The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: yo1dog on December 20, 2009, 01:20:21 pm
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(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/TitlePlanet.png)
Welcome to the brand new revision of The Corner Arcade now know as Planet Arcade.
February 24, 2010
Started the Planet Arcade Mini Project (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=98933)
Original Post:
Hey guys, looking for some advice, opinions, and comments. I have built a semi-basic cabinet before and now I am ready to step it up.
To begin, between me and my Dad we both feel that we have the woodworking skills to accomplish this. My Dad especially has been doing this kinda thing for years and years and is very skilled.
I haven't seen anything like this before so I feel cool, however, if someone knows of any similar projects that would be great so I can look at theirs.
The objective was to have a full four player cabinet without taking up a huge amount of wall space. I also decided to have two monitors. This will enable a feature I am very excited about. The ability to play two separate 2 player games at the same time (one on each screen) or to play a single 4 player game (projecting the game on both screens). I can also code very well so writing software for switching modes wont be a problem. In fact, I am almost done with it. A potential problem I can think of is the ability of my graphics card to be able to play two games at once. I assume that it wont be a problem if the games are running at or close to their native resolutions. Even with my GeForce 8800 GT 512MB I get momentary lag on Metal Slug... then again it is running at 1680x1050 with multiple apps such as Photoshop and 3Ds Max running in the background... I really don't know.
I also had another idea. I have a 7" TouchScreen LCD that I was going to put in my car but never did. My idea was to have the list of games on the touchscreen as well as the ability to switch the 2 and 4 player modes. Players could them simply touch the game they wanted on the list. This would also allow me to use my computer without pulling out a mouse and keyboard. Of course I would use a password lock so players could not exit my MAME system and mess with Windows.
Still working on the artwork... I'm no artists :P. If anyone would like to submit something I would love to see it. I will provide blueprints and such below.
A few questions:
- I am looking for a good lightgun. I have an Act-Labs that I bought years ago but that requires a CRT monitor. Both the TopGun and Capcon guns look good to me. Suggestions?
- Where can I get a 22" 4:3 Ratio LCD? Perhaps these don't exist..
- How important is it to have stereo sound instead of mono?
Updates:
February 15, 2010
I got a great idea that I am excited to start working on soon. See my thread about an AimTrack in a "Real" Gun (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100291.0).
(http://www.airsoftgi.com/images/imagecache/200x143_wemuenewA.jpg)
February 7, 2010
I have been working on making the cabinet mobile. The simplest solution seemed to be to make the cabinet be able to break down into pieces. I made an animation showing how this will work. An Updated Sketchup model has been uploaded as well.
Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y03vTFOKOIg#)
January 21, 2010
Changed from The Corner Arcade to Planet Arcade.
January 18, 2010
Trying out a new control panel design:
Removed
And a new marquee:
Removed
January 13, 2010
Almost done with my MAME Collection Manager and Front End programs. Created a video demo.
I am trying out some new designs for the control panel. Here is a more colorful one; I don't know if I like it very much:
Removed
January 04, 2010
Finished the visual part of the Front End program. As I keep saying, I am no artist. I am going to provide the PSD file if anyone wants to tweak it.
December 31, 2009
I just finished increasing the radius of the cabinet by 5". This allows me to have up to 24" 4:3 LCDs... if I could find one. So for now they are 20". I have also redesigned the control panel as to have the trackball centered and to give players 1 and 4 more space between them and the wall. The touchscreen was also added in. Artwork was tweaked a little... still not the best.
You may also notice the position of the coin slots. I thought this was a cool idea to have it on the control panel where it can be easily accessed. Basically, I will take the top coin slot and reject button off of the mounting plate and attach it to the control panel. Then I will cut a slit into the control panel and put in a track for the coin to roll into the mech which is located underneath the control panel. Here is a picture:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CoinExample.png)
I also plan on replacing the reject button with one of these (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=295) cool push buttons which will be lit when the player can press it to add a credit.
I got a few ideas for paying to play:
Arcade Mode
When the player puts in quarters, MAME keeps track of the number of credits the player inserted. Then, while playing a game, the player presses the credit button to use their credits on the specific game. This will allow players to insert quarters when they are not in a game or if they decide to switch games they wont loose any unused credits.
Timed Mode
Each credit gives the player a certain amount of time with unlimited credits to play with. The player uses the credits by pushing the credit button.
Unlimited Mode
The player pays an initial number of credits and then has an unlimited number of credits and unlimited time to play. The obvious problem with this one is the ability for players to hand over their unlimited time to someone else when they are done. I figured that I could add a "End Session" option and also use an idle timer that will automatically end the session after so long of being idle.
Free Mode
Everything is free... obviously.
These cold also have multipliers applied. For example, in arcade mode I could make it so every quarter gives the player 2 credits instead of one. I am not at all concerned with making money. Just some ideas.
And here are some images and some SKetchUp, Layout, and PDF files.
