Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up --- Bug Reports --- Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?  (Read 7386 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« on: March 26, 2007, 09:38:08 pm »
RBelmont said on MAMEWORLD:

Quote
You *really* don't want to wave a red flag in front of the devs like that. We made BYOAC possible, we can unmake it.

Not sure what that was in response to as the post he was referring to was deleted by the time I read it.  Something about HISCORE.DAT though?  I can't provide a direct link as I am forced to go through a proxy server which changes the URL.

Do the MAMEDevs have anything to do with BYOAC?
Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

IG-88

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2036
  • Last login:October 09, 2019, 02:31:45 pm
  • Posts: 48,764
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 09:53:59 pm »
Maybe I'm wrong but I was thinking this is Saint's baby.....
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
-HarumaN

CheffoJeffo

  • Cheffo's right! ---saint
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7772
  • Last login:August 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
  • Worthless button pusher!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 10:05:00 pm »
MAMEDevs seem to have been hating on BYOAC lately ... 
Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

RandyT

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6255
  • Last login:Today at 01:07:55 pm
  • Friends don't let friends hack keyboards.
    • GroovyGameGear.com
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 10:07:55 pm »
RBelmont said on MAMEWORLD:

Quote
You *really* don't want to wave a red flag in front of the devs like that. We made BYOAC possible, we can unmake it.

Not sure what that was in response to as the post he was referring to was deleted by the time I read it.  Something about HISCORE.DAT though?  I can't provide a direct link as I am forced to go through a proxy server which changes the URL.

Do the MAMEDevs have anything to do with BYOAC?

The MAME devs have contributed so much and are deserving of respect.  Some of the newer folks getting into the hobby sometimes get caught up in the excitement and forget that MAME wasn't made just for them, and don't stop to think about the thousands of man hours put into the project for no pay.  When they get pushy, the devs understandably tend to get perturbed.  People should learn not to defecate where they eat.

But I don't think his statement was meant quite the way you took it (at least it wouldn't make much sense in that vein.)  Obviously they can halt work on the project and you'd never see another new game supported, or any kind of improvements added.  But trying to un-make MAME at this point would be akin to trying to take back your virginity.   BYOAC, as a web site, belongs to Saint (and IIRC, his publisher if that deal is still in effect.)  What happens here is ultimately up to them.

RandyT

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 10:09:31 pm »
Do you remember what forum and thread it was under?

Goz

  • KOTA
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3436
  • Last login:December 19, 2019, 04:55:10 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 10:32:49 pm »
I'm not replying to taunt the MAME devs but there are a good portion of arcade enthusiasts here who dont own MAME cabs.

SGT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
  • Last login:April 23, 2017, 06:38:48 pm

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 10:52:50 pm »
For those of us who are still new to BYOAC, can anyone please elaborate who Saint is?

I understand he owns this site (his name is on the About page and sprinkled elsewhere), but what relation does he have with the MAMEDEV? Is he a MAMEDEV as well?

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 11:40:51 pm »
Again...I am not sure what was said...it was said in a HISCORE.DAT thread which the Mamedevs aren't none to happy about (the fact that it is being supported by 3rd party that is).  They want savestates to take hold,  which would be perfectly fine with me if they would "keep" from version to version,  but as of right now,  they do not.   By the time I saw the thread,  the offending message that RB was responding to had been voluntarily deleted by the author....
Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

knave

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1564
  • Last login:January 23, 2020, 12:37:26 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 11:41:44 pm »
I read the above thread and as a noob interpretation it almost seems like the author is using BYOAC as a generic name for the hobby in general not this site specifically.  

I don't think the devs would let one post from "some guy" get under their skin after all they've done and worked toward.


horseboy

  • Only Saint has those powers.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1562
  • Last login:December 06, 2018, 07:50:26 pm
  • With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 11:48:42 pm »
For those of us who are still new to BYOAC, can anyone please elaborate who Saint is?


This guy...

If you see him run. He will bite.


I understand he owns this site (his name is on the About page and sprinkled elsewhere), but what relation does he have with the MAMEDEV? Is he a MAMEDEV as well?

He is no Mame dev, that is for sure. He does like model trains, though...

I'll leave you to chew on that for a while, and come up with your own conclusion.  :cheers:


Quote from: saint
saint is all powerful.

Apparently he is.

vorghagen

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Last login:September 05, 2017, 01:06:59 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2007, 12:50:00 am »
:notworthy: Saint: When it comes to building your own arcade machine. This guy wrote the book....... quite literally. BYOAM
Never argue with an idiot, he'll just drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

tetsu96

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • Last login:August 11, 2009, 10:53:24 pm
  • MAME On...
    • My Old Cabinet / MAME32 build site
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2007, 01:48:40 am »
RBelmont said on MAMEWORLD:

Quote
You *really* don't want to wave a red flag in front of the devs like that. We made BYOAC possible, we can unmake it.

Not sure what that was in response to as the post he was referring to was deleted by the time I read it.  Something about HISCORE.DAT though?  I can't provide a direct link as I am forced to go through a proxy server which changes the URL.

Do the MAMEDevs have anything to do with BYOAC?

There's no direct control / etc that I'm aware of for this site from MAME.  BYOAC transcends MAME because even though a whole bunch of people here have MAME cabs, BYOAC also encompasses building your own JAMMA cabs and Console / PC -> Cab setups as well.  Not to mention all the support you can find on existing cabs / hardware.

And like Randy said, give props to these guys.  MAME has been a WIP for over 10 years now, and RB goes back a long way with this project.  He, and other MAMEDEV, can be somewhat scathing in comments on forums (and funny usually), but the things they rip into others for tend to be the things that are always asked about like adding netplay to standalone cabinet games and insuring savestate compatability across MAME versions.

People newer to the hobby wouldn't know the hot topics right away but if they lurked a little more and searched forums before asking questions they'd be able to find out.

From a code perspective, I'm not sure how difficult it is to keep the savestates compatable from one version to the next, but MAME has been going through a lot of changes internally.  I'm sure that keeping the core of the system working while revamping as they see fit is a lot more important than emulating savestate features that often go beyond what machines did in arcades.

