Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Reviews => Topic started by: GaryMcT on August 16, 2009, 04:26:50 am
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http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=309 (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=309)
If you don't like the modern clicky micro switches, but don't want the hassle of true leaf switches (pain to install, pain to find decent ones, soldering required, etc.), Groovy Game Gear's Micro-Leaf switches are really great. I actually prefer them over real leaf switches since they take less pressure to activate. They slip right into a Happ-style pushbutton in the place of a micro-switch. I can't say enough about how great these are. If you want to know what they are like, they are pretty close to the feel of removing the micro-switch from your button and using it without any switch.
I hope that they decide to make a version that can replace micro-switches in joysticks. i picked up some of the Groovy Game Gear "Versa-Micro™ User-Adjustable Arcade Switches" to try with an Ultimarc J-stick (Sanwa JLW), but I haven't tried it out yet:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=328 (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=328)
I'll try to remember to post the results after I try these.
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I agree - all my player buttons are the micro-leaf style and I have no second thoughts.
GroovyGameGear sells a Happ Super Arcade Joystick that says it uses "leaf style" microswitches and I have wondered if those are the same leaf style switches. Anyone know?
Craig
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Last night I compared the Happ buttons with micro-leaf to my Defender control panel with NOS leaf switch butons. I'm a bit floored that I actually like the happ/micro-leaf combo more.
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GroovyGameGear sells a Happ Super Arcade Joystick that says it uses "leaf style" microswitches and I have wondered if those are the same leaf style switches. Anyone know?
Those are regular microswitches, they just have the lever arm thingy (no clue what you call 'em):
(http://www.tornadoterrys.com/IM000624.JPG)
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Those are regular microswitches, they just have the lever arm thingy (no clue what you call 'em):
'Actuator arm', I've ordered a bunch of the Micro-Leaf and the Versa-Micro User-Adjustable units as well. It's a pity the Versa switches don't come with an optional model fitted with actuator arms. Even so I'm going to see if I can mod my Sanwa stick to use them. What an awsome 4 way / 8 way stick it would be then. Will post results here.
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I've not done a ton of testing yet, but I will say going to to mico-leaf switches from Cherry's in my two run buttons has increased my Track and Field times by about 10%.... I've not tried the adjustable microswitches yet.
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I like the micro-leafs so much that I'm going to build a new Stargate control panel using them instead of using my orginal Defender control panel.
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OK I've received both my micro-leaf switches and my adjustable switches. I must say I'm very impressed with the micro-leaf's they transform my Happ buttons into silent and much more sensitive units. I have also converted and tested my Sanwa 4way/8way joystick from the regular click switches over to the adjustable switches from GGG. These switches do not come with the actuator arms needed in a Sanwa stick, what follows in pictures is my conversion method. I removed the actuator arms from the standard microswitches in the Sanwa Joystick and transplanted them into the adjustable switches. Once the actuator arm has been fitted they cannot be adjusted any further so it's important to adjust them for 'silent running' before fitting the arms. None of the switches have been damaged at all in the process. The process is quite easy. I immediately tested the action and response of the stick in my cab, VERY NICE. It behaves and feels very much like a leaf switch based stick and is completely quiet other than the stick bumper hitting the restrictor plate. Playing PAC MAN in 4 way mode was really nice. Having the stick like this is exactly what I'd hoped for.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01513.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01514.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01515.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01516.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01517.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01518.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01519.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01520.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01523.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01525.jpg)
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss251/Ond_photos/DSC01526.jpg)
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great tutorial and pics Ond! :cheers:
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How'd you take those images, mm?
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great tutorial and pics Ond! :cheers:
Thanks Bender, I could have just said "open up the switches with a blade" but I like to show technique with pics it's clearer. Those little switches have very small parts in them, split them open completely and they sproing out and get lost in the carpet etc.
How'd you take those images, mm?
Just used a tripod and a 10 second auto-timer on my camera, allows hands free picture taking :)
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Hilarious!!! I was just looking at the same switches wondering if those leaves could be transplanted!!! Thanks for the info! I'll kill my other thread on this that I just started. :) :) :)
This makes me very happy. I'll be doing this to my J-stick that got a tiny balltop and a 2-way restrictor from lizardlick today for a Stargate/Defender-ish control panel!
Thanks again for the info!
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I'll be trying this tomorrow! Thanks again Ond.
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Hmmm, could maybe drill a tiny hole in the actuator so that they are still adjustable?
Did you move them over to completely silent beforehand? Is there a trade-off in switching with them being completely silent?
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It's cool this works eh? You will be very pleased with the result (as I was). The switches were adjusted before fitting the actuator arms. I wouldn't drill the arms it will weaken them (even a small hole). Once they are adjusted to silent, no more adjustments are necessary. I adjusted mine to the point where they just became silent. I noticed no lack of performance in silent mode. GGG warns against turning the adjustment screw too far. Happy modding!
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Glorious!!! I modded two of my Versa-Micros as you suggested to have the actuator arm on them. Works great!
The only thing I would add to your tutorial on how to do it is to hook up a multimeter and test that the switch still functions at the setting that you choose with the allen wrench. I made the mistake of going too far, putting the whole dang thing back together, only to have to have to take it all apart and try again. I managed to destroy one of the switches in the process, but that's okay! I have four of them and I only need two for this purpose.
2 Versa-Micros + J-Stick/JLW + Seimitsu LB-30 ball-top = most excellent modern take on a Defender/Stargate two-way stick! The throw feels about right. Will have to be quite recessed to get the height off of the panel correct.
