Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Visitor Q on January 21, 2009, 10:28:31 am
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I have a U-Trak installed in my new CP and it can be a little noisy when rolled in one direction, like it needs a little grease or something. =] Any ideas on the proper way to correct this?
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Yeah, unscrew the casing and WD40 the barswhere they meet the plastic housing.
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i was always under the impression that wd40 is bad for bearings...
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Anyone else?
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i was always under the impression that wd40 is bad for bearings...
I know WD-40 is bad for skateboard bearings because it leaves behind this kinda' residue that actually attracts dust and dirt. It really reduces their longevity. I always use a high quality bearing lubricant (like Bones Speed Cream or Tri-Flow.)
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i was always under the impression that wd40 is bad for bearings...
I know WD-40 is bad for skateboard bearings because it leaves behind this kinda' residue that actually attracts dust and dirt. It really reduces their longevity. I always use a high quality bearing lubricant (like Bones Speed Cream or Tri-Flow.)
Funny you say that, I just had a flash back. :)
So should I try a little Tri-Flow?
Is mine the only one of there with a little noise?
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My first thought was actually skateboard bearing lube, but thought, "Naaaaaaahhh." :)
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i was always under the impression that wd40 is bad for bearings...
I know WD-40 is bad for skateboard bearings because it leaves behind this kinda' residue that actually attracts dust and dirt. It really reduces their longevity. I always use a high quality bearing lubricant (like Bones Speed Cream or Tri-Flow.)
Funny you say that, I just had a flash back. :)
So should I try a little Tri-Flow?
Is mine the only one of there with a little noise?
I'm pretty sure any plastic safe (teflon/silicone) lube/grease would be alright. A little Tri-Flow would probably be excellent but I would like to hear an expert opinion on this.
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Standing by for an expert. ;)
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WD40 should be fine. Its just a light oil with other stuff added, which evaporates leaving the oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40)
But there might be some reason for the noise. One possibility is a small lump of dirt stuck to the roller at the point it contacts the ball. There is no problem with running smooth emery paper against the roller and spinning it, to eliminate anything stuck. The roller itself is unlikely to be damaged as its hard stainless-steel.
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* 50%: Stoddard solvent (i.e., mineral spirits -- primarily hexane, somewhat similar to kerosene)
* 25%: Liquified petroleum gas (presumably as a propellant; carbon dioxide is now used instead to reduce WD-40's considerable flammability)
* 15+%: Mineral oil (light lubricating oil)
* 10-%: Inert ingredients
Caution
* WD-40 is not contact cleaner. It leaves a sticky residue that can attract dust.
* WD-40 should never be used in locks for the same reason. Locks should be cleaned with isopropyl alcohol, allowed to dry thoroughly and lubricated with dry graphite powder.
* A sample of WD-40 that was sprayed onto a piece of steel plate and left outside at -25 for about 20 minutes froze.
This is why you can't use it on skateboard bearings. The solvent removes the real grease used in the bearings and just leaves the "light lubricating oil" which actually attracts dirt (from what I've heard.)
I've been using triflow. Is that any good?
Tri-flow is an excellent lube and offers great chain protection but it does pick up a little more dust than others... on the other hand the teflon and ptfe additives makes removing that crud much easier as it just can't stick.
I get 3500-4500 km per chain and apply lube very sparingly... I use one drop per link and then I listen to Boheniam Rhapsody while I wipe the excess down with a rag.
:)
WD40 is better than nothing but it isn't a good chain lubricant... if you think this question gets asked here a lot come and work in our shop.
I should actually promote the use of Wd40 as then we'd sell even more new chains...especially in the winter months as it offers virtually no protection when things get ugly.
It seems that people have a lot of differing opinions on the use of WD-40...however bike chains and skateboard bearings are a lot different than a trackball...
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WD40 should be fine. Its just a light oil with other stuff added, which evaporates leaving the oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40)
But there might be some reason for the noise. One possibility is a small lump of dirt stuck to the roller at the point it contacts the ball. There is no problem with running smooth emery paper against the roller and spinning it, to eliminate anything stuck. The roller itself is unlikely to be damaged as its hard stainless-steel.
How do I access all this to lube it?
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There are 4 screws recessed in to the base. Just remove these and the top lifts off, and then the ball can be lifted out.
Another thing you can try is swap over the rollers and/or bearings and if one bearing is noisy we can send a replacement.
Andy
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From the top you say? Hmmm... Well that could be a problem. I don't think I have access to the top of my CP in that way.
I am not sure how I would be able to get to the top of the U-Trak when it is flush mounted. Guess I really need to take a closer look at it.
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remove it from the CP and you can open it
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sigh... I did not install it in the CP so I am not 100% sure how to remove it.
