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Main => Consoles => Topic started by: KenToad on December 23, 2018, 02:12:57 am

Title: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 23, 2018, 02:12:57 am
Have you guys seen this?

http://neslcdmod.com/ (http://neslcdmod.com/)
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods potentially enable playing zapper games on flatscreen
Post by: bigster on December 23, 2018, 07:20:39 am
Yes, I think it is this

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=157652.0

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods potentially enable playing zapper games on flatscreen
Post by: KenToad on December 23, 2018, 01:30:39 pm
Nope, this is a romhack solution using original hardware. No one is selling anything here, as far as I can tell.

Supposedly, it doesn't work well with the official Zapper, but works well with the inexpensive Tomee zapp, which I just ordered for 5.99 shipped on Amazon.

Maybe this is pie in the sky stuff? I don't know, but it would pretty much solve my need for a CRT, so I figure it's worth a try.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Howard_Casto on December 23, 2018, 04:27:15 pm
I did a post about it in one of the numerous light gun threads.  You have to actually read them.  ;)  I can tell you that it should work as I've played around with zappers on lcds in the past and the only thing holding them back is the timing. 
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 23, 2018, 05:55:25 pm
I probably did read it. Maybe I forgot. I guess it deserves it's own thread, if it works well enough.

Great to hear that you think it should work. I ordered a Retrotink 2X, because it's supposed to eliminate lag by line doubling so that your TV doesn't have to upscale the video output of older consoles.

So we shall see if I can get the timing right.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Howard_Casto on December 23, 2018, 07:30:34 pm
Let me know how the retrotink works for you.  Been eyeballing that one for a while.  The way the rom hacks work makes the timing adjustable, so it'll work in that sense, it's just will it slow the gameplay down so much that you can't stand it is the question.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 27, 2018, 02:09:37 pm
I played the modded Duck Huck rom (beta 5) on my OG NES front loader with an Everdrive N8 and Tomee Zapp light gun through composite on a Sceptre-brand 1080p 40" flatscreen.

I haven't tried the Nintendo Zapper yet, but the Zapp gun works unbelievably well shooting 2 ducks. I easily got to round 8 and I could have gone farther, but the Zapp has an uncomfortably short cord at about 5 feet, and it doesn't seem to work with the 4 score as an extension cable, so I just let the game end, so that I could try clay shooting before setting up my NES in a more comfortable spot.

No wrong ducks ever died. Every time I felt like I was on target, the correct duck would die.

So that was amazing. Here's the weird part: I couldn't hit a single clay pidgeon.

So I messed with the settings a bit. I hadn't messed with the delay at all yet. Even after messing with the delay a bit, I can't get clay pidgeon shooting to work, not a single hit.

Still, as a proof of concept, especially with auto delay calibration, this is mind-blowing.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: pbj on December 27, 2018, 02:13:47 pm
The problem with the NES zapper games is they're piss easy, and this comes from someone that sucks at video games.  I don't think it's even possible to lose at Hogan's Alley or Duck Hunt unless you're simply fatigued or quit trying.

Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 27, 2018, 02:17:40 pm
Heh, try playing Duck hunt with a wiimote. Now that's hard.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 27, 2018, 02:41:12 pm
As expected, original, unmodified zapper does not work.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 27, 2018, 11:14:21 pm
NES went full blinky today. I had to disable the lockout chip, but now it appears to be working well again.

Vs. Duck Hunt doesn't work well. I have a version hacked for the NES that I was able to further hack with the LCD mod.

Hogan's alley and Wild Gunman work perfectly so far.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on December 27, 2018, 11:51:23 pm
The problem with the NES zapper games is they're piss easy, and this comes from someone that sucks at video games.  I don't think it's even possible to lose at Hogan's Alley or Duck Hunt unless you're simply fatigued or quit trying.

I remember To The Earth being a more difficult game than the rest of the NES light gunners. Though I could have my nostalgia glasses on.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 28, 2018, 12:27:54 am
To the Earth is too hard and not really all that fun.

Barker Bill's Trick shooting works well for window pains mode and not so well for flying saucers or balloons.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: pbj on December 28, 2018, 10:41:58 am
I've never even heard of either of those games.   :lol
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Titchgamer on December 28, 2018, 10:50:18 am
This thread just makes me sad I cant play NES anymore :(

I got a new CRT a few months back and no matter what I do it will not display the NES in colour!

