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Author Topic: Lichtknarre: Unmodified Wii remote as a sight accurate Lightgun using 2/4 LEDs  (Read 130443 times)

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mickael28

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Hi, it depends on how much solar radiation you have or how many other light sources there are that have IR radiation. Also beware relections from your IR source. The distance depends on which IR tracker you use. I assume the 4 LED tracker with your planned purchase. It is not always easy to say whether it will work at 3m, as there is no exact formula for this. As a backup plan, you can also make a 3d print that uses a lens.

Yes, I was thinking about getting a wide lens as well to have that backup.

Of the different models they had in that shop, I had in mind the wireless one pictured. The main doubt is that on the official Lichtknarre site they mention to use 3W LEDs and the ones in these units seem quite below that. By reading about standard LEDs the 3 of the small ones might have a combined output of 0.2W or so.

Wondering if this product then is totally worthless and better to not even try buying that model.
I've not seen a good one yet powerful and with large cables for large screens yet.


Fusselkroete

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I would suggest the cable version. if the cables are too short you can increase yourself.

The thing is, the higher the watts, the more the LEDs can stand out from reflections/sunlight etc.. But the normal Wii remote bar only has so few watts. With the LK-software, you just have to make sure that it doesn't get confused, as the wii remote can only evaluate 4 IR light sources. Higher watts makes it more easy for the software because you can decrease the sensitivity. But the IRs can also produce reflections and they are brighter with higher watt leds aswell. Selfmade IR-Emissions, natural IR emissions, IR emission from other devices.

The official website only mention the 3w as a suggestion since the author made this as a hobbyproject and can't evaluate every situation if it is realy worth to use these bright IR-LEDs. Also the author don't use the original nm wavelength from the official wii remote bar aswell. I would suggest stick to official wavelength since nintendo designed the wii remote in junction to the ir-bars.

The author shouldn't be such a lazy one not to adjust the documentation -.-.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2025, 10:51:36 am by Fusselkroete »

blam666

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Hi! I'm fiddling around with Lichtknarre and two wiimotes for multiplayer lightgun gaming for a week now. It's great fun and Lichtknarre seems to be a great tool for getting many things done. I'm using a Mayflash Dolphin Bar with that custom firmware that introduces that special mode to work with Lichtknarre and a seperate USB BT dongle that worked out of the box connecting the Wiimotes.

It's working fine on mame for me already - right now I try to make multiplayer lightgun gaming work on Model 2 Emulator for Virtua Cop 1 + 2 and House of the Dead and such games.

I've gotten quite far but there is a problem left with the raw mouse mode as both crosshairs only move in the upper left part of my Full HD 1920x1080 screen It's like the cross hairs are projected on something like a 1280x720 resolution in the upper left part of the whole screen and I can't reach the right and lower sides of the screen with the crosshairs. I thought it could have something to do with the fact that I used widescreen scripts at first (I use the pre-config scripts and configuration files by Warped Polygon that are working very well for all other games). But the problem is the same also using the regular 4:3 scripts. Crosshair movement is still restricted to the upper left part of the screen. When I turn off the raw mode (UseRawInput=0 in emulator.ini) the crosshair moved by my mouse (or mode 2 wiimote) is behaving normally and reaches all sides of the screen again. But then of course multiplayer is not possible anymore.

I had some problems making model 2 emulator work at all at first, because I could find no proper tutorials for that emulator and some misleading informations about it. Some sources claim it's only possible to make multiple lightguns work in regular mode 2 of the Mayflash bar with TWO bars creating two mouse movements in that emulator. But I found out that's not true, at least for me. I can use the Vigem plugin and set the wiimotes as Xinput Controllers and use multiple wiimote inputs on one bar in "special mode". The trick was finding out that only older versions of demulshooter worked with assigning xbox controllers to the player 1 and 2 tabs and assigning mouse buttons to them (later versions of demulshooter after 8.7.0 don't show the Lichtknarre-made virtual xinput controllers anymore and I found no way to make them move the cursors at all there).

So it's working fine and registring movements of both wiimotes-as-xinput controllers, but as already said, it is somehow limited to the upper left part of the screen.