Crowquill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
  • Last login:January 22, 2020, 09:23:28 am
  • Scratch-built Guitar - Under Construction!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2007, 05:08:05 am »
He, and other MAMEDEV, can be somewhat scathing in comments on forums (and funny usually), but the things they rip into others for tend to be the things that are always asked about like adding netplay to standalone cabinet games and insuring savestate compatability across MAME versions.


"Scathing" is an understatement in this case. This is a broad generalization that is more like a racial slur. Especially to be so full of himself that he has control of a website and community that he is in no way affiliated. If Marshall said something inappropriate, go off on him/her. I don't care what the post was, it doesn't deserve that response. I'm guessing Marshall wasn't claiming to be the webmaster of BYOAC. I'm wondering what the other devs think about that comment.

I am extremely appreciative of all the work that has gone into both official MAME and even the unofficial ones. A lot of talented people have spent a lot of time to make it the program it is today. But unlike R.Belmont's comments, I don't think "the devs" are jerks, just him/her.
Brevity is not my strong suit.

Havok

  • Keeper of the __Blue_Stars___
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4505
  • Last login:December 26, 2018, 02:53:34 pm
  • No law or ordinance is mightier than understanding
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2007, 11:04:33 am »
I can understand why RB got pissed - a copy of Mame was put up for download, with no source, no authorization, etc. Big no-no...

But... he's full of crap if he thinks he can "unmake" BYOAC - there's not a lick of Mame on my SEGA Turbo cab, or my Arachnid English Mark Darts machine, and I can find lots of great information here on how to repair them, or modify. I won't even go into the pleathora of monitor information, and pinball stuff too.

This isn't just a site about Mame, it's about the hardware too.

So, RB - you are a  :tool:, however, you are right about having that compiled version getting taken down.

 :P

CheffoJeffo

  • Cheffo's right! ---saint
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7772
  • Last login:August 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
  • Worthless button pusher!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2007, 11:15:45 am »
What did that binary have to do with BYOAC ? It was hosted on MW, wasn't it ?
Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2007, 11:31:25 am »
It was an altered binary file and against the license that MAME has.  We are able to recompile MAME but we can't distribute the binary file.

Kaytrim

Zakk

  • Gosh, that's a real nice... ooh look, a penny! -- That Zakk is Just Mean
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2404
  • Last login:Today at 02:37:33 pm
    • The Massive Mame Project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 11:53:08 am »
RBelmont may just have been having a bad day, however a couple of Mamedevs have been slagging us here lately, and it's unfortunate.  Still I would highly recommend that everyone refrain from answering him with any snide comments, as he has given a lot to this community, no question.  Somewhere, someone here may have ticked mamedev off, and there's no need to start a brawl when there is absolutely no need for it. 

Also, if you saw someone doing something to profit from your hard work, you'd probably be a bit pissy about it too.  There's no question that the info on this site could be used to build illegal machines that play mame(tm) for money, on location. 

So just let it go, that's my honest opinion.

"Of all the Things I've ever Lost, I miss my mind the most." -Oz

CheffoJeffo

  • Cheffo's right! ---saint
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7772
  • Last login:August 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
  • Worthless button pusher!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2007, 12:35:08 pm »
It was an altered binary file and against the license that MAME has.  We are able to recompile MAME but we can't distribute the binary file.

Yeah, but that binary file was hosted by MW. I get the licensing issues, but wondered what set him off about this place ?  The key is undoubtedly in the deleted post.

If there is something going on here that hasn't been addressed and is pissing the MAMEDevs off, then it would be useful to know what it is.

If we don't know, then we can't do anything about it.

Cheers
Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 12:46:09 pm »
I wonder if it has anything to do with the multi game boards that were talked about for a while then Saint sent the threads to post hell.  I remember that one of the devs, Adam I think, posted in one of those threads very pissed off about other people making money off of their hard work.

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2007, 12:55:20 pm »
I wonder if it has anything to do with the multi game boards that were talked about for a while then Saint sent the threads to post hell.  I remember that one of the devs, Adam I think, posted in one of those threads very pissed off about other people making money off of their hard work.

Actually it was Aaron...the head mamedev...but my understanding was that it (them being upset at something here) has been going on since before that time.   It would be nice to know what in the heck was said in that one deleted response.   
Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

SithMaster

  • Lets see how happy you are when you need to use a lawn mower and it keeps turning off when you want to cut up zombies.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1781
  • Last login:January 12, 2014, 03:52:59 pm
  • The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2007, 12:57:49 pm »
Quote
I wonder if it has anything to do with the multi game boards that were talked about for a while then Saint sent the threads to post hell.  I remember that one of the devs, Adam I think, posted in one of those threads very pissed off about other people making money off of their hard work.

arent those boards made in china?  and the byoac is in the states?

no he's pissed because someone posted an auction link and he lost because of the unwanted publicity.
Back in MY day we lived on the moon and we had to build a rocket ship from scratch to get to the Earth before we suffocated.

Zakk

  • Gosh, that's a real nice... ooh look, a penny! -- That Zakk is Just Mean
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2404
  • Last login:Today at 02:37:33 pm
    • The Massive Mame Project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2007, 03:27:49 pm »
I thought it was Davr that was cheesed.
"Of all the Things I've ever Lost, I miss my mind the most." -Oz

GoPodular.com

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 250
  • Last login:April 23, 2008, 10:09:55 pm
    • GOPODULAR!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2007, 04:08:18 pm »
I don't think he was talking "BYOAC" as in the BYOAC website.  I think he was talking "BYOAC" as in MAME cabinets.

IIRC, he's a member here, so if he had something to say about this site, he would do so.

Aurich

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Last login:January 21, 2019, 08:04:52 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2007, 04:18:16 pm »
Yeah, but that binary file was hosted by MW. I get the licensing issues, but wondered what set him off about this place ?  The key is undoubtedly in the deleted post.

It would appear that someone from BYOAC was the offender who made the upload, if I'm reading this post correctly. Which was a part of our stickied high score diff thread. So actually it does come back here unless I'm misunderstanding Leezer's post. If I'm wrong then I apologize, but otherwise that was very stupid.

Edit: Ok, read the linked MAME thread, and yeah, it was Leezer, so the comment about BYOAC was dead on. It might be best if some clarifications were made to that sticky to avoid further unnecessary friction. The MAME devs are certainly in the right here. Compile your own version if you want to make changes.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 04:23:00 pm by Aurich »

CheffoJeffo

  • Cheffo's right! ---saint
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7772
  • Last login:August 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
  • Worthless button pusher!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2007, 04:26:53 pm »
That makes some sense now (guess I don't read the software forum that much)... thanks.  :cheers:
Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2007, 04:29:04 pm »
Leezer has a total of 10 posts here...how can that be a BYOAC issue?

Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2007, 04:35:38 pm »
Leezer has a total of 10 posts here...how can that be a BYOAC issue?

and that is during six months as a member here.  If his email he is correct is from the UK.

Hey Fozzy, think you can look him up and slap him around a bit? >:D  He needs to learn not to go and shake up the hornets nest.

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2007, 04:38:09 pm »
Not to mention the offending file was stored on HIS page on MAMEWORLD.NET!  Why not ---smurfette--- at the MAMEWORLD.NET folks instead of BYOAC...oh...never mind...I know why.

Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2007, 04:41:41 pm »
I did a little more digging and all 10 of his posts were in relation to the highscore diff.

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2007, 04:53:44 pm »
I "THINK" he is the keeper of hiscore.dat ...

Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

Aurich

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Last login:January 21, 2019, 08:04:52 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2007, 05:24:45 pm »
Leezer has a total of 10 posts here...how can that be a BYOAC issue?

Well we can't see the edited post that caused the problem, but I think we can assume it was a link to that thread, which is how it came back to BYOAC.

Either way, the problem stemmed from here and he found out about it. A little common sense and discretion would make the issue vanish. If you want to compile MAME in a way that goes against what the devs are trying to do just don't wave it in their faces.

Brad

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 247
  • Last login:August 03, 2018, 05:43:23 pm
    • www.emuchrist.org
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2007, 06:04:22 pm »
It was because the post on mameworld linked to the highscore.diff on this forum.

I also have seen a LOT of disparaging remarks about this site from MameDevs. Not sure why but this was just the latest.

Brad

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2007, 06:30:36 pm »
--original post deleted--

Forget it, all the pontificating in the world isn't going to make any difference.

Let people take potshots at whatever website they hate for the day. What really counts is that while they're sitting on their duff looking for things to say, I'm going to be doing the things I really enjoy. Opinions be damned.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 06:53:11 pm by SavannahLion »

IG-88

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2036
  • Last login:October 09, 2019, 02:31:45 pm
  • Posts: 48,764
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2007, 07:23:03 pm »
--original post deleted--

Aww....That was the best post of this whole stupid discussion!  ;D
"I know what a HAL 9000 is... I was wondering if HAL 7600 was his retarded cousin or something..."
-HarumaN

AaronGiles

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 26
  • Last login:May 17, 2008, 09:59:11 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
    • Aaron's Home Page
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2007, 08:40:46 pm »
Hey, what a good opportunity to set the record straight:

* The MAME developers have nothing officially to do with BYOAC. Some of us do occasionally post here and read the forum.

* R. Belmont speaks for R. Belmont. There is no official voice of the MAME developers. Don't take anything he says to be the sentiments of over 100 individuals. It is just one person's opinion.

* R. Belmont, if you've seen him post, tends to call anything he doesn't like an "illegal build of MAME" or whatever. This is nonsense. If a modified version of MAME follows the license, it is legal. That doesn't mean he (or the rest of the team) has to like it, though if it goes against our basic philosophy, we'll probably try to reduce attention to it on sites that are friendly to the team.

* The build that was posted was binary only with no included source changes. This violates the license, and was properly removed.

* If someone wants to maintain a build of MAME with hiscore.dat support in it, please by all means do it. Just follow the rules and things will be fine. If such a build turns into the "game players'" port of MAME, even better. I'd personally welcome such a derivative, as it would be presumably built by and for people who are interested in the issues that people complain about here.

* The goals of the people here at BYOAC are often at odds with the goals of the MAME project. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is. It's really best to just accept these differences rather than getting angry at each other, and try to find more productive outlets. Yelling or whining at us because we made some change that doesn't align with what you want doesn't do any good.

* Yes, I did complain about the 1000-in-1 board post. Again, it was discussing a product that openly violated the MAME license and made a big profit from it, and frankly if you support what we do I think it's an inappropriate topic for a forum like this. Of course, when I brought it up, I basically received a big :censored: from the folks posting there. Fine, whatever, it's up to Saint to straighten things out (which he did, thanks). But this sort of reaction is typical of reasons why a lot of the developers don't have a particularly high opinion of the folks here.

* On the positive side, there are a lot of cool things happening here, like the output support and all the great new controllers that are being created for cabinets. I've set up a cabinet and wired a control panel myself, and I can appreciate the lengths people here go to to pimp their cabinets. There are some awesomely dedicated and talented people doing this stuff!

Overall, I personally (and I'm not speaking for the team here) don't have any major beefs overall with BYOAC. I'd only suggest that folks realize that this forum is only going to get as much respect from the devs as the posters here demonstrate to each other and to the devs (and if you think ass-kissing == respect, you're way off base).

Dav

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Last login:March 29, 2016, 05:39:35 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2007, 08:42:25 pm »
I thought it was Davr that was cheesed.

I was mostly cheesed because Aaron was cheesed and nobody seemed to care.  Generally such a sharp word from the head of MameDev would have at least caused everyone to slowdown and think a little instead of just 1 or 2.

No idea why RB was cheesed since the post was deleted.


blueznl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 290
  • Last login:June 16, 2019, 04:50:02 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2007, 09:20:25 pm »
I wonder if we now can stop and go back to our hobby?  8)

MKChamp

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 502
  • Last login:February 23, 2018, 03:04:15 pm
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2007, 09:21:31 pm »
I won't go into a long rant...I'll keep it short. I've been following all these forums for quit some time and rarely post. I'm "CokeDealer" at mameworld...and I can't remember what the hell I am at MAME. Point being,  Richard "Represents" MAME to alot of 'newbies' that have legitiment though sometimes flat out retarded questions. He is an ass. Yes, he contributes quit alot to the scene and I AM GRATEFUL., however, that does not give anyone a free ticket. Richard is an online bully that is a smart guy. The reality is, if he spoke that way in 'RL', his high schools days would be re-visited. I am a big believer in respect someone to gain respect. As I stated earlier, I browse ALOT more(daily) than I post, and Aaron, Haze and Derrick have my upmost respect because they give so much without the 'attitude'. That deserves respect. I am not big for 'attitude' people. While reading post he makes there are so many times I've wanted to respond to him...but I'll qoute a saying I read(while browsing another unrelated site):
Winning a flame war is like winning at the special olympics. Sure, you came in first, but you're still retarded.
And another:
Online is the only place a 15 year old '---smurfette---' can call me a '---smurfette---' and get away with it.

pointdablame

  • I think Drew is behind this conspiracy...
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5036
  • Last login:June 21, 2019, 02:46:39 pm
  • Saint and Woogie let me back in!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2007, 09:32:35 pm »
I agree with MKChamp, but I have to say, calling R.Belmont out on "being an ass" is not going to help.  If he is rude, he's going to be rude.  If he doesn't like BYOAC, folks here ganging up on him and yelling are not likely to help.  This is how it goes though.. one person steps up and no one backs down and then we create this perceived "feud."  It's asinine if you ask me.