I have every other console working great via SCART RGB but of course the NES cant do RGB without some serious modíin and my TV just will not accept anything else.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: MaseMan on December 28, 2018, 01:46:32 pm
Does this work with plasmas and LEDs, or literally only LCD displays?
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on December 28, 2018, 02:47:20 pm
I think potentially it will work with any type of flatscreen TV. Essentially, it's a hack enabling a variable delay to sync up the lightgun sensor with the screen flash. As I understand it, the OG Zapper needs a brighter target than your typical flatscreen can produce, but some 3rd party guns don't have the light filter and work out of the box.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on December 28, 2018, 03:19:56 pm
I've never even heard of either of those games.   :lol
Yeah thereís more lightgun nes games than just Duck Hunt and Hoganís Alley. Problem is the mainstream doesnít know about them.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Osirus23 on December 28, 2018, 10:43:47 pm
I've never even heard of either of those games.   :lol
Yeah thereís more lightgun nes games than just Duck Hunt and Hoganís Alley. Problem is the mainstream doesnít know about them.

Bayou Billy!
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 07, 2019, 09:28:43 am
Hyperkin will release a LCD zapper gun for use with OG carts and consoles later this year. Apparently, they will debut at CES. It's not clear how it will work, but it seems to have a separate connection to the flatscreen, maybe to calculate delay?
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: ark_ader on January 07, 2019, 01:02:05 pm
This thread just makes me sad I cant play NES anymore :(

I got a new CRT a few months back and no matter what I do it will not display the NES in colour!

I have every other console working great via SCART RGB but of course the NES cant do RGB without some serious modíin and my TV just will not accept anything else.

Look on ebay for a Kworld 1440.  That will get your NES working.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Titchgamer on January 07, 2019, 01:16:49 pm
This thread just makes me sad I cant play NES anymore :(

I got a new CRT a few months back and no matter what I do it will not display the NES in colour!

I have every other console working great via SCART RGB but of course the NES cant do RGB without some serious modíin and my TV just will not accept anything else.

Look on ebay for a Kworld 1440.  That will get your NES working.

Got some more info or a link Ark?
My google fu brings up a TV box??
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Howard_Casto on January 07, 2019, 01:30:43 pm
Hyperkin will release a LCD zapper gun for use with OG carts and consoles later this year. Apparently, they will debut at CES. It's not clear how it will work, but it seems to have a separate connection to the flatscreen, maybe to calculate delay?

I'm trying to wrap my head around that and I don't see how that could possibly work without some memory editing on the cart.  It isn't like a traditional light gun with a generic dot by dot line crawl that can be generated with a bit of electronics... it physically draws a box around each target in order.  How could it know anything about where the boxes are, ect?
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 07, 2019, 02:17:43 pm
Hyperkin

(https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif)
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 07, 2019, 02:23:26 pm
Hyperkin

(https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif)

Heh, up til now, the only thing of theirs that I've even contemplated getting was their SNES optical mouse. Unfortunately, there aren't enough games that support it. Not to mention the ergonomics look completely off.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 07, 2019, 02:26:32 pm
Hyperkin will release a LCD zapper gun for use with OG carts and consoles later this year. Apparently, they will debut at CES. It's not clear how it will work, but it seems to have a separate connection to the flatscreen, maybe to calculate delay?

I'm trying to wrap my head around that and I don't see how that could possibly work without some memory editing on the cart.  It isn't like a traditional light gun with a generic dot by dot line crawl that can be generated with a bit of electronics... it physically draws a box around each target in order.  How could it know anything about where the boxes are, ect?

I wouldn't think too hard about it. I have pretty much no idea how it could work, just spitballing.  :dunno

CES starts tomorrow, so maybe we'll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 07, 2019, 02:43:59 pm
Heh, up til now, the only thing of theirs that I've even contemplated getting was their SNES optical mouse. Unfortunately, there aren't enough games that support it. Not to mention the ergonomics look completely off.
What's the number of "enough" for you?  I ask because i was really surprised how many games on the SNES that has mouse support after I looked into it.  There are at least 6 games I now use the SNES mouse for, outside of the standard Mario Paint: Arkanoid: Doh it Again, Lemmings, Populus, Cannon Fodder, Terminator 2, Vegas Stakes.   

There are actually quite a few games that can use the mouse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_Mouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_NES_Mouse)

But not all on the list make good use of it.
Here's a video I found that sums up what are the games that really make good use of the SNES Mouse (as well as further solidifies my point that not everyone should be filmed on video... yikes! :lol)

Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYBqJ1lukEU#)
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 07, 2019, 03:18:55 pm
Not really interested in ports since I have dual Turbo Twist spinners, a trackball and a normal pc mouse right by my consoles. Do any of those ports like Arkanoid, Lemmings, T2, have any reason to play if you have access to the originals?

I could see trying King Arthur's World, Tin Star, and of course Mario Paint on original hardware.

Thanks for the link to the video.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 07, 2019, 03:41:57 pm
Not really interested in ports since I have dual Turbo Twist spinners, a trackball and a normal pc mouse right by my consoles. Do any of those ports like Arkanoid, Lemmings, T2, have any reason to play if you have access to the originals?

