Favorite Front End

[billpa]

Sorry Hoopz...but I have to politely disagree.  This is not bickering on my part. Yes, this might not be the place to vent my frustration but it is only fueled by numerous posts touting Atomic FE being able to look like HyperSpin via their cleverly named "HyperSkin".

Frankly, I don't care what FE people use or how many people use "X" Front End (not knocking this thread, just mean I am not here to push one FE over another).  I do care about someone not only blatantly stealing work from others, but also re-packaging it in the same manner.  Here is just one of many examples, a side by side comparison of the download areas for both sites. You wouldn't even be able to tell which one is which if I didn't label them.



The fact is youki, you come to the HS site and you download the themes and then use the files for your own front end.  You do not try to hide it.  In fact it is one of your selling points for Atomic FE...boasting how you can get the same look as HS, although not even close to the same performance or design.  Your argument that we get these images off the web (so we are stealing) is weak at best.  I would say 80-90% of all of the images we use are taken from joymonkey's art site...a site that you cannot download from unless you donate.  There are at least a few dozen members that specifically donate to joymonkey's site just so they can use his high quality artwork.  But it doesn't end there.  Because each of those images needs to be cut out in Photoshop, which takes a lot of time.  Then everything needs to be laid out, animated, etc. which takes even more time.  There are tons of games that do not have suitable artwork...the resolution is too low.  So our members retrace the artwork in Illustrator/Inkscape/Corel Draw.  This takes loads of time!

Then there are games that do not have any real type of artwork besides a logo...and our members actually create original artwork inspired by the game.  Many of the background images are original designs as well as other artwork in some themes.  You absolutely have no right to take any original work without the permission of the creator.  Do you understand that there is original artwork in those themes you are stealing youki?

It's not even like you tried to get permission.  You were pretty straightforward about taking the art once it was available and you are quick to dismiss all of the hard work that went into it.  Honestly I might not be as pissed as I am if I didn't check out your "HyperSkin" layouts page and see that it is an exact duplicate of the HS themes download section.  Probably the only thing that surprised me is that you leave a line next to each of your layouts stating it was "based on the work of".  Like anyone visiting your site would know that this actually means you downloaded a theme made by a HS member, extracted the artwork, laid it out identical to that them and repackaged it as your own.  Even your starter MAME pack is almost identical to the starter pack HS released.

I don't code.  I don't know anything about creating a program.  The only skill I have to contribute is artwork.  There are a lot of people like me in the HS community and we pride ourselves on creating great artwork with high standards.  To see all of that taken without any disregard is quite disappointing and definitely speaks volume of your character youki.

Sorry...this is my last post here.  I am fed up.  If youki wants to take the argument to PM, so be it.

[Ginsu Victim]

I skipped reading all that and translated it as:

WAH! 

[Hoopz]

Billpa,

I appreciate your perspective and your post does speak volumes about the situation.  All I would ask is that anyone who wish to discuss this move it from this thread into a thread devoted solely to that topic.

I can see both sides and empathize with both parties.  My preference is that this thread not turn into a bickering contest that's happened so often in the past on these boards.   I would like to keep this thread as focused on the topic if at all possible.  The posts about Maximo G+ not withstanding...

I can see that you're frustrated and hope you continue to help with Hyperspin because of your obvious talent. 

I appreciate everyone's help here.

Ginsu: not helpful.....

Thanks,
Jeff

[Ginsu Victim]

Ginsu: not helpful.....

Billpa found it funny.

I was trying to diffuse the situation with humor instead of letting it turn into a flame war in this thread (exactly what you'd hoped to avoid).

I wasn't fueling it. (Come on, Jeff, you know we've both fanned the flames before, but this wasn't one of those times...)

[youki]

Please Billpa don't insult me. you don't know me.  We are talking about hobbies not Business here. keep it friendly.

I have alway credited sincerely the fantastic job that HS layout creator did in matter of Artwork.

My "selling" point (selling is funny, because Atomic is totally free, and i even don't force the user to be registered or what ever else to download something)  as you say ,is just :
 
"If you like hyperspin look but don't have a enough powered machine , Atomic is a good alternative". 

Where Hyperspin needs a 3ghz machine with 1 giga or more ram and accelerated graphics card ,   Atomic needs a  celeron 800mhz with 256 mega of ram and a standard VGA card. (so don't talk me about hyperspin performances).   

I don't try to compete with Hyperspin (anyway i could not, no time for that), i just propose an alternative usable on low end machine. That's all.

Hyperspin is a very nice looking FrontEnd , the layout are really fantastic ,  And if you have a high end machine you should use it. I don't pretend my Atomic is better or even try to compete.  At least on graphic aspect.   It is lot of harder to make an animated layout for Atomic than it is for HS.

and last point, The layouts you can see have been done (or ported from HS (and it ask lot of work , just try you will see...) by AtomicFE community not by me  (i made about 40 i think   on the 600 or more available).