3Ds Renders:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabRenderPlanet3-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Cab%20Render%20Planet%203.png) (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabRenderPlanet-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Cab%20Render%20Planet.png) (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabRenderPlanet2-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Cab%20Render%20Planet%202.png) (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/ControlPanelRenderPlanet-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Control%20Panel%20Render%20Planet.png)
Control Panel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/ControlPanelArtPlanet-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Control%20Panel%20Art%20Planet.png)
Marquee:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/MarqueePlanet-Small.png) (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Marquee%20Planet.png)
Sketch Up:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabSketch.png) (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabSketchSide.png) (http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/CabSketchLines.png)
Front End Program:
Link (http://www.screentoaster.com/watch/stVE5TQ0JIR19cRF9ZWV9YUF5T/mame_collection_managerl)
Files:
Cabinet SketchUp (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/UMAME%20Cabenit%20-%20Vert%20Screens.skp)
Control Panel Layout (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Control%20Panel.layout)
Control Panel PDF (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Control%20Panel.pdf)
Bezel Layout (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Bezzel.layout)
Bezel PDF (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Bezzel.pdf)
Marquee Layout (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Marquee.layout)
Marquee PDF (http://yo1dog.comlu.com/UMAME/Marquee.pdf)
What do you guys think? Pretty cool, huh? All constructive advice and comments are more than welcome.
:(
Well now some bad news; The actual construction of this project will be delayed till this summer. This is due to my current lack of funds (Had to buy textbooks). The school also moved me to a new dorm room which is smaller. I will be moving into a house next semester so I should have room then.
But, this could also be good news. I have plenty of time to work out the details and save some cash. After months of working on this thing it should be just about perfect.
Bear with me guys.
Thanks,
- Mike
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I've not seen this before!
Love it. Great Sketchup model btw.
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Thanks, put quite a few hours into that baby.
You've probably noticed that everything is nicely grouped so that you can hide parts of the model to see other parts better.
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I love it!!! It also gives me some interesting ideas for some of my projects. Keep us informed as the project goes on.
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Very interested to see how you end up getting the two monitors to switch back and forth between 4 player simultaneous and 2 player with separate games. That sounds freakin awesome!
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Genuinely great idea! Space saving/game modes/shape! All great! Can't wait too see this finished!
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Very ambitious project (and very cool)... I'll be watching closely to see how you pull all this off.
One thing on the trackballs... generally having the trackball off-center in relation to the screen is not a good thing. You may want to re-consider that design decision. At the very least, if you can, try doing some play testing with the trackball like that.
As far as the name.... well to me the obvious one would be "The Corner Arcade" which obviously can have two meanings.
Good luck!
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I dont think I have seen this idea before, and I like it.
Good luck and keep us informed!
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This is a fun project indeed. :-*
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Maybe you should consider one vertical and one horizontal monitor...
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Okay, I've been staring at this thing for a while, and more questions are popping into my head:
1) How tall is this thing? The top seems sorta disproportionately tall. Is there a technical reason for all the extra mass/height up there? I see a big open cavity up there, and I'm wondering if it has a purpose I'm not seeing?
2) What size monitors did you plan this around? Those look like 4:3 monitors, which are probably max of 21". That seems like a big structure to have such tiny monitors, IMHO. I realize you're bound by the two-screen design to a big degree as far as how wide of a monitor you can put there, but just an observation.
3) I assume, by the design of the top, and the vertical supports every few inches, that you don't plan to have a back-lighted marquee?
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It does seem a tad tall, too much area above the monitors, but other than that, very cool idea :applaud:
I love the CP layout, and dual screens. Lots of possibilities with something like this (and you don't have to worry with side art :)
Definitely post build pics!
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Wow just when you think you have seen it all. This is really cool and original. I am real anxious to see how this turns out.
Maybe you should consider one vertical and one horizontal monitor...
I agree. Sorta kills the 4p idea but man what a need idea for both vertical and horizontal in one cabinet.
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Sick design, dude. I thought about a corner arcade but I didn't think to put two monitors in it, great idea.
I assumed when looking at the design that it is meant to span from the floor to ceiling which is why it looks abnormally tall. I imagine the intent is to make it look as if it is built into the corner. Amirite?
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- I am looking for a good lightgun. I have an Act-Labs that I bought years ago but that requires a CRT monitor. Both the TopGun and Capcon guns look good to me. Suggestions?
AimTrak AimTrak AimTrak. I love it.
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Hot damn, that is one wicked design. Bookmarked.
Re: the graphics question -- I haven't been doing much with modern games on Mame lately (only just got back into it after a couple years), but I would think an 8800 or better could handle two average games at once. What CPU do you plan to use? I would think you'll need a quad-core or at least a strong dual-core.
I would like to second the question about the marquee; do you plan to use a non-lighted one? Maybe the question should be: is the blue area at the top for the marquee, or the split section below it? I think a split marquee would be interesting too. Regardless, I must say that if I were doing an upright, I would definitely want a lighted marquee. It adds so much to the overall effect.
Anyway, excellent job in the design phase. I'll be following this for sure. If you are going to write software for handling video modes and such, will you be blogging/posting that process somewhere? I'd be very interested in following that part of your project as well.
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heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:
http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1 (http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1)
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heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:
http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1 (http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1)
Cool, never seen that before!
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Awsome, you could do a doctor who theme on it. Many hours of construction fun there.
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Wow, thanks for all the support! :D
I will defiantly keep you guys updated... Only problem is that I have to go back to school in 3-4 weeks so after that progress will be slowed because I will only be able to work on weekends.
I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit. If you hide the top of the SketchUp model you can see the florescent light in there. I wish I was good enough with 3Ds Max to make it look actually lit. Will mess around with that.
As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea. You can see the problem by looking at the bezel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj216/yo1dog/UMAME/Bezzelexample.png)
I will post up my source and program as soon as I get closer to the finished product.
