Author Topic: Which wood? (Read 15273 times)

Matan · « **on:** February 28, 2003, 01:25:46 pm »

I know this has been discussed here several times but i'm still trying to decide what to use. Particle board is not an option. I've heard good stuff about MDF but I dunno. Currently my choice is Plywood but it's so expensive compared to MDF.

Nailz · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2003, 01:46:28 pm »

I know a lot of people use MDF and it works fine. I went with oak plywood because my wife said if it was coming in the house, it needed to look like furniture...

Jungle · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2003, 01:52:19 pm »

Mine is made out of Oak Plywood (3/4" - about $45 a sheet). The reason for that is I plan on staining the cabinet to match our basement bar cabinets (granted its not arcade-authentic but it helps keep maritial harmony....).

If I were painting the cab or using laminate, I would have used MDF. It will give a nice smooth surface at a much cheaper price.

Matan · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:08:05 pm »

wouldn't priming and several coats of paint make plywood look like a regular cab? also i heard contact paper gave good results (altho it sounds horrible to me)

Nailz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:14:49 pm »

Sure, it would look fine, but if you are going to paint it, save yourself a bunch of money and just go MDF.

Matan · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:20:42 pm »

hmm, i was advised not to use MDF, i've had nothing but bad experiance with fiberwood, plus i'm expecting to move out of this apartment in a few months and i don't think it would be strong enough.

DeathMonk · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:27:37 pm »

I used MDF and thought it was really easy to work with.

Nailz · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:28:28 pm »

If you build it well then you should have no problems. I have a 23 year old PacMan sitting in my garage that is made out of some type of fiber or particle board and it's in great shape.

SirPoonga · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:29:30 pm »

Quote from: Nailz on February 28, 2003, 01:46:28 pm

I went with oak plywood because my wife said if it was coming in the house, it needed to look like furniture...

What, you don't think MDF looks like furnature? She doesn't watch trading spaces, does she?

Nailz · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:34:07 pm »

Heh, it's her favorite show in the entire world. However.... we have a lot of oak in the house and she wanted it to match. She was horrified by the huge yellow Pac so she said if something was going to be in the house, it needed to match and be "pretty".

Matan · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:39:36 pm »

hehe, atleast she lets you put a cab in the house, some don't even get that

i would really like to hear some recommendations about plywood and not just MDF (i'll take cheaper and better anytime tho)

JustMichael · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2003, 02:41:18 pm »

Nailz, why didn't you mention that she doesn't match the furniture?

Matan · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2003, 03:56:54 pm »

anyway i guess i'll go with 3/4 mdf insted of plywood afterall :\

DZuroff · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:12:14 pm »

Nailz, if she wants something pretty then why not put a big yellow Ms. Pac on the side?

Nailz · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:20:07 pm »

Quote from: Matan on February 28, 2003, 03:56:54 pm

anyway i guess i'll go with 3/4 mdf insted of plywood afterall :\

Matan, go with whatever you like best, that's what it comes down to. MDF or plywood, either one you won't be sorry.

eightbit · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:26:03 pm »

Depends on how your going to finish it. If your going to paint or laminate it go with MDF. If you want the wood look then you need to do plywood and buy the cabinet grade stuff at $50 and up a sheet.

MDF is plenty strong to take the abuse of moving it. Some people have recomended 1/2" MDF because its WAY lighter but then you need to be carefull when you move it, though if you place it properly it shouldn't be a problem.

Jungle · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:28:39 pm »

Quote from: SirPoonga on February 28, 2003, 02:29:30 pm

Quote from: Nailz on February 28, 2003, 01:46:28 pm
I went with oak plywood because my wife said if it was coming in the house, it needed to look like furniture...

What, you don't think MDF looks like furnature? She doesn't watch trading spaces, does she?

Hmmmm...I could have just used MDF, painted a mural on it and draped some fabric from the top and it would fit right in to a trading spaces episode......

Wienerdog · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2003, 04:49:56 pm »

Weight was actually a consideration for me. It sounds like a 4x8 sheet of MDF is 110lbs while a 4x8 sheet of plywood is about 65lbs. I know that is REALLY vague, sorry. I'm not sure if that is 5/8 or 3/4, and I'm not sure if the plywood is Pine, Birch, or Oak. Anyway, the weight is relative (if these weights are for 5/8, then 3/4 would be 1/8 higher). If I have roughly 3 sheets of wood plus framing, that makes the cab roughly 325lbs or 200lbs (random rounding). 200 sounds alot more manageable and plywood has less of a chance to break if I clip the edge with the vaccum.

I'm in the Chicago area, and Menards has had 3/4 Oak or 3/4 Birch on sale for 29.99 the last week. Price match that at Home Depot (because they have a 110% price guarantee) and you you can get it for 26.99. Yes! 26.99 for a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" Oak or 3/4" Birch plywood. The normal price at both stores is $39.99.

So if price was not a consideration (lol, MDF is NOT on sale = $25 per sheet), does an Oak or Birch paint as well as MDF?

This is an important issue to me because if I am spending $1200-$1800 on parts for a cabinet (computer, tv or WG monitor, control panel, etc), I really don't care if I spend $150 on Oak Plywood instead of $75 on MDF, if the plywood is going to be lighter and more durable. Hmm, last week I decided to use MDF, but I think I talked myself back into using the plywood.

If you decide on plywood, but are painting it, there is also 3/4 Lauan Plywood (OVL and better grade), 2 sides sanded. Menards also has that for $24.99 this week, but I don't know what the regular price is. That might be a better option if you are painting the cab.