Did you care about the author of the original artwork you ripped? Do you  have the feeling you stoled their work?

Now, if there is legal issue  on layout i made myself . You can prove you have some copyright on artwork. I will change them no problem.

and speaking about my website what duplicate HS Download Section  , you didn't noticed it is not my website. i didn't made this website and it is even not hosted by me.  If you want see my web page for the layout download it is here :

http://www.atomicfe.com/Downloads/Layouts_in_progress/download_layout.php

And i insist : All Artwork have been reworked for AtomicFe , and not take as is.  i repeat : just try to port one of your layout on AtomicFE and you will see the amount of work. And you will see that what you need to do , is the exact same thing you did from the orignal Artwork you reworked.

Anyway i understand your "frustration" ,  i had the same feeling what i saw everybody say "waooouh" when they first seen Hyperspin whereas AtomicFe offered the same possibilities (except the spin) since years.   Hyperspin marketting is lot better than mine!      

I'm not in business , i just propose a FrontEnd for Free and Really for Free .  If you like it i'm happy  , if you don't like it I understand.  Now there is a good choice of very great front end. The Time of pionner is finished.
The only think i wish is that  some great front end stay Free.



Ok, now if you have issue with my post , please PM me.   Sorry to have post here, i didn't want answer. But I wanted to clarify things for all other.

[Silas (son of Silas)]

Getting back to the original thread...

W00T!!!! Wah!cade has a 'MASSIVE' 0.6% of the votes... other than me who were the other 2 Linux users out there who use it?

I feel a steady uprising in our midst........ or maybe not 

[Avinitlarge]

Im using Maximus Arcade. Fair enough, You have to pay but I think its worth it. Its easy to setup, Easy to use. I cant fault it to be honest. The support could be a little better though.

[Ummon]

Getting back to the original thread...

W00T!!!! Wah!cade has a 'MASSIVE' 0.6% of the votes... other than me who were the other 2 Linux users out there who use it?

I feel a steady uprising in our midst........ or maybe not 

Perhaps there should've been platform-dependent threads.

Im using Maximus Arcade. Fair enough, You have to pay but I think its worth it. Its easy to setup, Easy to use. I cant fault it to be honest. The support could be a little better though.

Yeah. Curious thing that the majority of support for such a 'paid-for' product has always been from the users.....

[Avinitlarge]

The support could be a little better though.

Actually, I'll rephrase that. The support is more of less non existant

[abispac]

If atomic fe its sucha great FE for his creator, why trying to make it look like hyperspin? bad bad bad.......   be original.....

[Ginsu Victim]

If atomic fe its sucha great FE for his creator, why trying to make it look like hyperspin? bad bad bad.......  be original.....

Because it can look similar to Hyperspin, though running on lower specs. It's not the default look of AtomicFE anyway, but it is an option for those who don't have a fast PC in their cabinet.

[headkaze]

Because it can look similar to Hyperspin, though running on lower specs. It's not the default look of AtomicFE anyway, but it is an option for those who don't have a super fast PC in their cabinet.

I didn't realise HyperSpin needed a super fast PC to run it? I remember running it through Remote Desktop and it ran at a fairly decent framerate, so as far as I could tell it didn't even need a fast video card.

[brian_hoffman]

Yea, I guess it depends on your vision of superfast, HS should be used on a 2.0 dual core for best perormance,
Although I have it running pretty well on a little ATOM 1.6 like what you see in most netbooks ok.

If you are using a PIII 600 using dosmame and expect to run HS you are not going to have much luck.

[Ginsu Victim]

"Super fast" was the wrong thing to say.

I meant that there are people who use computers that are lower than 1 Ghz in their MAME cabs. I wasn't trying to say you have to have a top of the line PC to run Hyperspin, but there are some people who want that look, but didn't have an option until AtomicFE offered one.

[Ummon]

And, the layouts are totally different (which I'm getting from youki's comments are not simple code translations or something, but manully done). It's mainly the background art that's the same.

[CadeFreak]

Looks like a fight between Atomic Fe and Hyperspin! Finish him!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SlayerAlex]

I skipped reading all that and translated it as:

WAH! 

same here. In the end though i do like Hyperspin nbetter.

[Ryglore]

After working with it for the past month and fine tuning it. I must say, I love MaLa.

[CadeFreak]

Please Billpa don't insult me. you don't know me.  We are talking about hobbies not Business here. keep it friendly.

I have alway credited sincerely the fantastic job that HS layout creator did in matter of Artwork.

My "selling" point (selling is funny, because Atomic is totally free, and i even don't force the user to be registered or what ever else to download something)  as you say ,is just :
 
"If you like hyperspin look but don't have a enough powered machine , Atomic is a good alternative". 