Yes, the cabinet is quite tall at 6' 4" (~2 m). This allows the marquee at top to stick out much farther without it being right in the players face (assuming the player isn't very tall... me being only 5' 8" it should be fine).
EDIT:
Anyone know of any games that have simultaneous 2 player and require a trackball or spinner (like a co-op Centipede or something)? I ask because I am wondering if I should include functionality to be able to play 2 player on two screens (same game on both screens) so that both players can use a trackball or spinner... I might include this anyway just so players have the option of being more spread out. Basically, even if the game is two player, the player can still set it so that it projects on both screens. This way Player 1 will use the red controls and Player 2 will use the green controls and will be spread out more so they wont be bumping elbows.
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I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit.
Two comments on this. First, that's a pretty dark marquee. Not sure how well that's going to light up. You might consider either brightening up the lettering a bit, or at least add some glow to them to help them pop a little more.
Also, those vertical supports you have every few inches in the marquee area are going to cast shadows all across your marquee. Not sure if you thought about that, but figured I'd mention it. Hmm... maybe you could use strips of clear acrylic glued in there instead of wood....
As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea.
Oh my! 17" is TINY, especially for such a large cab. For me that would be a major deal breaker. The display can make or break the experience. I can't even imagine playing on anything less than a 21". With the 4:3 orientation, and considering the distance from the players, I would think the experience, especially with vertical games, would be pretty disappointing. And light gun games?? Forget it...
IMHO, unless you can change the design to allow larger displays, I would have to consider scrapping the dual display idea and just go for one LARGE display, while still keeping the corner design.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and ultimately this is all my (educated) opinion. I give you huge kudos for thinking out of the box (no pun intended). But, in the end, all the ingenuity is for naught if it requires such big compromises in the quality of gameplay. :-\
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I do plan on having a marquee. I just haven't done the art for it yet. The transparent, light-blue is where it will go. And yes, it will be back-lit.
Two comments on this. First, that's a pretty dark marquee. Not sure how well that's going to light up. You might consider either brightening up the lettering a bit, or at least add some glow to them to help them pop a little more.
Also, those vertical supports you have every few inches in the marquee area are going to cast shadows all across your marquee. Not sure if you thought about that, but figured I'd mention it. Hmm... maybe you could use strips of clear acrylic glued in there instead of wood....
As far as the small screens; It is the 15 degree angle of the screens that make the max size so small. The ones that I have in there now are a measly 17". This is the major downfall of this idea.
Oh my! 17" is TINY, especially for such a large cab. For me that would be a major deal breaker. The display can make or break the experience. I can't even imagine playing on anything less than a 21". With the 4:3 orientation, and considering the distance from the players, I would think the experience, especially with vertical games, would be pretty disappointing. And light gun games?? Forget it...
IMHO, unless you can change the design to allow larger displays, I would have to consider scrapping the dual display idea and just go for one LARGE display, while still keeping the corner design.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and ultimately this is all my (educated) opinion. I give you huge kudos for thinking out of the box (no pun intended). But, in the end, all the ingenuity is for naught if it requires such big compromises in the quality of gameplay. :-\
Marquee was a quick, 5 minute thing. Just so people know there is a marquee.
If I were to simply take out the angle I could put in two 24" vertically... I might just do that... or I could put in a massive 32".. but that is getting expensive.
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Marquee was a quick, 5 minute thing. Just so people know there is a marquee.
Sorry to jump the gun on that. Didn't realize it was just a placeholder.
If I were to simply take out the angle I could put in two 24" vertically... I might just do that... or I could put in a massive 32".. but that is getting expensive.
By 24" I assume you're referring to widescreen monitors? A widescreen oriented vertically is probably less than ideal. If that's your best option for dual screens, my vote would be for a single 32". A 32" LCD TV can be had for around $300-$350. Not sure what you had budgeted for the display, but this is one area where I can unequivocally say you do not want to scrimp.
One more thing to think about in your planning... considering the outermost players will presumably be standing beside a wall while playing, will they have enough room to do so comfortably, without being cramped? Even a large-ish person?
Anyway, I hope my feedback is helping and not bringing you down. In the end, this is your project, and it's your choice how you build it. Just trying to provide you food for thought. :cheers:
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Also bear in mind how easy it will be to move this thing. Is it door height or ceiling height - if its close to ceiling height you won't be able to tilt it much!
ie. You have to tilt it to get in the room, through the doorway but can't get it back upright.
Hope that made sense.
Good luck!
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What would be so bad about the two 24" verticals?
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What would be so bad about the two 24" verticals?
I think he's getting at the fact that a vertical widescreen monitor won't gain you much. Most vertically oriented games won't utilize the extra height, and horizontally oriented games will be tiny. That's in my experience--which, granted, does not include building cabinets (only just started my cocktail (http://"http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=98954.0")). But it seems to me that if you're going vertical with the monitors, you'd be better off with standards rather than widescreens.
Of course, a vertical widescreen is better than a horizontal one for the vertical games. I think it comes down to what you plan to be playing most, and which games you want to provide the best experience for. Alternatively, you could include in your design some means of rotating the monitors while in use (I've seen cocktails designed that way, but I don't think I've seen an upright like that yet).
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I have decided to go with one 32" and reducing the angle to 5 degrees. It simply works better and I think it looks better as well. I am not abandoning the 2x2P or 1x4P idea. I will simply have to split the screen using a program to display two games on each half.