I have to agree with Aaron on pretty much everything he said regarding the situation.  I will say though, Aaron, at times it is upsetting that a Dev will paint the entire BYOAC community with a broad brush stroke simply because a few people complained about a change in MAME (or whatever other reason there is at the time).  I think the problem comes down to the fact people very rarely speak up when everything is ok.  I'm positive that the devs don't get nearly enough 'thank you' emails as compared to complaints, either on boards or elsewhere.  That is human nature.  It's just a shame that some devs seem to ridicule and ostracize the entire BYOAC community because of a few people who complain.. and who likely complain about anything they can in life.

I understand it is easier to say 'BYOAC' as opposed to a list of offenders, but I hope you (the devs) can see that it isn't exactly fair.  There is a great majority of people here who are extremely thankful for all the work you folks do, and realize that you guys are a big reason this place even exists.  So at the risk of kissing ass as you mention, I thank you and all the devs.  Most people do in fact try to show you all respect.  It's not exactly respectful on the dev's end, however, to group all of BYOAC into a box.

 :dunno
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

RayB

  • I'm not wearing pants! HA!
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11275
  • Last login:September 20, 2019, 09:40:16 am
  • There's my post
    • RayB.com
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2007, 09:54:41 pm »
We should all be referring to our cabs as Emulator Cabs anyways... They can run all sorts of software, not just the M word variety.
NO MORE!!

SGT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
  • Last login:April 23, 2017, 06:38:48 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2007, 10:04:44 pm »
Here is an amusing though somewhat dated commentary regarding the state of friction between the devs and the users:

http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/mameover.htm

-SGT

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2007, 10:41:31 pm »
Very interesting....especially being a newb at this all (my first MAME version was .106 I do believe it was).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 11:08:24 pm by FrizzleFried »
Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

Santoro

  • Purveyor of Shiny Arcade Goodness
  • Santoro
  • Trade Count: (+31)
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3035
  • Last login:May 12, 2019, 07:32:34 pm
  • Boycott Quarters!!!
    • ArcadeReplay!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2007, 10:56:22 pm »
Thanks for popping in Aaron. Your post is level-headed and reasonable - I think it will help settle things down a bit.  These flare-ups make many of us a bit nervous.  It would really suuuck to have MAME (edit: or BYOAC!) derailed by some political crap that went badly.

 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 07:59:34 am by Santoro »

Aurich

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Last login:January 21, 2019, 08:04:52 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2007, 11:19:41 pm »
Here is an amusing though somewhat dated commentary regarding the state of friction between the devs and the users:

If by amusing you mean "something that will make you lose any respect you might have once held for the author after he demonstrates that he he is an ungrateful idiot" then yes, that's accurate.

Who is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to upgrade to the latest version of MAME, for free no less? Don't like what they did to Asteroids? Don't update. If that attitude was that prevalent around here I'd stop reading and posting, because that sort of selfish whining isn't anything I would ever want to be a part of.

I think it's great that you can compile high scores back in, but understand that you're doing it as a personal tweak that runs counter to the goals of the people who are putting in all the hard work that enables this to all happen. Show a little ---smurfing--- gratitude. People like Randy get all kinds of love and props for making products that he sells to the community (good for him!) and yet when you can get MAME for free it's nothing but whine whine whine even though every version that's ever come out is freely available straight from the source if you don't like the changes.

Zakk

  • Gosh, that's a real nice... ooh look, a penny! -- That Zakk is Just Mean
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2404
  • Last login:Today at 02:37:33 pm
    • The Massive Mame Project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2007, 11:23:47 pm »
I thought it was Davr that was cheesed.

I was mostly cheesed because Aaron was cheesed and nobody seemed to care.  Generally such a sharp word from the head of MameDev would have at least caused everyone to slowdown and think a little instead of just 1 or 2.

No idea why RB was cheesed since the post was deleted.



Well, I'll never be accused of asskissing, but I like to think that personally I'd be a bit upset with myself if I purposely went against the wishes of mamedev.  Never been a goal of mine, and likely never will...and I'm fairly certain I echo the sentiments for the majority of the core hobbyists here.  :cheers:
"Of all the Things I've ever Lost, I miss my mind the most." -Oz

SGT

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1133
  • Last login:April 23, 2017, 06:38:48 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2007, 11:36:29 pm »
If by amusing you mean "something that will make you lose any respect you might have once held for the author after he demonstrates that he he is an ungrateful idiot" then yes, that's accurate.

No, I meant amusing as in humorous.  Relax a little.  That commentary is probably almost two years old.  The battle was already fought in other message boards over that commentary.  The link provides a dissenting opinion that I find very amusing.  It is fine with me if you do not agree.

Quote
I think it's great that you can compile high scores back in, but understand that you're doing it as a personal tweak that runs counter to the goals of the people who are putting in all the hard work that enables this to all happen.

I disagree.  I think putting high scores back in for your own personal use does not run counter to the goals of anyone.  Providing a compiled version for others may.

-SGT
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 11:42:17 pm by SGT »

Aurich

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Last login:January 21, 2019, 08:04:52 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2007, 11:51:34 pm »
I disagree.  I think putting high scores back in for your own personal use does not run counter to the goals of anyone.  Providing a compiled version for others may.
I'm not sure even that's a problem, MAME32FX seems like it gets by OK. I use it myself. I'm not anti high score at all. I'm just saying that people should show a modicum of restraint and respect at the very least. It's the sense of entitlement that irritates me.