So does anyone know this problem and has a solution for it? Or at least any idea what this problem could be generally about?

Could it have anything to with me using a laptop connected to a TV as monitor (the laptop screen is turned off, though. Would be weird to me if it doesn't recognize the TV as main monitor)?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2025, 09:39:12 pm by blam666 »

blam666

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Answer to my own problem - I found out it had to do with my Win 10 Display being set to 150% scaling. When I set scaling in Windows display to "normal" 100%. the raw mode crosshairs behave normally and reach all corners with both guns. It seems to be a problem with Demulshooter that some other users used to have with other lightgun/emulator settings before.

Now I just have to find out how to tell demulshooter to accept my 150% scaling without issues. Taskbar text is much too tiny to read on a big tv...

EDIT: Easy Fix. I just had to set the demulshooter.exe to "application" in the High Dpi Compatibility Settings. Now it works everytime without me having to change the Windows scaling settings. I also set this for the emulator.exe / emulator_multicpu.exe just in case, maybe that's not even necessary. Ok case closed.

It's possible to make model 2 emulator work with Lichtknarre and two wiimotes and just one Mayflash Dolphin bar with custom firmware and vigem plugin.


EDIT 2: Some days later, and after taking a deeper look into my problems with newer versions of Demulshooter, I found out current versions (right now I'm testing 15.4) of DS ARE actually still working with Lichtknarre and Model 2, but there are some major issues to be aware of and some differences in how the different versions of Demulshooter have to be handled. All in all I still recommend for Model 2 on Lichtknarre vigem to use an older DS version (I used 8.7 and it's working fine as described here before).

On 15.4 Demulshooter won't show any gamepad devices but exclusively device HIDs. That is actually not a problem, as the HIDs of the vigem virtual gamepads will show up and can generally be handled just like before. The DemulShooter GUI will not present anything about mouse buttons, but offers generalized game functions like trigger, reload and so on. That's also not an "issue".

What IS an issue, though, is that Lichtknarre would lose communication with my windows game controllers setup the moment I start either the DemulShooter_GUI.exe or the DsDiag.exe. My movements are suddenly not registered anymore. This was happening all the time at first and probably why I was thinking it wasn't working at all. Now I find out I can set the right settings and HID titles in the DemulShooter GUI, then save my config and exit. And after that I have to quit and restart Lichtknarre and my wiimotes would be working again then.
But it's generally a bit unstable and I had no issues of that sort with the old 8.7 version of Demulshooter.

Another thing to keep in mind is a little thing changed in the way you have to write your bat to get the right command lines working: On 8.7, if you want to use the emulator_multicpu.exe and not the emulator.exe to run the game, you had to write in -target=model2m. This changed for 15.4, and -target=model2 will work for BOTH exes. Your bat will actually crash if you still use -target=model2m in the new version 15.4.

Then it is according to the Demulshooter wiki on github mandatory in 15.4 to install the Demulshooter model 2 crosshair scripts to see crosshairs at all and set DrawCross at 0 in the emulator.ini. It wasn't mandatory in 8.7, I used the native crosshairs with it with no problem and left the setting in the emulator.ini at DrawCross=1.

This mandatory install of the Demulshooter crosshair scripts leads to a further problem when you are using Warped Polygon's 16:9 scripts. When I installed these crosshair scripts over the Warped Polygon pre-configured scripts, everything was set to 4:3 again. If I want to use Warped Polygon's pre-config files and keep them working, I will have to stay with 8.7 and NOT install the Demulshooter crosshair scripts.

Then it's very important it is the correct way for the 8.7 Demulshooter setup to put UseRawInput to 1 in the emulator.ini of the m2 emulator. Otherwise you will simply have no second crosshair and can't play multiplayer.
In 15.4, demulshooter wants you to set UseRawInput to 0 to make it work. Quite confusing!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2025, 01:25:12 pm by blam666 »

Fusselkroete

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nice work  :cheers: The Software is in active development. Maybe in future better mouse mode is available.

blam666

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@Fusselkroete:

Thank you!  :cheers:

I've barely used the Lichtknarre mouse plugin so far. I noticed the Lichtknarre mouse plugin doesn't seem to register my nunchuk inputs when I tried it (which are working fine with Vigem plugin). The native "mouse" mode 2 of the Mayflash Dolphin Bar is able to register my nunchuk Z button which is a nice feature to have because I don't have to use the A Button for reloading. Trigger/LeftMouseButton becomes the Z button, Reload button/RightMouseButton the B button of the Wiimote there, which is ok. I would prefer swapping those buttons though, but Mayflash bar has all buttons hardcoded in that mode as far as I understand. Having a future version of Lichtknarre overcoming these limitations for its own mouse plugin would be awesome.

