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Author Topic: Given up on AVGA card, what now?  (Read 1565 times)

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robbbby

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Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« on: January 28, 2016, 07:20:46 am »
I'm new to the whole mame thing and getting this AVGA card running in win8 with ddraw and hyperspin has been a challenge.
I've been reading through the groovymame forums here and not only is everybody helpful but it seems like GM with crt emulator is a winning combination.

Before I start over and begin the process of trying to install/configure the software properly, I was wondering what video card I should use.
I currently have 3 different ati cards sitting around collecting dust.  I have a tiny fanless 5450, a big loud 4890 and a 6870.  Is there any benefit to running the 4890 or 6870 in GM?

Thanks

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2016, 07:31:42 am »
Of those cards, the easiest to setup is probably the 6870 combined with CRT Emudriver 2.0. It will only have one analog output, so you can't pick the wrong one.

The 5450 is just as easy, you only need to know that the VGA is "Analog_1" and the DVI is "Analog_0", this applies to the EDID emulation dialog in VMMaker's settings.

For the 6870 always pick "Analog_0".



Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2016, 04:08:52 pm »
Stupid question #1
I just ordered a dvi -> vga adapter that will show up tomorrow so I will have the weekend to play with this.  How do I know which of the 2 dvi ports on the 6870 does analog?  Just a matter of trying each one?

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 07:15:06 am »
Yes pretty much, try the one closest to the mobo 1st


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robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 09:12:16 pm »
I'm having a hell of a time proceeding, I've read the instructions over and over but I must be too dumb to have them sink in or click.

I've edited all my .ini files for mame and VMM, ran the VMM executable and rebooted.

Now i'm at the point with OSD.  I am confused about when I can plug my vga cable into my radeon. Can it be plugged in after running VMM and rebooting? do I plug it in after running OSD and "attaching" it to a display? And at what point do I set the resolution for my arcade monitor?

Calamity, you mentioned always pick analog_0, where am I supposed to be seeing that? OSD just showed DISPLAY_1 and display_2.

Not sure it makes any difference but windows had intel hd display drivers installed, I went into device manager and selected to disable them so that the 6870 is the only active display adapter.

Currently have a computer monitor plugged into the DVI port for the setup and awaiting to plug the jac into the other port with a vga adapter. 

I'm also running win 8.1
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 09:15:48 pm by robbbby »

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2016, 04:49:28 am »
I understand you're using CRT Emudriver 2.0. I'm not sure what instructions you mean, probably the ones for the old 1.2 version. You no longer have to edit the .ini file, run and restart. Everything is done now through VMMaker user interface. This guide is for the new version, however it's focused on ATI legacy cards, so there are differences in the process you have to follow. Specifically, you must enable EDID emulation in the video cards settings tab, that's where the Analog_0 option applies.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 09:17:02 am »
You're right, I was doing the old 1.2.  I visited your website many times looking for help but I kept checking under the support and documentation forums.

Downloaded the new driver and software, and of course I still can't get it right even with a GUI.

When I try and installed the 23 generated modes, I get "rejected by driver".


robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 09:32:58 am »
I just noticed, even though I installed  crt emu 2.0 my display adapters are still showing up as 1.2 in both VMM and windows display adapter driver info, where it shows driver version 9.0.x

Guessing I need to fix that first before proceeding.

One other thing i've noticed, again user error on my part, but my 6870 has 2 dvi ports, I have a PC monitor plugged into dvi port 2 so I can try configuring everything, then in DVI port1 I have the vga adapter to eventually go to my arcade monitor. 
After installing the drivers and enabling EDID on analog_0 windows creates a display called ARCADE_15 or GENERIC_15 depending on what I selected in VMM.  This display becomes extended from my main PC display but all the open programs like VMM are moved to this ARCADE_15 display which I cannot access with my computer monitor since it is 640x480 @ 30Hz.  The only way to get the software back to my main PC display is disabling ARCADE_15 but i don't think it's supposed to be disabled.

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2016, 10:40:26 am »
Got it to work.  Only thing I noticed, when I went back to install the higher res modes, I deselected to extend the desktop but after creating the modes one of the "generic" displays became active again and became part of the extended desktop. 

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 05:26:57 pm »
Got it to work.  Only thing I noticed, when I went back to install the higher res modes, I deselected to extend the desktop but after creating the modes one of the "generic" displays became active again and became part of the extended desktop.

Not sure if I understand what you mean.

You're not supposed to disable EDID emulation. Now that you know what's your analog DVI, simply enable EDID emulation with the monitor preset that you need (generic_15, arcade_15, etc.)

This will trigger a display device restart and yes, probably the desktop order will be switched and your apps will move to the new desktop. At that point you're supposed to plug your arcade monitor in order to take control of the system.