Kremmit

  • - AHOTW -
  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3164
  • Last login:June 22, 2019, 01:19:05 pm
  • Who the heck is that?
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2007, 11:55:00 pm »
Well, I'll never be accused of asskissing, but I like to think that personally I'd be a bit upset with myself if I purposely went against the wishes of mamedev.  Never been a goal of mine, and likely never will...and I'm fairly certain I echo the sentiments for the majority of the core hobbyists here:cheers:

That's the nub of it, right there.  It's always the clueless noobs that go rampaging around hollering about everything that's wrong and asking why such 'n such doesn't work the way they're sure it should, totally oblivious of the ten thousand times the question has been asked and answered.  Especially on MAMEWorld, for some reason.  Meanwhile, the much larger group of good-mannered, non-bonehead hobbyists AREN'T making much noise over there, and so the morons become the "face" of our side of the hobby.

Boz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
  • Last login:May 11, 2019, 10:46:28 am
    • Battle Chasers Upright Cabinet
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2007, 12:44:03 am »
In any social circle, depending on how many people are in it, you will always have a few people who are always just a *bit* outside of the norm and who tend to raise a few eyebrows from time to time. BYOAC has them. The Mamedevs have them. The BYOAC and hobbyist community is larger by several orders of magnitude than the mamedevs community. It would make sense then that we have a higher number of those off-center people. While the number is probably proportional, it's easy to see why there is a general sentiment from the devs about people here or a disdain, in general, about the hobbyist.

It's odd though. I've never been involved with a user community where two side who have apparently the same goals (preservation), but could be so at odds with one another over the most rediculously unimportant issues.

Makes me wonder if this is one big Irish family.


BTW, who's Saint?  ;D

Crowquill

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 920
  • Last login:January 22, 2020, 09:23:28 am
  • Scratch-built Guitar - Under Construction!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2007, 01:01:58 am »
I agree with MKChamp, but I have to say, calling R.Belmont out on "being an ass" is not going to help.  If he is rude, he's going to be rude.  If he doesn't like BYOAC, folks here ganging up on him and yelling are not likely to help.  This is how it goes though.. one person steps up and no one backs down and then we create this perceived "feud."  It's asinine if you ask me.

Agreed. The problem I see is that when a threat is made, the immediate response is rarely rational. I was pretty fired up when I posted this morning. The "racial slur" comment and stating directly that he was a jerk were a bit over-the-top. He may have been fired up and responding irrationally to the deleted post. Maybe he's just looking to pick a fight with this one response. Maybe he's looking to pick a fight with ALL of his responses. We'll never know.

Coincidentally when I was looking some stuff up on MAWS earlier I saw R.Belmont's name at least a half-dozen times.

BTW, does anyone else find it ironic to get a "can't we all just get along" post from "pointdablame"? ;D
Brevity is not my strong suit.

pointdablame

  • I think Drew is behind this conspiracy...
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5036
  • Last login:June 21, 2019, 02:46:39 pm
  • Saint and Woogie let me back in!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2007, 02:47:30 am »
I agree with MKChamp, but I have to say, calling R.Belmont out on "being an ass" is not going to help.  If he is rude, he's going to be rude.  If he doesn't like BYOAC, folks here ganging up on him and yelling are not likely to help.  This is how it goes though.. one person steps up and no one backs down and then we create this perceived "feud."  It's asinine if you ask me.

Agreed. The problem I see is that when a threat is made, the immediate response is rarely rational. I was pretty fired up when I posted this morning. The "racial slur" comment and stating directly that he was a jerk were a bit over-the-top. He may have been fired up and responding irrationally to the deleted post. Maybe he's just looking to pick a fight with this one response. Maybe he's looking to pick a fight with ALL of his responses. We'll never know.

Coincidentally when I was looking some stuff up on MAWS earlier I saw R.Belmont's name at least a half-dozen times.

BTW, does anyone else find it ironic to get a "can't we all just get along" post from "pointdablame"? ;D

You seem to have realized it, but just to be clear... my comments were not directly pointed to you or anyone else.  I was simply making the point that arguing with someone who already doesn't "like you" (for whatever reason) will rarely improve the situation.

If R.Belmont doesn't like "us" (BYOAC), then members of the community calling him a doody head or whatever the case may be is likely to change his feelings.

As for my name, I guess I'm pointing blame at those who think it's smart to "poke the beast" heh  :cheers:
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9818
  • Last login:January 21, 2020, 02:35:56 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2007, 02:50:13 am »

BTW, who's Saint?  ;D


I heard his real name is Dennis Dowling :dunno




















 :laugh2: :cheers:
Youíre always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadnít

Tiger-Heli

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5447
  • Last login:January 03, 2018, 02:19:23 pm
  • Ron Howard? . . . er, I mean . . . Run, Coward!!!
    • Tiger-Heli
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2007, 07:14:54 am »
Okay, I'm marshall on MW forums, so I can tell you what happend.

Leezer updated hi-score.dat to MAME 112u2 or so.  He also uploaded a custom compile based on MKChamp's source files updates.

That got the attention of Twisty at MW.  Several reasons - the build  not only saves hi-scores, it also disables startup screens - thus a violation of the MAME TM, along with the fact that source data files were not included, an extension to the MAME license (derivative builds) to allow re-posting of the binary was never applied for nor granted, etc. etc.

Someone else posted that MAME's save state code did not work well for maintaining hi-scores from build to build.

Someone else posted that it was very simple to modify the source to add hi-score support back in.

I posted a link to MKChamp's thread on here where he lists the the suggested source code modifications.

That prompted Arbee's infamous "You *really* don't want to wave a red flag in front of the devs like that. We made BYOAC possible, we can unmake it." comment.

Out of respect for Arbee, the devs in general, and the hard work that goes into maintaining MAME, I deleted my post - There wasn't a good way to say:  "Deleted link to source code modifications info" or anything, so I thought it best just to remove the information that Arbee was complaining about.