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On second thought... if I could find a 24" square or 3:4 monitor, that would be best. Anyone know where I could get one?
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On second thought... if I could find a 24" square or 3:4 monitor, that would be best. Anyone know where I could get one?
I think about 21" is probably as big as you're going to find in a 4:3 monitor. I have seen some dedicated arcade LCDs that are larger (25" I believe), but they are quite expensive as I recall.
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Ya I saw those two. Cheapest was around 500 bucks a pop.
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heh, Nintendo did something similar actually:
http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1 (http://davesgameroom.com/GameDetail.aspx?GID=1)
Is there a project link of sorts ?
That's just a standard Dual System cabinet in that link. (factory dual game/monitor)
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Looks like an interesting project, I like it!
I agree, keep mobility in the back of your mind. Moving that as one piece would be a bear. Maybe you could make it in 2 pieces with a cleverly concealed meeting point?
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That's what I have been trying to think of. The side panels are kinda key the structural integrity of the whole cabinet... perhaps I could cut it in half vertically at the control panel. That could also allow the removal of the control panel.
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I have been playing around with the model and I noticed that by increasing the radius by 5" I have ample room to fit two 20" 4:3 LCDs at a 15°. By decreasing the angle a bit I could bump it up to 22". Only problem is that I can't find any 22" 4:3 LCDs. Anyone know of one?
Edit:
Forgot to mention the obvious advantage of a more spread out control panel. This will allow players 1 and 4 to be further away from the wall and I can easily center the trackball.
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Please dont take this as an overlay negative feedback, but I dont think the premise will work that well in practice as it does in theory.
2 screen 4 player cabs are more gimmicky then anything else. Cyberball and "Run n Gun" are the only 2 that come to mind that did it right, and it was only because team 1 and 2 had their own perspectives; something you cant really do in MAME. I dont really understand the need of having 2 smaller monitors when you could just get 1 bigger one.
Also, you have far too many controls on there, its just not needed. 44 buttons, 4 sticks, 2 spinners, 2 trackballs? seems a bit excessive. I would rethink this with a more practical mindset. Why not a 4 player NBA jam style cab thats wedged in the back for a corner? Now dont get me wrong, I love the asthetics of your cab, but in the end I think youre going to put too much time, energy, and most importantly MONEY into this and a cab that looks great but doesnt play well.
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I have to disagree with you there and I think may not understand exactly what is going on.
"Team" 1 and 2 DO have their own perspectives. I am working with the MAME source to enable it to have two copies running at the same time on each display. I built a model using one large 32" tv and the problem you run into is that player 1 and 4 are seeing the screen from a 45° angle.
Yes I do realize that there are a lot of controls on this baby. This is to support the ability to play two games at once as well as navigate two menus at once. Its more like 2 sets of 2 joysticks, a trackball, and a spinner. I don't feel that the controls are too jammed together either and will still play well.
I appreciate your input :)
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I have been playing around with the model and I noticed that by increasing the radius by 5" I have ample room to fit two 20" 4:3 LCDs at a 15°. By decreasing the angle a bit I could bump it up to 22". Only problem is that I can't find any 22" 4:3 LCDs. Anyone know of one?
Now you're getting up to acceptable screen size, though I would still say that 20" is pretty much the bare minimum size for a 2 player cab. I'm not aware of any 22" 4:3 LCDs.
Since you're effectively building two arcade machines in a single cabinet, I can't help but think you'd save yourself a lot of headaches by just using two computers and be done with it. I have a feeling you're going to run into all kinds of unforeseen issues down the road by trying to run two machines simultaneous instances on one computer.
Just depends on your pain threshold really, and how much time and effort you're willing to spend to try to make it work. Worst case, if your current plan doesn't work out, using two computers is a good fallback option. Yes, you will lose the ability to play 4 players games, but honestly, there aren't very many of them anyway. I can't tell you how many people I've seen on this forum that built 4-player cabs and said they wish they would have just built a 2-player.
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Whichever I decide the cabinet is going to be exactly the same.
I really hope I am able to get my idea to work. I've been working on the code a lot and it seems to be going well so far.
I won't be running two copies of windows, just two copies of my modded MAME program.
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Well, regardless of the final outcome, I applaud your willingness to try something new. Just the fact that you have the coding ability to attempt this is impressive. :cheers:
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I have to disagree with you there and I think may not understand exactly what is going on.
"Team" 1 and 2 DO have their own perspectives. I am working with the MAME source to enable it to have two copies running at the same time on each display. I built a model using one large 32" tv and the problem you run into is that player 1 and 4 are seeing the screen from a 45° angle.
Yes I do realize that there are a lot of controls on this baby. This is to support the ability to play two games at once as well as navigate two menus at once. Its more like 2 sets of 2 joysticks, a trackball, and a spinner. I don't feel that the controls are too jammed together either and will still play well.
I appreciate your input :)
I do understand whats going on, I was sure to digest it all before replying, thats why I waited a few days =)
the only way you gonna have each "team" have their own perspective is if
1) the game supports it
2a) You either run 2 PCs with their own copy of MAME (which will break a large number of 4 player games)
2b) you run 2 instances of MAME to their own screen from 1 PC, and I dont think they make computers fast enough to do that; and you'd hafta have a way to switch between 1 MAME for some 4 player games and 2 MAMEs for other 4 player games
Now I read you're modding the MAME source, but I cant think of how MAME can output 2 video outputs without acting like (and using up similar CPU cycles) as 2 MAMEs but I dont wanna be a debbie downer, and I wish ya the best of luck.