Revert the desktop order now from the Windows display properties dialog if that's what you like, or either disable the PC monitor output if you don't plan to use it any more.

In order to create the modes, you must point to the correct display device, the one now named after your monitor preset. Otherwise your modes won't point to the right monitor and will probably get rejected.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 07:16:50 pm »
Calamity thanks so much for all the help.  I ended up figuring everything out after lots of reading and trial/error.  I've been enjoying playing for the better part of the day and I can say everything looks much better than it did before using the avga and hyperspin.  There is just one thing wrong but I'm pretty sure it's something with the actual monitor/chassis and not the software. 
No matter what my resolution is at and no matter if i'm in mame or the windows desktop the picture rolls over onto itself at the top of the screen.  I've tried all the knobs including vertical size/position and it adjusts things a little but not enough to cure the overlap.  Really noticeable in vertical games, but non existent in horizontal games like simpsons, TMNT, r-type

« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 09:23:19 pm by robbbby »

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 09:26:15 pm »
One other thing, i've been getting a lot of errors like these, not sure if it's something I did wrong or it can't find a resolution? 
Some games have a dos window pop up that has a bunch of text pop up, the game never loads and it falls back to the front end.
The second pic I get quite a bit, usually different errors, the one below was the first one regarding cocktail flipping, they all say to move joystick left then right to continue, most games appear to work fine after this?

« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 09:27:53 pm by robbbby »

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2016, 09:44:30 pm »
I can't make out the pic showing the crashing.

For the nag screen go in your mame.ini file and check for these settings:

disable_hiscore_patch     0
disable_nagscreen_patch   0
disable_loading_patch     0

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2016, 10:24:56 pm »
So the second picture is nothing more than a nag screen?  The errors are usually all different so I wasn't sure if I should be concerned.

Somebody else said the roll/folding may be resolution related but I remember having a very slight issue at the top of the screen when I was running the original neo geo hardware.  At the time I thought it was a blur and was a horiz. hold issue but now i'm thinking it may have been a fold, though it was nowhere as near as bad as the 1942 pic I posted.  I really hope it's a software/resolution issue and not the components on the chassis.

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2016, 01:47:10 pm »
What monitor model do you have? Does it have a separate power supply?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2016, 03:59:34 pm »
WG k7000 Chassis with a zenith tube.

I'm not sure if there is any sort of power supply somewhere on the board but I just have it hooked up to the secondary of a 120VAC/120VAC isolation transformer

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2016, 04:21:53 pm »
I'm asking because the Hantarex MTC 9000 has an external power supply, and if the voltage is not properly adjusted it causes a somewhat similar issue on the upper part of the screen, but without the folding, only lines are too separated. This happens when you get a cabinet that has always had a pcb connected to it, then you unplug the pcb and connect a pc. Because the power supply no longer feeds the pcb, the voltage driven to the monitor varies, and needs to be readjusted. Please take my words with caution because I know nothing about WG monitors.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

robbbby

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2016, 05:22:25 pm »
I appreciate the advice.  I was just crossing my fingers hoping it was something related to not having the pc or certain resolutions setup properly.

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2016, 07:04:30 am »
Hi!  :)

since my question is more or less the same as the TS's I hope it's ok to kind of hijack this thread instead of starting a new one.

I've just built a completely new PC for GroovyMAME to go in a cab with a motorized rotating Hantarex MTC 9110. The PC is a i7 with up to 4 x 4,4MHz, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD & a dedicated sound card.

Now that the emulations and MALA are all set up and working perfectly it's time to connect to the CRT. I tried the installation with a Sapphire HD4890 New Version (with HDMI & DVI out) and another Sapphire HD4890 Old Version (with 2 x DVI out), but especially the CRT detection problems are driving me crazy. Add in the other problems users are reporting with the high-end 48xx cards I'd now like to buy a different one off eBay which hopefully makes setup and use easier.

So - with all the changes going on due to CRT Emudriver 2.0 - which card is the best to use for a GM .170 setup if I want maximum compatibility & best performance (and don't care about the price)?

I really don't understand the naming of the ATI cards at all...so I don't know which one to buy. Any help or recommendation is highly appreciated!  :)

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 04:02:06 pm »
Hi  someonelse,

Check this thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149266.0.html

ATI numbering: first digit stands for family, higher is newer, second digit stands for price and power (4 -budget ... 9- enthusiast).


Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2016, 02:28:06 am »
Thanks!  :)

Eventually i also found this, which is very useful when comparing different generations ATI cards: http://www.hardware-infos.com/grafikkarten-ati.html

A friend gave me a HD4350 yesterday, I'll go with that until there's more experience reports to read from with the newer cards & Emudriver 2.0.