Basically that pretty much summarizes it.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

MYX

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Last login:April 21, 2010, 10:46:31 pm
  • Even Jesus loves Donkey Kong!
    • MYX Digital Blog
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2007, 08:11:14 am »
You know, there is a rules of the forum sticky. I think it should be a mandatory read before their membership is accepted. Perhaps a have read and understand the rules of this site. (things like demanding answers on their first post without first searching).
It might be mentioned that newbs not address a MAMEDev until they have some sort of understanding as to what their intentions are with the project. We do get nailed as a whole because a newb starts shooting off about THEIR needs even though it goes totally against the MAME goals.
I have been using MAME for many years now. I am too grateful because I am able to play all the games I thought were lost. Then, when MikeQ got permission from mamedevs to make powermame, it was sort of open season because he was asking for ideas. Many of our ideas came to fruition. (too bad it died.)

For those of us who are still new to BYOAC, can anyone please elaborate who Saint is?

I got to meet Saint at an Arcade Auction. Real nice guy. Much taller than his avatar lets on (kinda one of those things like object in mirror is closer than it looks). I took a picture of him as as it is rare to spot him. He only comes out once a year to check if he sees his shadow.





As I understand it, he lives holed up in the mountains of North Carolina. Something about a secret fortress with submarine access. 
M    Y    X

BLACKOUT  - Finally rewritten - http://blog.myxdigital.com/
Original BLACKOUT thread - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=48239.0

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2007, 12:15:56 pm »
You know, there is a rules of the forum sticky. I think it should be a mandatory read before their membership is accepted.

Like EULA's, very very few people read them. Forcing someone to read a FAQ before membership acceptance will weed out a lot of chaf, but it's going to prevent a lot of potentially good members from ever joining. A good example are forums that are so restrictive that they don't even allow non-members to read posts. When I encounter forums like that, I go elsewhere for what I want. Sure, membership on those forums may be free. But if all I want is to do a search on the forums for information, why restrict it to only members. And yes, I've joined a few just to see the information and it's usually a waste of time for the registration.

Quote
Perhaps a have read and understand the rules of this site. (things like demanding answers on their first post without first searching).
It might be mentioned that newbs not address a MAMEDev until they have some sort of understanding as to what their intentions are with the project. We do get nailed as a whole because a newb starts shooting off about THEIR needs even though it goes totally against the MAME goals.

That's like McDonalds preventing me from eating at Taco Bell. You can recommend that new members not contact MAMEDevs, but you can't outright prevent someone from doing so.

Rather than restricting the actions of people up front, try gentle moderating instead. Add a new category (I'll call it Recycle Bin) that isn't viewable by non-members. In the RB, any member can view and freely post just like any other category. If a member acts up, gets out of control, has a persistent tendency not to use the Search feature or generally just annoys other members, then their account can be restricted so the only place they can post is in the RB. Those restricted members can still interact with other members only in the context of RB. For the other members, they can choose to read and interact within RB with the restricted members. If the members show improvement, they can be "released" and be free to post in other categories.

It works pretty well since it A) it doesn't make the automatic assumption that you're going to be a ---fudgesicle--- up, members have to show they can't follow rules. B) it still allows restricted members who shouldn't be banned, but can't interact well with others, a place to ask questions and hopefully recieve answers. And C) it's a much gentler way of enforcing rules rather than making assumptions about a person.

Just a suggestion. :)

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9818
  • Last login:January 21, 2020, 02:35:56 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2007, 12:52:25 pm »

A good example are forums that are so restrictive that they don't even allow non-members to read posts. When I encounter forums like that, I go elsewhere for what I want.


What you're missing is that a forum ISN'T like a EULA, it's a place many choose to gather and share information at.  It's not a STATIC piece of information (which is what a EULA) is.  A FAQ is simply a small PART of a forum - a list of frequently asked questions - that for the most part, remains static, with very little input or change, unlike the rest of the forum.

What you're also missing is the fact that the setup you describe is done for a reason, and your acknowledgment of what you choose to do simply verifies that the method works - they want people who will at least take the token step of registering.  I'm a member of 2 forums that do just that, neither of which are very useful if you're NOT a member.  The value they offer after registering is beyond anything I can imagine, and the combination of the two has saved me countless hours of frustration and wasted time.  The things they offer also simply do not exist elsewhere for the same price to me (free), nor are questions or problems answered and resolved as quickly.

The point is that you find value in certain things, yet haven't figured out that your values are not everyone else's, and that the chosen method by a few sites keeps out people who don't share the same values as those members.  You view it as a loss, they see it as a win. 

Perspective is all about how you look at something
Youíre always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadnít

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2007, 01:58:59 pm »
From the way you write it's like you're not actually reading my posts in their entirety. I never stated a FAQ is like a EULA. I'm saying that, like EULA's, few people read FAQs, especially noobs. If you want to force anybody to read anything, make them read the, "How To Ask Questions The Smart Way," document.

As for forum membership, I've been a member of countless forums, BBBs, newsgroups, whatever. My passkey has over 100 viable entries across a variety of sites for a variety of subjects, some of which I pay for membership. So don't try to write me off as someone who doesn't know their ---Cleveland steamer---.

Here is my point. Most information is available in some form or another across the net. Forums serve one role in collecting this information into one location. By an extension of that role, they assist in compiling difficult to find information. There have been countless times I've searched for answers and the only information I've found was in a forum, BBB or even a newsgroup. Most of the time, I bookmark the site and if I find enough answers as time progresses, I usually register. In some instances, I'll even *GASP* pay a bit of money for that registration.

But when a forum is closed to non-member views, what does that accomplish? If I register, there's no guarantee that the forum will have the information I want. I can ask my question, but to ask it properly, you need to lurk or else it just defeated the silly registration scheme. Yes, I recognize that some forums are closed for a good reason, I'm a member of some of those very same forums. But those forums have very specific membership requirements and they offer very specific information.

From what I've read in your writing, unless there are very specific requirements (NDA, proprietary, personal info, etc) about the forum in question, it's nothing that can't be accomplished by an open-to-view/register-to-post system. Even a partial open-to-view forum harnesses more than a completely closed one, I run one of those too.

I don't want to come off as an ---uvula---, but I'd appreciate it if you read my posts in their entire context. I try to read yours in their entire context, but I'm secure enough to admit I miss the point on ocassion.  ;D
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 02:01:12 pm by SavannahLion »

CheffoJeffo

  • Cheffo's right! ---saint
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7772
  • Last login:August 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
  • Worthless button pusher!
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2007, 02:06:21 pm »
SL -- who said that we should restrict viewing the forums ?

