Advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes

[jfab]

Hello all!  New to jukes, but I've been collecting arcade games and such for a while.  Anyway, I have a Rowe AMI CD100E, and I just ordered the service manual online.  I picked it up this last weekend at an arcade auction for $150, and it was non-functional when I got it.  I managed to get it running, and get the arm all lined up.  Now, if I turn the levers which operate the switches on the left side of the transport mechanism, I can get it to go to the right CD, pick it up and play. 

The catch is this.  It's making a "whirring" sound from what appears to be inside the little grey "gear box".  Maybe the motor's turning, but there's a problem with the gears inside.  I can turn it manually as described above, but it doesn't turn the arm on it's own.  I am going to consult the manual when it comes, but I wanted to poll the group to see if this was a common thing, and what to look for when I disassemble it. 

Thanks for reading!

JFab

[Ken Layton]

There are two motors on the mechanism.

One rotates the cd magazine ("basket" ) and has a solenoid on the assembly along with a big plastic gear called the "sprag" gear.

The other motor runs the "gripper" which operates the linkages which actually grab the cd and flip it down onto the player. It also picks it up and puts it back in the magazine. This assembly has a plastic cam which operates two microswitches. A frequent problem is the tiny gears in it's gearbox. You might be able to simply relubricate the shafts in it and the thrusting clutch. Sometimes there will be a gear that breaks loose of it's shaft.

[jfab]

The other motor runs the "gripper" which operates the linkages which actually grab the cd and flip it down onto the player. It also picks it up and puts it back in the magazine. This assembly has a plastic cam which operates two microswitches. A frequent problem is the tiny gears in it's gearbox. You might be able to simply relubricate the shafts in it and the thrusting clutch. Sometimes there will be a gear that breaks loose of it's shaft.

Yes, this would be the "gripper" motor.  The plastic cam and microswitches are working properly, but not turning on it's own.  I an feel the shaft which comes out of the left hand side near the cam spinning when it is in "switch disc mode", so I am guessing the tiny gears inside the gearbox are the culprits as you suggest.  I will have to remove the assembly and take a look inside.  Thank you for the advice, Ken!  I will let you know what I find out tomorrow!

[Ken Layton]

If you determine that motor is bad and can't be repaired, it is available to purchase from any Rowe distributor's parts department. Rowe does not sell direct to end users.

Out of about 100 Rowe cd jukeboxes I've worked on over the years, I've had about three of those motors go bad. Everytime it was the gears in the gearbox which had broken.

[jfab]

Thanks again, Ken.  I have read a lot of your posts, and you're the  .  

  Are the gears difficult to track down?  Will I have to replace the entire gearbox if I cannot buy the gears?  

I am cracking it open later this evening, if all goes well.  Thanks again.

JFab

[Ken Layton]

I don't know about finding replacement gears. Our machines that had the motor problems were on location. The boss didn't want the motor half-assed repaired. We replaced the entire motor assembly since we didn't want any more problems with that motor. That got the juke back in operation quickly. Our local distributor, Mountain Coin, stocked the motor and we simply drove there (about 45 miles from us) and bought it at their parts counter.

[jfab]

Well, it seems that the best thing to do might be just to replace the whole motor, like you did.  Even though this is for home use, I don't want a "half-assed" fix either.  Dependability is important to me! 

Would you happen to know the part number?  My manual still hasn't arrived, and I was going to see if I could search for the part online.  A&B has one, but it looks physically like it's in far worse condition than the one I already have!

Thanks again, Ken.

JFab

[Ken Layton]

I have a CD-100A manual, but it's stored at a friend's house since I'm out of room here. Plus my car is conked out with a bum engine.

I think the whole CD-100 series uses the same gripper motor and they are available brand new at all Rowe distributors. If I recall, they are around $100.

[eugeneclark5]

Hi- I have an AMI R85 that I have restored, but when it's on, it has a lot of background noise coming through the speakers.  Is there an adjustment I can make to reduce this noise?

Thank you

[Ken Layton]

Either the "mute" switch on the mechanism is broken/disconnected or you have a problem with the mute circuit in the amplifier itself.

[eugeneclark5]

Where would I find the mute switch?

[Ken Layton]

The mute switch is one of the two microswitches operated by that plastic cam on the gripper motor assembly.

[cdc1960]

Hi,

would this be the place to post a question on the operation of a 1951 AMI D-80? For some reason the phono junction box relay will not energize when the machine is at rest, and therefore the turntable and amp are powered and the machine will not respond to any DC voltage commands. I have checked all points on the reversing and selection relays, starting switches etc, and am thinking that the phono junction box relay itself may be the problem. When I close the switch manually, the power is cut to the turntable and amp. Is there any way to test this relay?