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2016, 12:30:14 pm »
Just started the installation of CRT Emudriver 2.0 and after so many failed attempts i really want to get it 100% right this time around.

First problem (?) occurs when installing the graphics card in the PC using a PC LCD monitor. In the Emudriver installation guide it seems emphasized that Win7 recognizes the card and the EDID with standard Microsoft drivers at this point, but this doesn't work for me.

If i don't connect to the internet Win7 installs a generic Microsoft VGA driver which does not identify the card (it says something like "generic VGA device") nor the EDID (monitor is "generic PnP...").
If i connect to the internet Windows Update immediately automatically installs the ATI 8.632 driver, then the card is correctly identified (ATI Radeon 4800 Series) and the LCD EDID is detected (NEC LCD1760X).
This occurs with Win7 clean installs and with Win7 clean installs plus all updates, there is never any EDID detection with just the Win7 integrated Microsoft drivers. No difference if using 2 different HD4890s or a HD4350.

What is the best thing to do now?
Let Win7 install the ATI driver (that reads EDID and card info correctly) and install CRT Emudriver over it or ignore that the Microsoft drivers don't support EDID or card type detection and install the Emudriver and go from there without installing the ATI drivers?

As soon as i install Emudriver the correct card and EDID is detected as the ATI components are then installed (I know this from all my former attempts with Emudriver 1.x that all failed at different points along the way), but maybe it's "to late" then?
Just can't get it to work exactly as in the guide.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 12:33:29 pm by someoneelse »

Calamity

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2016, 02:10:32 pm »
Don't be too obsessed about seeing the same behaviour, my copy of W7 contains the drivers, yours doesn't, that's all. If you check my guide for the HD 5450, I'm doing the installation over the standard vga driver in there. Personally I'd allow Windows install its drivers first, then install CRT Emudriver, probably you won't even need to restart.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2016, 07:16:06 pm »
Thanks for the encouragement!  :)

I've actually managed to get a picture on my CRT (connected though J-Pac set to pass through 15KHz only). But the picture will just not stick. It's rolling horizontally & vertically - I guess this is what you call "not synching"?
If i adjust the horizontal & vertical width to be very small it moves more slowly and sometimes even sticks for half a second, but it never stays that way. The bigger i make the picture the faster it rolls and the h & v hold get extremely touchy.

Any ideas on where to look now? Is this a CRT issue or is something not working properly with Emudriver? Maybe someone can point me in the right direction.  ???

The monitor is Hantarex MTC9110 in a Jumbo Quadro cab, it works flawlessly with jamma arcade PCBs.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 07:26:38 pm by someoneelse »

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2016, 10:30:30 am »
Posted the pic above in the German CRT forum and the pros there let me know that the CRT is definitely getting a 31Khz signal that it's trying to synch to (which of course is not working).

Went back to the J-Pac and installed the second jumper on the 31KHz connector (the one on 15KHz was already installed), now I see that there is a "Synch OK" LED since it is now lighting up green (before only the "Synch IN" LED was lighting up orange).

Is it safe to turn the CRT back on in this state? It's confusing to me that the J-Pac seems to have passed on the 31KHz signal as posted above even though i only had the 15KHz jumper installed. Makes me worry a bit that the J-Pac will not protect my CRT against wrong frequencies at all.

My best guess is that W7 is not picking the 640x480 15KHz but rather the system mode 640x480 31KHz for the secondary monitor. Think i read something about that problem here in the forum, I'll try to find that thread.
Would it help if i chose a mode that only exists as a custom mode, e.g. 544x242, just as a workaround until I know how to handle the 640x480-problem?

I'm still stuck in the middle of the installation process...  :banghead:

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2016, 08:36:57 pm »
After lot's of trail and error (it kept going out of synch when automatically switching to 768x512 on monitor detect in the last step of installation, so finally I deleted that mode from the custom list) I've got my desktop on the CRT.

Now it works for some time and then goes out of synch, the picture starts rolling. If I restart the CRT and don't touch anything else it's in synch again - but only for a while.
It also loses synch on most games i start in GM (using super resolutions), but e.g. Pac-Man & Nemesis work very nicely. I'll have to look into which resolutions work and which don't. I can exit non-synching games and it synchs again when switching to the 640x480 frontend, but only to a certain point when it completely loses it and i have restart the monitor again.

Is this something to look for on monitor side or can it be related to the software, drivers etc?
It's strange that it still works perfectly with PCB games, though.

someoneelse

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Re: Given up on AVGA card, what now?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2016, 12:21:06 pm »
It turned out to be a flaky v-hold resistor on the adjustment board of the CRT.

Everything's working perfectly now!

So happy, been working on this since christmas....  ;D

  
 

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