Working: Not Enough
Projects: Too Many
Progress: None

Boz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
  • Last login:May 11, 2019, 10:46:28 am
    • Battle Chasers Upright Cabinet
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2007, 02:15:56 pm »

BTW, who's Saint?  ;D


I heard his real name is Dennis Dowling :dunno


AAAAUUUUGGGGHHHH... Can I never escape this nightmare?   ;)

SavannahLion

  • Wiki Contributor
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5986
  • Last login:December 19, 2015, 02:28:15 am
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2007, 02:26:25 pm »
SL -- who said that we should restrict viewing the forums ?

You know, I did get way off point on that one didn't I?

I didn't intend to focus so much on restricting views on forums. I was originally referring to MYX's suggestion to make reading the FAQ mandetory. In retrospect, I did misread the part about not contacting the MAMEDev's but it was too late to take it back after Drew answered. Oh well, I dig my own holes.

You can't really force people to do anything, much less read a FAQ, EULA, or anything of the sort. Coercing people to read the FAQ achieves much better results. BYOAC does it right, in one way, by noting the FAQ has bookmarks of interest. The bookmarks alone saved me a lot of Google time.

To be fair though, I didn't register because of the forums, I registered because of the Wiki. But since the Wiki is oddly restricted at work, I'm left to my own devices here until I get home.

Boz

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
  • Last login:May 11, 2019, 10:46:28 am
    • Battle Chasers Upright Cabinet
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2007, 02:46:54 pm »
Can everyone hear that?

Saint's heavy footsteps are getting louder.

FrizzleFried

  • no one listens to me anyway.
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5102
  • Last login:Today at 05:05:01 pm
    • Idaho Garagecade
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2007, 03:41:47 pm »
Aaron Giles said...
Quote
* If someone wants to maintain a build of MAME with hiscore.dat support in it, please by all means do it. Just follow the rules and things will be fine. If such a build turns into the "game players'" port of MAME, even better. I'd personally welcome such a derivative, as it would be presumably built by and for people who are interested in the issues that people complain about here.

How is that any different than providing a link to the DIFFs?   Hell,  people are less inclined to compile their own so it would get less exposure.  Are the diffs themselves a part of MAME and under the same Terms of Use or are they something 3rd party that then gets compiled in to MAME?


« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 03:43:25 pm by FrizzleFried »
Visit my arcade blog at: www.idahogaragecade.com (Updated 6-27-19)

Tiger-Heli

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5447
  • Last login:January 03, 2018, 02:19:23 pm
  • Ron Howard? . . . er, I mean . . . Run, Coward!!!
    • Tiger-Heli
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2007, 03:45:37 pm »
You know, there is a rules of the forum sticky. I think it should be a mandatory read before their membership is accepted. Perhaps a have read and understand the rules of this site. (things like demanding answers on their first post without first searching).
It might be mentioned that newbs not address a MAMEDev until they have some sort of understanding as to what their intentions are with the project. We do get nailed as a whole because a newb starts shooting off about THEIR needs even though it goes totally against the MAME goals.

Read my explanation again.  I am not a newb on MW or certainly on this forum.  I was trying to post a link to source changes on a public MW forum, but the changes were somewhat against the spirit of the MAME license, and one of the devs objected and I removed the link.  Simple enough, no hard feelings, problem solved.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

Tiger-Heli

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5447
  • Last login:January 03, 2018, 02:19:23 pm
  • Ron Howard? . . . er, I mean . . . Run, Coward!!!
    • Tiger-Heli
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2007, 04:01:54 pm »
Aaron Giles said...
Quote
* If someone wants to maintain a build of MAME with hiscore.dat support in it, please by all means do it. Just follow the rules and things will be fine. If such a build turns into the "game players'" port of MAME, even better. I'd personally welcome such a derivative, as it would be presumably built by and for people who are interested in the issues that people complain about here.

How is that any different than providing a link to the DIFFs?   Hell,  people are less inclined to compile their own so it would get less exposure.  Are the diffs themselves a part of MAME and under the same Terms of Use or are they something 3rd party that then gets compiled in to MAME?

I can't speak for Aaron, but I will give my take on this.

Posting a link to the diff's that add high-score support back in would apparently be acceptable to Aaron, and a game players version of MAME is basically what we had with PowerMAME (RIP).  Arbee, smf, probably Haze and some of the other devs didn't like it, and therefore, (in retrospect) it probably was not a good idea to post a link to it in a public forum that they frequent - not a violation of the forum (MW) rules, but more of a social faux paux.

Posting a compiled binary with hi-score support added and using MAME in the name (basically what Leezer was doing) or not making a link to the source code changes would require coordination with Aaron over the new MAME trademark and licensing rules.

The source data changes that I posted links to also remove nag screens and change the behaviour of the crosshairs in gun games and some of the inputs.  PowerMAME considered just adding a mame.ini option line to turn off the nag screens (leaving them on by default) and was told that the MAME license did not allow it.  I'm not sure if the binary could have been released legally with the option to not show the nag screens and the name changed to not reference MAME (MikeQ's emu or BYOAC-ARC-EMU), but you still have issues with re-using the mame code in a non-licensed product.  (And bottom line, we don't want to do something that prompts MAMEdev to discontinue public releases of the project, which could ultimately be the result).

AFAIK, modifying the source code and posting source code patches and links to the source code patches is acceptable, but probably best not to do it on basically a MAMEdev forum.  I would not have announced it on the MAME\General Serious board, but since it was a MW News Submission topic already dealing with it, I (incorrectly) thought it was appropriate.

Perhaps Aaron will clarify his stance and I would like to hear his views on the subject.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

saint

  • turned to the Dark Side
  • Supreme Chancellor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6066
  • Last login:Today at 05:33:07 pm
  • I only work in cyberspace...
    • Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #65 on: April 02, 2007, 01:56:52 pm »
(I'm not *that* fat!)

Can everyone hear that?