Really sucks that I have to do all this work to something I had someone else build for me. :(
I guess thats the breaks sometime.
I will have to look at the bottom of the CP but with that lip there, I wonder how it is to take it out?
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There should be holes on the bottom of the trackball unit. Use a phillips head screwdriver in those holes to remove the screws.
You need to learn what you have in your CP and how to work on it. Someone else built it, but you're responsible for it.
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You need to learn what you have in your CP and how to work on it. Someone else built it, but you're responsible for it.
QFT
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There should be holes on the bottom of the trackball unit. Use a phillips head screwdriver in those holes to remove the screws.
You need to learn what you have in your CP and how to work on it. Someone else built it, but you're responsible for it.
Trust me I am not stranger to the inside of it, I don't even bother screwing the bottom on anymore at this point and time.
Since I've had it I have or have been dealing with the following.
Loose Connections
Possible Bad RGB Board Problem
U360 Issues
...and now this U-Trak issue.
I am not pointing the figure and I am surely not saying no one is not helping me take care of these issues because so far everyone involved has been great but...
Look... I am not trying to be a little ---smurfette--- here or anything but it's a bit much for something that is suppose to be 100% brand new. Yeah I know, ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- happens...
Anyway… So I can unscrew this from the bottom to remove it from the control panel or to get to the parts I need to lubricate? You’ll have to excuses me as I am at work right now and this is not so clear because I don’t have it in front of me. Figured I would gather all the info. I need now and then deal with it when I get home tonight. So… The more I know going into it the better.
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What I said wasn't an attack or anything. It was just a response to:
Really sucks that I have to do all this work to something I had someone else build for me.
I understand your frustration. You spent money on what you hoped to be a perfect setup, and now all these problems are popping up. Good thing you bought yours with products from a reputable vendor like Ultimarc. Andy takes great care of his customer base.
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Yeah... So far Andy and Scott from Mameroom have been great.
So any idea on my question, those screws on the bottom. Are they to remove the U-Trak or to get to where I need to make adjustments? Reading above it seems like Andy said I need to access it from the top to lubricated it.
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Trust me I am not stranger to the inside of it, I don't even bother screwing the bottom on anymore at this point and time.
There's a mom joke in here somewhere...
-csa
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So any idea on my question, those screws on the bottom. Are they to remove the U-Trak or to get to where I need to make adjustments?
They will unmount the trackball from the panel, allow you to access the top of the unit once it's out.
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I'll have to check it out when I get home, if its too much trouble I will just live with the noise and turn the speakers up. ;)
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Nah, should be an easy fix.
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The pain in the ass part is removing it to do so but I guess that is all yet to be seen.
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It's four screws. Its not going to be a pain in the ass to remove four screws.
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The pain in the ass part is removing it to do so but I guess that is all yet to be seen.
Like Hoopz said, it's four screws. It's not rocket science. You'll go to remove it and say, "Oh, I made way too much of this."
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Maybe so but not being a pain in the ass would not being doing it at all. :P
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thanks to this thread, just did my u-trak, the rollers were full of gunk and the wd40 sorted straight away.
hardest part is getting the CP off.
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<--- Saving U-Traks One Lub at a Time. :P
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So yeah, I lubed up the bearings and where the bearings slide on the shaft... It still makes noise when rolling to the right side. I noticed when I had it apart that there was wear on the center of the shafts from where the track ball hits it, all 3 rods. I guess there is really no way to fix this because if I wax the shafts the track ball may slip.
Ideas are welcome.
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If you do decide to "wax the shaft," make sure no one catches you. ;D
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So yeah, I lubed up the bearings and where the bearings slide on the shaft... It still makes noise when rolling to the right side. I noticed when I had it apart that there was wear on the center of the shafts from where the track ball hits it, all 3 rods. I guess there is really no way to fix this because if I wax the shafts the track ball may slip.
Ideas are welcome.
Wear? on a relatively new trackball in stainless steel?
I doubt it, I think you have some gunk built up there you need to get it off and the Track ball we be like new!
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Next time I pull it apart I will snap some pix if it don't wipe off. I mean I can't even see how it could be that dirty so you have a valet point. I'll pull it one more time this week, maybe tonight.
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Well I couldn't wait so I pulled it here before work, turns out I was right. :(
I cleaned them off when they where out but the mark remains so ideas are welcome.
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Its hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like your right, those are divots and not dirt, you should send them back to Andy
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Its hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like your right, those are divots and not dirt, you should send them back to Andy
I am 100% sure it is not dirt, trust me.
Is this a problem? If I get new ones, won't they do the same?
Maybe I need to wait and hear from Andy on this one. All this stuff is suppose to be brand new, I don't think I have played more than two games with that track ball. :-\
Any idea what may have caused this?