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Oh, my bad :)
I think I misunderstood what you meant by "perspective". I thought you were referring to each team having their own screen. I think you meant two teams playing the same game but seeing a different parts of the game. Is this correct? In that case, no, I don't plan on having support for such games. I didn't even know they exist. Perhaps I will work on this after sense that would be a software problem.
2b. is what I am going for. I already have the parts for the computer including a 2.4 GHz intel Quad Core and an nVidia 8800 GT 512MB as well as 4GB of DDR2 RAM at 800MHz. Also, remember that most games run at low resolutions.
I am pretty confidant in my coding abilities, considering my job is to write native windows applications. I am also very familiar with both DirectX as well as OpenGL. I don't want to sound cocky but I bet I can do this :). I do agree that there is no way around using two threads, one for each emulation.
Thanks for the luck! I will probably need it :P
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I think the system you're putting in there should handle 2 instances at once, for the most part. I haven't actually tried it, but I have noticed that on my 2GHz C2D notebook that MAME running a game like MK3 or so uses about 80% of one core. If you don't plan to run 2 instances of SF4 or something, you should be fine.
Yes, I believe by "each team [having its own] perspective," he meant "different parts of the game," the same game. As is the case in, say, a multiplayer network game.
If you just want a duplicate display of the same game for each team, that would be easily done by simply using nVidia's "clone" option for multiple desktops. Similarly, wouldn't it be simpler to use DualView for two separate instances? I guess I'm a little fuzzy on what mods you're making to the MAME software that couldn't be accomplished with normal video settings.
I'm a programmer and open-source advocate myself, so don't think I'm discouraging the modding! I personally tend to take the easier route with things like this (especially with DirectX and such, which I know almost nothing about). I'm really just interested in exactly what changes you are making, and how they improve on the easier method.
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The tricky part is giving the players the ability to switch the 2/4 player modes. It should be able to be done with a single button or menu option. Basically the player shouldn't have to do any work. Also, the input has to be able to go to both emulations at the same time. The way MAME is now, this is not possible.
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OK, I see.
What I was proposing would be one emulation with a duplicated screen. But that only works for 4 players on the same game. I guess if I was faced with that problem, I'd set up a hotkey to switch between clone and Dualview modes, and hope that each MAME instance keeps its monitor affinity (or figure a way to force it on startup).
But I still don't quite understand why control input needs to go to two separate instances at once...? Maybe I'm just having trouble visualizing the result.
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Hmm let me make a quick picture... (2 minutes later)
Oops It is supposed to say Team 1 Controls and Team 2 Controls...
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=98933.0;attach=138980)
The top shows it in two player mode. Player 1 and 2's controls must be registered by the emulation displayed on the first screen (Emu 1) while Player 3 and 4's controls must be registered by the emulation on the second screen (Emu 2). The bottom shows in four player mode. All Players' controls must be registered on the only emulation (Emu 1) which is simply displayed on both screens.
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OK, that's basically what I thought you were saying. I think I see what it is you're doing with the MAME code.
Is it turning out to be fairly easy to do that, though? I would think it would be simpler to write a frontend.
You'd choose between 1/2 teams in the frontend. It would launch a single instance for 1-team, and 2 instances for 2-team. In the latter case, it would pass whatever arguments are required to display each instance on the appropriate screen, as well as specify a configuration file for each (for mapping controls).
In modifying MAME, are you spawning two individual emulations from a single MAME process? I suppose that could be a bit more efficient than running two separate instances, but I'm not entirely sure. I don't even know that it matters on a quad-core.
Nevermind, just went back again and saw that you had said "two copies of [the] modded MAME program."
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Like I keep saying, there really is no way around rewriting some of the code. Not major parts but still. Here is why:
- In fullscreen mode, the emulation's window must have the focus to accept input and, of course, you cannot have the focus on two windows at once.
- The emulation's window must have focus to remain in fullscreen mode.
- When switching 2/4 player modes, you also have to switch the controls for each emulation. When switching to 2 player mode you have to tell the first emulation not to use player 3 and 4's controls and you have to tell the second emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 1 and player 2. When switching to 4 player mode you have to tell the first emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 3 and player 4.
- When switching to 4 player mode you have to close the second emulation (or pause and hide it) and when switching to 2 player mode you have to create the second emulation (or resume and show the last).
- Changing the resolution, positioning the windows, and setting the display modes will be much easier done through native Windows code.
None of this is super complicated, though I keep running into some dumb problems.
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Anyone know where I can get a 3" clear crystal sphere to use as a trackball? I think that would look so cool with some lighting underneath!
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yo1dog:
Nice concept! Let us know how this "baby" turns out for you.
Great idea!
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yo1dog:
Nice concept! Let us know how this "baby" turns out for you.
Great idea!
Thanks man!
I am currently working on increasing the radius by 5". This allows me to have a much bigger screen. I am also re-working the control panel so that players 1 and 4 are farther away from the wall.
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3" trackball. Check out my thread (link in the sig) for some info on trackballs. I found that just going out and buying a 3" acrylic sphere WON"T necessarily get you something you can use as a trackball (they aren't necessarily true).
But I'm pretty sure HAPP, or GGG, sells the balls by themselves.
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Hmm. Interesting stuff. Very cool project as well.
