The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: griffindodd on February 26, 2013, 11:27:53 pm

Title: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on February 26, 2013, 11:27:53 pm
Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table

Build Plan
A Wide body VPin cabinet and vertical MAME monster with video projection side art, full color DMD, Marquees and App Based 'Smart' Backglass >:D

Concept Art
(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_mockup.jpg)

Different Game Looks
(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_kong_mockup.jpg)(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_addams_mockup.jpg)

Walk Through of 4-Screen Setup
Four screen vpin walk thru (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcSpcuZY9Mo#ws)


Specs

- Custom base and backbox
- Original Space Invaders Wide Body hardware, legs, coin doors, rails etc.
- 51" 1080p 600mhz Plasma Sunken Play Field for pinball and ridonkulous Mame Vertical Screen
- 32" LED Smart Backglass & Streaming Video Screen
- 29" Ultrawide 2.85:1 LCD for Color DMD & Mame Marquees
- Internal playfield RGB LED Light Strip with Strobe blocks
- External Backbox RGB LED Light Strip
- Illuminated topper with strobes
- Projected video side art
- Pinball Knocker
- 8 contactors for flipper, bumper and toy force feedback
- Shaker Vibration
- Gear motor
- Bob & mercury tilt switching
- 2.1 Sound
- Built-in 4/8 top switchable MagStik Plus
- RGB Player buttons
- Other stuff from uncontrollable feature creep

Here we go again folks :)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/27/a7atuzuh.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/27/u4y5y8ed.jpg)

More to come as we go.

Parts List

Cabinet
Junkyard 1980 Wide Body Space Invaders base with legs, coin door and rails.
Custom built backboard
Rear projection screen sides with first surface mirrors for projection
Rigid force feedback platform for contactors, kickers, shakers & gear drive
Tinted tempered glass for play field and backbox
2x 200mm Red Cooler Master MegaFlow 200 Case fans
1x 120mm Custom Messaging Fan
1x 120mm Blue LED Fan

Screens.
1x Samsung 51'' 1080p 600Hz Slim Plasma HDTV
1x Vizio Web Enabled 60hz 32" LED TV @ 1280x720
1x LG Ultrawide 29" 2.85:1 LCD Commercial Display @ 1366x480
2x Epson 2000 Lumen W410 LCD Projectors @ 1280x800

Computer
Intel Pentium G2020 Ivy Bridge 2.9GHz 55W Dual-Core
ASRock B75M-DGS LGA1155/ Intel B75 DDR3 SATA3 & USB3.0 PCI-E
G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1866
CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 430W ATX12V v2.3 PSU
Nvidia GTX 650 OC Kepler based Video Card
Iomega USB to VGA Display Adapter

VPin Lights & Mechanical.
Zebulon's flasher board  including resistors (16 output)
Zebulon's button/motor/contactor control board (16 output)
Zebulon's speed control board
Zebulon's laser cut acrylic mounting plate & assembly hardware and cables to connect an Ledwiz
Zebulon's Shaker & Gear motor board assembly
4x White 22 LED Emergency Strobe Panels
10x 3W RGB LEDs with aluminum heat sinks and prism lenses
Pinball knocker assembly
430W ATX power supply
8x 24V 12 ft/lb contactors
LEDWiz

Sound
Eagle Arion 2.1 Soundstage Speakers with Dual Subwoofers

Buttons & Sticks
4x Flipper leaf buttons
Magstik Plus Top Switchable 4/8 way stick
3x Ultimarc RGB Buttons for Shmups
ZD USB encoder
White Illuminated Start, Back & Screen Change Buttons
Big old Launch Button

Software
HyperSpin FE
HyperPin FE
Mame for Vertical Arcade Games
Visual Pinball
Future Pinball
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Nephasth on February 26, 2013, 11:29:38 pm
RIP SI
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 26, 2013, 11:34:29 pm
RIP SI

Aye I pulled this corpse from under a tarp by the dumpster of an amusements shop. $100 for the case, door, mechs and legs
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: yotsuya on February 26, 2013, 11:36:04 pm
No backbox? That shouldn't be hard to make, though.

Any theme ideas?
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 26, 2013, 11:39:57 pm
I'm hoping to come up with something generic enough that it compliments whatever pin is running. Let the game take the lead and have the cabinet hopefully just compliment. Either that or goes balls out TAF
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: PL1 on February 27, 2013, 02:28:07 am
The automated feature we discussed earlier would also work with a generic theme by changing the shape of the lid, but either way the coin mechs would probably be in the way.   :badmood:

Even if you remove the supports for the old backbox and hang the new one off the back of the main box, the 50" is probably going to be too long (~44" + bezel) to move the playfield far enough back for the joystick and buttons.

Another design consideration is providing air flow over the playfield to avoid heat buildup under the glass.

If you do use the Mot-Ion controller, keep in mind that it is rather succeptible to heat-related problems IIRC.


Scott
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 27, 2013, 09:30:10 am
Yeah not too sure about that automated thingy, I don't think I have a problem with the control panel being a fixed part of the overall aesthetic.

The interior dimensions of the cab are 26 5/8" wide by 50" length if you take the backbox support out of the equation, my screen is 26"x45" cased. If I'm really pushed for space then I will extend the cab itself forward 6-8 inches to accommodate the new addition, that will probably give me more latitude design-wise too, like all the best Hot-Rods we'll chop and stretch the chassis  :laugh:
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: yotsuya on February 27, 2013, 09:42:33 am
I guess I didn't read this correctly the first time. I thought it was just going to be a pin. Be interested to see your plans/production.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 27, 2013, 09:44:32 am
I guess I didn't read this correctly the first time. I thought it was just going to be a pin. Be interested to see your plans/production.

Yeah me too, this is definitely in the 'erm....it..SHOULD..work  :dunno ' kinda stage right now
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: PL1 on February 27, 2013, 04:39:11 pm
If I'm really pushed for space then I will extend the cab itself forward 6-8 inches to accommodate the new addition

I figured you'd extend the back like a z-back profile cab.

That would give you room for the MAME panel (yellow) because the playfield (blue) -- set too high in this diagram -- is slid to the back of the box and maybe a notch in the back wall to let the playfield pass through.

The DMD display (green), backglass (red), and flashers (white dots under DMD) are built into the backbox.

The 250mm and 120mm cooling fans and air deflector (orange) draw cool air up and pass it across the top/bottom playfield and out the sides.

How far back do the coin mechs extend?


Scott
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 27, 2013, 04:59:39 pm
The coin mechs are big for sure, one of the bigger coin doors I have seen. thanks for the diagram, that could definitely work out too, there's a few ways to attack this.

But before I get into that I'm going after something WAYYYYYYY more ambitious with the side panels.

I want to use a technique that I have talked about in the past and experimented with and had good success, but now really bring it into play as a serious feature on this cabinet. I want to back project video onto the base cabinet sides, it will probably end up being more static images like marquees and side art, but I want the whole of the cabinet to visually change based on the game that is being played.

The base cabinet is 50" horizontal front to back. I have a short throw 16:10 projector that will throw a 51" wide (60" diag) image in focus from 24" away. the plan is to mount the projector under the base cabinet and project up to a 'V' made of two mirrors set at 45 degrees bouncing each half of the image onto the interior sides of the cabinet, essentially showing each half of the image on each side of the cab. The projected image would be the cabinet side art or marquee for the game being played (Maybe even the DMD if I can pull it off). Obviously each half of the projected image would have it's own art rotated and mirrored to show correctly through the rear projection side panels on the cabinet.

Hard to explain but something like....

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/28/u3a5aber.jpg)
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: thatpurplestuff on February 27, 2013, 05:22:11 pm
If you can pull off that mirror concept, you'll be a God amongst men.  Sounds very cool!
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Gamester on February 27, 2013, 07:23:35 pm
Interesting concept.  What type of material do you plan to rear project the image on?
Title: Re: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 27, 2013, 07:40:31 pm
Interesting concept.  What type of material do you plan to rear project the image on?

Gray spandex behind acrylic

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Gamester on February 27, 2013, 07:51:14 pm
Gray spandex behind acrylic

Intriguing.  Definitely looking forward to seeing this in action.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: drventure on February 27, 2013, 07:53:32 pm
If you can pull off that mirror concept, you'll be a God amongst men.  Sounds very cool!

+1 to that. You might also consider a partial/full mirror arrangement. That way you could use the entire image. Google partial mirror to see examples.

But it might get $$$.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Le Chuck on February 27, 2013, 07:55:48 pm
Did somebody say spandex?  I was told there would be spandex. 
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: yotsuya on February 27, 2013, 08:02:40 pm
Did somebody say spandex?  I was told there would be spandex.

(http://blog.favo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DLR.jpg)

There's a theme idea for the pin, as well!
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: rablack97 on February 27, 2013, 09:19:01 pm
Did somebody say spandex?  I was told there would be spandex. 

 :stupid

 >:D

In the words of that weird Jennifer person, that speaks in 3rd, 1st person, Rablack97 has left the thread.....

Moments later.......

Wait I take that back, damn chuck you got some skills, just saw your trainer thread......... :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

You get immunity today only.....24 hours, and back to normal.....

Oh yeah.....Griff pinball marquee trash bin thingy project....keep up the good work.....see if you can find a Sports Illustrated Pinball game and flash hot models on the sides of this thing....how bout that.....

Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: PL1 on February 27, 2013, 11:25:33 pm
I know everybody's getting excited about projectors, mirrors, and spandex, but here's another thought for you.

Sides covered with large sheets of Graylite 31.

2x2 video wall (http://www.amazon.com/IEI-VWBOX-HDMI--122-solution-supported/dp/B0073HF2W4/) split so the top two are on one side and the bottom two are on the other.   >:D
(http://www.premiervisualsystems.com/images/products/detail/P402TMX4D.png)
Alternate method less likely to land Griff in the poor house or divorce court -- 2nd computer with a 2-monitor setup and video splitters feeding the monitors on the other side.   ;D


Scott
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 27, 2013, 11:52:59 pm
Lol. Actually this is looking quite cheap so far. The projector is a refurb from Epson for $199 with free shipping and the spandex is actually moleskin spandex at a whopping $12 for 60"x1yard.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: rablack97 on February 28, 2013, 12:01:55 am
Whata all this talk about money, you just built a full arcade,bought a house, built a mini arcade, restoring a paperboy, now this...

You and broke are not related.....spare no expense.....cheap sucks ass..... :cheers:
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 12:03:56 am
Whata all this talk about money, you just built a full arcade,bought a house, built a mini arcade, restoring a paperboy, now this...

*Didn't buy a house - fell through
*Sold my mini arcade to pay for this one
*Sold everything in my closet to pay for this one
*Sell my body for power tools
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: PL1 on February 28, 2013, 12:12:19 am
Lol. Actually this is looking quite cheap so far.

The poor house/divorce court comment was related to the video wall (http://www.amazon.com/IEI-VWBOX-HDMI--122-solution-supported/dp/B0073HF2W4/) link.

I linked the "inexpensive" one.  :o


Scott
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 12:20:48 am
Ok so I asked Howard about this over on the Mame Hooker thread but lend me your brains for this issue.

I'm going to need a new function to display artwork files based on the following criteria...

- The game is being viewed in the menu in Hyperpin
- The game is being played in either Visual Pinball or Future Pinball

How do I go about calling my art file to get it displayed on my 4th monitor (USB to VGA) which is the projector.

Example art layout....

(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/example_art.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 11:03:26 am
Did somebody say spandex?  I was told there would be spandex.

Scary thing is I had to register for an account at 'Spandex World' to order :-\

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: ChadTower on February 28, 2013, 11:40:23 am

You're going to need a gap between the images.  That gap will end up being something like 2x(width of mirror + gap between mirrors).  The only way to avoid that will be perfectly cut angled edges on the mirror and seeing as how we're talking glass here that ain't happening on a budget.

Interesting concept and I'm looking forward to seeing how well it works.  I have some concerns about the throw distance between that projector and the near side of the mirrors.  Even with the short throw projector you're still only talking about a couple inches between the lens and those mirrors.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 12:46:43 pm
Hi Chad,

All valid points, I've also been considering these issues. The projector will live in a housing that exists below the base of the cabinet, so it will protrude quite far down to give extra throw, combine that with the distance between the mirrors and the sides of the cabinet so hopefully that will give me what I need for minimum focal length.

For the mirrors I plan on using first surface mirrored acrylic which will hopefully be easier to work with.

Lots of questions and hurdles ahead to deal with, but this is the part I love the most.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: mcseforsale on February 28, 2013, 12:49:38 pm
I'm in.  Watching with pregnant anticipation.

AJ
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Le Chuck on February 28, 2013, 02:58:56 pm
It's a shame there isn't a work around for the dingle-dangle (the projector body below the main body).  It'd be pretty tight to have that all under the playfield but inside the main housing.  I'm sure you'll come up with something. 
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 02:59:59 pm
It's a shame there isn't a work around for the dingle-dangle (the projector body below the main body).  It'd be pretty tight to have that all under the playfield but inside the main housing.  I'm sure you'll come up with something.

Yeah it's all in the angle of my dangle.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: mcseforsale on February 28, 2013, 03:19:55 pm
How big are the mirrors going to be?  How much real-estate will have to be empty/unubstructed for the projection?  Wondering if you could get away with some convex mirrors...

AJ
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 03:28:55 pm
How big are the mirrors going to be?  How much real-estate will have to be empty/unubstructed for the projection?  Wondering if you could get away with some convex mirrors...

AJ

it depends how close to the source they are - closer to the PJ = smaller but I have to watch for heat and also make sure my throw distance adds up to at least 24".

Once the projector arrives I can play with it properly and see just how close I can get it to the screen without losing focus. If I can get it closer than 24" then that will help a lot, but we'll just have to see.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 04:12:47 pm
An alternate approach that would involve adding a second projector but would simplify a lot of things, is to just stagger two PJ's along the bottom of the cab, bring the side down closer to the floor to create a super deep sided cabinet with 60" projected 16:10 images. This way I just mirror the screens with hardware and dont have to do all kinds of gymnastics with the images, it would also allow for some pretty insane use of video.

(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/projection2.jpg)

Looks like the only thing I may end up using off this cab is the legs and the coin door lol.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Gamester on February 28, 2013, 04:51:11 pm
What kind of lumens does your projector put out?  I'm wondering if this thing is going to be bright enough to not look totally washed out with ambient light in the room, or if this is going to end up being a night time only affair...
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 04:58:37 pm
What kind of lumens does your projector put out?  I'm wondering if this thing is going to be bright enough to not look totally washed out with ambient light in the room, or if this is going to end up being a night time only affair...

Its 2000 'Epson' lumens. Epson are known for under-quoting the light output of their projectors. Also because it's rear projection the screen quality in ambient light is much higher as long as the area behind the screen is quite dark - ie the inside of a closed cabinet.

A 48"x 30" image (16:10) = 10 sq/ft of image for 2000 lumens, so output is 200 footlambert. 200 footlambert is equal to 648 NIT. Most LCD/Plasma TV's are rated at way below that, typically commercial and daylight readable displays are rated above 600 NIT.

So, on paper, this will be bright enough to look more like a plasma/LCD screen even in considerable ambient light when using rear projection.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Gamester on February 28, 2013, 05:34:38 pm
Gotcha.  Sounds like plenty.  Wasn't sure if this was one of those little LED jobs which are pretty weak. 

What's your plan for ventilation?  That a front venting projector?  Maybe you can just post the model number so I stop annoying you with questions.  ;)
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on February 28, 2013, 05:36:52 pm
Maybe you can just post the model number so I stop annoying you with questions.  ;)

here you go bud...

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=63088266&category=Products (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&infoType=Overview&oid=63088266&category=Products)

Don't worry about the questions, I'll have plenty for you as I continue down this VPin route as you're already knee deep in yours   :P
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 10:02:59 am
Ordered all my gear from Zebulon this morning and updated the parts list in the OP.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: ChadTower on March 01, 2013, 10:56:51 am

I'm thinking if the projector were actually inside the cabinet he would have to do some serious heat venting.  Those things get HOT and are not designed to be used in an enclosure.  You can damage a projector like that just by unplugging it right after turning it off because the fan needs to run for another minute or two while the thing cools down.

Even if the projector were a cheapo LCD job it's working inside a small enclosed dark cabinet.  A real projector like this Epson is going to have to be turned way down to minimum brightness or it's going to totally wash that material out.

Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 11:37:41 am

I'm thinking if the projector were actually inside the cabinet he would have to do some serious heat venting.  Those things get HOT and are not designed to be used in an enclosure.  You can damage a projector like that just by unplugging it right after turning it off because the fan needs to run for another minute or two while the thing cools down.

Even if the projector were a cheapo LCD job it's working inside a small enclosed dark cabinet.  A real projector like this Epson is going to have to be turned way down to minimum brightness or it's going to totally wash that material out.

Yep i agree with all of your points. All of these issues above are going to factor into the cab design, they're not easy to solve, but for me that's the biggest attraction and what makes the job worth attacking. I've been using projectors at home for about 10 years now so I've had a decent amount of exposure to their quirks and issues.

Here's my initial ideas to address those issues.

Heat - The PJ's will be mounted under the cabinet in their own housings for soundproofing with positive airflow forced through via extra fans, this setup is very common in home theater where you need to kill all fan noise by enclosing the PJ but then have to deal with the heat.

Turning on and off - I'll have to use an IR blaster that sends the double-tap shutdown command to the PJ's when a shutdown is initiated from windows, this will allow them to go through their proper cooling procedure.

Screen Washout - Highly unlikely with rear projection, plus I am using a dark gray/silver material to project onto. The uniform micro weave of Spandex essentially creates microscopic cells that capture the light hitting them, so it's not the same as blasting light at a reflective white/silver screen.

Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: ChadTower on March 01, 2013, 12:01:52 pm

How are you going to display the cabinet?  In the middle of a room?  Most pins get put into places where the sides may as well be blank because they're covered up by other games or a wall.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 12:05:40 pm

How are you going to display the cabinet?  In the middle of a room?  Most pins get put into places where the sides may as well be blank because they're covered up by other games or a wall.

On an up-lit pedestal in the middle of a lake of fountains circled by a chorus of dancing unicorns.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 12:18:41 pm
Also on the subject of high heat displays, I think I'm going to look to plasma for the main playfield, zero angle of view issues, 0.2ms response time and 600mhz refresh rates pretty much scream gaming display over an LCD/LED. I'm looking at Panansonic as they pretty much dominate in picture quality and a u50 series can be found for around $600 or so.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: Ond on March 01, 2013, 12:35:40 pm

How are you going to display the cabinet?  In the middle of a room?  Most pins get put into places where the sides may as well be blank because they're covered up by other games or a wall.

On an up-lit pedestal in the middle of a lake of fountains circled by a chorus of dancing unicorns.