Thanks,

Chris

[ami-man]

Hi Chris,

I think you may be better off posting your question to the www.phonoland.com and www.jukeboxmadness.com forums.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[cdc1960]

Thanks, I appreciate the the advice

[ami-man]

Hi Chris,

Glad to see that with advice from Ron Rich on the phonoland forum you were able to get your jukebox working again.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[pcjukebox]

Hello,I'm new here.
I'm working on an R85 starlight and soon a K model.
Could you tell me the rail voltages of the 125 watt amp in the R85?
    thanks
    Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

The power rails are + & - 36 volts on the 125 watt amplifier used on the R-85.

Regards

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[pcjukebox]

I apologise for the belated response to your answer AMi Man.
The reason I wanted to know the voltages is that after replacing the amp boards I will end up with the old ones and I thought I'd make a digital jukebox with the Ami sound.
On the R85 I am trying to use a computer with a small touchscreen as well as the analogue record changer.I have routed the computer audio output into the phono input on the preamp via a 40dB and inverse RIAA filter.
Unfortunately there is no sound.What signal do I have to supply to get it working?
    thankyou
    Paul

[pcjukebox]

I got the computer playing by holding down the outer cam switch.I'll make up a couple of switches to change from records to computer.
What I really need is circuit diagrams and pinouts for the amp and preamp boards.
I have the service manual,but it's only of partial help.Do you know where these can be obtained?
    thanks
    Paul
PS: The new preamp board has a five pin aux output as opposed to the three pin on the old board.Do you know what these pins are for?

[Ken Layton]

The R85 Field Service & Parts Manual should have schematics of the amplifier and all it's boards. There should also be a wiring harness diagram in there of the whole machine. The manual should also state the correct number of the amplifier to be used in that model jukebox.

[pcjukebox]

I have the Field Service and Parts Catalog Part No 2-18226-02,Third Edition,March 1981.
Inside it says:
"A separate publication,OPERATION SEQUENCE AND SCHEMATICS,elaborates to provide information for the repair of circuit boards and replacement of electronic components.The information and procedures are intended for an ADVANCED LEVEL OF MAINTENANCE where test equipment is available and service personnel have had electronics training.This publication is available from your distributor.Please order Part No. 3-65355-06.
This or similar is what I want.
   thanks
   Paul
   

[pcjukebox]

I should have added my service manual and parts catalog has good schematics in the mechanical sections,but the barest outlines in the amplifier section.
Are the new manuals from Victory Glass better in this regard?
     thanks
     Paul

[Ken Layton]

# 3-65355-06 SHOP SERVICE MANUAL is what you need. This will be in a brown plastic 3 ring binder hot stamped with the Rowe logo. Approx 80 double sided 11" by 17" pages throughout and they are not folded. The binder is actually 11 by 17 in size. This manual is NOT available as a reproduction. It has to be ordered from the parts department of any Rowe jukebox distributor. Just give them the part number.

The SHOP manual is different than the Field Service manuals. I simply wasn't aware that Rowe had issued a shop manual for the R85. You might call Victory Glass and ask them if they have the SHOP manual (give them the part number), but I don't think they will have it.

The SHOP manuals are very expensive. I know we paid over $100 each for the R89 and R90 SHOP manuals I have.

[pcjukebox]

    Thank you very much.I will pursue this.It's a bit difficult repairing boards and incorporating them into different setups without the circuit diagrams;also my 57 year old eyes have great difficulty in reading small components.
     Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

Know what you mean with regards to the eyes, when I work on boards I use my inspection lamps to light and magnify, without them I would have to put the tools down.

It sounds as if the mute is the problem, pull out the mute plug.
What is the digital input in millivolts? I would suggest that you do not plug into the phono input but plug into the auxiliary input. It is next to the volume connection.

The shop manual you need covers the CTI-2, CTI-3, R-84, R-85, R-86, R-87, RI-3, RI-4, RI-5 and the HML (hideaway). The part number for the manual is Rowe Ami 3-65355-07.

One of the above was on Ebay a few weeks ago so keep checking it out, I doubt if Rowe Ami will still stock them.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
alan-hood@datex.co.uk

[Ken Layton]

Here are examples of the factory original copyrighted Rowe Shop Manuals that I own. These were never intended to be included with the jukebox. They were used when the jukebox or it's circuit boards were brought to the shop. The service department of most Rowe distributors usually had these manuals in order to service the machines brought in for repairs.

This particular manual is 80 double sided pages long. All pages are full size 11" by 17" and are not folded. The last couple of pages has a cross reference guide to Rowe's part numbers and generic/NTE cross references for the semiconductors.

[pcjukebox]

I have 500W floodlights,super bright LED's,and magnifying gear everywhere;including on my head,but surface mount technology is giving me a hard time.
This is my first jukebox and has been an enjoyable learning experience especially the inverted input on one channel.
It came together over the weekend and both vinyl and computer inputs sound great.i have mounted a switch to unmute for the computer or restore to normal for the record changer.
I tried using the aux. inputs but there was no volume control and I didn't like the sound.I tried both amp and preamp inputs(this box has the aux. board above the preamp).I tried both a 60dB and a 40dB attenuator with an inverse RIAA filter-60dB was way too soft;40dB sounds great.Input is 8mV which should be pretty close to Shure MM cartridge as the output volumes are similar.
I have loaded heaps of songs and with the touch screen I think you have the best of both worlds.
Next is a K model(for my sister Kay).I appreciate the good design of these jukeboxes and am glad I've gotten into AMI's and Rowe's instead of their competitors.Plus,of course,the sound.
          thanks again
          Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

At 8 mv then you picked the correct input route.
The input on that amplifier is not inverted but the output is.
On the earlier 64 watt 2179A amplifier the output was the same so on the jukebox models it was fitted on they inverted one side of the input on the cartridge. Most of the models were from the R-74 through to the R-82.
Both methods provide enhanced bass.