I am liking the Electric ICE (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=74&products_id=273) with the RGB-Overdrive. I can make some cool computer-controlled effects with that. I think I am going to incorporate some lighted pushbuttons as well. Haha I could turn the control panel into a light show.
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Like I keep saying, there really is no way around rewriting some of the code. Not major parts but still. Here is why:
- In fullscreen mode, the emulation's window must have the focus to accept input and, of course, you cannot have the focus on two windows at once.
- The emulation's window must have focus to remain in fullscreen mode.
- When switching 2/4 player modes, you also have to switch the controls for each emulation. When switching to 2 player mode you have to tell the first emulation not to use player 3 and 4's controls and you have to tell the second emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 1 and player 2. When switching to 4 player mode you have to tell the first emulation to use player 3 and 4's controls for player 3 and player 4.
- When switching to 4 player mode you have to close the second emulation (or pause and hide it) and when switching to 2 player mode you have to create the second emulation (or resume and show the last).
- Changing the resolution, positioning the windows, and setting the display modes will be much easier done through native Windows code.
None of this is super complicated, though I keep running into some dumb problems.
OOHHHH I see now. I completely hadn't thought about the fullscreen/focus problem. :banghead:
That totally makes sense now. I can't think of another way around that, either. Switching controls would still be pretty simple using a frontend to load different config files, but I guess it's just as easy to put it in the MAME code since you're already in there anyway.
I got you now. Sorry about that.
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No problem my friend.
Originally I was writing a fronted and thought of the same thing. Great minds... :)
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Just stumbled onto this...great concept, and I look forward to it's progress!
I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?
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I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?
Heh.... ever been to a real arcade before? ;)
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I do have a sound based question however..how do you anticipate dealing with sound bleeding over from one person playing a game to the other who is playing a separate game, short of headphones?
Heh.... ever been to an arcade before? ;)
Haha. This made me laugh.
My father is also very good with acoustics and my grandfather is even better. They are going to help me build a casing for the speakers to help direct the audio.
This brings up another issue that I forgot to mention: The splitting of the audio for each team. I plan to use a 4.1 or 5.1 speaker set and make MAME output the left and right audio for team 1 to the front left and right channels and output team 2's audio to the back left and right channels. Because the sub is centered, it can be shared. Plus arcade games don't use much base anyway.
Or, I could keep it simple and only have two channels and MAME would output team 1's audio through the left channel and team 2's through the right... but then each team would only have mono sound instead of stereo. Not sure how many arcade games use stereo.
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About that two teams hearing each other's sound, I've always wanted to take a gander at this device
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-05-19-hss_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2003-05-19-hss_x.htm)
Not even sure if anything based on it is available yet to consumers, but it should LOOKS cool.
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Wow! That is really cool!
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I'm going to be watching this project, It looks very interesting!
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Well some bad news. The actual construction of this project will be delayed till this summer. This is due to my current lack of funds (Had to buy textbooks). The school also moved me to a new dorm room which is smaller. I will be moving into a house next semester so I should have room then.
But, this could also be good news. I have plenty of time to work out the details and save some cash. After months of working on this thing it should be just about perfect.
Bear with me guys.
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I believe people used to use a program called kaillera to play games like 4 player Cyberball in MAME against each other so each screen would be running from its own perspective on seperate computers.
http://www.kaillera.com/ (http://www.kaillera.com/)
I also think I may remember mame adding a way natively to span Cyberball across 2 screens with one computer and have each screen be from its own perspective.
It's definately worth looking into. Search the forums for Cyberball and you may find old posts about this here.
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I will look into it, but it looks like that is for the same game from two perspectives. I need to be able to player two different games.
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Updates! Check the first post.
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Great job on the changes! Those design improvements will boost the playability significantly.
Yes, the art can still be improved, but you've apparently got lots of time to work on it...
It's a shame that the build is being delayed, but this will give you plenty of time to perfect things. Looking forward to seeing the finished product some day... :cheers:
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!!...wow i feel late on this one. In terms of originality this one is at the top of my list. I hope to see this one completed.
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Thanks for the support! Always appreciated :)
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Hey man, sorry to hear about the delay. I know what a bear it is when you get the itch to build something and you can't do anything about it. :)
But like you said, it gives you plenty of time to work out the kinks before you start. For a project like this, you definitely don't want to rush! Take your time and make everything right.
Meanwhile, you have time to work on the artwork and programming! Your different credit mode ideas sound pretty cool. I particularly like the "credit buffer" idea.
By the way, I checked for 4:3 LCDs on a couple of my favorite sites, but I'm afraid I didn't find anything that will help you. Seems 20" is about as big as they get. I've seen sources for those for well under $100 each, though, if you're interested; by the time you get closer to building, they should be even cheaper.
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Ya it sucks pretty bad.
I am going to look at some designs to fit a larger widescreen monitor that I will turn vertically. I'll see if I can get the same width as a 4:3 22".
Edit:
eh... maybe not
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I am going to look at some designs to fit a larger widescreen monitor that I will turn vertically. I'll see if I can get the same width as a 4:3 22".
A pair of 22" 4:3s would be about 32" wide, if I'm doing my math right.
For a 16:10 that wide, you'd be looking at a 37" or so. That pretty much means an HDTV, which will run you in the neighborhood of at least $400 on a good day (I've actually been looking for one around that size at 1080p; not easy to find).