Dancing unicorns?!, awesome!  Here's a link that might prove useful Griff.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/472263971/playsurface-the-affordable-multi-touch-computing-t (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/472263971/playsurface-the-affordable-multi-touch-computing-t)

Someone else thinking about projectors in cabinets.  I was approached some time back to consider making a similar table for wargaming folk, apparently some dudes willing to part with serious $$$ for such a system.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: ChadTower on March 01, 2013, 12:49:07 pm
Someone else thinking about projectors in cabinets. 


It's not like it's a new idea.  He's building a projection television.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: floriske.nl on March 01, 2013, 01:28:10 pm
Really looking forward to seeing this build evolve! Looking at your previous projects I'm sure this will turn out awesome!

Also on the subject of high heat displays, I think I'm going to look to plasma for the main playfield, zero angle of view issues, 0.2ms response time and 600mhz refresh rates pretty much scream gaming display over an LCD/LED. I'm looking at Panansonic as they pretty much dominate in picture quality and a u50 series can be found for around $600 or so.

As a former audio visual technician I would advise you not to use a plasma for this. Why?  The risk of images burning in (it's called "burn" but actually it's the screen losing brightness faster on parts where a lot of light images are shown than where mostly dark parts are).

If you end up having a favorite cab to play you will also end up with a permanent image of it while playing other cabs. Exactly the reason why plasma is not used for gaming or pc monitors.

If you are stubborn and won't listen to me ;) make sure that directly after buying it you turn it on for approx 50-100 hours with a pure white screen on it. The biggest risk of burn in is within this period but beware it will always remain when a certain screen is shown a lot.

My advise: go the lcd route.

Good luck on the build!
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 01:28:32 pm
It's not like it's a new idea.  He's building a projection television.

Yep that's pretty much exactly what I'm trying to achieve here, I just hope I can do it in the space.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 01:35:36 pm
As a former audio visual technician I would advise you not to use a plasma for this. Why?  The risk of burning in. If you end up having a favorite cab to play you will also end up with a permanent image of it while playing other cabs. Exactly the reason why plasma is not used for gaming or pc monitors.

If you are stubborn and won't listen to me ;-) make sure that directly after buying it you turn it on for approx 50-100 hours with a pure white screen on it. The biggest risk of burn in less within this period but beware it will always remain when a certain screen is shown a lot.

My advise: go the lcd route.

Good luck on the build!

Yeah i had the same concerns so I went sniffing around the AVSForums and did my research. It seems the concerns of burn in are not really valid these days with modern plasma TVs, it's a misconception dragged on by experiences with older technologies. While I have no personal experience with this, I generally regard the users over at AVS as well educated on these matters. Combine that with that fact that non of my machines are left running for long periods of time (my wife is an energy nazi) I'm hoping that the advantages of Plasma will make sense in my use case.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 02:18:23 pm
I'm going for it! Just ordered a 51" Samsung PN51E530A3FXZA Plasma for $599 with free shipping.

It's got cased dimensions of 46.8" x 27.8" x 2.2" which means some decasing, some slot routing and a little luck may allow me to squeeze this beast into the 26.625" internals of the wide-body. It's going to have to sit all the way to the back of the cabinet leaving me about 3.5" clearance at the front which should be enough to accommodate the flipper button holes. I'm going to have to build the Mame control panel out in the front a little, but as it's only 1 player it can just step out in the middle of the cab.

Now where did I put that shoehorn and Vasoline?
Title: Re: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: yotsuya on March 01, 2013, 02:30:33 pm
Now where did I put that shoehorn and Vasoline?

Party in the Gaslamp? ;D
Title: Re: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 02:31:40 pm
Party in the Gaslamp? ;D

More likely Hillcrest  :o
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 02:36:05 pm
Here's a link that might prove useful Griff.

Thanks OND, interesting stuff, I can see I'm going to be spending a lot of time in the garage with mirrors and duct tape trying to work this projection cabinet out.
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 02:55:18 pm
Thinking over the Backbox, I really like the shape of the Revenge from Mars Bally cabinet.

(http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/a/738099/view/Aug2012106.jpg)

I'm not using any down firing screens but I do like the real estate it creates and could use it to house the computer hardware, this would put it up at a higher level to work on and keep it away from all the heat generated by the screens and projectors in the base box. I think this shape would work really well allowing my main play field to extend all the way to the back of the cabinet.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Malenko on March 01, 2013, 03:39:06 pm
they were shaped like the compensate for the CRT up top right?
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 03:43:10 pm
they were shaped like the compensate for the CRT up top right?

Yep but I really like the proportions, not as 'skinny' looking as the traditional backbox, looks like a Ms.Pacman and an Addam's Family had an Alien Baby  :laugh2:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 01, 2013, 04:10:12 pm

The CRT and the computer which is in a steel box about the size of your average desktop circa 1999.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on March 01, 2013, 09:09:38 pm
Griff. you should really do the sides in OLED flexible super thin screens.  THAT WOULD BE HOT!!

Jigenjuke
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Zebtheboardguy on March 01, 2013, 11:07:56 pm
I can't believe I registered just so I could read about spandex lined boxes....... :laugh2:

Ambitious project, I tossed around the active sideart idea for my 1st build but couldn't justify the cost. Good luck with it, it's sounding like a great plan.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 01, 2013, 11:18:59 pm
I've always loved the shape of those Pinball2000 cabs.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 01, 2013, 11:21:55 pm
Fun with displays.

Set the laptop screen as the top back glass. The ultra wide as the DMD and then mirrored the ultrawide onto the third monitor which represents the image that will be sent to the side projectors. If I write a ahk script that allows me to toggle the side projection mirroring through the other three screens including the play field then the sides of the cabinet could be marquee artwork, monster DMDs or even mirrors of the actual  play field itself. Endless wacky possibilities here

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/unu6uzeq.jpg)

An example in Mame mode. Ultra wide showing the game marquee. Top back glass monitor showing flyers and screens. The side projectors filling the screens with the Marquee art.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/02/ema4udat.jpg)

Also, I just measured out the interior of the cabinet again and it's looking really good, the actual interior width is 27" so I just need to get back 0.8" from the decasing to have the panel fit without the need for any slotting at all. Measuring al the way to the back of the box I have 50.25" interior inches, so even at 47" length cased, I still fall just short of the existing flipper holes and leafs, I have a feeling this panel and box were secretly made in heaven for each other 30 years apart  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 02, 2013, 12:33:43 am
I can't believe I registered just so I could read about spandex lined boxes....... :laugh2:

Ambitious project, I tossed around the active sideart idea for my 1st build but couldn't justify the cost. Good luck with it, it's sounding like a great plan.

LOL. Hey Zeb thanks for dropping in, welcome to the madness.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 02, 2013, 01:08:50 am
I still fall just short of the existing flipper holes and leafs

Wait, you're not planning to add one button per side for Upper Flipper/MagnaSave?  :whap 


Scott

Edit: Misunderstood quoted section from previous post.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 02, 2013, 01:24:32 am
Wait, you're not planning to add one button per side for Upper Flipper/MagnaSave?  :whap

I'll use two buttons per side but I'm not going all Franken-flipper on this thing with launch, save, spring, bounce, nudge, dribble, boink, extra ball, feather balls buttons. I want to use the original holes for the main flipper buttons and then maybe one other, I'm trying to keep as much of the original layout as possible while still accommodating everything I am trying to do.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 02, 2013, 02:22:05 am
I'll use two buttons per side
That'll cover regular flippers on one and upper flippers/MagnaSave on the other -- both inputs wired to one button.

You may also want to consider including a launch button on the front for tables like Jurassic Park that require timing on the launch.

I agree that you don't want to go all Franken-Flipper on this.

Worst case looks like 9 pinball buttons: 2 flippers per side, launch button, start button, and maybe 3 nudge buttons Left/Right/Up if the Mot-Ion nudge doesn't work right.

Not sure if nudging hard enough for the Mot-Ion accelerometers to register will cause problems with your projector bulbs.   :dunno

Adding the joystick and 3 MAME buttons requires 5 more inputs: P1B1 = Left MagnaSave = Left Control and P1B3 = Up Nudge = Space.


Scott
Title: Re: Widebody Retrofit: Project Something Something
Post by: floriske.nl on March 03, 2013, 06:10:38 am
As a former audio visual technician I would advise you not to use a plasma for this. Why?  The risk of burning in. If you end up having a favorite cab to play you will also end up with a permanent image of it while playing other cabs. Exactly the reason why plasma is not used for gaming or pc monitors.

If you are stubborn and won't listen to me ;-) make sure that directly after buying it you turn it on for approx 50-100 hours with a pure white screen on it. The biggest risk of burn in less within this period but beware it will always remain when a certain screen is shown a lot.

My advise: go the lcd route.

Good luck on the build!

Yeah i had the same concerns so I went sniffing around the AVSForums and did my research. It seems the concerns of burn in are not really valid these days with modern plasma TVs, it's a misconception dragged on by experiences with older technologies. While I have no personal experience with this, I generally regard the users over at AVS as well educated on these matters. Combine that with that fact that non of my machines are left running for long periods of time (my wife is an energy nazi) I'm hoping that the advantages of Plasma will make sense in my use case.

Ok, it's your call of course. I can imagine certain qualities of plasma make you go this route.

And yes the burn in risk is a lot lower compared to let's say ten years ago but it is still there. Just make sure you use the "white screen" trick to take away the biggest risk and don't play the same cab too often ;-)

Good luck on the build, progress is looking promising far!
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Mr Wilson on March 03, 2013, 08:37:31 am
awesome i love builds like this
we did you get your ultra wide from?
Ross
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 03, 2013, 08:42:30 am
awesome i love builds like this
we did you get your ultra wide from?
Ross

HI Ross.
There was a girl selling shopped pinball machines on Craig's List, I sent her an email asking if by any chance she had any wide body corpses, turns out she had 3 lying around, so I picked out the best one.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on March 03, 2013, 06:21:05 pm
Griff,

You're a cabinet making feind >:D.  Nice ideas on this project.  Will be watching.

Jigenjuke
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: HanoiBoi on March 03, 2013, 09:27:23 pm
Ambitious plans.  Best of luck.

With the projector, do you have plans on securing/tightening in a manner that will prevent the projected side images from shaking, when the machine is being violently 'nudged'?
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 03, 2013, 10:11:31 pm
Thanks guys. Yep the projectors will be isolated from vibration

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Brian74 on March 03, 2013, 11:15:12 pm
Hey griff, I was thinking and I remember seeing this guy have made a cocktail table. He used a projector for the display. http://www.rototron.info/MT/MT.php (http://www.rototron.info/MT/MT.php)

For the screen he used 1/4" acrylic that he sprayed with rear projection Screen Goo. http://www.goosystemsglobal.com/ (http://www.goosystemsglobal.com/)

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 04, 2013, 04:32:40 pm
One thing to consider if going for a P2K style backbox and your 51" playfield is how much the head may overhang and obscure the rear playfield.
This build  (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?13059-HyperPin-2125-Pinball-2000-style-*updated*) uses a honking great backbox screen for extra mame use, but with your proposed extra lengh will maybe ballance out visually.
I can remember someone did a cab a few years back with joys and a trackball also I think, although I can not find the link.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 04, 2013, 04:34:58 pm
One thing to consider if going for a P2K style backbox and your 51" playfield is how much the head may overhang and obscure the rear playfield.
This build  (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?13059-HyperPin-2125-Pinball-2000-style-*updated*) uses a honking great backbox screen for extra mame use, but with your proposed extra lengh will maybe ballance out visually.
I can remember someone did a cab a few years back with joys and a trackball also I think, although I can not find the link.
Good luck.

? (http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/29.html)    <-- Link?
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 04, 2013, 04:49:59 pm
One thing to consider if going for a P2K style backbox and your 51" playfield is how much the head may overhang and obscure the rear playfield.
This build  (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?13059-HyperPin-2125-Pinball-2000-style-*updated*) uses a honking great backbox screen for extra mame use, but with your proposed extra lengh will maybe ballance out visually.
I can remember someone did a cab a few years back with joys and a trackball also I think, although I can not find the link.
Good luck.

yeah I see what you are getting at. Although I'm planning on taking styling tips from the P2k cabs, I won't be copying it exactly as those two screens are going to be crazy big together, the box is going to be fun though as it is going to define the whole look of this cab and give it it's character. Until I see how the base cabinet works out with lighting though I'm going to wait on deciding the back box design. Who knows I may put the DMD screen all the way in the back at the very back of the play field but bring the Backglass forward.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 04, 2013, 04:54:58 pm
One thing to consider if going for a P2K style backbox and your 51" playfield is how much the head may overhang and obscure the rear playfield.
This build  (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?13059-HyperPin-2125-Pinball-2000-style-*updated*) uses a honking great backbox screen for extra mame use, but with your proposed extra lengh will maybe ballance out visually.
I can remember someone did a cab a few years back with joys and a trackball also I think, although I can not find the link.
Good luck.

? (http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/29.html)
Ok, to clarify most pinball 2000`s that have that type of backbox also have a shorter playfield, people building virtual ones often use a 37" playfield screen as oposed to a 46" being most common for a widebody.
My concern is that with griffs 51" main screen going so far back into the cab a P2K head may overhang the back and hide it unless its quite high or the player is not too tall.
This may be nonsence but thats how the dimentions look in my head.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 04, 2013, 05:12:28 pm
You got in there as I was replying griff :) .
Anyway what are you going to use for the mame controls a gamepad?, also this (http://emumovies.com/forums/index.php/topic/2145-software-marquee-magician-21/#entry11746) may help with displaying the marquee image.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 04, 2013, 05:14:12 pm
You got in there as I was replying griff :) .
Anyway what are you going to use for the mame controls a gamepad?, also this (http://emumovies.com/forums/index.php/topic/2145-software-marquee-magician-21/#entry11746) may help with displaying the marquee image.

Mame controls will be a full control panel build into the top of the play field above the coin door, probably use an iPac or something along those lines.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 04, 2013, 05:37:05 pm
You got in there as I was replying griff :) .
Anyway what are you going to use for the mame controls a gamepad?, also this (http://emumovies.com/forums/index.php/topic/2145-software-marquee-magician-21/#entry11746) may help with displaying the marquee image.

Mame controls will be a full control panel build into the top of the play field above the coin door, probably use an iPac or something along those lines.

Are you planning to make it detachable/fold out/hidden? Just wondering.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 04, 2013, 05:39:08 pm
Are you planning to make it detachable/fold out/hidden? Just wondering.

No Idea, probably just fixed in place as part of the whole build
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 04, 2013, 06:42:27 pm
The guy who built the cab in my earlier link was talking about having a separate pedestal type control panel for mame, it could span over the front of the cab, not sure if it got built though.
Wish I could find that other build where the guy had a trackball and joys by the lock bar -  was a long while back though maybe 2009/10
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 04, 2013, 06:49:08 pm
the guy had a trackball and joys by the lock bar

Probably what I am going to build
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 04, 2013, 07:04:43 pm
Ok think te blue one is the one I remember.
Glad I found it, now must sleep :) .
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 05, 2013, 11:58:59 am
I finally got Future Pinball working on the Revolution cab last night. Until now I was just using Visual Pinball as it hadn't given me any problems and I was happy enough with the way it looked and worked. But with the full-size table on the horizon I wanted to check out FP as so many people had said that it looks so much better.

So after a bunch of dicking around with preferences for video and updating drivers I finally got a few tables working and they really do look very cool. I played SlamT1lt's mod of Addams Family which was extremely impressive with all the sound and graphics upgrades, it's a super fun experience to play. Still I'm not overly happy with some of the graphics issues, a lot of artifacting and glitches which force me to turn off some of the best visual features. I did find FP much easier to play than VP for the Addams Family table, the ball seemed bigger, easier to hit.

Who knows, maybe by the time this build is ready to play Farsight may have Pinball Arcade released in the Windows 8 store and I can give that a try.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 05, 2013, 01:22:36 pm
For the screen he used 1/4" acrylic that he sprayed with rear projection Screen Goo.


Now THAT is what I call a saturday night.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 05, 2013, 02:42:02 pm
Updated the OP parts list, pretty much everything is ordered and shipping or already arrived, now all I have to do is find a spare 200 man hours  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Seith on March 05, 2013, 02:59:13 pm
Updated the OP parts list, pretty much everything is ordered and shipping or already arrived, now all I have to do is find a spare 200 man hours  :dizzy:

Congrats!  This looks pretty promising.  I'd like to eventually build a virtual pin, but I don't have the space for one currently.  Basement renovations come first, and before that is the wedding... ducks in a row, I guess.

As always, watching and following along.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 05, 2013, 09:39:06 pm
What's the best thing to make a rigid 60 rear projection screen from?

A 60" REAR PROJECTION SCREEN!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/06/jume8azy.jpg)

Some guy on Craig's list was dumping a perfectly good 60" Sony rear projection TV so I gave him a few bucks to run away with the screen surface and the huge first surface mirror and mounting brackets.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/06/bu4evu4y.jpg)

Can't wait for those projectors to arrive so I can start experimenting :o

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 06, 2013, 10:02:51 am

Interesting idea.  I have a 60" Sony WEGA RPTV.  Might even be the same one from the looks of that screen.

Do you happen to have the rest of the TV?  I'll buy the optical block off of you.  :)  Mine needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 06, 2013, 10:14:00 am
No but the guy still has it I could put you in touch with him. Pm me your email and phone number I'll pass it on
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 06, 2013, 10:16:06 am
What's the best thing to make a rigid 60 rear projection screen from?

A 60" REAR PROJECTION SCREEN!

Some guy on Craig's list was dumping a perfectly good 60" Sony rear projection TV so I gave him a few bucks to run away with the screen surface and the huge first surface mirror and mounting brackets.

You can make an awesome gaming costume from the extra spandex you now own...  :laugh:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 06, 2013, 10:49:32 am
You can make an awesome gaming costume from the extra spandex you now own...  :laugh: :cheers:


That would be quite a rear projection setup.

(http://www.outdoorbasecamp.com/forum/images/smilies/peace.gif)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 06, 2013, 12:23:32 pm
You can make an awesome gaming costume from the extra spandex you now own...  :laugh:  :cheers:

Oh believe me buddy, I'll find a use for it, oh yes, and I'll post pictures, and you'll cry and run away  >:D
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 06, 2013, 12:25:07 pm
You can make an awesome gaming costume from the extra spandex you now own...  :laugh:  :cheers:

Oh believe me buddy, I'll find a use for it, oh yes, and I'll post pictures, and you'll cry and run away  >:D

I vote this one:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8021/7578256562_8bdcc54a4e_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 06, 2013, 12:34:38 pm
Man I'll have to grow my hair out and do a lot of coke first
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: dandro on March 06, 2013, 12:39:38 pm
the boots! LOL  :o
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: jmike on March 06, 2013, 01:31:00 pm
No longer subscribed.

 :puke
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 06, 2013, 02:48:47 pm
Ok peeps, back on track with this thread.

The projectors arrive today so I'll have a better idea of exactly how things are going to look in a day or two.