Saint's heavy footsteps are getting louder.
--- John St.Clair
     Build Your Own Arcade Controls FAQ
     http://www.arcadecontrols.com/
     Project Arcade 2!
     http://www.projectarcade2.com/
     saint@arcadecontrols.com

blueznl

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 290
  • Last login:June 16, 2019, 04:50:02 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #66 on: April 02, 2007, 02:56:20 pm »
The sound of steel capped reinforced boots carries a looooong way...   :angel:

saint

  • turned to the Dark Side
  • Supreme Chancellor
  • Trade Count: (+6)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6066
  • Last login:Today at 05:33:07 pm
  • I only work in cyberspace...
    • Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #67 on: April 02, 2007, 04:16:57 pm »
--- John St.Clair
     Build Your Own Arcade Controls FAQ
     http://www.arcadecontrols.com/
     Project Arcade 2!
     http://www.projectarcade2.com/
     saint@arcadecontrols.com

MYX

  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Last login:April 21, 2010, 10:46:31 pm
  • Even Jesus loves Donkey Kong!
    • MYX Digital Blog
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2007, 03:59:26 am »
I am not a newb on MW or certainly on this forum.  I was trying to post a link to source changes on a public MW forum, but the changes were somewhat against the spirit of the MAME license, and one of the devs objected and I removed the link.  Simple enough, no hard feelings, problem solved.

Naw, ye got it all wrong, I was not aiming that at you one bit. I know you have been around and doing much good for this comunity and you knowledge of "stuff" (didn't want to write it all out) is priceless. I was more or less venting about the newb mentality and somewhat overly strong feeling that they are somehow entitled to our time and answers. Pisses me off. i had nor inentions of joining this forum. I had never done one before. I really got the majority of my fine education in the Arcade arts through the main website. then I srarted moving up to the heavier stuff, and now look at me, I wave to check if my new freakin phone can access the BYOAC forum before i buy it. (sad really). But none the less I know that your work and intentions here have been good and I myself have benifited fom yer info. So please know that was not aimed towards you.

But while I am back on the topic...(this is where everyone leaves the room) I say we continue to raz any newb with faulty that would never work. If it takes 8 posts or whatever to sell stuff. I think that there should be 8 posts in comversations before they can post. (cue prideful drum and horns dramatic presidential music now) So, if they a question that is more than silly and clearly on the search, then I say slap 'em with your pimp hand and feed em a load of bull schtukis. "Why wont my monitor turn on"...Have you tried adjusting your flywheel, or flux capacitors? Perheps it is the p136a space modyoulaetor. Have you replaced the wires with poly vinyl choride? The old stuff just wont work anymore. Becareful of the old leaf type button because they put off noxious gasses. 

Or worse, the kind of stuff done in middle school. They ask a question. The reply is something like hey do you hear someone speaking here? MMMmm nope, I hear nothing, just sounds like blowing wind.

Well that's all for me. I am up WAY past my bed time. 5 year old ADD boys are nothing but parent abbuse when there has been no sleep.
M    Y    X

BLACKOUT  - Finally rewritten - http://blog.myxdigital.com/
Original BLACKOUT thread - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=48239.0

Tiger-Heli

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5447
  • Last login:January 03, 2018, 02:19:23 pm
  • Ron Howard? . . . er, I mean . . . Run, Coward!!!
    • Tiger-Heli
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2007, 07:25:34 am »
Naw, ye got it all wrong, I was not aiming that at you one bit.

Okay, thanks!

Quote
So, if they a question that is more than silly and clearly on the search, then I say slap 'em with your pimp hand and feed em a load of bull schtukis. "Why wont my monitor turn on"...Have you tried adjusting your flywheel, or flux capacitors?

Errm, I don't agree.  I think you are mainly being facetious, but the problem is newb's who actually do try to learn will say "I thought I could just test with a known good power supply, but MYX told Newb-b that he should adjust the flywheel first, so now I'm confused."  I see one of my main efforts on BYOAC to be preventing mis-information.

Quote
Or worse, the kind of stuff done in middle school. They ask a question. The reply is something like hey do you hear someone speaking here? MMMmm nope, I hear nothing, just sounds like blowing wind.

I like that better than the first suggestion, but still.  I guess it just doesn't seem that long ago that I made my first post on here, which was something to the effect of "What is the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick, and which is better?"  (Not do I need both or when, which is better?).

So I feel a little bit of sympathy for the newbs.
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you, it's what you leave behind you when you go. - R. Travis.
When all is said and done, generally much more is SAID than DONE.

Kaytrim

  • I'm too nice a guy
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
  • Last login:September 22, 2015, 04:11:30 pm
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2007, 11:48:22 am »
I guess it just doesn't seem that long ago that I made my first post on here, which was something to the effect of "What is the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick, and which is better?"  (Not do I need both or when, which is better?).

So I feel a little bit of sympathy for the newbs.

We were all noobs at one time or another.  It just as been longer for some of us.  And some of us are still noobs in one or several areas.  I wouldn't know a flyback transformer from a degausing coil.  However I do know what interfaces can do what and what controls are better for certain purposes.

Zakk

  • Gosh, that's a real nice... ooh look, a penny! -- That Zakk is Just Mean
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2404
  • Last login:Today at 02:37:33 pm
    • The Massive Mame Project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2007, 05:53:31 pm »
I guess it just doesn't seem that long ago that I made my first post on here, which was something to the effect of "What is the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick, and which is better?"  (Not do I need both or when, which is better?).

So I feel a little bit of sympathy for the newbs.

We were all noobs at one time or another.  It just as been longer for some of us.  And some of us are still noobs in one or several areas.  I wouldn't know a flyback transformer from a degausing coil.  However I do know what interfaces can do what and what controls are better for certain purposes.

You can lick a degaussing coil.
"Of all the Things I've ever Lost, I miss my mind the most." -Oz

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9818
  • Last login:January 21, 2020, 02:35:56 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2007, 07:59:53 pm »
I guess it just doesn't seem that long ago that I made my first post on here, which was something to the effect of "What is the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick, and which is better?"  (Not do I need both or when, which is better?).

So I feel a little bit of sympathy for the newbs.

We were all noobs at one time or another.  It just as been longer for some of us.  And some of us are still noobs in one or several areas.  I wouldn't know a flyback transformer from a degausing coil.  However I do know what interfaces can do what and what controls are better for certain purposes.

You can lick a degaussing coil.

While standing in a puddle
Youíre always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadnít

tetsu96

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 262
  • Last login:August 11, 2009, 10:53:24 pm
  • MAME On...
    • My Old Cabinet / MAME32 build site
Re: Mame Devs Part of BYOAC?
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2007, 10:56:31 pm »
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 10:58:31 pm by tetsu96 »