The next project will be different from going from a jukebox that is controlled from a CCC with less than an handfull of adjustments to one that uses relays and has many adjustments and far too many moving parts.

Follow the manuals to the letter re adjustments and only lubricate where it says and by the amount it says. Rowe Ami jukeboxes are almost run dry.
Most of my time is taken up on repairs by washing the lubrication off and starting from scratch.


Best of luck and get in touch if you need advice.
Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK
alan-hood@datex.co.uk

[pcjukebox]

Hello Again,
     My old pre-amp board is Part No 6-08552-01
     My delivered pre-amp board is Part No 60792505
It has a 5 pin aux. output;can you tell me the pinnout?(3 pin on aux. board marked yellow/black/green).
It has an extra connector P8;what is this for?(5 pin connector with only 4 pins)
Nearbye it has a pot R102 that is meant to extend through the amp cabinet;what is this for?
Everything else seems the same.
I bought this along with the 2 driver boards from the USA (I,m in Australia),and I want to use it if I can.
No luck finding a shop manual so far.Everything was working beautifully last night and I was congratulating myself, when the sound faded,there were noises like amplified tearing fabric and now no sound.
Methinks I did a lousy job fitting new power transistors.
I am checking through everything once again.
     thanks for any help
     Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

The aux connection is as follows:-

 Pin 1. input left channel (from cd or tape)
 Pin 2. output left channel (could go to slave amp)
 Pin 3. common (ground)
 Pin 4. output right channel (could go to slave amp)
 Pin 5. input right channel (from cd or tape)
Connection P8 is the microphone input connector
 
 Pin 1. input
 Pin 2. Control
 Pin 3. +12.5 volts
 Pin 4. common (ground)

The pot is for controlling the mic over the music on my drawing this pot is marked up as R107 and is 10K

One thing more when using this pre amp the the long 13 pin molex that bridges the input and output stages needs another link between pin 2 and 7 (this is normaly a blue wire the other 3 are white)

Sorry to here about tansistors.

If you are in Australia have you delt with  records4jukes from Greater Hobart, TAS, Australia. Here is a Ebay number so you can check them out. 280416706176

Regards

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[pcjukebox]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
I have dealt with the Hobart company under the name "Flamingo Records."
I gave them a ring and they are having a hunt through their stock for me.
  Once again thank you for your support.
    Paul Curtis

[pcjukebox]

Well we have sound again but now the bottom row of numbers on the keyboard doesn't work.
When I removed it there were scorch marks around the number six solder pads.I suppose if you had a thirty year old car it would need a lot of replacements too.Actually I have a forty year old Norton that I'm always working on.
     Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

Check out the Pricing Board on the rear of the jukebox it is next to the amplifier compartment. The top and bottom connections are prone to dry joints (cold joints USA).
If you regard this board as just a large connector if there are dry joints on here it causes  all sorts of problems because all lines of data come through here.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[pcjukebox]

   A minor question-This R85 was used by a rental company,which mounted their own remote controls including a single gang 10k ohm pot for volume.With the 2 wire set-up the bottom half of the pot isn't used.Are there any suggestions for improving this variable resistance?Does it allow for full volume?
    thanks
    Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Paul,

The 10k log pot is the correct control to use. You can use two controls for independent control of the two channels.
This was used in sites where the sound was mono and used to control two rooms etc.
One channel controls to jukebox plus extension speakers in one room and the other room is controled independently.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK 

[sarge74]

Hey Ami-man

  I have a rowe R-91 that is missing the OBA-2 control I have access to a Oba-2 #61038904. Would this OBA work in my Juke?

Thanks Sarge74

[pcjukebox]

   Great news;I got an email from Flamingo records.He has dug out his Workshop Manuals which he no longer uses and is selling me his copy.
   The jukebox now has a pair of Behringer B210D powered speakers sitting on wall brackets for sound reinforcement.
They'll have no trouble supplying music to their parties.When I calculated building my own compared to buying, these won out,especially as I found a shop that would give me 20% off.
   The sound of the juke and the speakers complement each other,and you only need setup for the volume you want.
    Thanks for the help.
     Paul

[ami-man]

Hi Sarge74,

I am not sure on this in the UK we have no need for the stacker.
 
The OBA fitted in the R91 would have been the 65056512 or was available as a kit including the control unit etc as 65057022.

Regards
Alan Hood
ami-man
UK