As for the cabinet, I have concerns about the structural rigidity of the wood when I start carving hug holes in the side of it to project through. I think I am going to have to build out a new cabinet with different materials. Also doing it this way allows me to add that extra area here and there to make my life easier and hopefully give the cabinet a much more custom look, more of a wide-body-low-body cab, it's starting to sound more and more like a hot-rod every day  ;D

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/07/5ahu2yte.jpg)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 06, 2013, 10:43:51 pm
Quick initial test of the projectors with the TV screen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEtmWQ-mojA
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 12:53:28 am
This 50" horizontal image is happening with the mirror 17" inside the cab, easy to do for one side but logistically problematic for two sides due to projection angles.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/07/7yjynyda.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/07/a5udyjab.jpg)

The frog tape is 36" above ground, the pinball cabinet will be 50" deep with at least 1" bezel around the projection area
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 01:36:24 am
Good news and meagh not awesome news

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/07/8u9e7u5y.jpg)

I can create this image with the mirror 14" inside the cab meaning I can get two back to back and do this on both sides. The Meagh news is that the projector housings have to stick out 5.5" from the sides of the cab on the floor. Not a complete deal killer, I can enclose them its just not ideal.

The upside though is full video sides to the cabinet and that is crazy balls awesome
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 07, 2013, 07:57:56 am
You are either a complete nutball or a Genius.  I haven't yet worked out which though.  Either way I just love some of the things you are willing to try and do. More often then not you pull it off as well  :notworthy: :notworthy:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 07, 2013, 08:52:59 am

That is certainly looking better than I thought it would.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 11:36:39 am
Lol I like the idea of nut ball genius like Doc Brown from Back to the Future.

Looks like I'm building a frame from scratch so I better get to it.

Gluing up monitor support on the top rails, using birch as I need some good rigidity
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/ybu5upap.jpg)

I loves me some pocket joints
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/7e8aduve.jpg)

Framing it up with the rails routed for the sloping glass
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/ury3erag.jpg)

Fan board for the back. I like to use forstner bits for countersinking none beveled screws
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/ydesudeq.jpg)


Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: BadMouth on March 07, 2013, 11:45:33 am
I hadn't thought about old projection TVs as a source for front surface mirrors.
What are the rough dimensions of it?
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 07, 2013, 02:01:32 pm

I'll be interested in seeing what condition that mirror is in.  I've pulled a few Sony WEGA RPTVs apart that I got off Freecycle and the mirrors tend to be heat damaged.  The projector, too, that's why most of that line of TV failed.  The 60" I have for myself is heat damaged making the colors yellowy and there are a lot of stuck on blue pixels.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 04:55:50 pm
This just arrived, :P
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/sytuge5u.jpg)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 06:14:19 pm
Baby's got back & she goes low low low low low lowwwwww

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/esupu7yq.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/esajudes.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/9e7enybu.jpg)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 08:54:10 pm
@ Boudmouth & Chad. The mirror was in excellent condition no flaking or discoloration. Its about 40" wide by about 18 high
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 07, 2013, 10:29:50 pm
Couldn't wait, had to decase the screen, this is like no plasma I have ever seen, can you say thin?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/anujydar.jpg)

Fits like a glove
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/udehynus.jpg)

Nice mounting brackets underneath I can use for bracing
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/e7y8ubaj.jpg)
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 12:11:35 am
More plasma porn,
Insane viewing angles
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/3ejebegy.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/pysyba7a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/pusa5ysy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/a5enehem.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/08/symy8a6a.jpg)

Also noticed so far after half an hour of operation the screen is cold to the touch. No heat issues
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 08, 2013, 11:28:36 am

Hell!  Who cares about sideart when the playfield looks like THAT?   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 11:36:28 am
lol yeah I guess you are right, the blacks are really deep, another nice advantage of plasma. It has pixel shifting and some other anti-burn features so hopefully they will do their job well enough, but it sounds like heat, burn and weight are all issues of yesteryear's plasma screens. The panel itself is only 0.5" thick and at 51" screen size weighs 40lbs. Overall I am quiet amazed at how far this tech has come.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: floriske.nl on March 08, 2013, 12:32:34 pm
Looking great! The general design is really starting to show.  :applaud:

About the plasma (yeah i know, AGAIN  ;) but I'd hate to see you disappointed).Pixel shifting on static images only results in a blurred edge of the burn in pattern. Since the image only shifts a few px it only helps on parts/lines smaller than those few pixels.

And once again: yes burn in risk is a lot less these days but still there. Especially in the first part of it's life span. So do the few days full white screen trick just to be sure to get rid of the biggest risk!

I've been a pro av technician for 6,5 years (3,5 on rental and 3 on sales and installation) and I've seen a lot of plasmas gone to waste, even newer ones.
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 12:33:58 pm
So do the few days full white screen trick just to be sure to get rid of the biggest risk!
I've been a pro av technician for 6,5 years (3,5 on rental and 3 on sales and installation) and I've seen a lot of plasmas gone to waste, even newer ones.

Awesome man, i will definitely do that, could you explain how to do it so I get it right? Thanks  :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 01:22:18 pm
Looking for some opinions here.

I'm kinda torn as to whether I should leave the sides super deep so they can basically be huge 16:9 screens and I can throw pretty much anything on them.

or

Reduce the side height, taper in the projection structure and black it out as much as possible to pull your eye away from it and have the cabinet look more like a tradition pinball machine.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/09/8uqysy4u.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 08, 2013, 01:29:59 pm
Bigger box, IMO.   That thing looks like an udder.

Just paint the bottom half of the box flat black.  It'll have the same effect and be easier to reinforce.

AJ
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 01:31:13 pm
That thing looks like an udder.

Lol I was thinking the same thing  :laugh2:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: thatpurplestuff on March 08, 2013, 01:53:08 pm
Yeah I agree I'd go with the bigger box... the boxes jutting out of the sides would distract from the awesomeness a bit.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 01:59:41 pm
Yep I think you guys are right, the big booty cab is much easier to work worth and more versatile as I have all the screen area to play with. I guess technically i could project the whole profile of the pinball machine side on it rather than just the art - all kinds of interesting opportunities when your cab sides are digitally generated.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 08, 2013, 02:01:36 pm
I'd paint it flat black, keep it in a darkened room and let the projector provide ALL of the side art.  Shine up those legs and there you go.

AJ
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 02:03:16 pm
Shine up those legs and there you go.

Yeah the legs are giving me issues now too as they angle out, they aren't straight up and down, so they look a bit odd as they moves away from the cab at the boom
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 08, 2013, 02:13:03 pm

That udder would be a super liability when moving the cabinet.  Make it a deep box for safety reasons.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 02:21:40 pm
Yeah I'm going to make the projection unit a separate piece for that same reason, also to isolate it from vibrations of nudging etc.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 04:12:31 pm
The design is starting to gel now. Still working out what to do with the back box sides, I'm thinking of using some of the tricks from the Little Ms. Pac-Man speaker grills, a generic design with RGB light behind that could change to match the game artwork. Speakers will fire down onto the glass from under the back box.

(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_mockup.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: thatpurplestuff on March 08, 2013, 04:24:26 pm
OH HELL YEAH.

I love the look of that design... I'm partial to the larger than life style cabs, and that my good sir is very slick looking.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 08, 2013, 04:26:22 pm
Where are the flipper buttons going to go?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 04:26:54 pm
Where are the flipper buttons going to go?

Still working on the art, I'll put them in soon
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 08, 2013, 04:45:46 pm
I can't get over the legs.  They don't look right to me, maybe short ones would look better.  It just looks off to have the body extend that far down from where the legs connect.  Like an after thought. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 04:46:45 pm
I can't get over the legs.  They don't look right to me, maybe short ones would look better.  It just looks off to have the body extend that far down from where the legs connect.  Like an after thought.

Yep something is going to need to be done with them
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 08, 2013, 04:48:59 pm
Maybe make those legs go all the way up.  You'd have to fab up new ones of course but they do a nice job of breaking up the profile.  You'll find the answer I have no doubt. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 06:07:21 pm
Updated with pretty feet and some chrome trim mimicking the shape of classic legs
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: CoryBee on March 08, 2013, 06:34:26 pm
Haha, bringin' back the cupholders.

(http://i.imgflip.com/lhwe.gif)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 06:35:25 pm
 >:D

TAF Mockup

(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_addams_mockup.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 08, 2013, 06:54:06 pm
Not feeling the arcade part.  Think how that thing will feel sitting next to the revolution...pinball suicide.

AJ
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 06:59:18 pm
 >:D

DK Mockup

(http://www.kinemote.net/pinball/pin_kong_mockup.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 08, 2013, 07:04:12 pm

That looks awesome.  Not digging the can holders.  Seems like a crime to build something that awesome and then put something on the CP to hold a cheap beer can.   :cheers:

Why an old Bally coin door on a Pin2k?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 07:06:05 pm
Why an old Bally coin door on a Pin2k?

Identity Crisis - it's al in the name lol  ;D. As for the cupholders, if you've seen any of my other builds, I always threaten to put cup holders in them, it's a thing  :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 08, 2013, 07:27:24 pm
ok the arcade part.... :whap

the cupholders :whap

It seems your reversing what you did with Revolution...

Arcade cab with pinball capabilities, now its pinball with arcade capabilities....

I like the first idea, w/o the arcade piece....
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 07:29:38 pm
It always had an arcade piece
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 08, 2013, 07:46:17 pm
ok the arcade part.... :whap

the cupholders :whap

It seems your reversing what you did with Revolution...

Arcade cab with pinball capabilities, now its pinball with arcade capabilities....

I like the first idea, w/o the arcade piece....

 :bat

Why do you have to piss in the man's Cheerios? He's trying something new, something that has never been attempted before. If you don't try, you have no chance at innovation. Don't you realize how awesome it will be to play some shmups on that big boy? You know what's better than playing shmups on a pinball table? That's right, drinking beer while playing shmups on a pinball table... even better, two at the same time. Just let the man create this metamorphic gaming device and quit raining on his parade, I don't understand where all the negativity on this forum is coming from lately. Sit back and watch the innovation unfold. :cheers:

One question griffman, will you be displaying side art on the sides when this is finished, or backglasses like what is in your mockup?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 08, 2013, 07:51:49 pm
I like the compromise on the legs, Griff. Visually, it works better than using real legs.
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 08:03:28 pm
I like the compromise on the legs, Griff. Visually, it works better than using real legs.

Yeah I think its better.

Neph. If I can work out the software to send specific art files for the pinball then I could send pinball side art, otherwise I just hardware mirror the DMD or back glass. If I can get hyperpin to send side art which changes with the tables that would be awesome
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 08, 2013, 08:14:12 pm
Neph. If I can work out the software to send specific art files for the pinball then I could send pinball side art, otherwise I just hardware mirror the DMD or back glass. If I can get hyperpin to send side art which changes with the tables that would be awesome

Might be able to with HS 2.0.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 08, 2013, 08:15:44 pm
Might be able to with HS 2.0.

Is it released ?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: jmike on March 08, 2013, 08:23:05 pm
That looks awesome!!!!
    :notworthy:   :notworthy:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: CoryBee on March 08, 2013, 08:33:34 pm
Just a thought. Would be nice if you had the screen prop itself up automatically when playing the arcade games. It would be a bit more in your face awesomeness instead of a cocktail feel.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 08, 2013, 08:39:34 pm
Might be able to with HS 2.0.

Is it released ?

Nope. But hopefully 2013 is the year...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 08, 2013, 09:15:01 pm
im not pissing on his parade.........just the concept alone is great....

when i said arcade i meant the controls......its that damn j-stik, it looks like a sore thumb....

its not negativity, its called constructive criticism, griff takes what he wants from it........

if everybody just did this  :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

then what fun would the thread be, he does what he wants anyway, so i can say what i wanna say.....

whats the point of posting if you didnt want folks opinion, if we are all suppose to sit back and watch, reply would be taken off the forum....

this is from the Revolution Build......

Before I even get started I want to thank the following forum members for their support, posts, sharing of knowledge and inspiration:

Woodshop Flunky
Martyjn
Epyx
DNA Dan
Kalars123
TheShaner
RaBlack97
PL1
Ron310
TopJimmyCooks
Le Chuck

Where's your name at.......ohhhh theres' a shot....

griff ignore the referee........... :soapbox:

Luv u Neph :) :applaud:

 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 08, 2013, 09:57:10 pm
 :afro:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 12:07:24 am
Lol its like Jersey Shore in here. Neph I think we have already established you are my Spock, and Texas you're definitely Jordy. There's a lot of strong minded creative people here and we butt heads because we all have vision.

Mine's just the right one :-*
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 09, 2013, 12:12:31 am
Revolution is a work of art arcade.  This should be a work of art pin-cab.  I'm begging...please don't make this a 50" pacman arcade!!!

AJ
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 09, 2013, 12:14:22 am
Girls! You're all pretty!
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 12:18:18 am
Girls! You're all pretty!

Awwwwwww I feel purty now lil piggy
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 09, 2013, 12:18:39 am
 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: all around, bros!
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 09, 2013, 12:54:46 am
I'm a little concerned about the cupholders, too.

If you're nudging hard enough for it to register for pinball, you could be guilty of "alcohol abuse" a.k.a. spilling your beer.

IIRC, one guy got around that potential problem by building his nudge setup into a sliding lockdown bar so he only had to move the bar to nudge, not the whole cabinet.

I think the design used firm springs and skidplates to keep the bar centered in a framework (blue) that limits how far the actuator can move, a block of wood (tan) for an actuator, and microswitches on the left, right and back -- 2 wired in parallel on the left and right since must people will tend to favor one side or the other.

Roller arm switches would be even better than the nub-type shown in the diagram.

(http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2110710w345.jpg)


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 01:15:50 am
Omg Scott its going to take me a day just to absorb what you wrote. And I love your your techy illustrations
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 09, 2013, 01:22:55 am
Lol its like Jersey Shore in here. Neph I think we have already established you are my Spock, and Texas you're definitely Jordy. There's a lot of strong minded creative people here and we butt heads because we all have vision.

Mine's just the right one :-*

I love it when you talk dirty.....


I don't give a darn what you do, just keep the entertainment coming :cheers: :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 09, 2013, 06:26:44 am
Omg Scott its going to take me a day just to absorb what you wrote. And I love your your techy illustrations

Thanks, glad to hear the illustrations help clarify things.

Also, just remembered that up-nudge (space) is the same as Player 1, Button 3 so you'll need to choose between:
1. Isolate the joystick/buttons from moving with the rest of the lockdown bar
2. Remap the MAME default for P1B3 so pressing up on the joystick doesn't move the lockdown bar back and triggering an up-nudge which MAME will see as P1B3 being pushed.
3. All of the above


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: emphatic on March 09, 2013, 09:17:15 am
I always thought you weren't supposed to have a plasma on it's back like that, but I guess they've solved that now?  :dizzy:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: bearzilla333 on March 09, 2013, 11:09:31 am
WOW!!!!  :applaud:  This looks awesome!
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 09, 2013, 12:07:02 pm
I like the feet, but I feel like the legs are still a bit of a 'forced' nod to what this machine morphed from.  It's already blown past any notion that this is a 'normal' pinball machine.  Why not get rid of the fake leg trim stuff and just pimp the thing out with some kind of really cool decorative corner trim?

Just my $0.02...

Carry on.  This is really interesting stuff!   :cheers:
Title: Re: Pandora's Box: Mutant Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: floriske.nl on March 09, 2013, 12:24:29 pm
So do the few days full white screen trick just to be sure to get rid of the biggest risk!
I've been a pro av technician for 6,5 years (3,5 on rental and 3 on sales and installation) and I've seen a lot of plasmas gone to waste, even newer ones.

Awesome man, i will definitely do that, could you explain how to do it so I get it right? Thanks  :cheers:

Some professional screens have an option for this in the menu but for those that don't have this it's a simple as creating a blank PowerPoint slide with a white background, set it on full screen and be sure to turn off power saving and screensaver on the computer. Than Just let it light up your room for a few days ;) (we used to do 4 days on professional screens).

 Place the screen vertical as it's supposed to be instead of flat on it's back for optimal heat dissipation. Professional screens are intended for long continuous use, I have no idea how this relates to consumer versions. If you get the feeling the screen is getting too hot just turn it off, let it cool down and continue again.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 09, 2013, 12:47:14 pm

IMO liquids should be kept away from things like this.  Yeah, people want beer, but give them a shelf next to it for their beer.  Don't encourage people to put their beer on your games.  DON'T ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR BEER ON YOUR GAMES. 

If you give them a cupholder the beer will go on the glass.  Every time.  Followed not long after by a cigarette on the CP.  Followed not long after by an argument when you tell them to use the cupholder ("yeah but it isn't designed for ceremonial 64oz Fosters cans, mate").  Avoid the whole thing altogether by putting an end table next to it with 659 cup holders and ash trays.

Especially with the Pinball 2000 shape for some reason.  I cannot tell you how many times I've had to remind arcade collectors not to stack metal parts on my Pinball 2000 playfield glass.  And even they get pissy about it.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 12:53:12 pm
I guess Chad doesn't know the rules about cupholders in my build threads :))
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 01:04:35 pm
The 32" and the ultrawide 29" have virtually identical horizontal widths so they mate really well.
 
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/u9ubu8us.jpg)

Also I've decided to revert back to a more traditional back box design. I don't like how far this is drifting from the iconic pinball table look so I need to reign it back in a bit
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 09, 2013, 01:26:57 pm
Good call, Griff.

I've sure you've seen this one before, but I think this one has always been the best Visual Pin I've seen so far: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,98252.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,98252.0.html)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 09, 2013, 02:19:13 pm
I guess Chad doesn't know the rules about cupholders in my build threads :) )


I do know how people act in a house that isn't their own.  The rules won't stop people from being the animals they are.  Even people you would expect to respect the games often won't when it's someone else's house.   :-\
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 09, 2013, 02:23:17 pm
I think what Griffin is trying to tell you that he likes to throw them into the design, but he's not actually going to do it. :))
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 02:51:56 pm
Yeah this is better

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/renysyva.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 09, 2013, 04:56:25 pm
wait, you built that already??????


Chad,

People on the forum have mixed views on the cupholders, griff threatened to put cupholders on Revolution.  It cause such a big discussion, that he now threatens to do the same on all of his major builds to start the hens a cackling again about how awful the idea is....You just got reeled in bud, sorry.....

Put him back in the lake griff, he's an 8 pounder.....
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 09, 2013, 06:49:02 pm

 :cheers:


Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 07:01:36 pm
Making nice progress here
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/e2y9ezyp.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/repeneha.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/8etequpy.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 09, 2013, 07:13:24 pm
Ok that would be a yes.....damn your fast......

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 07:21:26 pm
Lol yeah I'm getting a good pace today.