I'll just need to dremel some plastic away on the stick and some of the mounting plate, get it mounted on a test control panel, and get a button in the right spot relative to it and I'll be set.
Thanks for the tutorial!!! If anyone is looking at doing this, it takes less than 5 minutes to mod a Versa-Micro switch like this.
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I've had no issues with the Micro-Leafs, in fact I've switched over to all Micro-leafs now, love how quiet they are
I've had 2 Versa-Micros that were working fine, stop working after playing on my machine for a while
I had to go back in remove them and re-adjust the screw, then they worked again.. but I did't want to be doing this all the time
I think a tiny drop of hot glue on the set screw would fix it.
But I'm not using them now so I don't know for sure
be curious if this has happened to anyone else
seem like they might get even more of a beating on a joystick
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Micro-Leafs are the best!
I'm bummed to hear that the Versa-Micros might be a problem like that. If I have that problem I'll try some glue to see what happens. The only place I'm planning on using them so far is in a Stargate panel so that the button fits. Now I'm having a hard time remember why the U360 didn't work. . hmmmmmmm. . may have just been that I would need to get a custom 2-way restrictor for it. Maybe I'll proceed with that at some point.
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I've had 2 Versa-Micros that were working fine, stop working after playing on my machine for a while
I had to go back in remove them and re-adjust the screw, then they worked again.. but I did't want to be doing this all the time
I think a tiny drop of hot glue on the set screw would fix it.
But I'm not using them now so I don't know for sure
be curious if this has happened to anyone else
seem like they might get even more of a beating on a joystick
I just want to note that no-one should ever use any kind of glue on these. The result would likely be an unusable switch, or at minimum, the inability to ever adjust it again if it were for some reason required.
Like all mechanical devices, a new switch will "wear in" after some use. The spring will soften slightly, etc. So the best cure with this situation is not trying to fix the adjustment screw in place (it isn't turning by itself) but to adjust the switch so it's not so close to dead silent. This is one of the reasons why we suggest not being overzealous in the adjustment of the switch and leaving it so the click happens quietly. By time it is inside a panel, it will still be inaudible.
RandyT
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This is one of the reasons why we suggest not being overzealous in the adjustment of the switch and leaving it so the click happens quietly. By time it is inside a panel, it will still be inaudible.
RandyT
+1 When adjusting these I found the point at which the click only just goes away and then wound the screw back a fraction into the 'click' zone. No need to 'over adjust' these at all.
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I've had 2 Versa-Micros that were working fine, stop working after playing on my machine for a while
I had to go back in remove them and re-adjust the screw, then they worked again.. but I did't want to be doing this all the time
I think a tiny drop of hot glue on the set screw would fix it.
But I'm not using them now so I don't know for sure
be curious if this has happened to anyone else
seem like they might get even more of a beating on a joystick
I just want to note that no-one should ever use any kind of glue on these. The result would likely be an unusable switch, or at minimum, the inability to ever adjust it again if it were for some reason required.
Like all mechanical devices, a new switch will "wear in" after some use. The spring will soften slightly, etc. So the best cure with this situation is not trying to fix the adjustment screw in place (it isn't turning by itself) but to adjust the switch so it's not so close to dead silent. This is one of the reasons why we suggest not being overzealous in the adjustment of the switch and leaving it so the click happens quietly. By time it is inside a panel, it will still be inaudible.
RandyT
Good to know, I didn't even think of there being a "wear in" for a micro switch
I have found the there are certain types of hot glue that are pretty easily removable, and the glue removes completely (Ace brand all purpose)
in fact I have 2 hot glue guns, one for that, and one for glue that holds much better but is impossible to get off (Arrow brand)
I wouldn't hesitate to use the Ace glue on something like that, although it sounds like I shouldn't need to.
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Randy-
Any price break on the micro leaf switches?
I'm looking to replace all my clicky switches on my Frankenpanel.
I'm considering an order of 64 switches, or perhaps 76 if I also swap my credit, start, & admin buttons.
Thanks,
-Jason
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$2.50 per switch... Am I missing sth? These look awesome, but to replace the the switches on my panel would cost about as much or more than I bought all the original buttons,cherry switches, and sticks. Why do these cost so much?
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$2.50 per switch... Am I missing sth? These look awesome, but to replace the the switches on my panel would cost about as much or more than I bought all the original buttons,cherry switches, and sticks. Why do these cost so much?
Because they are the only adjustable switches on the market, so you're paying for the manufacturing of these. If they become popular enough, Randy can afford to make more per batch and lower his price.
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Anybody else find the micro leafs almost too sensitive? Seems like just resting my fingers on the buttons is enough to engage them.
I've kind of got a love hate thing going with them right now. Yes, they are (almost) silent, and games that require lots of quick tapping play better, but I don't want to be accidentally engaging them either.
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Have you tried stretching your springs slightly?
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The holders position the actuators so that they have a "hair trigger". This puts the actuation at a known point in the stroke, so rapid fire is a lot easier than if it's buried half way through. But you can tweak this by simply bending the metal leaf slightly.
Ginsu Victim's advice is also good, but don't stretch the springs too far until you know you really want to. You can always stretch them a little more, but going back is almost impossible.
RandyT
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Ginsu Victim's advice is also good, but don't stretch the springs too far until you know you really want to. You can always stretch them a little more, but going back is almost impossible.
Hence my use of the word "slightly".
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hmm. if it's still bugging me after a suitable break in period, I may try some of this advice.