Where Hyperspin needs a 3ghz machine with 1 giga or more ram and accelerated graphics card ,   Atomic needs a  celeron 800mhz with 256 mega of ram and a standard VGA card. (so don't talk me about hyperspin performances).   

I don't try to compete with Hyperspin (anyway i could not, no time for that), i just propose an alternative usable on low end machine. That's all.

Hyperspin is a very nice looking FrontEnd , the layout are really fantastic ,  And if you have a high end machine you should use it. I don't pretend my Atomic is better or even try to compete.  At least on graphic aspect.   It is lot of harder to make an animated layout for Atomic than it is for HS.

and last point, The layouts you can see have been done (or ported from HS (and it ask lot of work , just try you will see...) by AtomicFE community not by me  (i made about 40 i think   on the 600 or more available).

Did you care about the author of the original artwork you ripped? Do you  have the feeling you stoled their work?

Now, if there is legal issue  on layout i made myself . You can prove you have some copyright on artwork. I will change them no problem.

and speaking about my website what duplicate HS Download Section  , you didn't noticed it is not my website. i didn't made this website and it is even not hosted by me.  If you want see my web page for the layout download it is here :

http://www.atomicfe.com/Downloads/Layouts_in_progress/download_layout.php

And i insist : All Artwork have been reworked for AtomicFe , and not take as is.  i repeat : just try to port one of your layout on AtomicFE and you will see the amount of work. And you will see that what you need to do , is the exact same thing you did from the orignal Artwork you reworked.

Anyway i understand your "frustration" ,  i had the same feeling what i saw everybody say "waooouh" when they first seen Hyperspin whereas AtomicFe offered the same possibilities (except the spin) since years.   Hyperspin marketting is lot better than mine!      

I'm not in business , i just propose a FrontEnd for Free and Really for Free .  If you like it i'm happy  , if you don't like it I understand.  Now there is a good choice of very great front end. The Time of pionner is finished.
The only think i wish is that  some great front end stay Free.

That's why i voted for atomic fe!  youki has done so much for the front end industry! As soon as i clear my credit card debt I'm planning on donating some cash via the atomic fe website!  Atomic Fe is wicked! Really easy to work with also!  especially the scrolling street fighter menu (scrolling) found this video on you tube of it!

Mame frontend

Would love to see something like this just mortal kombat i don't have the skill for that tho!

[Antropus]

Hmmm, I don't know but I find those HS and AtomicFE themes EXTREMELY busy and not pleasant to the eyes. So many colors and everything moving at same time! I don't know if I should look at the background, movies, title, flying logos etc. I worked as a graphic designer for a long time before I got to the film industry and I can say that those templates are really hard to 'read' most of the time.

I use Maximus Arcade on my machine and I can say it's BY FAR the most pleasant front end visually speaking. Great taste and some subtle stuff that make it look really professional and well thought visually. On the down side and this is big, like others mentioned, the support is ridiculous to non-existent. A paid product that gets an update every couple of months and the author don't even bother to answer people's questions or most PMs, leaving everything for DeLuSioNaL29 to answer, who is actually a very helpful guy, a voluntary that really try hard to help others but there is only so much he can do. Mameseer, be nice to your clients dude. Answer to their questions and fix those bugs that are there for a while, most notably the errors related to director. You have a great potential piece of software but you're slowly killing it and this is unfortunate...

I'm not saying the other ones are bad at all! I believe they are probably great frontends just by looking at what people are doing with them, with lots of amazing tools and all, but the current themes being developed are not helping in my opinion. No offense. HyperPin looks very clean and pleasant visually though. Effective and cool. Now I just need a virtual pinball machine so I can install it :-(

My 2 cents.

[youki]

Hmmm, I don't know but I find those HS and AtomicFE themes EXTREMELY busy and not pleasant to the eyes. So many colors and everything moving at same time! I don't know if I should look at the background, movies, title, flying logos etc. I worked as a graphic designer for a long time before I got to the film industry and I can say that those templates are really hard to 'read' most of the time.

In fact it really depend of what you want do. AtomicFe can do exact (if not extremely close) same layout than Maximus too. And if you don't like animated layout you can do statics one. AtomicFe is extremely flexible.   (Don't know for HyperSpin , anyway its target is cleary animation)

Maximus is nice , well done, but you pay for it and you don't get support.  Where you can have other 'as good' Fe for Free and have a really dynamic and helpfull support. Mala, Mamewah, AtomicFE , GameEX (you have to pay too here, but at least you have a real support).

[headkaze]

I do like the Maximus Arcade design, it's nice and simple. I actually made a theme called "Maximum Arcade" for GameEx which looks very close. As for HyperSpin being too busy visually; I don't think it's the main problem for me it's keeping up with all the themes, and the fact there will probably never be one for every game. I think if the HyperSpin team had some sort of auto theme download then it would be much more attractive. But then you have the problems of who pays for the bandwidth but I guess they could have some sort of subscription service for it.