Mounted the internal speakers from the TV below the computer speakers. This way you can always use the backglass to watch some football or a movie while playing your games
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/yre4ybyg.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 10:40:09 pm
Took a chance on some reclaimed 24v contactors from eBay, $35 for 8 shipped
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/syzutyqy.jpg)

A lot of people buy used Siemens contractors but I think its just because they see others using them. As a result the price of those keeps getting pushed up. I checked the specs and these have all the same as the Siemens ones for a third of the price.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: DaOld Man on March 09, 2013, 10:49:05 pm
Looking good Griff!!!
I like the allen bradley contactors, actually, I like them better than Siemens.
Good price for 8 of them.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: chopperthedog on March 09, 2013, 10:51:09 pm
Flip the upper speakers so the tweeters are spread further apart. It will help with stereo separation and sound imaging.



good day.
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 09, 2013, 10:56:54 pm
Flip the upper speakers so the tweeters are spread further apart. It will help with stereo separation and sound imaging.

Thanks! Good to know
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 10, 2013, 10:57:59 am
:P Damn you Scott!

Ever since you mentioned that nudgable lockdown bar the idea hasn't stopped rolling around in my head, it's genius.

Also I'm trying to find a more elegant way to incorporate the arcade controls that tie in with the pinball aesthetic. I was thinking an oversize nudgable lockdown bar with flush chrome buttons that you push down into the bar. The joystick is still obviously the biggest issue because of it's profile, but again if I kept it all chrome it could blend better.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/umetegyb.jpg)

I have no idea how to shape metal like this though. Maybe Neph can chime in on this one
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 10, 2013, 11:43:15 am
I have no idea how to shape metal like this though. Maybe Neph can chime in on this one

I'd go with laser cut for accuracy, then find someone/some company with a brake press to make the bends, then weld the seems of the corners, then it'd be ready to chrome. Try to get studs welded to the backside for the joystick mounting, it'd keep the top nice a clean.

Flat drawing would look something like this...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 10, 2013, 12:00:01 pm
Nice. Yep that sounds like a plan, And I think I know a guy who knows a guy. Thanks
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 10, 2013, 01:02:54 pm
Before you go with that design, remember that moving the joystick or pressing the flipper buttons vigorously will probably move the *sliding* lockdown bar.

You push left on the joystick and the joystick handle moves left until it stops, then the lockdown bar moves left.   :angry:  Not so great for SHMUPS/bullet hell.

Instead of having the flipper buttons, joystick, or player buttons on the lockdown/nudge bar, it should be either a rectangular frame or a U-shape when viewed from above.

Put the flippers (blue) on the siderails (yellow), just like a regular pin.

Put the joystick (black) and buttons (red) on a solid island (tan) in the middle of the bar. (gray)

With this setup, your palms rest on the lockdown bar while playing pinball, just like on a regular pin.

Moving the joystick will not move the lockdown bar.

The "island" should have shoulders that the lockdown bar slides either on or just above.

The shoulders need to be wider than the travel distance of the lockdown bar to press the nudge switches. (green)


Scott

Edit: Added diagram and supporting text, removed ASCII art
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 10, 2013, 01:05:50 pm
I actually liked how you kept the joystick and buttons off the top in the original concept. Can you still do that while intergrating this special lockbar?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 10, 2013, 01:37:14 pm
Making nice progress here
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/e2y9ezyp.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/repeneha.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/10/8etequpy.jpg)
Wow that is fast work!.
One thing that I notice is that the playfield looks flat, or is that just an illusion due to its size?.
I mention this as when I built my midi pin (before pindmds) the screen had to be laid flat to clear the third DMD screen, and it drove me crazy!.
So much so that now I have a real dmd and did away with the third screen (and also the second gpu) the past week has been spent rebuilding the base with a nice incline to the playfield.
Just some food for thought.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 10, 2013, 01:38:37 pm
Ahhh I see what you mean, although that solid slab of metal would be more characteristic of the pin feel. This is going to be a fun one I can see.

Yeah Yot finding the balance in the space, keeping functionality and maintaining the aesthetic is going to be a challenge. Avoiding making it look like a bad compromise of everything is going to be key
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 10, 2013, 01:42:45 pm
Hey Rocky. The whole machine will have an incline when its on its legs so yes at the moment the field is flat but it will be about 4-6 degrees when complete. The back box will have adjustable tilt to get the correct alignment to vertical when the table angle is introduced
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 10, 2013, 03:33:03 pm
Hey Rocky. The whole machine will have an incline when its on its legs so yes at the moment the field is flat but it will be about 4-6 degrees when complete. The back box will have adjustable tilt to get the correct alignment to vertical when the table angle is introduced
Cool!, like I said a flat PF drove me nuts and I did live with it for a few years but having had the past week off work it got redone - finally.
Just need to finish wiring the monster :) .
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 10, 2013, 04:02:03 pm
I actually liked how you kept the joystick and buttons off the top in the original concept. Can you still do that while intergrating this special lockbar?

The problem with having the joystick and buttons retractable -- like the original plan -- is that the proposed automation mechanism would interfere with the sideart projection path, the coin mech, or both.

Maybe try something like this rough concept using a linear actuator (red) to pivot the controls along a 2-segment hinge (green) allowing the cover (blue) to become a handrest when open.

NOTE: Not drawn to scale and the angle of the linear actuator is almost certainly too flat.


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 10, 2013, 04:52:26 pm
I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick. His concepts show a recessed area that appears to put the joysticks and buttons below the table surface, much like a Midway cocktail. If he's planning to add a joystick, I think this would be preferable to having it up on top all the time.
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 10, 2013, 06:09:20 pm
I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick. His concepts show a recessed area that appears to put the joysticks and buttons below the table surface, much like a Midway cocktail. If he's planning to add a joystick, I think this would be preferable to having it up on top all the time.

Yeah Scott had mentioned the retractable idea in some PM's back and forth
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 10, 2013, 11:48:30 pm
oddly enough I was thinking the same thing about the j-stik, retractable or removable,

Didnt think you were going for the transformer concept as well...

What would be cool is a j-stik shaft that could be screwed in an out of an actuator base......

Since your innovating, innovate that......



Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 09:35:41 am
oddly enough I was thinking the same thing about the j-stik, retractable or removable,

Didnt think you were going for the transformer concept as well...

What would be cool is a j-stik shaft that could be screwed in an out of an actuator base......

Since your innovating, innovate that......

If only someone could think of a way to do an easily removable shaft like that (http://www.focusattack.com/jlf-link/).   >:D

(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server500/d90a4/products/143/images/747/DSCF0076__46688.1322685017.1024.768.png)

I don't remember reading anything anywhere about a retractable joystick.

Reply #5 here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,130727.msg1338600.html#msg1338600) has an oblique reference to the "automated feature" -- a pop-up joystick/button panel on drawer slides controlled by opening or closing a cover which would cause the panel to raise or lower.

In reply #6, Joel said, "I don't think I have a problem with the control panel being a fixed part of the overall aesthetic."

When Joel mentioned a possible Addams Family theme, I suggested making the cover look like the lid of a coffin.


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 10:17:19 am
Making an executive decision here.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/11/evejabeq.jpg)

I don't like the deep sides, they take away from the pinball feel too much. So I'm doing two things.

1- Shortening the machine to just the length of the play field as much as I can. This allows me to project within the width of the cabinet with the projectors completely enclosed while still getting decent coverage.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/11/usegedub.jpg)

This then allows me to...

2. Chop the box depth to a more traditional layout so I can use proper legs and really retain that traditional pinball feel.

The arcade controls can exist in a million different ways but a pin cab needs to look like a pin cab so I'm going to let that lead and the controls will have to play nicely around that.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 11:44:44 am
Another potential solution for the arcade controls is to use Scott's original idea of having them retract, but use the coin door as the retracting area, essentially making the coin door just a facia that pops open like a drawer and then the arcade control panel can move up into place.

Rough sketch but you get the idea
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/be2ejujy.jpg)

This is nice as it can fire microswitches which can change the FE over to HyperSpin when the drawer is open and then back to HyperPin when it's closed. If I can pull this off then in pin mode the cab looks like any other Vpin cabinet...... sort of
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 12:45:48 pm
Time for a random music video post.

Anyone who used to play Star Wars Galaxies will probably know this piece of awesomeness, for those of you that don't, the fun really starts around 1:10 into the clip...

Fett's Vette (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z9XTeeA43o#)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 12:59:32 pm
making the coin door just a facia that pops open like a drawer and then the arcade control panel can move up into place.

Interesting thought.

Maybe use a rocker switch and Arduino to control linear actuator 1 to push out the coin door drawer and after a certain time, linear actuator 2 raises the panel into place.

When the rocker switch is set to the other position, linear actuator 2 lowers the panel for a certain time before commanding linear actuator 1 to retract the coin door drawer.


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 01:03:58 pm
Linear actuators a very expensive though right? I was thinking some kind of small scissor lift which are perfect for securing platforms at set heights.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: BadMouth on March 11, 2013, 01:24:06 pm
I'd have the visible part of the screen tapered parallel with the top.
Is it possible to mount the projector opposite the screen pointing down and use the mirror in the corner to get more width?


Sometimes Surplus Center has some weird parts that are useful for automation.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/ (http://www.surpluscenter.com/)
Most of them will be under electrical.

Watch the speeds on the actuators, they're usually pretty slow.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 01:29:00 pm
This seems like a decent price, I could probably power it via Zeb's power boards that I have coming...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dewert-24V-Stroke-Linear-Actuator-900lbs-Push-1300lbs-Pull-Force-8-Stroke-/190779501488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6b582bb0 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dewert-24V-Stroke-Linear-Actuator-900lbs-Push-1300lbs-Pull-Force-8-Stroke-/190779501488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6b582bb0)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: BadMouth on March 11, 2013, 01:32:41 pm
You know what would be awesome?  If the joystick were also the plunger.  :o

Front edge of the machine flips up.  The plunger becomes the joystick and the same buttons are utilized.
It's out there, but this project already is.

It will be lefty, but movement is the most important thing in shmups.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 01:34:39 pm
You know what would be awesome?  If the joystick were also the plunger.  :o
Front edge of the machine flips up.  The plunger becomes the joystick and the same buttons are utilized.
It's out there, but this project already is.
It will be lefty, but movement is the most important thing in shmups.

Wow that is out there lol, machine that up and let me know when you've finished, I'll send you my mailing address  ;D
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 01:43:09 pm
These are interesting...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laboratory-Scissor-Jack-6-x-6-/110956378206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d583f85e (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Laboratory-Scissor-Jack-6-x-6-/110956378206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d583f85e)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 02:12:02 pm
Given the weight rating of the linear actuator, you could combine it with a pulley system to get more speed.

Even with an 8:1 pulley setup you are still generating 112.5 lbs of force.   :o

The "Joystick Pulley Popup" diagram shows a manually-powered drawer + lift version.

It doesn't show the drawer slides or the latching mechanism to hold it open.

The "Pulley 2 to 1" diagram is for a straight ilft setup from another project and will need to be changed to handle the horizontal motion of the drawer.


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 02:19:19 pm
Anothe idea if going for a strictly minimalist approach, the buttons could always be there, perfectly flush mounted in the lockdown bar, done right they could look beautiful and double as flyer/back/menu buttons for Hyperpin so they would have a purpose.
(http://partner.kolo.com.pl/storage/images/produkty/ceramika/technic/94123-002/94123-002_380x380.jpg)

Then I would have to find a way to 'pop' the joystick up out of the lockdown bar. While all the pulleys levers servos and gizmos are fun, it may be better to try and go for the absolute least amount of moving parts - less to break. Perhaps a 4" travel LA that simply pushes the joystick up into position and pulls it back down again to park.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 11, 2013, 02:49:10 pm
Anothe idea if going for a strictly minimalist approach...

 :laugh2:

For a minute there, I thought I was in a different thread!
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 03:06:15 pm
For a minute there, I thought I was in a different thread!

Lol shut up you
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 11, 2013, 03:22:49 pm
I presume you are going to have a custom lockdown bar made.  Can you Inset buttons under lockbar and have the middle part of the lockbar hinged so as to allow access to buttons when you want to go to arcade mode.  The only problem there other then the manufacture of the lockdown bar is to either have a removable joystick handle or a way of making joystick vanish. (Which the 4" LA would do quite nicely).
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 03:27:27 pm
Yep Nick, mostly true apart from the hinged part, I would want the buttons to be perfectly flush with the surface of the lockdown down all the time as they could be used for pinball menu, navigation and information items.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 03:38:26 pm
I would have to find a way to 'pop' the joystick up out of the lockdown bar. While all the pulleys levers servos and gizmos are fun, it may be better to try and go for the absolute least amount of moving parts - less to break. Perhaps a 4" travel LA that simply pushes the joystick up into position and pulls it back down again to park.

So that brings us back to my original design suggestion.   :banghead:


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 03:42:17 pm
So that brings us back to my original design suggestion.   :banghead:

Lol not quite, you're obsessed with having panels sliding all over the place, I wouldn't want to do that at all, simply have a hole that the joystick ball top and shaft rise up through, perhaps it has a little hinged cap, but that's it.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 04:10:27 pm
I'm going to have a go at fabricating the joystick raise and lower system. I have an old motor from the original build of the rotating monitor setup in the revolution cab so I'll pop a Pololu controller on that bad boy and use it to drive a cam underneath the joystick base to raise it up and down. Just put 4 rails through the joystick holes and have it travel up and down those.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 11, 2013, 04:21:27 pm
Anyone else notice this guy just happens to have spare odd ball parts just laying around the house, or a buddy that just so happens to do all the fabricating he needs....

"I have this 3rd generation weedeater, that i could use to facilitate the drum pull of the scissor action swiss made lifter that i have sitting in my closet.  The only issue is i would have to fabricate the lower integrated shielding with titanium levelers, which by the way i have a buddy that can do this for me at cost."

Then he goes off and has to order, #3 wood screws from a local home depot......... :dunno
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 04:24:07 pm
 :laugh2: :laugh2: Yeah I've never got any of them damn screws
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 04:40:22 pm
I love chocolate pudding
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 11, 2013, 05:00:19 pm
(http://partner.kolo.com.pl/storage/images/produkty/ceramika/technic/94123-002/94123-002_380x380.jpg)
Don't the europeans make the most elegant toilet flushes?  That sort of concept would be great for my build as well.  It would be nice to have the ring around each button selectively lit too.  I really want to use some nice arcade hardware tho so I was thinking to try and mount the buttons through an overlay so that they depress from a flat surface.  Might be easier to retrofit rather than building buttons from scratch. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:03:38 pm
Yep I'm going to use standard RGB buttons sunk just under the lock bar and then polished steel disks stuck on top to sit flush with the lock bar surface. Make them slightly smaller than the hole to allow a thin rim of edge light through.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 11, 2013, 05:10:54 pm
Yep I'm going to use standard RGB buttons sunk just under the lock bar and then polished steel disks stuck on top to sit flush with the lock bar surface. Make them slightly smaller than the hole to allow a thin rim of edge light through.

If you're getting them punched make about 30 extra and I'll pay for them.  That's a good idea.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:12:41 pm
I was just going to wittle em out of steel with my man teeth
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:20:12 pm
Just realized that if I am going to use a cam to push up the joystick I could easily incorporate a second cam to raise the buttons too, this is going to be schmexy!
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 11, 2013, 05:23:38 pm
If you raise the buttons how are you going to have the nice finished top  :dunno
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:29:00 pm
If you raise the buttons how are you going to have the nice finished top  :dunno

They only raise up for arcade mode when the joystick does, in pinball mode they sit flush
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:33:02 pm
Keeping the joystick weight off the motor driveshaft by using a heavy crankshaft driven by a reduction gear. Joystick travels up and down linear rails on linear bearings
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/du3aruny.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 11, 2013, 05:33:37 pm
If you raise the buttons how are you going to have the nice finished top  :dunno

They only raise up for arcade mode when the joystick does, in pinball mode they sit flush

Ah, that makes sense, could look cool although when raised a little odd unless the little silver tops are very very cleanly done. (Or removable).
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 11, 2013, 05:39:55 pm
If you raise the buttons how are you going to have the nice finished top  :dunno

They only raise up for arcade mode when the joystick does, in pinball mode they sit flush

Ah, that makes sense, could look cool although when raised a little odd unless the little silver tops are very very cleanly done.

Anybody ever seen silver pushbuttons that are worth a damn?  Could be a route to go.  Simplify simplify simplify. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMEdQqyGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
These are $30 a pop

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31R2sofhmyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Heard these are craptastic

I like the idea of it but I want that great arcade feel.  Not willing to sacrifice that tactile response. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:41:50 pm
I have one of those blue ones, it was supposed to be the power button for Revolution, still sitting in the box, got it for about $7 off eBay. Doubt any of those would give you the true arcade response though, better to mod an arcade button, don't sacrifice performance for form
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 11, 2013, 05:57:33 pm
Yep have Dave laser fire you up some custom kiln dried carbon low profile pushbuttons  with a wide lip for aesthetics..that's the route I would go

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 05:59:13 pm
Yep have Dave laser fire you up some custom kiln dried carbon low profile pushbuttons  with a wide lip for aesthetics..that's the route I would go

Well if it's something you would do I better think of something better  >:D OH SNAP!
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 11, 2013, 06:00:58 pm
Yep have Dave laser fire you up some custom kiln dried carbon low profile pushbuttons  with a wide lip for aesthetics..that's the route I would go

Well if it's something you would do I better think of something better  >:D OH SNAP!
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 11, 2013, 06:13:39 pm
I'm sure you will mcgyver....I get to run my mouth for free....while you get to spend money topping my nonsense.......greatness

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 06:15:54 pm
This is true, but your mom does enjoy coming over to play them
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 11, 2013, 06:35:38 pm
I have one of those on The Blue Pill as a power switch.  As a power switch, it's very clicky and a heavy throw.  They're called Vandal Switches....I think because they look impervious from the top.  They're used a lot in elevators (same structure, usually different design).

AJ

If you raise the buttons how are you going to have the nice finished top  :dunno

They only raise up for arcade mode when the joystick does, in pinball mode they sit flush

Ah, that makes sense, could look cool although when raised a little odd unless the little silver tops are very very cleanly done.

Anybody ever seen silver pushbuttons that are worth a damn?  Could be a route to go.  Simplify simplify simplify. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMEdQqyGL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
These are $30 a pop

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31R2sofhmyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Heard these are craptastic

I like the idea of it but I want that great arcade feel.  Not willing to sacrifice that tactile response.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 11, 2013, 06:44:25 pm
If you get your lockdown bar laser cut, just use the circles from cutting the button holes. Mount regular arcade buttons just under the lockdown bar, and glue the cutout circles on top of the buttons. Perfect match in size and material.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 06:45:02 pm
If you get your lockdown bar laser cut, just use the circles from cutting the button holes. Mount regular arcade buttons just under the lockdown bar, and glue the cutout circles on top of the buttons. Perfect match in size and material.

Yep that's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 11, 2013, 06:47:35 pm
Yep I'm going to use standard RGB buttons sunk just under the lock bar and then polished steel disks stuck on top to sit flush with the lock bar surface. Make them slightly smaller than the hole to allow a thin rim of edge light through.

