marvin3m.com/connect/index.htm