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Author Topic: So ... 3d Printers....  (Read 172004 times)

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BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1280 on: June 03, 2022, 04:41:58 pm »
Very nice!   But man, those extruder swaps definitely need to be moving in tandem.  I would think that two motors on the same axis, with the same feed rate and direction with differing destination points, should never result in a conflict.  Or is this just a safe test?
Hmmm.... It's just the order of operations in the tool swap macro which I copied and pasted from the Klipper documentation.  The only other Klipper based IDEX system I saw behaves the same way.

What you say makes sense. I will see if I can get them moving simultaneously.  If nothing else, I can crank the travel speed.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1281 on: June 09, 2022, 08:56:37 am »
Very nice!   But man, those extruder swaps definitely need to be moving in tandem.  I would think that two motors on the same axis, with the same feed rate and direction with differing destination points, should never result in a conflict.  Or is this just a safe test?
Hmmm.... It's just the order of operations in the tool swap macro which I copied and pasted from the Klipper documentation.  The only other Klipper based IDEX system I saw behaves the same way.

What you say makes sense. I will see if I can get them moving simultaneously.  If nothing else, I can crank the travel speed.

Not only was I not able to get both carriages moving at the same time, the switch got even slower once I attempted to print larger objects.
To prevent oozing, Cura drops the hotend temperature of the inactive toolhead to whatever holding temperature is specified in filament properties.
The next time the toolhead is called up, it doesn't move until it comes back up to filament melting temperature.
Easy enough to tweak the holding temperature, but it is one of many things I did not see coming.
Eventually I plan to have some type of plate over the nozzle while it is parked.

Printing seemed to work fine in my short test last week, but now I keep getting layer shifts.  All the belts are tight, but at some point in the print where the toolhead is performing extremely harsh and quick movements, I can hear belts jump teeth and the layer shifts diagonally.  Everything seems tight.  The Y drive motors don't have a flat spot for the pulley's grub screw, but if that were slipping I don't think the belt would make noise.  It's a similar sound to when one of the motors is backwards and fighting the others.  If I slow the print down to 30mm/s with 60mm/s infill, it doesn't happen.  Everything keeps getting slower.  :(  I am going to grind flats on the Y drives and look for mechanical causes.  I will also also swap the drivers around.  Already tried cranking up the current and it made no difference.

The one thing that has worked out well is using HIPS filament as support material.  ABS and ASA hardly stick to it.  It holds well enough to stay in place, but peels right off when pulled.
I wasn't looking forward to buying expensive solvent to dissolve it.  It turns out that solvent will only be necessary in cases where there are internal supports that can't be reached.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2022, 11:12:27 am by BadMouth »

RandyT

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1282 on: June 09, 2022, 01:01:36 pm »
I get the feeling that a gcode post-processor is in your future.  Filament drool is always going to be an issue with a dual hot-end setup, which means cool-downs, heat-ups, primes and maybe even nozzle wipes.  All of which introduce slow-downs. The X1 Carbon (coming soon) actually swaps filaments on the fly, with purging and wiping steps between.  It's a very fast Core X-Y printer, so the swaps tend to be absorbed somewhat into the overall print time, but at the cost of wasted material.  I'd suspect that leaving the hot-ends up to temp, with a short purge/prime and wiping blade might be the best bet for swaps.  If the gcode interpreter sees the extruder assembly motion as X1 and X2, one would think that substituting something like G0 F<feedrate> X1<park position> X2<print position> would get them moving in tandem.  The PP would need to be able to identify a swap, and set the positions accordingly, depending on which head was doing the printing. 

The bright side of this is that the world would be your oyster once you had a framework for doing this, as any custom actions (wiping, priming, etc.) could be wedged into the same space.

As for your other issue, be careful of stepper motor resonance.  Not saying that this is your issue, but if you are operating in the resonance band for the motors, it could cause problems.  Decreasing or even increasing the speeds could help in this case.  Honestly though, it sort of sounds like an acceleration/jerk problem.  Unfortunately, if that's what's going on, the only way other than reducing the overall speed of the movements is to reduce the weight and/or stiffen some of your components.  While I like the idea of these massive, heavy duty machines, I think they start to get so large and heavy that some of the pitfalls of CNC routers start to appear on them.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1283 on: June 09, 2022, 01:24:45 pm »
I followed a couple people trying to use filament swaps for dissolvable supports, but they claimed that the parts turned out weak due to contamination from the support material no matter how much they purged.
They were engineers so I assume then knew what they were talking about, which is why I went down the IDEX path.
The Qidi iFast looks to have what I want, but I can't spend that much on another printer after building the Vorons.

I ground flats on the Y motors and added a shim behind where the belts are attached to make them tighter.
Just did a test print and had a shift and a shift back!  :lol

I think it is something to do with the Y motors.  It just dawned on me that both are running off the same driver, so they may be starving for power.
That and they are unknown scrap motors pulled out of an original monoprice mini select.
I upped the vref voltage to what the driver board can handle and am giving it another go.

If that doesn't work, I'll put them on separate drivers.

RandyT

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1284 on: June 09, 2022, 03:04:20 pm »
I followed a couple people trying to use filament swaps for dissolvable supports, but they claimed that the parts turned out weak due to contamination from the support material no matter how much they purged.
They were engineers so I assume then knew what they were talking about, which is why I went down the IDEX path.

This is where a wiper comes in (guessing they didn't add one).  A thin piece of silicone at the edge of the print volume and over which the nozzle must pass would go a long way to counteract drool contamination.

Quote
I think it is something to do with the Y motors.  It just dawned on me that both are running off the same driver, so they may be starving for power.

Believe it or not, that makes resonance even more likely the culprit.  Even though it is done often on the Z-axis, it's considered bad practice to connect two motors to a single driver.  With small and seldom moves it can be gotten away with, but when the motors resonate they can fight each other as they will not be resonating in sync with one another.

Or it could be a power issue :)  Either way, giving each motor it's own driver would be a good step to take.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1285 on: June 09, 2022, 03:09:22 pm »
I messed around with power output with not much variance.  I got pretty honed in on the layer it was happening and there was a distinct "thud" sound every time.

Disconnected one of the Y motors and it prints fine with no layer shift.

Next step is to put it on a separate driver and limit switch, which was the eventual plan anyway.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1286 on: June 09, 2022, 04:24:08 pm »
Believe it or not, that makes resonance even more likely the culprit.  Even though it is done often on the Z-axis, it's considered bad practice to connect two motors to a single driver.  With small and seldom moves it can be gotten away with, but when the motors resonate they can fight each other as they will not be resonating in sync with one another.

Or it could be a power issue :)  Either way, giving each motor it's own driver would be a good step to take.

Putting them on separate drivers seems to have done the trick.   :cheers:
Motors seem a lot noisier.  I'll turn the voltages back down.

pbj

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1287 on: September 07, 2022, 05:27:29 pm »
I just broke down and spent way too much money on a professionally made wall plate for the gameroom.  Looks finished now, though.

Who can print this:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3407862

PL1

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1288 on: September 07, 2022, 05:47:49 pm »
I just broke down and spent way too much money on a professionally made wall plate for the gameroom.  Looks finished now, though.

Who can print this:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3407862
Do you want it in yellow, red, green, blue, gray, or black PLA?


Scott

pbj

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1289 on: September 07, 2022, 08:56:44 pm »
Whatís the cheapest?

PL1

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1290 on: September 07, 2022, 09:35:55 pm »
Whatís the cheapest?
No worries.  It's on the house.   :cheers:

Which color(s) do you want?
- From what I've read, gray is a tiny bit weaker than the other colors, otherwise same same.

I assume you're still at the same mailing address, right? (Houston, TX  77071)


Scott

pbj

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1291 on: September 07, 2022, 09:46:03 pm »
PM sent

 :cheers:

eds1275

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1292 on: September 25, 2022, 11:38:36 pm »
I recently picked up an Anycubic Kobra. I have made an army of house hippos, the default owl test project, a penis raptor for a friend (look it up... wtf?) and am now working on some X-Men stuff for my daughter's Halloween costume (she's gonna be storm!) and mine (Mr. Freeze from Batman) plus some coasters with the logo of my friend's business on them. She makes all my swag and clothing for my company (t-shirts, key rings, stickers,  lanyards, pens, even a stencil so I can label my gear quickly.)

I've also designed a bunch of cookie cutters since the colder weather is coming and we will be doing more baking.

BadMouth

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1293 on: September 26, 2022, 05:42:59 am »
Awesome!  I'm glad you finally jumped in.

yotsuya

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1294 on: September 26, 2022, 02:16:16 pm »
My daughter is taking a History of Film class and fell in love with a specific genre. I am printing a replica of a famous movie prop and will post it here when done.


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nitrogen_widget

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1295 on: September 26, 2022, 08:40:44 pm »
I recently picked up an Anycubic Kobra. I have made an army of house hippos, the default owl test project, a penis raptor for a friend (look it up... wtf?) and am now working on some X-Men stuff for my daughter's Halloween costume (she's gonna be storm!) and mine (Mr. Freeze from Batman) plus some coasters with the logo of my friend's business on them. She makes all my swag and clothing for my company (t-shirts, key rings, stickers,  lanyards, pens, even a stencil so I can label my gear quickly.)

I've also designed a bunch of cookie cutters since the colder weather is coming and we will be doing more baking.

nice.
I have the Vyper and the Chiron.
Chiron is in a pile waiting for winter to work on.

I did print a fallout power armor helmet for my kid for Halloween on the Vyper though.
it had to be printed in 8 pieces (chiron would of handled it whole)  :banghead:. i tried using a 3d pen to fill the seams and it worked ok but using the squeeze epoxy from home depot and a business card cut to the curve of the helmet is working way better.

i'm also thinking of making the pip boy for him.
i've got a touch screen, rpi zero 2, and all the hardware needed to bolt it together.
he mainly wants it to play the fallout music while he's out with friends.
so i may attempt this without telling him so he isn't let down.

back up is $30 fake pip-boy that doesn't do anything but light up from the spirit store.
but i can give him a BT speaker and he can load the music on his phone.

yotsuya

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1296 on: September 28, 2022, 06:34:01 pm »

Here you go - printed in 3 parts to make an exact size replica.




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bobbyb13

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1297 on: September 29, 2022, 02:21:26 am »

Here you go - printed in 3 parts to make an exact size replica.




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Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!
Love that.
How much does the little beast weigh?
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1298 on: September 29, 2022, 12:19:56 pm »

Here you go - printed in 3 parts to make an exact size replica.




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Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!
Love that.
How much does the little beast weigh?
Itís actually pretty light, because itís hollow. It was printed in three pieces, and I plan to fill it with sand before I seal it up.


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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1299 on: September 29, 2022, 04:55:00 pm »
That would be a good candidate for printing in ABS and acetone smoothing.  It would look even more original.
EDIT: Andy shiny!

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Re: So ... 3d Printers....
« Reply #1300 on: October 01, 2022, 11:03:27 am »
That would be a good candidate for printing in ABS and acetone smoothing.  It would look even more original.
EDIT: Andy shiny!

5% octo infill, twice as many walls, heat lamp over the printer.
wait, doesn't he have an enclosure?