Matan · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:01:41 pm »

1/2 sounds too thin to me, price is an issue, especially when everyone recommends MDF over plywood. I think i'll go with 5/8 and not 3/4

Wienerdog · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:14:08 pm »

It also depends on what plans you use or how you do your design. I plan to have a 2x4 structure that will hold all the weight (the external shell probably won't even touch the ground.

You don't need strength in that case. I even considered making my side panels removable from the inside... I may still do that. Imagine how much easier it would be to take the cabinet up stairs if you could take off 30 to 60lbs from each side of the cabinet, in addition to removing the monitor/TV, computer, and control panel. I really need to get started on my plans.

bionicbadger · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2003, 05:47:20 pm »

Some people have also used melamine for their cabinets, My local hope depot stocks 5/8 black melamine, but I'm using MDF for my cabinet. The advantage with melamine is you dont have to worry about finishing it, it has a nice durable finish already.

Auntie MAME · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:03:14 pm »

MDF and lexan is the way to fly.

RandyT · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:23:25 pm »

The ultimate material is one you don't hear about here too much because of the cost and difficulty to find. It's also the stuff that the real machines were made out of (ok, maybe not all of them but a high percentage.)

The material is called MDO or Medium Density Overlay plywood. It's a high grade ply with a kraft-paper lamination on one or both sides. This smooth surface will get you a glass like finish with the right paints and hold up for a long time.

It's also the stuff sign makers use for outdoor painted signs.

A 4x8 sheet of 3/4 good 1 side runs about $65.

But MDF still gets my vote in the "bang for the buck" category.

RandyT

shmokes · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2003, 06:30:29 pm »

I really like the way 1-up Arcade's Pac-Mamea uses black melamine. The outsides have laminate but the inside is black. Maybe not that imporant to color the insides, but it's a nice touch.

I haven't really been considering weight. Does anyone know how much melamine weighs compared to similarly sized playwood and mdf?

Wienerdog · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2003, 07:57:55 pm »

http://home.att.net/~waterfront-woods/Articles/Plywood.htm

"Medium Density Fiber Core Hardwood Plywood (MDF)
MDF is made from fine wood dust mixed with a binder and heat-pressed into panels. The sheets can be sold as-is, or a veneer skin, like oak or maple, can be laid up on the sheet. (The veneered sheet is the most common form, but blank MDF sheets are available as Paint-Grade)

This material is extremely stable to work with, and is typically very consistent from batch to batch. A 3/4" thick sheet purchased over a year ago is exactly the same thickness as a new sheet purchased today. The surface below the veneer is typically free of voids and blisters, resulting in a better veneer consistency and bond. With this better bonding of the wood veneer, there is less chipping during a crosscut operation. I have also observed that this material is easy to machine either by saw or router, and the cut edges are excellent for glue adhesion. (I have heard it mentioned that MDF is hard on cutters, but personally, I disagree with this statement. I feel that MDF is rather easy on the cutters.)

The primary drawback to this product is weight. A 3/4" x 4' x 8' sheet can weigh as much as 70 to 90 pounds per sheet. The density of the core is expressed as the weight of a one cubic foot (1'x1'x1') block of the material. Therefore, an MDF sheet using a 48# (pound) core, will weigh 96 pounds. (48"x96"x3/4"= 2 cubic feet)

Medium- and High-Density Overlay Plywood (MDO and HDO)
MDO and HDO consist of a core material, like laminated fir veneer, overlaid with a pressed fiber material. In short, this is a typical veneer core plywood (common plywood) with an MDF surface. This gives the best of both worlds; the weight is lower than a full MDF, but the surface is more stable than a veneer core plywood.

Veneer Core Hardwood Plywood (VC)
Veneer Core plywood is made from alternating layers of fir slices (common plywood) with a surface veneer of a finished woodgrain such as oak or maple. This construction gives VC plywood a distinct advantage over others in strength. This is a light weight material, and easy to handle."

Wienerdog · « **Reply #25 on:** February 28, 2003, 07:59:08 pm »

Another site comparing the woods (no weights though):
http://www.phillipsplywood.com/plywood_cores.htm

RandyT · « **Reply #26 on:** February 28, 2003, 08:15:38 pm »

Quote from: Wienerdog on February 28, 2003, 07:57:55 pm

Medium- and High-Density Overlay Plywood (MDO and HDO)
MDO and HDO consist of a core material, like laminated fir veneer, overlaid with a pressed fiber material. In short, this is a typical veneer core plywood (common plywood) with an MDF surface. This gives the best of both worlds; the weight is lower than a full MDF, but the surface is more stable than a veneer core plywood.

Check out this link for a better explanation of MDO. MDO isn't plywood with an MDF layer. MDF is not exterior grade or even remotely weatherproof.

http://www.rfpco.com/product_mdo.htm

RandyT

Wienerdog · « **Reply #27 on:** February 28, 2003, 09:43:31 pm »

No problem, that is just what one site called it, here is a picture of it:

Matan · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2003, 10:07:08 pm »

thats regular plywood. thick tho

Xphile · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2003, 12:57:02 am »

Quote from: Matan on February 28, 2003, 10:07:08 pm

thats regular plywood. thick tho

that's probably only 3/4 thick...thin plys...you can get 3/4 " ply from 7 to 13+ layers..:-) more plys is better, but more expensive.
of course i'm blitzed, so take anything I say on a friday with a grain of salt.. (i'm guessing i'm still sober enough to recognize high quality ply in a pic tho':-)


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