GameEx - Running a Maximus Arcade Theme

[youki]

You can do the "machine" selection menu  you can see in that video with GameEX?

MAME Cabinet Maximus Arcade

[headkaze]

You can do the "machine" selection menu  you can see in that video with GameEX?

I did ask Tom if he could add a horizontal menu system like Maximus and he said he might add it as a feature in the future.

[Antropus]

You can do the "machine" selection menu  you can see in that video with GameEX?

MAME Cabinet Maximus Arcade

That would be sweet! I installed MaLa a long time ago and I was playing around with a new version yesterday. Looks pretty solid so far but I would love to know if would be possible to get the horizontal menu you mentioned as well, like in Maximus.

-Kris

[Antropus]

Hmmm, I don't know but I find those HS and AtomicFE themes EXTREMELY busy and not pleasant to the eyes. So many colors and everything moving at same time! I don't know if I should look at the background, movies, title, flying logos etc. I worked as a graphic designer for a long time before I got to the film industry and I can say that those templates are really hard to 'read' most of the time.

In fact it really depend of what you want do. AtomicFe can do exact (if not extremely close) same layout than Maximus too. And if you don't like animated layout you can do statics one. AtomicFe is extremely flexible.   (Don't know for HyperSpin , anyway its target is cleary animation)

Maximus is nice , well done, but you pay for it and you don't get support.  Where you can have other 'as good' Fe for Free and have a really dynamic and helpfull support. Mala, Mamewah, AtomicFE , GameEX (you have to pay too here, but at least you have a real support).

Can AtomicFE create an horizontal animated menu for different system selection, lets say, swf animated elements like in Maximus? Exactly what you have in the video you posted. If so, I'll surely give it a try! I would like to reproduce the exact theme I have running on Maximus right now. My problem with maximus is the bug when generating/refreshing game lists. CPS3 games for example I'll cause a Director Player error (that happens with other systems as well - like Kawaks - and yeah, I know CPS3 games will play fine on mame...) and even after complaints from other users, the director player problem was never fixed. "install a fresh version of Maximus" didn't solve the problem either. So, if I can get the same options for theme creation, easy to use and fast, then I'll switch FEs for sure. Also, out of all main FEs, Maximus seems to be the least supported by the author. I hope I'm wrong.

-Kris

edit: I just found this one. Great looking theme and showing it's probably possible:

Immortal Amiga Layout Preview

[youki]

Can AtomicFE create an horizontal animated menu for different system selection, lets say, swf animated elements like in Maximus?

Yes, of course it can. If you try to do the tutorial  , you will see the default layout for "Selector screen" use this kind of effect.

But Atomic does not use SWF . 

The only thing , i think , that maximus does and not Atomic yet is the transistion effect between screens. 

However may be the creation of this kind of layout ask more work that on maximus (not sure, i never tried Maximus).

AtomicFE is extremely Flexible , but sometime the flexibility can have a price in "complexity".   

But at least for AtomicFE you have a very active support! 

[SophT]

I think if the HyperSpin team had some sort of auto theme download then it would be much more attractive. But then you have the problems of who pays for the bandwidth but I guess they could have some sort of subscription service for it.

Rumor has it this is on the way.

[Ummon]

Hmmm, I don't know but I find those HS and AtomicFE themes EXTREMELY busy and not pleasant to the eyes. So many colors and everything moving at same time! I don't know if I should look at the background, movies, title, flying logos etc. I worked as a graphic designer for a long time before I got to the film industry and I can say that those templates are really hard to 'read' most of the time.

You just have to see contrapuntally, dude. Heh. Though I agree there is a certain elegance to the overall scheme of MA.

[brian_hoffman]

I think if the HyperSpin team had some sort of auto theme download then it would be much more attractive. But then you have the problems of who pays for the bandwidth but I guess they could have some sort of subscription service for it.

Rumor has it this is on the way.

Ya, about that. Its not going to be happening(at this point in time). We know it would be super convenient but do not want to give users the impression they have to "pay" for themes. They are currently free to download individually and some users create packs on the FTP for donating members. FTP contains the same content as the HS contains and some WIP stuff from our user base.

Looking ahead a subscription service is of course a great way to generate reoccuring revenue, the question in what kind of content or service we can provide that would be worth it to the end users? While the themes downloading may be seen as worth it for those that have the money and not the time to set up HS itself, it takes away from the fact that HS and its themes are free. As always donations are welcome and as a bonus FTP access is granted to those that can donate.

[Pig_Vomit]

Hoping to take delivery of Mini Cabinet soon (shout out to Turnarcade )
Been playing with a few FE but settled on Hyperspin
Very professional looking & easy set-up for a noob like me.
Just smashing