Didn't read this before... Too many ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- responses from the time I was last on...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 06:59:58 pm
you're obsessed with having panels sliding all over the place

And here I thought I was just suggesting mechanical methods to achieve your stated, and occasionally shifting, goal -- a joystick and maybe buttons that are hidden during pinball and rise up for MAME -- and warning about possible engineering pitfalls.

I figured you could take the basic mechanisms I posted and adapt one or more of them to suit your application. :dunno

I think I'll just dedicate the rest of my life to seeking professional help to completely cure my "obsessiveness".   :P   :lol


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 07:04:23 pm
I think I'll just dedicate the rest of my life to seeking professional help to completely cure my "obsessiveness".   :P   :lol


Ooooh no don't do that, then you'll be normal and you won't be allowed to hang around here any more with the rest of us obsessive freaks. Lol @ occasionally shifting. My mom always said I am drifting from one thing to the next and never sticking to one thing, I pointed out that having too many brilliant ideas is the result of good parenting.... she shut up after that.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 07:09:15 pm
posted this about my daughter the other day, but I guess the apples don't fall far from the tree

(http://www.kinemote.net/mame/normal.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 11, 2013, 07:22:29 pm
I pointed out that having too many brilliant ideas is the result of good parenting.
I'll be sure to pass that along to Mom and Dad.   :cheers:


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 11, 2013, 08:12:17 pm
A quick dig through the spare parts bin looks like I have most of what I need for this idea except for the controller and linear bearings which I ordered today. Should be able to get started though
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/bevypype.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 12, 2013, 01:03:39 am
Damn that's where she's been....send her home please and ill go get you mom off my Atari 2600 in the media room....

Dammit griffin your gonna get us banned...>:D

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 09:43:18 am
Lol.

Parts are all in for the braaaaaiiiiinnnnzzzz
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/me3e9aba.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 10:03:15 am
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/12/4epanyja.jpg)

Got the garage organized so I can move and work better, clutter drives me insane
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 12, 2013, 10:25:09 am
Rearranging the garage does not constitute a satisfying update.  Get thee to work.   >:D
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 11:49:16 am
Ahhh so you've been down that road too... I guess we all do, why do families keep putting all their crap in my arcade building sawdust dungeon????????

Meanwhile, in other news...

(http://www.dollymix.tv/images/12/07/06/what-really-happens-tetris.png)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Malenko on March 12, 2013, 11:50:20 am
as much as I love all the over engineering going on, why not just a stand alone controller with suction cups or something that sits inside the coin door. When you wanna play something that require the controller, open the coin door, take it out, and put it on the lockdown bar.  :dunno
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 11:52:14 am
as much as I love all the over engineering going on, why not just a stand alone controller with suction cups or something that sits inside the coin door. When you wanna play something that require the controller, open the coin door, take it out, and put it on the lockdown bar.  :dunno

You Sir are in the wrong thread for practical, sensible, economical well thought out and executed ideas. Now go sit in the corner with the sensible cone on your head, think about what you have said and wait until someone throws a custard pie at you before you come back to play.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: jmike on March 12, 2013, 11:54:35 am
 ;D  Hey Griff how about something like this?
I know you have the coin door there but I'm sure you can come up with something. Just an idea.

Arcade machine with 5 Rotating Control Panels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYCXYQGIgY8#)


 :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 12, 2013, 11:58:37 am
as much as I love all the over engineering going on, why not just a stand alone controller with suction cups or something that sits inside the coin door. When you wanna play something that require the controller, open the coin door, take it out, and put it on the lockdown bar.  :dunno

You Sir are in the wrong thread for practical, sensible, economical well thought out and executed ideas. Now go sit in the corner with the sensible cone on your head, think about what you have said and wait until someone throws a custard pie at you before you come back to play.

 :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Dude have you lost your mind, you just asked a man who open doors with his mind to use a door knob....

Where's the icon for pie.....you dear sir will be drawn an quartered at dawn....bring in the beer and wenches let us celebrate this day....
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 12, 2013, 01:05:11 pm
There are a handful of folks on this forum that are just in another stratosphere when it comes to these builds.  griffindodd, my friend, you are there.

I consider myself fairly handy, but I can't help but feel utterly inadequate when I read threads like this one.  Kudos! 

:cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 12, 2013, 01:06:29 pm
And ingenuity mixed with all the witty banter....makes for quite an entertaining show.  ;)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 01:08:19 pm
;D  Hey Griff how about something like this?
I know you have the coin door there but I'm sure you can come up with something. Just an idea.
Arcade machine with 5 Rotating Control Panels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYCXYQGIgY8#)
 :cheers:

Holy crap, that is pretty impressive, although I'd like to see him pull that off with a Tron stick, steering wheel and Paperboy handlebars lol.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Malenko on March 12, 2013, 01:56:33 pm
You Sir are in the wrong thread for practical, sensible, economical well thought out and executed ideas. Now go sit in the corner with the sensible cone on your head, think about what you have said and wait until someone throws a custard pie at you before you come back to play.

ok ok , a bi-folding arm that extends from inside the coin door and holds the controls up or something, s second set of controls for player 2 extend up from under the cab.  :dunno
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 01:58:18 pm
ok ok , a bi-folding arm that extends from inside the coin door and holds the controls up or something, s second set of controls for player 2 extend up from under the cab.  :dunno

And the cupholders?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Yvan256 on March 12, 2013, 02:26:31 pm
And the cupholders?

They just materialize on the sides, since the cabinet should have a built-in Star Trek replicator.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 12, 2013, 03:19:54 pm
And the cupholders?

They just materialize on the sides, since the cabinet should have a built-in Star Trek replicator.

Chad don't do it, i know your tempted...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on March 12, 2013, 03:42:51 pm
Wow.  7 pages and you haven't even sorted the cupholders yet.

What's up with that?  >:D

AJ
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Yvan256 on March 12, 2013, 04:49:16 pm
How about Robocop-style cup holders? Bonus points if they're motorized and you end up with a sound similar to the one in the movies.

(http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_robocop12_6.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 12, 2013, 09:14:50 pm
Why not build a filling station into the cup holder using a bottoms up system?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvDO2tTB3JZ3eFDRKHxfjDA&feature=player_embedded&v=K9hMwT4tG00#t=122s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUvDO2tTB3JZ3eFDRKHxfjDA&feature=player_embedded&v=K9hMwT4tG00#t=122s)

Bottoms Up Home Unit Kit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW-yAZMoC6c#ws)

You're welcome America!

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 12, 2013, 09:21:41 pm
I wonder how much the special cups are? You have to contact them for pricing, it seems.

And can someone just tell me if this thing will be able to play Galaga?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 12, 2013, 09:35:28 pm
The cups are plastic with a hole in the bottom and a flat magnet that's held down my water/beer pressure.  They run about 50 cents a pop.  The home filling station is $1400ish  :laugh2:  :banghead:  :laugh2:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 09:59:15 pm
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/age6y6es.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 12, 2013, 11:15:59 pm
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/he6etery.jpg)

How many internetz  points do I get for RAM heatsinks shaped like gunz?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 13, 2013, 12:08:40 am
Every Mac owner's nightmare.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/na4ehuta.jpg)
"But where do I download my apps?"
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 13, 2013, 01:20:04 am
Now we are having fun
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/a8a6ureb.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 13, 2013, 04:06:43 am
Such a large machine, Such a small Motherboard.  Not gonna have issues finding somewhere to install that  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 13, 2013, 11:55:57 am
That keyboard have a scroll lock key?  If not, you're gonna run into some problems if/when you try to set up FP tables...  :)  Hopefully you've got a backup that does...

RAM shaped like Gunz.  Mmmmmm.  Not very PC these days is it?  (pun only partially intended)  ;)

Pardon me while I go clean my Glock...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 13, 2013, 12:08:49 pm
Such a large machine, Such a small Motherboard.  Not gonna have issues finding somewhere to install that  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Yeah should be able to squeeze it in there, BTW that is a worktable in that photo not the frame lol.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Yvan256 on March 13, 2013, 12:09:22 pm
Every Mac owner's nightmare.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/na4ehuta.jpg)

Actually the only thing that scares me in that photo is the mechanical hard drive, the unsupported PCI/etc cards and the ergonomic Microsoft Keyboard. And the fact that I'd rather use MS-DOS than Windows. ;)

I can't wait to see this thing finished, you're making good progress!
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 13, 2013, 12:12:07 pm
Actually the only thing that scares me in that photo is the mechanical hard drive, the unsupported PCI/etc cards and the ergonomic Microsoft Keyboard. And the fact that I'd rather use MS-DOS than Windows. ;)
I can't wait to see this thing finished, you're making good progress!

Yeah this is all just for basic software testing and install, proper mounting to come later on. Had an SSD from work but it was DOA and I have a few of these server grade 1TB mechanicals laying around so I figured I'd just go with them.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: dandro on March 13, 2013, 03:53:19 pm
Actually the only thing that scares me in that photo is the mechanical hard drive, the unsupported PCI/etc cards and the ergonomic Microsoft Keyboard. And the fact that I'd rather use MS-DOS than Windows. ;)
I can't wait to see this thing finished, you're making good progress!

Yeah this is all just for basic software testing and install, proper mounting to come later on. Had an SSD from work but it was DOA and I have a few of these server grade 1TB mechanicals laying around so I figured I'd just go with them.

I just had several SSD drives come in,.. thought the envelope (apparently they ship these in envelopes now) felt like it was empty,.. crazy light!...  Back on subject, do you sleep at all? man this thing is building itself!!!  :D
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: wp34 on March 13, 2013, 09:25:42 pm
Every Mac owner's nightmare.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/13/na4ehuta.jpg)
"But where do I download my apps?"

 :laugh2:

I'm a Mac owner and I find that funny.

Awesome build.   :applaud:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 14, 2013, 10:24:58 am
And so the software headaches start. But its looking purty that's for sure
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/14/3e9e4e2a.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Felsir on March 14, 2013, 10:43:19 am
That keyboard have a scroll lock key?  If not, you're gonna run into some problems if/when you try to set up FP tables...  :)  Hopefully you've got a backup that does...
Indeed, I ended up adding a PS/2 connector on the back of my cabinet (basically an extension wire to the mainboard) just for that. My wireless keyboard didn't have a scroll-lock key.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 14, 2013, 12:23:13 pm
And so the software headaches start. But its looking purty that's for sure

Real purty!  Setting up HP is a task I've been putting off.  If it's anywhere near as 'fun' as it was getting HS working well on my Arcade cab, I'm not particularly looking forward to it...  But man it sure is a super-slick FE.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 14, 2013, 12:33:43 pm
Yep fortunately that keyboard does have scroll lock, although its a function shifted key.

Going to have to mess more with my video drivers as I am seeing odd behavior. In the NVidia CP it doesn't let me rearrange the monitor positions and it's not allowing me to rotate displays for some odd reason. Also all programs are having trouble finding my secondary monitor, so there's some bug mashing to be done.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on March 14, 2013, 06:37:40 pm
Hey there Griff,

I was recently thinking about your Joystick issue.  Hiding the joystick until needed is a great idea.  for me I would think that having the joystick always visible would be a bit of a distraction. 

Maybe build a push down release panel that could be rotated back into the top of the cabinet and then slid down to lock into place revealing the the Joysticks and buttons would be pretty cool.  You could even make it moterized.  I am not sure if I can explain this so that you can understand but half of my idea would be like the picture below, the other half of my idea is not to have the flip panel on a 45 degree angle but it would need to be built with the ability to slide down and lock into place so that it was parallel and flush with the top of the playfield glass. 

Anyway just an idea to wrap your head around.

Jigenjuke
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 15, 2013, 12:23:15 pm
Thanks for the idea. I think I know where I want to go with this for now, but until I start to build it out and see if it's going to work well it's hard to say.

Been fighting some monitor issues these past few days, typical buggy Nvidia crap with monitors not reporting properly and other niggling annoyances. Making progress though, I have the back glass at 1280 x 720, ultra wide at custom 1280 x 480 and play field at 1920 x 1080. The projectors will be set up as one monitor and I'll just split the signal to both of them, that monitor (#4) will be set to mirror either the back glass or ultra wide for now. Later on I'll see about making it it's own extended desktop and play with sending unique art to it.

Having a weird issue with HyperPin where the back glass won't go to the secondary monitor, it sits under the main play field on the main monitor. I have the settings set to display the back glass on the secondary monitor in the settings.ini but for some reason it doesn't want to go there.  :dunno Maybe it's a Run as Administrator issue as I'm using Windows 7
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 15, 2013, 03:17:52 pm
how have you set up the monitors in windows are they side by side or above main monitor  (Do you send mouse right/left to get the 2nd/3rd screen or are you going up/down).

I dimly remember something about having them side by side not above and below and that the order they work depends on the order they are plugged in and not necessarily the order shown in windows.  I could be going mad as I have read one hell of a lot of pinball builds on Hyperspin.

I need to get a real life  :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

Found it
http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?6549-Back-Glass-above-Play-Field-monitor-doesn-t-work&highlight=configure+monitors (http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?6549-Back-Glass-above-Play-Field-monitor-doesn-t-work&highlight=configure+monitors)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 15, 2013, 03:46:46 pm
Got the monitors set as extended desktop with #2 on the right hand side of #1 and #3 under #2.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 15, 2013, 04:11:29 pm
Is it only in Hyperspin that it is doing this, or does it do it when playing the games themselves?

Are monitors 1 & 2 aligned along the top edge, Is the playfield set as Primary screen. 

Are monitors 1&2 on the same card with 3 on the 2nd.

Is it all tables, and what format tables did you get,  full screen cabinet or other?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 15, 2013, 04:16:32 pm
Only hyperpin. Primary is play field. Secondary aligned top with primary. Secondary to the right of primary. All three on one card as its a Kepler based GPU. If you alt tab through the windows you can see the back glass window sitting in the middle of screen 1 primary. But if you bring the window to focus it disappears
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 15, 2013, 04:18:33 pm
edited above whilst you were answering.  Which tables are you using?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 15, 2013, 04:21:35 pm
The tables themselves are working in the future pinball for now, I still have some position and scaling to do but I feel confident I can work that out. For some reason Hyperpin doesn't recognize the secondary monitor properly, doing research.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 15, 2013, 04:37:25 pm
Did you change x/y for backglass image or are they set to 0,0
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 15, 2013, 04:39:01 pm
Did you change x/y for backglass image or are they set to 0,0

I think they are at 0,0
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 15, 2013, 04:43:17 pm
In which case I am all outta ideas  :banghead:  I see you have posted over at Hyperpin.  Undoubtedly they will advise some of the same things I advised and then its play with different driver versions I guess.   When you fix it let us know the fix. If I ever have the cash to build one of these things I will need all the online help I can find  :laugh2: :laugh2: 

Although please do try with monitors 1/2/3 all in a row like little ducks. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 17, 2013, 01:39:45 am
Still fighting away with the stuff but getting closer to my goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA_e9AAz5EY

The smaller monitor on the side represents the signal that will go to the side projectors, it can mirror either of the backglass screens or have its own content.

I'm getting future pinball on three monitors by putting the back glass in a window and having it oversized dpillinv down into the third monitor. It works quite but its not quite where I want it. Slow progress on these bugs. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 17, 2013, 02:00:53 am
Keep getting it really close but then when reopening the table after saving the back trans light seems to like to move around, not very reliable

Here's my best proportions so far
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/17/vy6u7uqu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/17/jy8abagu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/17/agy8a2ut.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 18, 2013, 11:39:56 pm
Finally got hyperpin uvp and visual pinball working with the 4 monitors, now we are getting somewhere
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/19/epuzaben.jpg)

Love the giant dmd
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 18, 2013, 11:41:57 pm
The pinball part of the cab is looking good!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 19, 2013, 08:45:13 am

I so need to build a VP cab like this.  Too many things in the queue first...
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ids on March 19, 2013, 09:44:23 am

I so need to build a VP cab like this.  Too many things in the queue first...

me too
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: bearzilla333 on March 19, 2013, 10:00:34 am
Inspiring indeed!   :notworthy:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 19, 2013, 10:52:16 am
Here's a walk through of the four screens and how I'm trying to get them to work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcSpcuZY9Mo
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 19, 2013, 12:25:51 pm
In which case I am all outta ideas  :banghead:  I see you have posted over at Hyperpin.  Undoubtedly they will advise some of the same things I advised and then its play with different driver versions I guess.   When you fix it let us know the fix. If I ever have the cash to build one of these things I will need all the online help I can find  :laugh2: :laugh2: 

Although please do try with monitors 1/2/3 all in a row like little ducks.

So I finally worked this out, and it is kinda annoying/disturbing to find the answer. The Hyperpin backglass works on the second screen ONLY if the third screen is not 'touching' the primary monitor, otherwise it jumps to the third screen. The reason non of them were initially working was my UVP server wasn't installed properly.

So to get around this I have the secondary monitor set to 1366x720 custom res and then the third monitor set to 1280x720 and I float it on the horizontal so it is centered underneath the 2nd monitor. This way the third monitor doesn't touch the primary monitor, very crazy and I'm concerned that the third monitor may be 'snapping' back to touch the primary on reboot.  :banghead:

Anyway, at least I'm starting to understand the nature of this very quirky set up, if it continues to give me headaches I may have to drop Future Pinball as that's the program that's forcing me to have my third monitor under my second one, unless of course I can find a way to get a DMD from FP over to the third monitor as an individual element rather than some weird extension of the second monitor..

PHEw.....too many monitors.  :dunno
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Malenko on March 21, 2013, 09:54:22 am
This makes me think that if/when I build mine, the backglass is going to a single monitor mounted vertically, with the back glass and DMD both showing up on 1 screen. Of course that will probably introduce exciting new difficulties!

build looks good so far, I wish I had the scratch to do one myself.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 21, 2013, 09:57:13 am
I highly recommend taking the single monitor approach on the back as it is way less complicated than this. I would have done it myself but I need to be able to mirror my DMD to the side projectors so it needed its own physical screen.
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 21, 2013, 10:21:45 am
This makes me think that if/when I build mine, the backglass is going to a single monitor mounted vertically, with the back glass and DMD both showing up on 1 screen. Of course that will probably introduce exciting new difficulties!

build looks good so far, I wish I had the scratch to do one myself.

That's an interesting approach. I'd like to see that one implemented.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 21, 2013, 11:40:13 am

I did a little math on how much smaller basic VP cab would cost.  I'm talking something with a PC just like griffindodd's and a two monitor setup (27" and 19").  No fancy addons or pinball cabinet hardware.  No matter how I jiggle the numbers it comes out to around a grand assuming all newly purchased parts.   Some hardware recycling could bring it down to the 800 range.  And that's a cabaret sized VP cab.


Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 21, 2013, 12:02:06 pm
Yeah the screens are a bit of a money burner, despite buying refurbed bargains I've still got almost $1,500 into this just for screens and PJs alone  :dizzy:

Finally got HyperPin, Visual Pinball and Future Pinball playing the way I want them to with the screens and ironed out some of the glitches with the setup, so I'm confident enough in the software to make some more decisions on cabinet dimensions and alignment.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 21, 2013, 10:01:31 pm
 :badmood: Too many words, need more pics....

Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 21, 2013, 11:15:18 pm
Here...

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/22/4y4a9ypy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/22/dazaje8u.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 22, 2013, 12:02:47 am
Its becoming apparent that the amount of reshaping and adjusting I've been having to do means I'll have to do the sides again for structural rigidness. So I'm going to frame out the pattern then use it as a routing guide.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/22/ube8are6.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 23, 2013, 09:26:30 am

Agreed on redoing the sides.  Less sexy work but nonetheless very important.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on March 23, 2013, 11:20:49 am
 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

He's making major improvements ladies and gentlemen, the curves the lines the detail.  Don't forget about those signature pocket screws Jim, this would not be a Griffindodd build w/o pocket screws....

Loving the night shift approach it brings an essence of peace when your able to run loud obnoxious tools at night, right Jim?  I agree, there is something special about midnight sawdust......

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

 
Title: Re: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 24, 2013, 05:53:29 am
This makes me think that if/when I build mine, the backglass is going to a single monitor mounted vertically, with the back glass and DMD both showing up on 1 screen. Of course that will probably introduce exciting new difficulties!

build looks good so far, I wish I had the scratch to do one myself.

That's an interesting approach. I'd like to see that one implemented.
Here you go (http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=14734)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Slig on March 25, 2013, 09:40:18 pm
O M F G!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 26, 2013, 11:44:06 am
Taking a little break over the next week, heading off to Oregon to have a few craft brews in Portland, drive the coast and spend some time in Eugene and Bend with the wife and peanut, time for some green trees and mountain air instead of sawdust and wood glue.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: dandro on March 26, 2013, 12:45:40 pm
When/If your driving I-5 north, when you pass 205/580 near Tracy, wave! 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 26, 2013, 01:32:29 pm
Taking a little break over the next week, heading off to Oregon to have a few craft brews in Portland, drive the coast and spend some time in Eugene and Bend with the wife and peanut, time for some green trees and mountain air instead of sawdust and wood glue.

Enjoy!  Hopefully you'll come back to the project rejuvenated, and with a nice fresh perspective.  :)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 26, 2013, 02:16:24 pm
Thanks guys. I must admit I'm hitting a bit of a mental wall with this, not for any bad reason, just the big projects sometimes feel a bit too big. That's why I keep side projects like the Kong barrel
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 12:23:19 pm
I decided that the load times weren't fast enough and they were taking away from the experience too much, so I hunted down a decent deal for a refurb 120GB Corsair Neutron GTX SSD for $100 shipped, it's a screaming fast drive so hopefully it will make a big difference to the overall feel of the menus and game loads.

(http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/20-233-404-TS?$S300W$)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 12:54:08 pm
Having a really hard time naming this project, Identity Crisis was more of a working title, but I guess it fits quite well as the machine transforms totally based on what you are playing. I guess it would be fun if I took the Time Crisis logo and adjusted it but I can't seem to find a font anywhere for that.

This is almost the opposite to my other builds where artwork has played such a huge part in their identity, ideally this build will have no printed artwork anywhere on the cab....hrmmmmmmm

Anyone else got any super clever names for something that constantly morphs?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 27, 2013, 12:58:43 pm
I decided that the load times weren't fast enough and they were taking away from the experience too much, so I hunted down a decent deal for a refurb 120GB Corsair Neutron GTX SSD for $100 shipped, it's a screaming fast drive so hopefully it will make a big difference to the overall feel of the menus and game loads.


The entire front end should be working out of memory.  Game loads, maaaybe, but I'm thinking that disc speed isn't your issue here.   This is more of a "how fast can you process the paperwork" sort of thing and not "how fast can you read the paperwork".
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 01:03:53 pm
The entire front end should be working out of memory.  Game loads, maaaybe, but I'm thinking that disc speed isn't your issue here.   This is more of a "how fast can you process the paperwork" sort of thing and not "how fast can you read the paperwork".

Getting the FE from disk to memory is the choke and loading tables is the most noticeable issue. Also leaving tables and going back to the FE is strangely laggy as it should, like you have said, all be in memory. I'm using 8GB of 1866 DDR3 on an x64 system, so I don't understand the 6-8 seconds between quitting a table and being able to navigate in HyperPin again.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Yvan256 on March 27, 2013, 01:10:25 pm
Having a really hard time naming this project, Identity Crisis was more of a working title [...] Anyone else got any super clever names for something that constantly morphs?

Morphcade? Only 9 non-related results on Google! ;)

There's so many things inside that project that even picking one to name it wouldn't do it justice, i.e. "LCDCade" or "Projectorcade". Not to mention that those are silly names.

How about "OddCade"?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 01:11:41 pm
ummm I think anything with the letters "CADE' in it is an automatic /fail
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 27, 2013, 01:13:18 pm
ummm I think anything with the letters "CADE' in it is an automatic /fail

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:*





*Unless it's a clever pun, like Shoryukade.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 01:25:58 pm
AFKade
Darkade
Urkelcade

are the only exceptions to this rule.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 27, 2013, 01:53:59 pm
The entire front end should be working out of memory.  Game loads, maaaybe, but I'm thinking that disc speed isn't your issue here.   This is more of a "how fast can you process the paperwork" sort of thing and not "how fast can you read the paperwork".

Not sure I agree here CT.  Yes, maybe the base program code is always in memory, but it doesn't seem likely that every theme -- each usually consisting of video and backglass graphics -- and every table could possibly be resident in memory at all times.

Based on everything I've seen/heard over on the pin forums, SSDs can make a pretty substantial improvement in not only load/exit times for the tables, but also the performance when browsing tables.

Performance aside, I think an SSD is just smart in pincabs, as they are usually getting jolted around during play, by design.  Mechanical drives don't generally take to that kind of treatment well over time...  :)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 27, 2013, 02:08:19 pm
Not sure I agree here CT.  Yes, maybe the base program code is always in memory, but it doesn't seem likely that every theme -- each usually consisting of video and backglass graphics -- and every table could possibly be resident in memory at all times.

No, not all of them, but there is no way it should be so slow on disc io that it's taking multiple seconds to load a backglass image. 


Quote
Based on everything I've seen/heard over on the pin forums, SSDs can make a pretty substantial improvement in not only load/exit times for the tables, but also the performance when browsing tables.

If so many people are saying it I'll believe it.  I don't think the issue is the machine, though.  Design logic here would say it's the application.  We're talking about a physical device local to a 64 bit bus that can push out over a hundred meg a second.  How big are these backglass images?


Quote
Performance aside, I think an SSD is just smart in pincabs, as they are usually getting jolted around during play, by design.  Mechanical drives don't generally take to that kind of treatment well over time...  :)

That's probably a point but I bet the contents/software will outgrow the drive before the drive dies. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Gamester on March 27, 2013, 03:08:49 pm
If so many people are saying it I'll believe it.  I don't think the issue is the machine, though.  Design logic here would say it's the application.  We're talking about a physical device local to a 64 bit bus that can push out over a hundred meg a second.  How big are these backglass images?

It's not just backglass images. Each table usually also has an associated preview video which can range anywhere from 3-25MB in size.  A full compliment of tables can easily consist of a 2-3GB of videos and backglass images.

That being said, I think some of it really may just be a matter of faster hardware covering up code/design inefficiencies.  This is glaringly evident with the pinball emulators themselves.  There is no valid reason it should take the kind of horsepower that people are having to throw at these pin applications to get smooth game play.  But for those apps it really just boils down to antiquated engines that have had years of hacks, band-aids, scripts and add-ins tacked on to get all of the functionality that we have today.  The problem is it's all woefully inefficient, and the only easy way to overcome those issues is to simply throw more horsepower at the problem.

There are some new projects under way that aim to address these issues, but who knows how long it will take for those to come to fruition.

That's probably a point but I bet the contents/software will outgrow the drive before the drive dies.

Well, it's not like heat or some other factor that would cause gradual degradation.  All it takes is one jolt that's just a little too hard to do instantaneous (and often catastrophic) damage.  :) 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Drnick on March 27, 2013, 03:13:36 pm
Well, it's not like heat or some other factor that would cause gradual degradation.  All it takes is one jolt that's just a little too hard to do instantaneous (and often catastrophic) damage.  :) 

I can vouch for this,  Take 1 wife hoovering with cables where they should not have been, 1 x 1TB Hdd,  1 x 2" Drop and you have 1 x very unhappy hubby.  I can laugh now but I lost sooooo much data that day.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 27, 2013, 03:37:10 pm

It's pretty hard to jolt one small device reasonably mounted inside a 400lb cabinet.  Put the drive on some sort of cushioning and you'll have to flip the cabinet over to for it to matter.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 27, 2013, 03:43:49 pm

It's pretty hard to jolt one small device reasonably mounted inside a 400lb cabinet.  Put the drive on some sort of cushioning and you'll have to flip the cabinet over to for it to matter.

OMG let the dude do his thing!  Where's your VPIN build?
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 27, 2013, 03:48:37 pm
OMG let the dude do his thing!  Where's your VPIN build?


Nobody is criticizing griffindodd.  We've been doing this since the thread started.  Notice nobody has said "SSD isn't faster".  It is, clearly.  We're debating why it's faster and the software itself.  This is positive discussion. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 27, 2013, 06:28:04 pm
Anyone else got any super clever names for something that constantly morphs?

Schizopinia -- From schizophrenia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia).

** Before anyone asks: Yes, I do know that schizophrenia is not the same as DID or MPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_personality).

Transmogrifier -- From the root word transmogrify (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transmogrify) which means to change into a different shape or form, especially one that is fantastic or bizarre.

Alchemy -- Alchemy (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alchemy) (2nd definition) A seemingly magical power or process of transmuting.

Some other variant of transfigure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transfigure) or transmute (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transmute).   :dunno

Tim Conway: "In canis corpore transmuto"   :lol
The Shaggy D.A. - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSOBN04u0t0#)
If you want more of a Native American vibe, you could try Pin-walker (Skin-walker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin-walker))


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on March 27, 2013, 06:32:02 pm
Scott, I'm sure you have embedded some kind of brain-scanning probe in my ear via these forums with your wizardry and spells. My original concept for the cab was 'Addams Family: Schizophrenia' as I thought it was originally going to take a TAF clone look and transform between games.

PL1 IS IN MA HID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET OUT  :banghead: GET OUT  :banghead:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on March 27, 2013, 07:34:56 pm
Careful . . . those implants are expensive!

Don't make us re-abduct you.  (http://netanimations.net/alien_10_animated.gif)


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on March 27, 2013, 07:40:40 pm

You can only call it a transmogrifier if you make it look like a cardboard box and have Calvin coming out of it.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on March 27, 2013, 08:28:19 pm
I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it. 
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Felsir on March 28, 2013, 04:23:18 am
You can only call it a transmogrifier if you make it look like a cardboard box and have Calvin coming out of it.
This.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Malenko on March 28, 2013, 04:22:46 pm
*Unless it's a clever pun, like Shoryukade.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 01, 2013, 10:31:11 pm
Everything has ground to a bit of a halt of late with family vacations and such. Last few bits still dribbling in.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/02/su3y5y2u.jpg)
Thanks Zeb for all the power and force feedback gear, can't wait to electrocute myself trying to wire this up

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/02/atynuhyr.jpg)
Magstik plus (thanks Jason) and a tilt Bob for modding into a three way switch

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/02/4egy5eva.jpg)
And last but not least some speedy solid state Corsair goodness
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 02, 2013, 06:59:53 pm
I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it.

I like this name a lot and it does ring of pinball nostalgia a little, but it is the name of a DIY pinball machine that someone made, found that on the Googlez. Something along those lines though....

Sorcery
Occamy (an alloy imitating silver)
Voodoo
Incantation
Wizardry
Mutant
Shifter

(Pinball) Wizardry is a nice play on an old theme, what do you think? I also like Voodoo
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on April 02, 2013, 09:07:23 pm
As long as Wizardry doesn't get abbreviated into The Wiz (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078504/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1).  :laugh2:

Michael Jackson - Ease On Down the Road (with Diana Ross) [Demo Version 1978] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6nThvnAiM#)

I really like Alchemy.  It's begging for a custom set of art and a custom table to go with it.

I like this name a lot and it does ring of pinball nostalgia a little, but it is the name of a DIY pinball machine that someone made, found that on the Googlez.
Of course, you could just throw TheRedOpusBXL (http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRedOpusBXL?feature=watch) a hat-tip and a link and steal the Alchemy name anyways.  >:D

I don't see any activity on it in the last 4 years.


Scott
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on April 02, 2013, 11:41:49 pm
I like "Voodoo" if "Alchemy" is off the table.

What about "Pinball de los Muertos", give it a Day of the Dead theme based very loosely on the art deco style seen in Lucas Art's Grim Fandango.  Custom table be representative of the 4 year journey fallen Aztec warriors must take through the nine levels of the underworld.   
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on April 03, 2013, 09:48:47 am

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: dandro on April 03, 2013, 10:22:56 am
or simply just call it:

"The VooDoo, Incantation, Mutant - Shifting Wizard of Occamy"  :dizzy: LOL
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 03, 2013, 11:31:37 am
or simply just call it:
"The VooDoo, Incantation, Mutant - Shifting Wizard of Occamy"  :dizzy: LOL

Lol, the V.I.M.S.W.O.
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: harveybirdman on April 03, 2013, 10:31:31 pm

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: CoryBee on April 04, 2013, 01:22:02 am

Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....

Ugh.....

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/corydrippon/GEDC0277.jpg)
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on April 04, 2013, 12:06:16 pm
Did you make them promise not to tell anyone who built that for them?   :laugh2:


AJ


Voodoo should be reserved for Jimi Hendrix themes.

Somewhere a CoreyBee customer is having a horrible idea.....

Ugh.....

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j227/corydrippon/GEDC0277.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 04, 2013, 06:01:34 pm
Well Alchemy was too good not to use, well done Le Chuck PL1! As for that other guy's machine.....  :cheers:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: ChadTower on April 04, 2013, 06:04:08 pm

Grr.  Stop changing the beginning of the thread title!  Makes it hard to follow if you don't thread subscribe.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on April 04, 2013, 06:26:17 pm
Well Alchemy was too good not to use, well done Le Chuck! As for that other guys machine.....  :cheers:

I'll take the assist, PL1 is Teh Bigu WINNAH!  What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 04, 2013, 06:28:36 pm
Oops yeah sorry Scott, man Le Chuck is always trying to take the credit for your ideas, who let that guy in here?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 04, 2013, 06:29:25 pm
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on April 04, 2013, 06:57:58 pm
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?

Harry and tattoo'd. Whaddya take me for, some kinda weirdo?
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: griffindodd on April 04, 2013, 07:22:42 pm
Harry and tattoo'd.

I thought you and Harry broke up?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on April 04, 2013, 08:55:52 pm
What brand of pat on the back are we getting?!

How do you like your tea bag?

I figure that if you tried, his response would be reminiscent of Daggett from the Angry Beavers.
(http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/73/5/AAAADIXPke8AAAAAAHNYyA.jpg?v=1253550670000)
 :laugh2:


Scott
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Sshado on April 21, 2013, 11:20:29 pm
Another awesome build, how is this one coming along ?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on April 21, 2013, 11:44:31 pm
This is on hold while I try and clear all the less complex stuff out of the garage
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Sshado on April 22, 2013, 09:08:46 am
Where do you live, I will help you move it  ;)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on April 22, 2013, 09:26:59 am
Lol by clear I mean finish the projects
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: dandro on April 22, 2013, 09:32:48 am
Where do you live, I will help you move it  ;)

He is south of us, let's go! we'll def give him more room!  ;)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on April 22, 2013, 09:40:21 am
Lil yeah no problem I'm sure the dog will be happy to eat you
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on April 29, 2013, 05:57:46 pm
Still on hold, but the other projects are starting to move out of the Garage, I hope to have Donkey Kong and Paperboy complete, fully operational and in the house by next weekend. Then I want to finish up Barrel of Kong before I return to this... assuming we don't move house first
Title: Re: Identity Crisis! : Morphing Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Yvan256 on April 29, 2013, 08:23:14 pm
Thanks Zeb for all the power and force feedback gear, can't wait to electrocute myself trying to wire this up.

I know my reply is late, but frankly that's one of the funniest thing I've ever read.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Sshado on May 17, 2013, 08:47:42 am
Still eagerly watching this thread. I am trying to decide if I am going to buy a 29" Ultrawide or a DMD so I want to see how yours turns out with the 29"...
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on May 17, 2013, 09:38:36 am
Yeah sorry not much traction on this, I'm waiting on some final pieces to finish up the Paperboy and get it out of the garage, also I have to throw out a bunch of other junk that has built up and get ready for a potential house move in a few months so I've been taking a bit of a break from the builds.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2013, 02:22:10 pm
Finally I get to return to the beast now everything else is out of the way.

Completely redoing the sides with a new more traditional profile.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/yne5y2et.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2013, 04:23:05 pm
Happier with this,  much more pinbally
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/8amyme7e.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on June 02, 2013, 07:35:14 pm
Too late for mitre joints?
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2013, 08:42:31 pm
Too late for mitre joints?

Yeah too late for that but at least they are reinforced on the inside with the leg thingy bobs
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/3yrabe5y.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2013, 08:47:24 pm
Nearly all the new framing finished, can't find my dang leg bolts though
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/a7u8ypy2.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 02, 2013, 10:50:54 pm
Ran to Home Depot for some hardware I just had to see what the new framing looked like

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/duje9uqe.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/ytagyrev.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/4edese9a.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on June 03, 2013, 08:44:45 am
Wow, she's a tall broad ain't she?  ;D  Nice to see it coming together, how are you handling the side projection since you've reduced the panel size?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2013, 10:03:51 am
Yeah that back box is a bit nuts now I have redone the base, looks like it's going to need some redesign too, I need to relocate those speakers so I can drop the height.

Projection should actually be easier now that I have redesigned the screen area, it's not as long as it was, but it is higher which should fit the aspect ratio of the projectors better. The main thing was to make sure I was filling as much of the side as possible but while also retaining structural integrity. Also I wanted the screens to be an irregular shape that you couldn't achieve without projection.

Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 03, 2013, 10:16:16 am
I'd drop the height of the backbox down myself. The speakers make it look out of proportion, but I'm not sure there is anywhere to put them. I'd also mitre cut those sides, but if it's too late, it's too late.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2013, 10:27:48 am
Yep I think I'll have to have them fire up from behind the main back glass then I can bring the height back down.

I still have more bracing work to do inside the main box but as usual it's a game of millimeters making sure the playfield is as tight in as it can go and have cross braces without interfering with the light path of the projectors.  Hey why make something easy when you can make it crazy complicated
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Sshado on June 03, 2013, 11:24:42 am
Wow, you really emptied that garage out  :) Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: drventure on June 03, 2013, 11:33:56 am
Hey why make something easy when you can make it crazy complicated

Truer words I think have never been spoken!  :applaud:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2013, 01:29:09 pm
Yay!!!