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that is very strange
something weird is going on, did you get this from a third party?
I got a u-track a couple of months ago and it works fantastic, I did have to take it apart to get a little dirt off the rollers cause I was test fitting it in the workshop and a lot of crud got in there. I've never seen anything like you have there, Its almost like someone grinded those spots down or ran a trackball made of sandpaper through there
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that is very strange
something weird is going on, did you get this from a third party?
I got a u-track a couple of months ago and it works fantastic, I did have to take it apart to get a little dirt off the rollers cause I was test fitting it in the workshop and a lot of crud got in there. I've never seen anything like you have there, Its almost like someone grinded those spots down or ran a trackball made of sandpaper through there
It came from Mameroom, they built the CP. :dunno
I don't understand why I am having so many problems. :'(
I mean Andy and Scott from Mameroom have been great so far but I don't understand why I am having so many problems. I've spent more time adjusting, fixing and correcting than playing at this point. I know, welcome to the BYOAC. :D
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Well I couldn't wait so I pulled it here before work, turns out I was right. :(
I cleaned them off when they where out but the mark remains so ideas are welcome.
That is pretty minor wear, and wear is expected to occur over use. You should see how rollers look after a couple years in an arcade (& before they were stainless). Check out these two links for pics of worn rollers: Bob Roberts (http://www.arcaderestoration.com/index.asp?OPT=3&DATA=1276&CBT=24), TB repair (http://www.stickycarpet.com/pinx/atari.html).
FWIW, the roller wears the fastest brand new, when the ball is resting on only one point. Once the rollers have a little wear, though, the ball is resting on a curved line, spreading the force over more area, and the speed of the wear drops very quickly.
The thing that's getting me is the idle roller (the diagonal one without a encoder wheel) looks to have more wear than the other two. If it is getting more wear, the ball might be loose and moving so it rubs on more than once spot on the roller. (This might be supported by the sound only when to the right and not to the left.) Or possibly you got a mismatched set of rollers, with the idle roller from a more used set. Is that just the pictures, or do it actually have more wear?
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I think that is just the pictures. When I looked at them this morning and snapped the photos they all appeared to be worn evenly. More or less all surface wear, none are cut into the roller from what I recall, just surface wear. To be the noise only occurs when rolling the ball to the right side but maybe it was happening from other directions as well. Guess I will need to take a video to show you guys.
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Are you sure this is actually wear?
If you place a ruler along the shaft, is there any depression? I would suspect there isnt, but can you confirm this.
Assuming there isnt, the mark is just that, a mark. It is caused by the ball rubbing even for a short time on the shiny machined surface of the stainless steel roller. This dulling of the surface happens after a few minutes of use.
I have noticed on some rollers the first few minutes of use seems to bring out the "grain" in the surface of the machined roller so the contact point appears slightly rough. This soon wears completely smooth (although only a microscopic action, not a groove).
The best advice would be to simply use it. Of course I could be wrong and if the rollers are genuinely worn we will replace them, but I cant see Scott even having a U-Trak which has been used for hundreds of hours let alone shipping a used one out.
Andy
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Are you sure this is actually wear?
If you place a ruler along the shaft, is there any depression? I would suspect there isnt, but can you confirm this.
Assuming there isnt, the mark is just that, a mark. It is caused by the ball rubbing even for a short time on the shiny machined surface of the stainless steel roller. This dulling of the surface happens after a few minutes of use.
I have noticed on some rollers the first few minutes of use seems to bring out the "grain" in the surface of the machined roller so the contact point appears slightly rough. This soon wears completely smooth (although only a microscopic action, not a groove).
The best advice would be to simply use it. Of course I could be wrong and if the rollers are genuinely worn we will replace them, but I cant see Scott even having a U-Trak which has been used for hundreds of hours let alone shipping a used one out.
Andy
It is wear only in the sense that the shininess is worn off; it is not cut or indented, not at this point.
I mean other than the noise it was making when rolling it to the one side, I would have never even took it a part. The only reason I even opened it was to try and eliminate that noise.
At think at this point I should just keep and eye on it. When it is time to clean it in another 6 months or so will see where I stand. If there is considerably more wear then we will know something is wrong and can address it at that time. I just wanted to make you aware of what I am seeing because other than the slight noise that I am getting when the track ball is rolled to the one side, the thing is works GREAT!
I want to thank you publicly for addressing all my issues on your products and not shying away from them. It is very refreshing to speak with someone who truly stands behind there products.
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Back from the dead I just want to update some people on this, my track ball has since broke...
…. itself in and it is quite as can be now! I guess it just needed a little time to settle itself in there, pre cabinet jitters or something. LOL!
Anyone great product from Ultimarc! ;)
Top notch support too! :cheers: