My next new car?

[RetroACTIVE]

ok... I own a pickup and an suv... both V8s... its time for a new car... I'm thinking... Mini Cooper

5 years ago I would have never considered such a purchase... but the way I figure, with gas prices through the roof and the fact that I already have a truck for hauling (arcade machines of course  ).... I'm going small and economical... I was considering the Prius thing... but the I'm not seeing a real cost savings... consumer reports gave the Cooper a really good rating so I'm seriously considering it....

any thoughts?

[shardian]

What is the point of saving gas money if you are going to buy a "premium" priced economy car??

Get a Toyota Corolla.

[RetroACTIVE]

What is the point of saving gas money if you are going to buy a "premium" priced economy car??

Get a Toyota Corolla.

true... but Toyotas are pretty pricey too... it was consumer reports that made me consider it.

[RetroACTIVE]

yeah... just checked the delta between the corolla and cooper... there is quite a diff..   they top out at approx 15k and 24k respectively.

still just in the "consideration" stage as well.

[shardian]

I think the Corolla has better gas mileage too.

[ChadTower]

I'm with shardian... the MiniCooper is not an economy car.  It's a fuel efficient car but the extra cost isn't worth it.  Plus it's a tin can.  If you're really looking for a good car like that get a Civic or a Corolla.  The Matrix looks like a fun little car too if you need more "cool".

The Civic is probably still the best value out there in that range.  Just runs... for more than a decade.

[RetroACTIVE]

I'm with shardian... the MiniCooper is not an economy car.  It's a fuel efficient car but the extra cost isn't worth it.  Plus it's a tin can.  If you're really looking for a good car like that get a Civic or a Corolla.  The Matrix looks like a fun little car too if you need more "cool".

The Civic is probably still the best value out there in that range.  Just runs... for more than a decade.

I run my vehicles till they become recyclable steel... I  hate car payments and really don't get terribly excited about purchasing vehicles to begin with!

[ChadTower]

Well, there's a point where you're paying as much in repair per month as you are for a new car payment.  That is definitely well before the car is a useless pile of steel. 

[RetroACTIVE]

Well, there's a point where you're paying as much in repair per month as you are for a new car payment.  That is definitely well before the car is a useless pile of steel. 

Yes... I guess my basic point is... I keep my cars for a long time... but when they start surprising me with large repair bills I've got enough sense to get rid of them...

[TOK]

I wouldn't get the Mini as a "keeper" car. The parts prices are astronomical on them. Guy I work with messed up the transmission in his. Its an automatic with the semi-automatic mode. It popped out of gear on the highway without warning then wouldn't move. He fiddled around an got it going to get it off the road, but said he heard a loud crunch before it locked in neutral again. The dealer said the trans is spent, costs 7 grand and the damage is not covered in his powertrain warranty.

When you figure the loss you'll take selling a truck in this market, the price you'll pay for a replacement vehicle, and what you'll save on gas, you probably are still going to be losing money. If you want to do it just to conserve resources, thats a noble thing. I think I would buy a 5 speed Honda Civic, maybe one a year or two old if I could find a real nice one.

[HaRuMaN]

Get a Honda Fit, I did... and I love it.  Not too expensive, great gas milage, and still fun to drive.

Here's a pic of mine parked in my driveway, the color is blackberry pearl:

[ChadTower]

Man, that's stubbier up front than their brochures make it seem... how does it handle?

[RetroACTIVE]

I wouldn't get the Mini as a "keeper" car. The parts prices are astronomical on them. Guy I work with messed up the transmission in his. Its an automatic with the semi-automatic mode. It popped out of gear on the highway without warning then wouldn't move. He fiddled around an got it going to get it off the road, but said he heard a loud crunch before it locked in neutral again. The dealer said the trans is spent, costs 7 grand and the damage is not covered in his powertrain warranty.

When you figure the loss you'll take selling a truck in this market, the price you'll pay for a replacement vehicle, and what you'll save on gas, you probably are still going to be losing money. If you want to do it just to conserve resources, thats a noble thing. I think I would buy a 5 speed Honda Civic, maybe one a year or two old if I could find a real nice one.

Oh... I'm not selling my truck...  I own all my vehicles... I just will be using it on an as-needed basis.   I was concerned about parts and maintenance... everybody I know that has a civic or a corolla has had them for eons... no real issues.

[shardian]

What you really need to do is sit down and calculate how much you spend on gas now, and compare it to the gas savings and the cost of the vehicle.

If I were to change vehicles myself, I would want to recoup the difference in 3 years, assuming the price of gas stays roughly the same.
When I've ran my numbers, going from a 23 mpg car to a 30mpg car I would save $400 a year in gas for my commute. So basically, I would only buy a car that would be $1200 above what I could get by selling my car.

[ChadTower]

You'll come out ahead that way, too, since there is no way in hell gas will be $3/gallon in 3 years.  I won't be surprised to see it at $4.25.

[RetroACTIVE]

What you really need to do is sit down and calculate how much you spend on gas now, and compare it to the gas savings and the cost of the vehicle.

If I were to change vehicles myself, I would want to recoup the difference in 3 years, assuming the price of gas stays roughly the same.
When I've ran my numbers, going from a 23 mpg car to a 30mpg car I would save $400 a year in gas for my commute. So basically, I would only buy a car that would be $1200 above what I could get by selling my car.

Absolutely... my commute is about 17 miles (stop and go (more stop!) highway traffic) each way... I would really like a car I could plug in that would run for about 60 miles on electricity  ...  I just need a cheap commuter car... I could nitpick the numbers but anything is better than 8-12mpg  at this point for me.

Thought I'd throw the topic around to see how people feel about different cars... reasons/likes/dislikes... Honda and Toyota are almost given in this category anyway.

[shardian]

Absolutely... my commute is about 17 miles (stop and go (more stop!) highway traffic) each way... I would really like a car I could plug in that would run for about 60 miles on electricity  ...

Build one!
http://www.e-volks.com/index.html

[RetroACTIVE]

Absolutely... my commute is about 17 miles (stop and go (more stop!) highway traffic) each way... I would really like a car I could plug in that would run for about 60 miles on electricity  ...

Build one!
http://www.e-volks.com/index.html

nice! 

I wonder if this will ever get off the ground?
http://www.chevrolet.com/electriccar/?seo=goo_electric_car

[HaRuMaN]

Man, that's stubbier up front than their brochures make it seem... how does it handle?

Handles great, it's very nimble in traffic, I have no problems maneuvering.  To me, it feels like it has a slight degree of oversteer, not hard to get used to at all.  It is taller than a Civic, so you will feel a bit more body roll in a hard corner.

Side view:

[ChadTower]

Does it feel like the suspension could handle carrying an average sized cab in the back?

[shardian]

Does it feel like the suspension could handle carrying an average sized cab in the back?

Considering cars have to be designed to ride with 4 fat ass adults in them now, I don't think a cabinet will strain the suspension too much.

[RetroACTIVE]

Handles great, it's very nimble in traffic, I have no problems maneuvering.  To me, it feels like it has a slight degree of oversteer, not hard to get used to at all.  It is taller than a Civic, so you will feel a bit more body roll in a hard corner.

Side view:

is it stick or auto?

[ChadTower]

Considering cars have to be designed to ride with 4 fat ass adults in them now, I don't think a cabinet will strain the suspension too much.

Maybe... but you don't usually put 2 of those fatasses in the hatch of a 4 cyl.  I'm sure it wouldn't break the springs or anything but it might make a decent sized pothole into a real problem.

[HaRuMaN]

is it stick or auto?

I bought an automatic this time, my last vehicle was a manual, which was irritating me to no end in rush hour Phoenix traffic.  I bought the Fit Sport, which has paddle shifters if I ever feel the need for manual shifting...   

[RetroACTIVE]

is it stick or auto?

I bought an automatic this time, my last vehicle was a manual, which was irritating me to no end in rush hour Phoenix traffic.  I bought the Fit Sport, which has paddle shifters if I ever feel the need for manual shifting...   

Yeah... I live in the DC area... my commute is more stop than go... the stick would probably become a bit of an irritant as well... some folks buy sticks because they like and because it makes the vehicle feel a bit more peppy.  Paddle shifters seems like a nice compromise.

[shmokes]

I have a 2006 Honda Civic and I still absolutely love it.  I test drove about 10 different cars (including a sport and normal Corolla), and none of them even remotely compared to the responsiveness and overall good driving feel that the Honda had (I wasn't test driving sports cars, mind you).  Also, the Honda has a great dash board.  I love it.  And if you're into the hybrid thing, you can get a hybrid civic, too.

Crash test ratings are top of its class.  Definitely at least test drive it.  Also, get it on a three year loan if you can afford to.  That's what I did, and loan payments have been a ---smurfette---, but this time next year I won't even have loan payments on it ever again as opposed to still looking at two more years of monthly payments.  Also, the car was like $1,500 less overall due to less interest.  In fact, IMO if you can't afford to get the Civic on a three year loan, you actually just can't afford to get the Civic and should be looking for a car that you can afford to buy on a three year loan.

I gotta say, my decision to get a Honda is going to feel REALLY good a year from now.  No payments, but looking at potentially 3-5 more years of reliability.

[knave]

The most economical way to handle this is to find an older car that gets ~25mpg or so.
Not dealing with the depreciation and interest will save you a bundle and the fuel savings of going with a more efficient car will make you smile at the pump.

Now, if you are just into new cars (and there's nothing wrong with that if you're willing to pay for it) My Wife swears by honda.  She spent the last 6 months test driving everything rolling on for wheels that can get more than 20 mph.  For a while every day she would show up at my work with a different new car for me to look over.

After looking at all those I think that the standard civic is a pretty good choice.  Up to 40 mpg highway (though real world would prob ave. ~30-35) Looks pretty sweet.  Ant thats not even for the hybred.

I'm sure the toyota is similar wenough but I thought the finish of all the honda cars was just a bit better.  The materials in the toyota's and nissan seemed cheap in comparison. (but just my opinion.)

When it'a all said and done What do I know...I drive a Jeep.

Get what you like the best. Mini's are pretty cool cars if tiny. (just hope you don't get hit by an SUV!)

[ChadTower]

No payments, but looking at potentially 3-5 more years of reliability.

If you stop hitting things on the highway (  ) you're looking at at least 150k of reliability.  I'm at 114k now and I can only remember twice having repairs that weren't wear parts.  The thermostat went at about 60k and the radiator at 75k.  The radiator was hit by a highway rock, though, so you can probably disregard even that.

[patrickl]

is it stick or auto?

I bought an automatic this time, my last vehicle was a manual, which was irritating me to no end in rush hour Phoenix traffic.  I bought the Fit Sport, which has paddle shifters if I ever feel the need for manual shifting...   

Yeah... I live in the DC area... my commute is more stop than go... the stick would probably become a bit of an irritant as well... some folks buy sticks because they like and because it makes the vehicle feel a bit more peppy.  Paddle shifters seems like a nice compromise.

I drive a stick shift, but then in Europa that's the standard. I never have much problem with driving in heavy traffic. After a while you don't think about it.

I test drove a Porche Boxster with paddle flippers once and I hated the flippers (didn't like the whole car to be honest). You really have to be aware in which gear you are driving and count down to the one you want to go to. I often accidentally ended up in first when switching down. Maybe it's something you get used to, but I really doubt it will ever be as second nature as a stick shift. Those you just put in the gear you want.

[HaRuMaN]

No payments, but looking at potentially 3-5 more years of reliability.

If you stop hitting things on the highway (  ) you're looking at at least 150k of reliability.  I'm at 114k now and I can only remember twice having repairs that weren't wear parts.  The thermostat went at about 60k and the radiator at 75k.  The radiator was hit by a highway rock, though, so you can probably disregard even that.

My wife's 99 Honda Civic went for 256K miles before we were totalled by a '64 Camaro.  Biggest thing I had to replace in it was the coil (about $70 bucks).

[shmokes]

The one thing about mine is that it's an '06, i.e., the first year of the total revamp of the model.  I figure that cuts a year of reliability off my car (since I'm kind of a beta tester for them, if you think about it).  But I loved the car so much, I couldn't help myself.

[HaRuMaN]

Yeah, my wife got an '07 after her '99 was totaled, I really like the style.  It's a nice car.  When we moved, we drove it from Virginia to Arizona...   

[shmokes]

For what it's worth, I'm in an '07 Honda Accord as of today, while my car is being repaired.  Between the two, I prefer the Civic hands down.  It's not even a decision.  I was damned surprised.  I expected to be blown away by the new Accord, after having such a positive experience with the new Civic. 

[FrizzleFried]

Get a Honda Fit, I did... and I love it.  Not too expensive, great gas milage, and still fun to drive.

Here's a pic of mine parked in my driveway, the color is blackberry pearl:

My god is that one helluva pile of ugly!

[pointdablame]

Mazda 3 hatchback!!!! zomg do it!


Really though, I absolutely love mine, and I found it to be exponentially more fun to drive than a Civic, while still getting nice gas mileage -- and I have the bigger 2.3l engine.  Since I bought mine, 3 of my friends have gotten 3's as well and they all love it.  The 2.0l engine moves well too and sees better mileage (obviously).

You can't discount Honda's reliability, but Mazda has proven itself to hang in there in recent years, and for my money, it was a lot more stylish and more fun to drive.  I'd say it's at least worth a look.

[shmokes]

I looked at the Mazda 3 when I was buying my car.  That new model had just come out and they were popping up everywhere.  But in the end, I didn't I passed on it, even though it was significantly less expensive.  The biggest reason I decided to replace my 1997 Neon was that my wife was prego with our first kid, and we wanted a car that wasn't a moving deathtrap.  The Mazda 3 was definitely cool, but the crash test ratings weren't very good.  Nowhere near as good as the new Civic. 

Actually, I like the look of the new Civic quite a bit more too, but that's neither here nor there.  I'll bet the 2-door Civic Si more fun to drive than the Mazda 3, BTW.  I haven't driven the Mazda 3 with the bigger engine, but the Si is a pretty fun ride.

[pointdablame]

I'll bet that the Mazdaspeed 3 will be a million times more fun than a Civic SI.  If you're going to compare cars, at least compare both "performance" versions of the models we're talking about.

The Civic does beat out the 3 in crash tests though, but I don't know about "nowhere near as good"  It's 4 star frontal compared to 5 for the Civic and 3 star side vs 4 star for the civic.  Rollover is identical.   Again, the Civic DEFINITELY has it beat, but I wouldn't say the 3's ratings weren't very good.  I'm a rebel though, I was ok with the less safe car 

[patrickl]

I didn't know the Civic Si model, but I guess in Europe it's called the Civic Type R. Actually, the US version of the Civic looks pretty different to the European version. Only the hybrid looks the same.

Looking at that site, the Dutch version is a "tad" more expensive too. I guess that's because of the dollar being so cheap and the insane car taxes overhere. I paid 28,000 euro for my 5 door 1.8 Civic ($42,000)

[koolmoecraig]

I'm with shardian... the MiniCooper is not an economy car.  It's a fuel efficient car but the extra cost isn't worth it.  Plus it's a tin can.  If you're really looking for a good car like that get a Civic or a Corolla.  The Matrix looks like a fun little car too if you need more "cool".

The Civic is probably still the best value out there in that range.  Just runs... for more than a decade.

Yeah but you gotta have some fun if you are going to be tooling around in a little box.  Check into the Mini Clubman S.  Resale on the Minis is pretty much second to none when as well.

Honda Fits are cool. As are Scion XB's.  Scions are out the door for like $17k too.  The new models ride quality is 1000x better than the first ones which rode like trucks.

[Havok]

My wife's 99 Honda Civic went for 256K miles before we were totalled by a '64 Camaro.

And the Camaro had a slight scratch...