I woke up to a flooded downstairs bathroom this morning, HAPPY MONDAY!!!!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/04/regevysy.jpg)

But while I was waiting for the plumber I decided to test out the projection on the new frame. I just stretched some of the gray lycra over the frame for a quick and easy test screen, but it's good enough to see the results...

Testing the new projection cabinet build (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkSCfxLXggM#ws)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: drventure on June 03, 2013, 01:45:48 pm
You gonna put two projectors in there, or just one and use some kind of mirror/beam splitter trick?

Also, where's the PC going to go?

Awesome idea, regardless. Really looking forward to how this comes out.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2013, 02:00:00 pm
Yep there will be two projectors. Splitting the beam would require some crazy optically perfect prism from space, I think the same type they used to imprison ZOD and his buddies in Superman.

There's space inside the cabinet for the PC, you just have to stay out of the path of the light beams.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: drventure on June 03, 2013, 02:08:49 pm
Yeah, i figure there's optics out there to do it, but they'd likely be more $$$ than a second projector.

You're gonna need some http://www.bigassfans.com/ (http://www.bigassfans.com/) for that puppy.  ;D
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2013, 03:29:41 pm
You're gonna need some http://www.bigassfans.com/ (http://www.bigassfans.com/) for that puppy.  ;D

Heat shouldn't be too much of an issue as the projectors themselves aren't housed within the cabinet but underneath it. The PJ exhausts are on the back so they will blow out to the sides of the cabinet. I'll definitely make sure I am moving some air through there just in case, but hopefully it won't be too nuts.
Title: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Monkeyvoodoo on June 03, 2013, 10:33:58 pm
This is such a cool idea. How is it in normal light? Washed out at all?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on June 04, 2013, 03:04:33 am
Yep there will be two projectors. Splitting the beam would require some crazy optically perfect prism from space, I think the same type they used to imprison ZOD and his buddies in Superman.

There's space inside the cabinet for the PC, you just have to stay out of the path of the light beams.

Heh heh all I could come up with was this...

"There is something very important I forgot to tell you."
"What?"
"Don't cross the streams."
"Why?"
"It would be bad."
"I'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing.  What do you mean bad?"
"Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light."
"Total protonic reversal."
"Right, OK that's Bad?  Alight, important safety tip, thanks Igon."

Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 04, 2013, 12:25:54 pm
Tell him about the Twinkie.

Finished creating the channels for the light path
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/e9e6e8y2.jpg)

Starting on the light box housing
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/taqasy3a.jpg)

Now I have my 'safe zones' that I can use for computers speakers wiring etc etc
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/yja2aqu3.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on June 04, 2013, 07:08:34 pm
Tell him about the Twinkie.

Heh heh!

"Well, let's say this Twinkie represents the normal amount of psychokinetic energy in the New York area. Based on this morning's sample, it would be a Twinkie... thirty-five feet long, weighing approximately six hundred pounds."

"That's a big Twinkie."

You can say that again!  Lookin' good Maximus.

Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 05, 2013, 09:25:56 am
Inverted optically centered dual projectors firing the same image at each other through a first surface mirror. Hopefully this won't cause a black hole or create a locked state of wave particle duality resulting in a non collapsing infinity of possible outcomes.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/u9ajedep.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nijhuus on June 05, 2013, 03:43:26 pm
WOW..just..WOW!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 05, 2013, 03:45:28 pm
You're gonna have to get the ABEC bearing upgrade for your power meter in the new house!

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 05, 2013, 04:03:14 pm
You're gonna have to get the ABEC bearing upgrade for your power meter in the new house!

AJ

i've got a flux capacitor I've been working on
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Jigenjuke on June 05, 2013, 09:38:26 pm
Inverted optically centered dual projectors firing the same image at each other through a first surface mirror. Hopefully this won't cause a black hole or create a locked state of wave particle duality resulting in a non collapsing infinity of possible outcomes.

Wow!  Maximus, Quantum Entanglement, String Theroy, and Quantum Physics Oh my!

Is there anything you don't have a handle on?? ;D

Seriously, what do you do for a living?

Jigenjuke
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 05, 2013, 11:19:45 pm
Lol I give rides in a crop dusting biplane for money ;)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 05, 2013, 11:42:30 pm
Saweet!  When I get out there I want to do some wing-walkin!  That's if the Cali gubment will let my tea-party ass in.

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 05, 2013, 11:47:27 pm
Plenty of you right wing walkers here in San Diego with all the military around here you should be fine.  As for me I'm neo-Buddhist
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 09:48:27 am
Boxing out the projection area
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/06/tazabu9y.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 06, 2013, 10:31:43 am
Griff-

Will you have easy access to the projector controls once this part is installed? You're going to eventually get filter warnings (though I suspect you won't be running it for long periods of time). Are you able to remove the filter covers with those slots you already have cut?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 12:11:05 pm
I'm not fully decided on how this unit is going to attach/dock with the main cabinet base, but whatever I do it will be easily removable for service, adjustment, cleaning and moving.

The quandary I am chewing over is one of vibration/shock and alignment. Because I'm working with extremely tight tolerances to get the maximum picture size in the smallest space, changes of angle or position of the projector as small as an eighth of an inch are enough to throw the projected images out of alignment. Also impact/shock and vibration could be an issue with hot projector bulbs breaking. Combine those issues with a style of machine that requires a bit of slamming and banging to play it properly and it causes some design headaches.

I'm still thinking over PL1's suggestions for a dynamic tilt built into the lock down bar area to minimize vibration through the cabinet and generally reduce the abuse the frame takes, not to mention the transmission of shock into the projector housing etc.

I may try keeping the housing completely separated from the case, just have it lifted into position under the cabinet. This way there's no chance of shock transmission and the cabinet will be heavy enough that it should stay put even with moderate to heavy nudging. Sure there may be a small chance of the cabinet moving out of alignment but it's an easy fix to realign and avoids the other risks of damaging the bulbs.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 06, 2013, 12:26:32 pm
Couldn't you float the entire thing under there and isolate the mirrors and projectors on that floating platform?  So, like base of cabinet, with a finish washer:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/10-Stainless-Steel-Finishing-Washers-6-Pack-32721/202706391#.UbC3OZzAnQM (http://www.homedepot.com/p/10-Stainless-Steel-Finishing-Washers-6-Pack-32721/202706391#.UbC3OZzAnQM)
then the platform hanging from that on long bolts with a phillips raised countersunk screw that goes through the finish washer, through the cabinet bottom and suspends the shelf underneath?

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/mcseforsale/heads_zpsedcfa023.jpg) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/mcseforsale/media/heads_zpsedcfa023.jpg.html)

AJ

I'm not fully decided on how this unit is going to attach/dock with the main cabinet base, but whatever I do it will be easily removable for service, adjustment, cleaning and moving.

The quandary I am chewing over is one of vibration/shock and alignment. Because I'm working with extremely tight tolerances to get the maximum picture size in the smallest space, changes of angle or position of the projector as small as an eighth of an inch are enough to throw the projected images out of alignment. Also impact/shock and vibration could be an issue with hot projector bulbs breaking. Combine those issues with a style of machine that requires a bit of slamming and banging to play it properly and it causes some design headaches.

I'm still thinking over PL1's suggestions for a dynamic tilt built into the lock down bar area to minimize vibration through the cabinet and generally reduce the abuse the frame takes, not to mention the transmission of shock into the projector housing etc.

I may try keeping the housing completely separated from the case, just have it lifted into position under the cabinet. This way there's no chance of shock transmission and the cabinet will be heavy enough that it should stay put even with moderate to heavy nudging. Sure there may be a small chance of the cabinet moving out of alignment but it's an easy fix to realign and avoids the other risks of damaging the bulbs.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 06, 2013, 12:33:58 pm
Vibration is a good thing to worry about. I deal with projectors on a regular basis in my job, and you don't want to jostle it so hard the optics get out of whack. If that happens, you can use 3D glasses to look at your sides, because that's how colors will be shifted. I had a teacher do that with a projector. He claims it must have "fallen off the cart somehow". Knowing the guy like I do, I think it was trying to commit suicide.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 12:35:37 pm
Yep hanging the unit may work as long as it isolates vibration a little.

I guess it's one of those things where I'm only going to really know when I have more of the unit ready for testing. I'm using a tilt bob from a real pinball machine modified with three contacts for the three nudge functions in the VPin games, not analog I know, but at least it will use real-world kinetic energy to fire the nudges. Until I know how much force that will require to fire a nudge it's all up in the air.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: drventure on June 06, 2013, 12:37:23 pm
You might try piecing together a larger version of the vibration isolation bolts commonly used in PC cases for harddrives (my antec uses them). Soft silicon washers on both sides of the case, and then screw into the HD goes a long way toward isolating it from vibrations and shock. just use bigger screws and washers.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 12:40:09 pm
Yep soft isolators will definitely be worth a try too, it would be nice to have the projection box mated to the main base for sure, I just have to experiment and find the most effective approach.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 12:46:51 pm
Maybe something like this

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61SVKaRgifL._AA1218_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Vibration-Dampening-Mounts-Threaded/dp/B0015HOKFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1370536924&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Vibration-Dampening-Mounts-Threaded/dp/B0015HOKFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1370536924&sr=1-2)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 06, 2013, 12:51:15 pm
You could create a curtain around the mounting area as to hide the isolation mechanism and provide light proofed-ness.

AJ


Maybe something like this

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61SVKaRgifL._AA1218_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Vibration-Dampening-Mounts-Threaded/dp/B0015HOKFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1370536924&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Rubber-Vibration-Dampening-Mounts-Threaded/dp/B0015HOKFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1370536924&sr=1-2)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 06, 2013, 12:59:27 pm
Yep I think it's worth a try, I got 4 shipped from eBay for $9. 6lb lateral isolation and 40lb vertical, that should be enough when combined with the other factors of the cabinet.

i really like the dynamic lock down bar idea as it removes the abuse from the cabinet in general so it's something I'll be spending extra time on to ensure I can get it right.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Leapinleny on June 07, 2013, 04:56:10 pm
Ok, I hadn't look at this thread for a week or so, dual projectors underneath the cabinet, are you kidding me :notworthy:, that is going to be so cool! The builds just keep getting more over the top. After I finish my Mame is it definitely going to be Pin build, but obviously nothing to this level, I just can't wrap my head around the engineering required  :applaud: :cheers:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 08, 2013, 12:14:39 pm
Speaking of engineering, this is getting pretty elaborate
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/he2ybetu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/pyze3ygu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/zarumu8u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/3ebe2y3a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/bu9ahuse.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 08, 2013, 12:26:33 pm
Bouncing the.light around can really catch you out. Here you can see part of the projector wall housing clipping into the bottom right of the picture when the beam shoots back off the mirror
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/uhaserum.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 08, 2013, 01:30:41 pm
As usual space is my enemy so I'm having to squeeze out every last mm.

The monster screen in place
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/qyzege6e.jpg)

The tightest part is where the screen meets the side art projection. They both fight for the same space as I want the screen to slope 4 inches over its length and have the glass rise above the screen 3 inches at the back of the cab to add a 3D effect to the playfield.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/emahu9am.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/uqe6apat.jpg)

But I also want the side art projection to fill as much of the cabinet sides as possible. Getting these to all play nicely together without getting in the way of the projected image is crazy.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/09/a8ydy8eq.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: TheShaner on June 08, 2013, 02:05:16 pm
Well thats pretty damned cool.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on June 08, 2013, 03:11:31 pm
Really like the more classic shape - good choice to revert I think.
So I am not wanting to interfear with your design chioces, but as someone who used tilt bobs for nudging for all of about half a day I would just like to quietly suggest they work  about as good as a chocolate tea pot :) .
Tilt bobs are great for tilting but not nudging IMHO, personally mercury switches worked fine for me but then I experimented with a sidewinder joypad and have not looked back after getting a taste of anologue nudging.
Anyway like I said i`m not wanting to intrude on your plans but wanted to relay my findings and threw together a quick vid...
And man if you think you are low on space, trust me its way more than me you lucky thing.
http://youtu.be/kZt-wSwEwiE (http://youtu.be/kZt-wSwEwiE)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 10, 2013, 11:47:25 pm
Thanks Rocky I'll have to check that nudging out it looks pretty amazing.

Fashioned some anti shock brackets with the bushings that arrived
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/jazu9epu.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 11, 2013, 12:19:55 am
How you gonna manage the heat of the projectors in there?

AJ
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 11, 2013, 12:32:25 am
How you gonna manage the heat of the projectors in there?

AJ

There are ventilation ducts in all the walls of the projection box so none of the airflow is restricted. Also I'll pull heat out of the back of the main cab with two large 200mm fans.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/aryge7e5.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 11, 2013, 10:20:02 am
More shaving to reduce the projection box profile as much as possible, looking more like an Escher painting every day.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/mezyguge.jpg)

The box protrudes an inch and a quarter from the cabinet edges this is the minimum focal distance I can get away with to fill the side screens.  Not a bad trade off considering the effect
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/unynamud.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/11/eha6ubeb.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 11, 2013, 10:34:14 am
Too bad it's not flush.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on June 11, 2013, 10:39:57 am
I think you should probably stick with nudge buttons on this one. I understand you're using the isolating mounts to reduce vibration on the projectors, but I think it may introduce another problem if you go with any kind of physical nudging. If the cab is nudged (or if you go with the lock down bar nudging mechanism and it is nudged hard enough), the cab will move somewhat. And with the projector box being isolated, it won't move as much as the cab does, when the cab does. I think this will cause the image projected on the sides to jump/jerk while nudging since the projectors won't be moving with the cab as it does. $0.02.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 11, 2013, 10:45:42 am
Actually, Neph brings up a good point. We've installed a ton of projectors over the years on my campus, and some of them are prone to vibrating, even from something like the air conditioner. We've even had to have the contractor come out to reinforce the mounts in some cases. How are the actual projectors being secured in the projector box?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 11, 2013, 12:16:29 pm
How are the actual projectors being secured in the projector box?

I'm thinking about attaching a mounting plate to the built in mounting holes on the base of the projector. The plate will have a screw thread that protrudes through the base of the projector box, then I can use that to torque the projector down to the base.

As for vibration it's definitely a concern but the only way to address it is to see what happens when it's in-situ and go from there.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 11, 2013, 01:06:41 pm
Took my wing-girl down to the store for more wood and paint, she likes to help out with dad's projects
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/12/ajepy5a3.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on June 11, 2013, 01:34:18 pm
What about using surgical tube (the soft silicone type) around those mounting screws as another level of bump absorbed-ness?

AJ

How are the actual projectors being secured in the projector box?

I'm thinking about attaching a mounting plate to the built in mounting holes on the base of the projector. The plate will have a screw thread that protrudes through the base of the projector box, then I can use that to torque the projector down to the base.

As for vibration it's definitely a concern but the only way to address it is to see what happens when it's in-situ and go from there.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 11, 2013, 03:06:57 pm
The mounting plate would torque the projector feet down against the floor of the box so it wouldn't really do anything as the feet would have a rigid point of contact with the projector box itself. I'll start with the current isolation mounts and then see if I need to add anything else after testing a bit, good thing is that it's all easily removed.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 15, 2013, 01:24:59 am
Hardly any progress this week but I did get the isolation mounts fitted
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/15/by3aqesy.jpg)

1/4 inch float between the projector box and the cab
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/15/ygadypap.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 15, 2013, 12:58:42 pm
Projection box mounted and floating under the cab
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/16/dugubu8a.jpg)

Started into the projection chambers
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/16/ezy3arab.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 15, 2013, 10:52:44 pm
Having to work around the projection beams while strengthening the cabinet is creating some super cool shapes and spaces

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/16/evyjy7yh.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/16/zuby7a4y.jpg)

What's not to love about a mitering jigsaw. This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite tools
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/16/te5upy8e.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 16, 2013, 02:54:28 pm
Just keep building just keep building. ..

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/ude5epu5.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/6uha3u3a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/9ajegusa.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/a9u5ybad.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/ezu6e8e6.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 16, 2013, 04:06:42 pm
Redid the back box for better proportions and back to the traditional look. My speakers are going to have to fire upwards.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/17/nume3aqy.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: floriske.nl on June 17, 2013, 03:16:05 am
Looking great so far!

I would love to build a virtual pin some day, but the costs and amount of work are holding me back for now.

Are you going to "dress up" te projection box as well to make it less of a "seperate" part of the machine?

[bs mode]
e.g. in a jetfighter theme you could mount some missiles to it  :timebomb: or make it pr0n based with some manequin doll legs on it and make a bunghole like in the barrel of kong in the coindoor with a nudge sensor in it  :censored: or maybe simply add some cupholders? :cheers:
[/bs mode]
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on June 17, 2013, 12:36:19 pm
Ya know, some arcade machines have a box to sit on instead of legs.  Just a thought. 

Google "Whoa Nellie Pinball" for ideas
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on June 17, 2013, 04:35:06 pm
Backbox looks much better, Griff. Good change.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on June 24, 2013, 06:25:17 pm
Ya know, some arcade machines have a box to sit on instead of legs.  Just a thought. 

Google "Whoa Nellie Pinball" for ideas

Ha ha ha, just got around to looking at this, pure genius

(http://michiganpinball.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/jm3.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 15, 2013, 11:40:20 pm
Back at it a bit.

I've now officially remade every last inch of this build. New backbox slotted and ready for mating with the base. I'm attempting a screen positioning trick which forced me to rejig.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/nuna2ere.jpg)

Sensei doesn't seem to care about my routing
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/vazaza8y.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 15, 2013, 11:58:39 pm
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/17/vy6u7uqu.jpg)

If you look at the bottom ultrawide monitor in the backbox you can see that the DMD doesn't fill it. I want to use this as an opportunity to do something below the DMD. So the idea is to have the top of the play field meet the the bottom of the ultrawide monitor as tight as possible, this will be approx 3" under the playfield glass at the very back of the box. The idea is the playfield glass retainer strip will sit in front of the ultrawide, essentially splitting it in two where the glass meets it, the DMD showing above, and the rest of the screen showing below.

If I can pull this off then the split, re-enforced by the presence of the glass and retaining strip, will allow me to have a video wall area at the back of the playfield where I can play animations or anything else I can think of, and of course the normal DMD above.

Hard to explain, will make more sense when I install it and can show it in action.

If you jump to the 2:00 mark in this video I explain it there with the rig running...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PcSpcuZY9Mo#at=120 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PcSpcuZY9Mo#at=120)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rablack97 on July 16, 2013, 12:47:55 am
You , Quizz Kidd and Ond are neck and neck in the mad scientist competition...

 :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 16, 2013, 09:54:52 am
Ill agree with the mad part, this build is making me nuts.