I've already moved on to setting up the remaining relevant emulators and it's working fine with Retroarch and FB Neo core and two player wiimote inputs now with Vigem and the "Analog Arcade Gun" settings in RA's quick menu. I assume the process could be quite similar to setting it up with other cores like Flycast etc. It involves some finnicky messing around with the configuration file system of Retroarch to tell it what inputs to use if you already have physical xbox controllers in the system and don't want to mess up your previous settings, though. It's not too complicated when you know how to treat that emulator already, but it's probably quite a task to explain it beginner-friendly to users not too familiar with the RA configuration/override system.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2025, 02:03:38 pm by blam666 »

Fusselkroete

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If you think something is missing in some of the tutorials from this forum or on website it would be realy cool if you do one. Other Users will thank you :D Glad you like it

blam666

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Ok, I hear you.

Most emulators seem to be covered just fine with the tutorials written here. I may try and write a Retroarch tutorial some day because I dont' think it has been done here yet, but it will take some time. Also, I think Model 2 hasn't a genuine tutorial that covers Lichtknarre usage specifically and as I wrote before I found a lot of dated information that could be confusing to others trying it out now, so I might take on that, too, at some point.

One emulator that has lightgun games and lately offered a handful of custom 2-player versions of old laserdisc arcade lg shooters is Hypseus Singe. This is the one I haven't figured out yet and if I succeed, I could write about my experiences here, then. I already know HS offers command line arguments for raw mouse input for multiplayer mouse setups, but I'm not sure I can feed it with Xinput data from the LK plugins for multiplayer on one Mayflash bar. Will have to try...


blam666

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Looking bad for Hypseus Singe.

I've been taking a look at their discord and people tried and were asking about this already in 2024 with the result they definitely would need two raw mouse inputs. If I understood this correctly the emulator isn't even capable of making use of more than one xinput/dinput gamepad because none of the classical games ever made use of more than one joystick/controller. It accepts more than one controller only for rawmouse with the -manymouse commandline argument for the supported lightgun games.

Also: the Lichtknarre-internal mouse plugin doesn't even work with single player on HS for some reason unknown to me. Right now only Mayflash Dolphin Bar native mode 2 works with one gun. You can't even make use of a generic wii bar do make it work, you would definitely need the Mayflash Dolphin bar to make use of your wiimote, and two bars for dual player setups.

So It would need an advanced future mouse mode to make it work for Lichknarre at least in single player. Or it would need a similar solution like in my setup for the model 2 emulator I wrote about some posts before with some external program like Demulshooter translating the virtual pads into data that make HS think it's a mouse incl. buttons etc.

I don't know much about Demulshooter and I never heard about it before I encountered my model 2 problems. But from my understanding demulshooter only works with a number of specific games and needs bat files directed at specific systems and roms. I don't see anything about Hypseus Singe support, neither in older nor newer versions of it...

EDIT: No sorry, I was wrong here. I just found out Single Player wiimote works in Hypseus Singe with the internal mouse plugin of Lichtknarre. But you have to delete the -manymouse argument from the bat file of the game you want to start, if you had it as command line argument in it before. Without -manymouse all mouse movements, regardless of your actual mouse or wiimote-as-lightgun in mouse mode inputs get registered (and can get in conflict, too). 

So you actually can use Lichtknarre with mouse plugin and a generic USB WII bar and don't need a Mayflash Dolphin bar for single gaming in Hypseus Singe. Problem remains for multiplayer, though.