If you're really trying to do it vertically (a pair of them, I presume?), you're going for a pair of 32"s (each would be 16" tall when horizontal). Cheaper of course, but even harder to find at 1080p.
Good prices on 24" (widescreen) monitors are around $200. I have seen one monitor that was 32" and the price was ridiculous, but I never saw it anywhere other than Best Buy.
A 40-42" LCD is much easier to find in 1080p, and not much more expensive than a 37" ($500-700 last time I was looking). I think a single one of those, horizontally, would be good for your purposes. Problem there is that you'd need to split the screen rather than output to two monitors, but that shouldn't be too difficult.
Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know; I'm just throwing that out there.
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Ya I figured all that out which is why I decided to scratch that idea.
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I think I am done with my modded MAME. I can run and play two emulations in fullscreen at once as well as display the same game on multiple monitors. It was actually a lot easier than I originally thought.
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Very cool!
Curious what you're going to do for a Front End?
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I still need to write that. The question on that is if I decide to go with the touchscreen idea it needs to be written with a touchscreen interface rather than a joystick/spinner/trackball as is conventional.
As far as the actual execution of MAME; When launching in 4 player mode it will run:
mame.exe %ROM% -numscreens 2This will use the default controls configurations and display the same game on both screens.
2 player mode will run:
mame.exe %ROM1% -cfg_directory cfg1 -screen 0
mame.exe %ROM2% -cfg_directory cfg2 -screen 1This will start an emulation on each screen and use the appropriate controls for each emulation.
I am going to work with the MAME source some more to see if I can use the external front end program (which will be running on the touchscreen) to change games without closing and reopening MAME.
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I think I am done with my modded MAME. I can run and play two emulations in fullscreen at once as well as display the same game on multiple monitors. It was actually a lot easier than I originally thought.
That's awesome! How's the performance running two at once on one of the more demanding games?
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Haha I don't know actually. I should try that out sometime.
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Update!
Finished the visual part of the Front End program. See the first post.
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Funny...I've been trying to talk a buddy, who has a Tron cabinet, into making it dual sided. His original thought is to stick one player controls in it due to the wall-like sides. I said, "Hey, why not build back to back one player MAME machines and somehow (?) link them for the two player games"... that don't require a specific perspective. Joust, Hat Trick, Trog, Track and Field, etc.
The reason I thought of this was the shape of the Tron cab. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the elongated keystone shape is symmetrical.
It would give you two cabinets in the space of one. Of course, this might not fit well into a row of machines as it would be sideways against a wall, but if it's the only cab, it would be fine.
On this Corner Arcade, I agree with the earlier thoughts; moving it when needed will be tough and is there a real need for 4 players.
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Update! Check first post.
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First, Damn, dude. Impressive Sketchup skills there. I like where you're going with this design.
and
is there a real need for 4 players.
:) . Is there "really" any need for just about anything on this entire site? 8)
I like it. the size allows you to put more "dedicated arrangement" controls on that top level, without things getting cramped or totally stupid looking. The corner arrangement is pretty slick. your scale looks much better now. Heck, even the artwork is nice and understated, which is good considering the size of that beast.
:applaud:
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Funny...I've been trying to talk a buddy, who has a Tron cabinet, into making it dual sided. His original thought is to stick one player controls in it due to the wall-like sides. I said, "Hey, why not build back to back one player MAME machines and somehow (?) link them for the two player games"... that don't require a specific perspective. Joust, Hat Trick, Trog, Track and Field, etc.
The reason I thought of this was the shape of the Tron cab. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the elongated keystone shape is symmetrical.
It would give you two cabinets in the space of one. Of course, this might not fit well into a row of machines as it would be sideways against a wall, but if it's the only cab, it would be fine.
On this Corner Arcade, I agree with the earlier thoughts; moving it when needed will be tough and is there a real need for 4 players.
:whap Why would you want to screw up a Tron cab?
Encryptor
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That design is really starting to grow on me, I think the sketchup images really bring your ideas to life.
I would think if you could afford to have two CPU units or two old xboxes in there then networked type games would be fun to play.
But congrats on getting two copies of MAME to work on one computer.
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Problem with playing over a network is lag. Keeping everything on computer is easier in my opinion.
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Problem with playing over a network is lag.
Well, not much with a LAN. Especially with most MBs having gigabit built-in now.
I remember having 10baseT with a 50' x-over cable, and it was fine. Of course, the network games at that time were not very demanding.
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While this is true, I sometimes experience "hiccups" while playing my friend over Lan. It's nothing big and it may just be the router but it can be enough to mess you up. Plus, I still think it is much easier not having to deal with two computers.
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While this is true, I sometimes experience "hiccups" while playing my friend over Lan. It's nothing big and it may just be the router but it can be enough to mess you up. Plus, I still think it is much easier not having to deal with two computers.
That's true, if you need to be on a router, that does introduce another player to the game (so to speak). Routers generally have a small amount of overhead that can cause that "hiccup" now and then.
If I were to set up two machines side-by-side (in the same cab, or back-to-back, or whatever), and only two machines, I'd just run a short length of Cat6 (these days, it usually doesn't even need to be a x-over cable). I doubt there would be any noticeable lag, although there's always a chance. Any more than that, and you'd want to go with a switch rather than a router. A hub would work as well, but after 3 machines, I'd start worrying about collisions.
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Well my software works flawlessly now so there really is no need for two computers. It is just so much simpler to run only one computer. You also don't have to worry about lag at all... or paying for two set of computer components.