I could see trying King Arthur's World, Tin Star, and of course Mario Paint on original hardware.

Thanks for the link to the video.
Well actually Arkanoid isn't a port, it's a exclusive SNES sequel to the original Arkanoid. Chronologically, it supposed to take place 5 years after the original Arkanoid. I don't know where Revenge of Doh fits in, but my guess is RoD is more of an updated version of Arkanoid rather than being a conical sequel. Similar to how Raiden DX is an updated version of Raiden II.   Or 1943:Kai is an updated to 1943:Battle of Midway.

Also, while Lemmings 1 is a port, I believe Lemmings 2:The Tribes was originally developed for SNES, and then ported to the other systems.

LOL and if you have access to T2: The Arcade Game, with the guns, then by all means there definitely isn't a point of playing the SNES version. :lol

Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: pbj on January 07, 2019, 04:22:57 pm
Vegas Stakes supports the SNES mouse... I'll be damned. 
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 07, 2019, 06:09:27 pm
Yup! I was pleasantly surprised about that too. Great candidate for mouse control IMO.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: pbj on January 07, 2019, 08:26:27 pm
I put that game on every S/NES classic I hacked. Surprisingly good, my uncle has been playing it since release...

 :cheers:
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 07, 2019, 08:34:33 pm
Now you've got me reconsidering an SNES mouse.  :cheers:
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 07, 2019, 09:08:49 pm
Now you've got me reconsidering an SNES mouse.  :cheers:
The question remains, original SNES mouse, or Hypercrap mouse?
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: Osirus23 on January 08, 2019, 10:54:36 am
Does this work with plasmas and LEDs, or literally only LCD displays?

Don't know what difference it would make. The only issue here is compensating for input lag.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 08, 2019, 11:54:34 am
Now you've got me reconsidering an SNES mouse.  :cheers:
The question remains, original SNES mouse, or Hypercrap mouse?

I don't typically do ebay/, but I do like to browse used game shops. However, I've only seen an OG Snes mouse once. *Edit* Looks like I can get one for around $20 shipped on Amazon.

I've seen a few reviews of the hyperkin mouse and it seems fine, but maybe not quite as good as the original (one reviewer said "too precise"). *Edit* Several reviewers on Amazon report jittery behavior on Arkanoid, likely because of the higher resolution.

So basically, I'm going to wait and see. *Edit* Looks like I will skip the Hypercrap, even though I dislike ball mice, too many bad memories.  :banghead:

More info on the Hyper Blaster HD: https://kotaku.com/soon-youll-be-able-to-play-duck-hunt-on-modern-tvs-1831548013

"The Hyper Blaster HD, being demonstrated this week at CES in Las Vegas, uses a special HD adapter to sync its sensor with the television it is attached to, making the old black-and-white screen trick work once more."
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 08, 2019, 04:07:43 pm
The Hyper Blaster HD only works for Duck Hunt so far. That's disappointing.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: opt2not on January 08, 2019, 04:15:22 pm
The Hyper Blaster HD only works for Duck Hunt so far. That's disappointing.

Yup. This is exactly why that Modern Mallard KS failed (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/metsasta/modern-mallard).  People want more than just one lightgun game which, quite frankly, isn't that great.

In fact, I wonder if Hyperkin approached the Modern Mallard guy for the Hyper Blaster.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: pbj on January 09, 2019, 01:40:40 am
I'd bet money they did. Way too coincidental.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 10, 2019, 12:19:06 pm
Just saw on Hyperkin's FB page that they are "working directly with NESLCDMod.com."

Still not sure what the adapter box is for, though. *Edit* It looks like the "adapter" is actually a game genie style piece that attaches between your cart and the console. I guess that this device just patches the ROM using NESLCDMod's code.
Title: Re: NES LCD mod - ROM mods to play zapper games on flatscreen w/OG hardware
Post by: KenToad on January 10, 2019, 03:57:51 pm
I just hooked up my Retrotink 2x and, as advertised, it seems to have virtually eliminated lag. I used to get around 8.5 to 9.5 on the auto calibration screen and now I consistently get between 3.5 and 4.5 across several games. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers mean, but I can now play Duck Hunt Vs. and some of the other modes on Barker Bill.

Clay shooting on Duck Hunt and Duck Hunt VS. doesn't seem to be perfect, but I am getting more accurate results from them, as well.

I've noticed an overall less muddy appearance with my retro consoles. I had a lot of trouble with N64 especially through composite on my 1080p flat screen, such as dark levels in Bond being virtually unplayable. But now they are back to nearly as good as on a CRT.

All my retro consoles are running composite through a switcher.