 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2025, 02:11:18 pm by blam666 »

blam666

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While I'm investigating a bit further into Retroarch I think expectations for most classical console cores should be dampened for multiplayer lightgun usage with LK (if the console even offered such a thing as two-gun options with their lightgun expansions. Some had this, some seem to have never had hardware options for two zappers or similar devices).

I found no core yet that offered the "Analog Arcade Gun" setting as a control option except FB Neo. It's usually just options to make use of Retroarch's lightgun input option and this as far as I understand is a mouse-type control setting only that wouldn't work with vigem or vjoy in mutiplayer modes. It would need multiple raw mouse inputs for multiplayer settings. I had a look at genesis plus gx, snes9x, stella, nestopia and some others so far.

These all will work with the mouse plugin of course in single player. And I was able to play Hogan's Alley for NES on nestopia core with lightgun setting in RA with LK on mouse plugin and could provide more info about how to set that up.

But for advanced usages making use of "Analog Arcade Gun" option that setting would have to be more commonly used by RA's core providers and developers.

Fusselkroete

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Yes, there are so many possible input methods in retroarch emulators. But I have not yet found a universal method to feed Retroarch with input. But to be honest i only tested fb-neo

blam666

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@fusselkroete

Yeah, that's unfortunately some limitation at the moment.

BUT... I just remembered that FB Neo is actually supporting a lot of classical home consoles. I didin't even think about this before, because I use FB Neo mainly for a handful of arcade games in cases mame is too demanding of hardware on potato-like old laptops.

According to this link

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/FinalBurn_Neo

all the classical consoles i was talking about before are supported by FB Neo core, though.

I will have a look if this is working on retroarch with FB Neo as emulator core alternative. With most older consoles, lightgun-type titles are just a handful of games. Maybe the Analog Arcade Gun setting is working on them?

« Last Edit: June 20, 2025, 04:36:26 pm by blam666 »

Fusselkroete

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Yes maybe the Analog Arcade Gun setting. If you figure it out your hero for many ppl here i think  :cheers:

blam666

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Well, I've come as far as testing one lightgun game for the genesis/megadrive on FB Neo via retroarch.

And unfortunately, I won't come up with anything heroic here considering the vague idea I had about using FB Neo as alternative for console lightgun setups on RA.

So I figured out the way of making FB Neo play console roms and used a working rom of the megadrive version of "Lethal Enforcers" and could start it alright.

And although there ARE all the control options listed in the control section of the quick menu incl. Analog Arcade Gun, there are no core options or dip switch options for the game that give you any switches to make use of lightguns, like they show up in arcade lightgun games.


I tested the same rom with Genesis Plus Gx core and that core gives you a lot of decisive core options to use Justifier style lightgun inputs for port 2 and will again make use of the regular lightgun input of RA. There are options to show or not show crosshairs and so on. And it's working immdediately using mouse controls if you set the core options correctly.

While even with all game ports set to mouses or lightguns in the controls section in the quick menu, on FB Neo the core doesn't communicate anything to the Sega Megadrive game about it having any lightguns attached to the console. In the main menu, I'm not able to choose the menu options for gun games, only gamepad games. Which means FB Neo doesn't even try to tell it that it has anything like that attached.

I assume FB Neo is so far able to give you great options for lightgun inputs for its emulated arcade titles, but it's not implemented for its console emulation yet. I may test some other console systems and titles on that core, but I'm pessimistic here. Maybe if they further advance their console emulation it may work some day.

EDIT: I think if there is interest in these types of older console lightgun titles for multiplayer LK it's probably more fruitful to take a look at mame's console emulation options. I'm already using a modified mame version to emulate Atari 7800 lightgun titles and it's working fine with that engine. I guess a lot of other console roms could work there, and Lichtknarre +vigem/vjoy works fine with mame if set up correctly.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2025, 09:00:56 pm by blam666 »

Fusselkroete

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hrhr too bad. But thanks for the effort :) Maybe you make a feature request in the retroarch community for better lightgun support with this Analog Arcade Gun? And Link this discussion? :)

blam666

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@fusselkroete

Well, no prob. my pleasure!

I'm not really part of RA "community" or member of any related RA forum right now. But if that changes and I find some threads there about related topics and other reasons to show up there in time, I'll try and bring it up there.