Update Check the first post.
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I clicked on this by mistake... WTF! This is crazy awesome! :dizzy:
Nice idea!
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Just read this post (more skimmed read) if this has been answered then sorry, but for the LCD monitors check out WWW.totevision.com (http://WWW.totevision.com) under CCTV or other manufacturers of CCTV monitors. Totevision has a 800X600 resolution 20" 4:3 I have used them for work they seem to have a good response time for video (never tried them for gaming). While they are a fortune new you can occasionally find them for cheap on ebay or amazon.
This is a very impressive idea hope it all comes together for you!
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Thanks man :), that had not been answered yet. I cant find the prices however.
BTW, I am working on another new set of artwork. This is one actually has a theme too.
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You normally have got to get them from distributors like Tri-Ed, Platt electric, etc. But you can find them on the web time to time for half to a third there normal price. Ebay is probably the best bet.
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The first site I looked at was selling them for $1000 so I just stopped looking haha.
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Update
Changed to Planet Arcade. See first post.
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I decided that if I simply cut the cabinet in half vertically at the control panel, I could make the top half easily removable. Only problem is how I can make a system that securely snaps the top half in place? Any ideas?
Here are some pics:
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I decided that if I simply cut the cabinet in half vertically at the control panel, I could make the top half easily removable. Only problem is how I can make a system that securely snaps the top half in place? Any ideas?
Here are some pics:
Pins and latches?
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I decided that if I simply cut the cabinet in half vertically at the control panel, I could make the top half easily removable. Only problem is how I can make a system that securely snaps the top half in place? Any ideas?
Here are some pics:
Pins and latches?
That's exactly what I was going to suggest. I recently built a "bookcase" for my DVDs; I couldn't fit bigger than a 2x4 sheet of plywood in the car, so the sides had to be two pieces each. I built them each about 3' tall (can't recall exact dimensions, but it's taller than 5'), and used two pins on each side. I decided on latches to hold it tight. Since they had to be on the sides and visible, I used some nice-looking brass ones. On your cab, you could just put them in back and use whatever heavy-duty ones you can find.
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Wow, totally missed this and I gotta say I really like the design as well. It's something I haven't seen before and could be designed to take apart given time and planning...which considering you have postponed to summer you should have a lot of! :)
Where I see this design doing well is having a buddy over and both of you playing at the same time...not back to back...not one guy on one side but both sorta side by side yet each on his own machine.
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Just talking to loadman about the eduke version of DukeNukem3d for windows.
You REALLY need to get that setup somehow to allow 2 player duke on those 2 monitors!
That'd be very cool indeed!
Great project so far!
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Further thought and the solution seems simple:
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You REALLY need to get that setup somehow to allow 2 player duke on those 2 monitors!
That'd be very cool indeed!
Multiplayer Duke3D is always cool. It was back in the day, and it still is now. ;D
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You REALLY need to get that setup somehow to allow 2 player duke on those 2 monitors!
That'd be very cool indeed!
Multiplayer Duke3D is always cool. It was back in the day, and it still is now. ;D
Have to agree
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I am surprised no one has commented on the new art. I think it is a great improvement and I need your suggestions!
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I like the artwork.. very cool bro. :cheers:
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+1
I like it.
It's got a very scifi vibe going. and it seems to fit with the shape of the cab
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Nice, I like the top-mounted coin slot idea :applaud: Good luck, btw cool artwork design.
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I am surprised no one has commented on the new art. I think it is a great improvement and I need your suggestions!
i am suprised noone has said "build it"
well its just a suggestion.
::)
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Thanks for the input!
i am suprised noone has said "build it"
well its just a suggestion.
::)
If you read the end of the first post you will see that I am not going to be able to start building it till the summer.
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Hehe...I think a lot of people here will be interested to see it built. I guess some are less patient than others. ;)
It's nice that you have the definite window in which to finalize your design. I made mine very basic, and I keep making modifications as I go. Which is kind of how I like doing things, but it probably won't turn out as nice as it might have.
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If you read the end of the first post you will see that I am not going to be able to start building it till the summer.
Ha, I'm going to build one to your plans really quickly so I can get all the accolades before you!
Nah, just kidding, I'm too damn lazy to do that :dunno
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Also bear in mind how easy it will be to move this thing. Is it door height or ceiling height - if its close to ceiling height you won't be able to tilt it much!
I decided that if I simply cut the cabinet in half vertically at the control panel, I could make the top half easily removable.
Is that going to make it small enough to move from your workshop into the house?
BTW I like your artwork design.
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I have been working on some designs that will allow me to take apart the excess parts (such as the control panel, sides, etc.) which will make moving it very easy. I will post it up in a second.
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Update!
Check the first post.
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Started a mini bartop version to give me something to do. You can see the thread here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=100547).
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Found this through the page on your bartop project, very cool design! I noticed in your other thread that you'd just moved, does that mean this project will soon be underway?
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So, what's going on with this? Any progress yet?
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I bow to your superior Sketchup skills. This is masterful, and I want to see more! (Like people kept telling ME, let's see some wood shavings!)
;D
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Well life didn't go as plan, rarely does, so I am still stuck in my small apartment with no place to put such thing :(. I have my bartop for now
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i realize it has been some time since the last post, however i was curious if you have the measurements for your cabinet available. i would like to build this cabinet but utilize one large screen.