Cutting the rear seating for the back box
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/5e9uge9a.jpg)

I love it when a plan comes together
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/9e3uqana.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/zune6a3u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/e4utepe5.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 06:46:48 pm
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/6a8a4eby.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 07:09:05 pm
Zebs badass power boards and controllers
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/ysydehyd.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 07:39:07 pm
Coildnt resist giving the shiny bits a little test fit
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/7e5a9e9a.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on July 31, 2013, 07:43:19 pm
You going to have any room for your lockdown bar with that screen being all the way up against the front edge?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 07:55:01 pm
No I'm going to have to pull off something creative at the front for the controls and lockdown.  For now I'm just going to get the rest of the build done as I need to clear the thousand little challenges out of my head that are still waiting to be solved with this project.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 09:13:58 pm
I have more actuator clearance than I thought for the middle positions. I can move them further out so they are closer to the sides
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/e2umamy3.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on July 31, 2013, 09:23:42 pm
Wow, that is really turning out nicely.  Inspiring for sure.

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 10:47:07 pm
Thanks. I figured I need to turn up the dial and get serious about getting this done.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/ugujyhut.jpg)

Its definitely the weirdest thing I've built. After all the whole point of this box is to just to hide all of it's tricks as best as it can and let the screens do all the work. Its kind of an anti cabinet
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on July 31, 2013, 11:11:07 pm
The black has really brought the dimensions into place.  I don't think the udders will be noticeable at all.  You could always decorate around them.

But, this machine will have to be seen from both sides.  Not sure how that works into the master garage plan.

AJ

Thanks. I figured I need to turn up the dial and get serious about getting this done.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/ugujyhut.jpg)

Its definitely the weirdest thing I've built. After all the whole point of this box is to just to hide all of it's tricks as best as it can and let the screens do all the work. Its kind of an anti cabinet
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on July 31, 2013, 11:48:13 pm
There's no room for the speakers in the backbox so I wanted to do something cool with them.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/zu6yrapy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/e7u2yped.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on August 01, 2013, 12:07:46 am
Adds a little attitude and fun without increasing the height too much
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/01/qy7u4a8e.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: CraftyMech on August 01, 2013, 03:06:59 am
I am loving this build, but I am also distracted by that sweet looking Ikari Warriors cab in the background!
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: DGP on August 01, 2013, 03:57:49 am
I'll admit to not being a big Pin fan but this build is just off the wall incredible.  :o :notworthy:

 :cheers:
Jason
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on August 01, 2013, 08:40:48 am
I am loving this build, but I am also distracted by that sweet looking Ikari Warriors cab in the background!

What Ikari Warriors? I dont see anything
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Le Chuck on August 01, 2013, 08:51:11 am
I am loving this build, but I am also distracted by that sweet looking Ikari Warriors cab in the background!

What Ikari Warriors? I dont see anything

I told you to be careful with that camo - that stuff is wicked good at hiding things.  Now you'll just have to walk around until you bump into it. 
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: TopJimmyCooks on August 01, 2013, 09:13:08 am
how are you going to handle flipper buttons?  use something shallow like gold leaf's/japan stuff, or will regular ones fit below the PF monitor?  don't put them in a nonstandard place. 
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on August 01, 2013, 10:21:44 am
Foot pedals.

AJ

how are you going to handle flipper buttons?  use something shallow like gold leaf's/japan stuff, or will regular ones fit below the PF monitor?  don't put them in a nonstandard place.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on August 01, 2013, 10:45:43 am
Yeah i'll get the flipper buttons in there somehow.

Seems I'm a little cursed with all things electronic at the moment. Looks like the power board on the ultra wide monitor has taken a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. It came on for a short while this morning but then started dropping out a lot now it won't come on at all.  Getting a sporadic fizzing noise from the board.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: TheShaner on August 01, 2013, 10:55:13 am
You and your chronies sure do seem to be cranking out some machines.  Are you guys doing something like building an arcade?  Or are all of these just personal machines?
Title: Re: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on August 03, 2013, 11:20:37 am
You and your chronies sure do seem to be cranking out some machines.  Are you guys doing something like building an arcade?  Or are all of these just personal machines?

All my gear is for my personal collection. Fizgig is building 200 all original cabs and pins for a business he is opening.le Chuck is just insane
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on August 03, 2013, 11:26:29 am
Measured the cab today and its very close to stock dimensions.  55" deep, 68" high and just 1" wider than normal at 30" for the back box would have to come off for normal doorways.  Fortunately I won't have to deal with that as its going from one garage to another.

I'm pretty happy that I've managed to fit all of these almost impossible sizes into a regular sized cab
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on October 31, 2013, 01:26:27 pm
Getting ready to warm up the creative juices and dive back into this build.

A few things stopped me in my tracks, the house move being the main one, but also the ultrawide monitor decided to crap out and that really bummed me out. The power board was making a bunch of fizzing and crackling sounds, so I took a risk and bought a replacement one for about $60 and dropped it in.... nothing. So now I was into this older 720p monitor for about $330 total and it still wasn't working, needless to say this dinged my enthusiasm.

Fortunately, 2.9:1 displays have started to become a little more common place, and I managed to find a really good deal on a 29" Dell U2913WM 29 INCH Ultra Wide Monitor over at the Dell factory outlet, $380 inc tax and shipping gets me much newer tech, basically the same size and it's a 1080x2560 LED IPS display so hopefully it has a long and healthy life.

Any hoooooo, it's on it's way. I'm about 3-4 weeks out on my workshop being completed so then I'll be able to fully migrate all of my gear and projects out of the garage and focus on getting back down to business.

Also I've managed to recruit the super talented SJaak to help out on the software side of this build, he's going to take a bash at creating a custom front end that will support up to 4 monitors with the ability to show separate art/movie files on each of the four screens, so that's exciting too.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on October 31, 2013, 03:45:49 pm
So, what are you doing here?  Get back to work!

Re-subscribed.

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on October 31, 2013, 03:57:09 pm
So, what are you doing here?

Well, there's still a big blob of nothingness where my workshop should be...

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/31/vyjety2u.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on October 31, 2013, 04:36:41 pm
That looks good, though.  Doing those properly is A LOT of backbreaking work.

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on October 31, 2013, 04:40:45 pm
Yep it's going to make an awesome foundation for the shed, I want this thing to last, so learning from the three little piggies I decided that building this thing on brick was the best way to go.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: PL1 on October 31, 2013, 05:10:44 pm
Yep it's going to make an awesome foundation for the shed, I want this thing to last, so learning from the three little piggies I decided that building this thing on brick was the best way to go.
I thought they used concrete. (3:53)   ;D

Green Jello "Little Pig, Little Pig" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CYwNWHZuT0#)


Scott
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 04, 2013, 07:37:10 pm
Now we are getting somewhere
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/05/ydy8u5u5.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/05/a2yhype7.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on November 04, 2013, 09:15:21 pm
Before you get much further, you should cut a hole for an A/C unit....right there in the back.  Nothing's better than an air conditioned workspace.

Also, if yer keeping tools in there, I'd do a vapor barrier around the outside and on the floor.  That way, your tools won't rot and it'll stay nice and dry in there.

You gonna do some dust handling?  Or are you gonna cut outside?

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: TKW4rr10r on November 04, 2013, 09:31:30 pm
Also I've managed to recruit the super talented SJaak to help out on the software side of this build, he's going to take a bash at creating a custom front end that will support up to 4 monitors with the ability to show separate art/movie files on each of the four screens, so that's exciting too.

Is there a separate thread about this SW development? I was just asking about something like this on a thread in the SW section. My build wouldn't be anywhere nearly as complex, but was also looking for a way to play vids on a second screen and/or have the game selection on a separate monitor than the game play.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 05, 2013, 12:07:30 pm
Is there a separate thread about this SW development? I was just asking about something like this on a thread in the SW section. My build wouldn't be anywhere nearly as complex, but was also looking for a way to play vids on a second screen and/or have the game selection on a separate monitor than the game play.

No not yet there's nothing to see for now. The pre alpha will be built around this actual VPin build and we'll see how it goes from there.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 05, 2013, 12:11:57 pm
Before you get much further, you should cut a hole for an A/C unit....right there in the back.  Nothing's better than an air conditioned workspace.

Also, if yer keeping tools in there, I'd do a vapor barrier around the outside and on the floor.  That way, your tools won't rot and it'll stay nice and dry in there.

You gonna do some dust handling?  Or are you gonna cut outside?

AJ

You may be right on the AC, I need to go through a summer with it first, it really doesn't  get much above 85 here in the summer and the shed also has quite a lot of shelter from the surrounding trees. Same with the vapor barrier, we'll go an average of 170 days without rain in the summer months, and overall we average about 11" of rain a year.

As for dust I refuse to cut inside any more, it's makes a huge mess and just sucks ass, so I'd rather not cut anything if I cant cut outside, again fortunately the weather here means you'll never need to wait long for a suitable day to work outdoors.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 06, 2013, 10:53:43 pm
Dell monitor arrived today to replace the ultrawide. They are almost identical in size but the dell has a much much better resolution and screen in general.

This thing is heavy , must be all those pixels
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/07/uqyryda3.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/07/e7udaguh.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/07/6arepupu.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 14, 2013, 01:15:58 pm
OK peoples, this has been sidelined long enough!!!!!

I've finally got my workshop built and finished, I'm all moved in with power and lighting and have cleared a large part of the garage out so that I can really get some breathing room and be able to see where the barcade is going. All that being said, I really need to pull some focus and get back to this build.

I keep getting mentally overwhelmed by all the different parts of this build that sit outside of the norm and I think I've been letting myself get stuck in mental blocks.

So to get around this I'm going to break the project out into goals so I'm not trying to think about everything at once.

Goal 1. - GET IT WORKING!!!!!
Hyperpin is a bit of a pain in the ass itself, add into that the quirks of Virtual Pinball, FUture Pinball and then the different .exe releases of those that are matched to certain tables and not others and it all starts to get a little annoying. So I'm just going to configure Hyperpin to run a few tables and use those for testing, TAF, TZ and MM will be enough.

Goal 2. Hardware & Lighting
I have all the gear I need to control my motors, gears, shakers, contactors, strobes and LEDs so I just need to get in there and do all the wiring and get things configured properly, I think once I feel all the thuds, whirrs and other gizmos it will really get me excited and feel like I'm getting somewhere.

Goal 3. - Bezels, glass and dressing.
I really want to build a 3D bezel that runs along the inside of the cabinet and under the glass around the playfield. Also I'd like to incorporate some RGB lighting within this bezel so the entire sides of the playfield react to the lighting events. For the glass on the back box I want to do some paint masking and I really wanted to have some kind of subtle generic pattern in the masking so it didn't look so boring and black. Maybe I wont need it as it may take up so little space that it won't really matter.

Goal 4. - The rear projection sides.
I've decided that I want the sides to be solid pieces of acrylic that cover the entire side of the cab. They need to sit flush against the shape of the legs and also the side rails, so I'm going to need to make some kind of routing stencil to do that. Either the acrylic itself needs to be a frosted white with a matt, semi translucent finish, or I need to treat clear acrylic with a rear projection paint to get the quality of image I am looking for. I know how to do both, but it will come down to my ability to execute this properly and of course cost, some of those acrylics can get insanely expensive as they are so specialized. Also, mounting the acrylic on the side of the cab so there are no visible screws etc is going to be a challenge.

Goal 5. - Software, head tracking and FE configuration.
SJaak is helping out in the dept, but it's going to take us quite a while to nail it down and get it working just the way it needs to in order to really unleash the potential in this build. Done right, the whole cabinet will transform as you flip through the tables in the FE and of course when you launch the game, it should hopefully be the most convincing VPin you've ever seen showing full cabinet side art to match the play field and back box area. I also want to make use of the BAM system to really take the experience to the next level using head/face tracking to change the view of the play field as you move from side to side, see here...

BAM - Better Arcade Mode for real Future Pinball cabine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTtMQIO_5aU#ws)

Goal 6. - Nudging
First I have to work out if the machine is up to the abuse of nudging, especially with the dual projector configuration. If it is then I can decide which way to go and how to implement this properly.

Goal 7. - Lock down bar and likelihood of being able to still pull off the shmup controls.
Jamming such a large screen into a normal wide body pinball space has left me with basically zero space at the front of the cabinet, so I decided I would wait until I have the cab performing it's primary function properly and THEN decide if I can pull of the shmup controls in an elegant way, if not, then so be it.

If I stick to this list in this order then I should be able to make good progress at a decent pace, I just had to break it all out as all of this has been spinning around in my head, each section with it's own unknowns and problems, so hopefully this is my way through.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: mcseforsale on November 14, 2013, 01:29:00 pm
Personally, I think the SHMUP should be abandoned.  This thing will be a masterpiece without that.  I think the SHMUP controls will look like an afterthought on what it otherwise an inspired piece of engineering.

YMMV.

Oh, and  :notworthy:

AJ
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on November 14, 2013, 01:54:47 pm
Personally, I think the SHMUP should be abandoned.  This thing will be a masterpiece without that.  I think the SHMUP controls will look like an afterthought on what it otherwise an inspired piece of engineering.

+1.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: BadMouth on November 14, 2013, 01:56:26 pm
Personally, I think the SHMUP should be abandoned.  This thing will be a masterpiece without that.  I think the SHMUP controls will look like an afterthought on what it otherwise an inspired piece of engineering.

+1.

dedicated shmup cab! dedicated shmup cab! dedicated shmup cab! dedicated shmup cab! dedicated shmup cab! dedicated shmup cab!  :lol
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rCadeGaming on November 14, 2013, 04:57:39 pm
Personally, I think the SHMUP should be abandoned.  This thing will be a masterpiece without that.  I think the SHMUP controls will look like an afterthought on what it otherwise an inspired piece of engineering.

Have to agree.  Won't shmups work well on the MvC Evolution cab?  The monitor rotates and everything.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: opt2not on November 14, 2013, 05:03:58 pm
The people have spoken!
Ditch the shumppin' on this thing.  ;)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Superfrog on November 14, 2013, 05:17:05 pm
another thing maybe to look at is just to undo the body of the projector for more room to got the projector box right under the cabinet and not stick outside of the cabinet.

Or did you already look at that option?

Great to see this starting up again  :cheers:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 14, 2013, 05:22:13 pm
another thing maybe to look at is just to undo the body of the projector for more room to got the projector box right under the cabinet and not stick outside of the cabinet.

Or did you already look at that option?

Great to see this starting up again  :cheers:

Yep already looked at that and it wouldn't really give me anything, it would expose voltages though and be a dust magnet
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 29, 2013, 06:40:16 pm
Finally this project has started moving again. Replaced the dead screen with the new Dell monitor and spent a few hours reconfiguring everything. Got the Sound wired properly and it is amazing, such a difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90wkVDlPFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80hFbVbfBOo
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on November 29, 2013, 10:44:13 pm
Buttons in and programmed using a Kade controller. I got to play my first proper game which was pretty awesome.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/30/te7egu7u.jpg)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: wp34 on November 29, 2013, 11:40:19 pm
That looks really good.   :applaud:
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Superfrog on November 30, 2013, 07:35:08 am
There is no room for the lockdown bar.... or will it add later.
It's a big beast  :cheers: nice to see some progress.

I'm almost ready to start with my mini pinball bartop.

Greetings
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on December 02, 2013, 04:55:14 pm
Yeah the lockdown bar is going to be fabbed custom, if I ever finish this dang build  ;D
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: spoot on December 02, 2013, 07:49:01 pm
Yeah the lockdown bar is going to be fabbed custom, if I ever finish this dang build  ;D

What width?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Billy_Goatfeet on February 21, 2014, 10:57:09 am

  Amazing concept!  I am a bit late to the party but I can't wait to see how this turns out.  I think the SHMUPS joystick is a great  idea.  I was directed to this thread when I posted regarding doing the same thing for my upcoming build.  The obvious problem is finding the space for it, I think it would really add an exponential versatility to the project.  Following with great interest!

 :applaud:

BG.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 03, 2014, 03:18:30 pm
Griff I just saw your post over at Gopinball, please tell me you have not canned this? :dunno .
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Maximus on March 03, 2014, 03:21:03 pm
Griff I just saw your post over at Gopinball, please tell me you have not canned this? :dunno .

OK, I have not canned this..........but I have canned this  :P
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Sshado on March 07, 2014, 10:39:39 am
Woah, really? After all you have put into it?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 07, 2014, 11:13:59 am
I commend Griff for not dragging it out. Sometimes, you just know you want to move on from something, and you make the call to do it. It's not like he doesn't have other irons in the fire.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: blashyrk on March 08, 2014, 01:55:52 pm
I was so looking forward for this build to be completed.. Do you have any other plans for this cab ?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Nephasth on March 08, 2014, 11:43:55 pm
I will say this... As much as I wasn't a fan of this project, this is probably one of the biggest let downs in BYOAC history...
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 09, 2014, 03:43:40 am
I am sure that there is already a plan for that 50" decased tv - maybe a showcase?.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on March 09, 2014, 12:21:32 pm
I am sure that there is already a plan for that 50" decased tv - maybe a showcase?.

He hung it on the wall to use as a TV.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: rockyrocket on March 09, 2014, 02:10:42 pm
I am sure that there is already a plan for that 50" decased tv - maybe a showcase?.

He hung it on the wall to use as a TV.
That`s a novel idea, but I do not think it will catch on. ;)
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Namco on March 11, 2014, 12:11:57 pm
Man, I've been captivated by this project for the past day or two reading through the 13 pages eagerly anticipating the final reveal at the end to see how close the finished product came to the original vision.

On pages 1-10, it inspired me to revive my dream of building a virtual pinball table, but by page 11-13 became a cautionary tale of what not to do. Gotta keep it simple, I guess. Start with the lockdown bar, build the cabinet around the width of the lockdown bar, mount buttons, find a playfield monitor that will fit the space, use one monitor for the backglass and DMD, THEN once the monitors are mounted with the hardware start messing with software, resolutions, and artwork.

Then in the back of my mind I think about the the vpin tables I've seen in the flesh at California Extreme didn't amaze me like I thought they would. The flat 2D effect and relatively low resolution screens were a big turnoff. Maybe BAM with 4K displays are the future?
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: TKW4rr10r on March 12, 2014, 05:04:49 pm
Then in the back of my mind I think about the the vpin tables I've seen in the flesh at California Extreme didn't amaze me like I thought they would. The flat 2D effect and relatively low resolution screens were a big turnoff. Maybe BAM with 4K displays are the future?

I've been nervous of this myself. It's an investment to be sure building even a lower spec build. You'll have to be completely satisfied by the end result or suffer from builder's remorse. I'm thinking of building a smaller v-pin first to get the experience needed to tackle something like this in the next year or so. Hopefully by then the 4K screens will be better priced for the investment. That with BAM I believe will give an awesome effect, or at least the best you can have for a v-pin.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: Keroppi on February 14, 2020, 08:33:46 am
I nominate this build for the "one that got away 2020".

This was seriously one of the most interesting and innovative builds that I ever saw fizzle out at over 75+% completion.
Title: Re: Alchemy: Video Pinball Shmup Table
Post by: yotsuya on February 14, 2020, 08:56:25 am
Sorry, the 5 years statute of limitations has passed. Drive safely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk