Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Havok on September 05, 2008, 02:56:45 am
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Anyone dealt with him recently? I guess we won't ever see that yoke...
:'(
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You know something, I got absolutely slated from people here when I warned people about their ongoing "coating process", and locked out of a topic about them.
No yoke? No problem... I guess.
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B...b...b....but he gave a way a bunch of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- for FREE! Doesn't that make him a good guy? :dunno
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Yes, actually, it does. Until someone can reliably say they were ripped off, Ram Controls is alright in my book. I'm disappointed he hasn't delivered a yoke, but as far as I know he hasn't ripped anyone off. He's delivered other products and given away a bunch of stuff. Like many folks he's doing this as a hobby, so I'm grateful for what we get. If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case.
--- saint
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I'm sorry Saint, but someone who does things for a hobby doesn't mean they can deliver what they promised - or that they are a good guy - quite the opposite. A hobbyist is much more unreliable to deliver than someone who does something to feed his kids, in my book.
You seem to have a unfathomable respect for this guy, and I can't see why.
How long to people have to wait for delivery, or in your case "If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case." -- where is the deadline? 1, 2, 3 or 5 years?
People have constructed skyscrapers in the time this guy has had to deliver on his "promises".
I'm sure you will again lock me out of this subject, or deny access to posting on it, but at least I can say "I TOLD YOU SO!"
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How long to people have to wait for delivery, or in your case "If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case." -- where is the deadline? 1, 2, 3 or 5 years?
Someone would first have to request a refund before they could be waiting for a refund. As such, there is no deadline until someone requests a refund, at which point the clock starts ticking; and I'd say he'd have a couple of weeks to do the refund before being labeled a bad trader.
So, who has requested a refund from him and not received it?
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How long to people have to wait for delivery, or in your case "If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case." -- where is the deadline? 1, 2, 3 or 5 years?
So, who has requested a refund from him and not received it?
Who has received their yoke? You guys crack me up!
I'm not responding to this thread any more.
BTW, Saint, can you send me a copy of your fantastic book? I promise to deliver payment --- honest!
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ratzz, from what I read in the past, he OFFERED a refund to anyone who didn't want to wait, and at least some people decided they'd rather wait than get a refund. So no, there is no deadline until someone requests the refund or he says that the project is dead.
And I'm sure Saint didn't offer to send you his book and let you pay at some later time, so that is totally unlike this situation. These people paid with the understanding that it was a pre-order, so it was completely willing on their part.
You don't have to like David's methods, his products, his business, or whatever, but that doesn't mean he's a bad guy. A lot of us (myself included) have gotten good stuff for free or for purchase from him, so at this point he seems to only have positive transactions. Of course, if he has disappeared and won't refund people their pre-order money, that's a different story.
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How long to people have to wait for delivery, or in your case "If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case." -- where is the deadline? 1, 2, 3 or 5 years?
So, who has requested a refund from him and not received it?
Who has received their yoke? You guys crack me up!
What does that have to do with anything? If people are dissatisfied with the wait, they can request a refund; and so far, everyone who has requested a refund has gotten one. So what's the problem exactly?
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I'm sorry Saint, but someone who does things for a hobby doesn't mean they can deliver what they promised - or that they are a good guy - quite the opposite. A hobbyist is much more unreliable to deliver than someone who does something to feed his kids, in my book.
You seem to have a unfathomable respect for this guy, and I can't see why.
I'm not even sure what that first sentence was in response to -- I had to check to make sure that tommy wasn't posting because it had very little to do with what saint posted.
Like saint, I have respect for David and what he has done and been trying to do.
You seem to base your entire opinion of him on not delivering one product and are happy to ignore everything that he has done, which is more than most in this hobby, present company included.
I'm sure you will again lock me out of this subject, or deny access to posting on it, but at least I can say "I TOLD YOU SO!"
Wow -- I had to check a second time to make sure that it wasn't tommy posting.
:dizzy:
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How long to people have to wait for delivery, or in your case "If he ends up not refunding people who request it then it's a whole different story, but I've not heard that that is the case." -- where is the deadline? 1, 2, 3 or 5 years?
That depends entirely on the people actually involved in the transaction. This guy hasn't hurt a single person, and has helped many. Piling on and trashing him and other folks, as has happened sadly in the past, hurts our hobby. He's not in the same situation as vendors who have ripped people off. It boggles my mind completely that people don't see the difference.
--- saint
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look, we're all disapointed that the star wars yoke seems to be on indefinate hold, but he has offered and refunded to everyone who asked for it
what else could he do?
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Children -- There has been nothing new said on this subject for about 4 months. Can we please let it rest?
Thanks.
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look, we're all disapointed that the star wars yoke seems to be on indefinate hold, but he has offered and refunded to everyone who asked for it
what else could he do?
Stop bullshitting the community perhaps? By his own account everything is done aside from powder coating certain parts. I call BS. I've never heard of powder coating taking over a year?! But since I don't have $$$ involved in this my opinion doesn't mean squat...
...this yoke is the Duke Nukem Forever of the MAME community.
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I don't know the guy so I can't comment on any of the past history.
However as FrizzleFried said according to his own site and blog everything is done except the handle powder coating (how on earth could that take so long though?). I emailed him and asked if I could buy one sans the grips and then I'd just put on a set of either Happ's grips with the thumb buttons or even the handles off a Road Blaster... I would be perfectly happy with that if the rest is as high quality as it sounds. I never got a response back.
Usually I take a lack of response as a bad sign. I understand he's probably busy, but it gives off a bad vibe to potential customers when they feel like they've been blown off. Even a reponse saying no would be better than no response at all.
Maybe he will get these done someday. Sad thing is by that time I'll probably have a yoke from someplace else by then.
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look, we're all disappointed that the star wars yoke seems to be on indefinite hold, but he has offered and refunded to everyone who asked for it
what else could he do?
Stop bullshitting the community perhaps? By his own account everything is done aside from powder coating certain parts. I call BS. I've never heard of powder coating taking over a year?! But since I don't have $$$ involved in this my opinion doesn't mean squat...
...this yoke is the Duke Nukem Forever of the MAME community.
hey we all have thing that come up in life to prevent us from doing what we'd like
This is a hobby for him and he's NOT ripping anyone off in fact for those of us who already have a yoke his tune up it was invaluable, as well as Atari cone buttons and a fantastic major havoc roller among other things
this guy is just try to help out the community
of course more responce would be better but we simply don't know what his situation is, and as long as he's not holding anybody's money I just don't understand the Haters
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Bender, I totally agree. But I also agree with fatfingers at this point. No one is convincing anyone here. Everyone has their opinions established. They are apparently not swayed by what we think are very compelling arguments, and we're not being swayed by what they probably think are compelling arguments either.
Let's stop arguing about whether Dave is a good guy or a bad guy, and wait until there is real news on the subject (e.g. whether or not people are able to get refunds, or if RAM comes back to life).
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A hobbyist is much more unreliable to deliver than someone who does something to feed his kids, in my book.
This is it exactly. Everyone who put money up for this project knew it was going to a hobbyist. Things happen, if they don't like it, they should ask for their money back. David is the only one who dared to take on such a product and all of the people who gave money know this. It is probably the same reason they haven't asked for their money back. Look at the web site, if he was out to take everyones money he wouldn't be spending it on all of those manufactured parts.
It kills me that people who have probably never tackled a project like this want to mention how long something like powder coating should take. I am the production manager for an upstart consumer electronics company, not by trade mind you. I am in it because someone noticed that I have an eye for detail. We have gone through several metal suppliers and powder coating shops looking for the right combination of quality, cost, and consistency. This ain't easy to find on the local level, trust me.
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Well, the clock's tickin. On the posting of this thread, and given I did get a used yoke on ebay, I went and emailed David for a refund. Interestingly, he responded back within a few hours, and asked for address confirmation. I gave it and the next morning he said he'd have it coming out my way Monday. Maybe he's not going paypal due to fees, so should be some time later next week.
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Hmmm - I sent an email a week ago, and no response. Can you PM me the address you used?
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I wonder how many people in this thread have put their money down for a yoke or anything else - because at the end of the day, those that do are really the only ones that should be commenting about RAM and their delay..
Hoops
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I would still buy yoke kits from him were he to offer them. I have a couple of yokes I'd like to rebuild and was waiting on a little more evidence of reliability before sending him cash. Then he sent me several (not cheap) NLA ICs for free and wouldn't accept money for beer or shipping. That was good enough evidence for me. I don't see a problem with the guy so long as he offers refunds to those who want them and there has been no indication that he hasn't given refunds.
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I wonder how many people in this thread have put their money down for a yoke or anything else - because at the end of the day, those that do are really the only ones that should be commenting about RAM and their delay..
Hoops
While I am not comparing the two companies, I will say that your argument didn't hold up in the slickstik situation. Everyone chimed in on it regardless of if they bought from them or not. I don't really have an opinion on the yoke but I don't think people on the sidelines will stay quiet on this one. History has shown that people like to share their thoughts around here. ;D
Hoopz
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History has shown that people like to share their thoughts around here. ;D
Damn right!
(I hope the humor in my reply here isn't too "inside"?)
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Well, these forums are to be used for discussion. God forbid someone has an opinion that runs counter to the popular one.
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Well, these forums are to be used for discussion. God forbid someone has an opinion that runs counter to the popular one.
We can't have people coming in and expressing their opinions around here and getting away with it. :angel:
???
;)
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Oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---...I've been possessed by Tommy. I was wondering why I started to tear up when the Giants won yesterday...
...and the sudden love of Pit Bulls.
:laugh2:
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Oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---...I've been possessed by Tommy.
I ain't afraid of no ghost.
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I would still buy yoke kits from him were he to offer them. I have a couple of yokes I'd like to rebuild and was waiting on a little more evidence of reliability before sending him cash. Then he sent me several (not cheap) NLA ICs for free and wouldn't accept money for beer or shipping. That was good enough evidence for me. I don't see a problem with the guy so long as he offers refunds to those who want them and there has been no indication that he hasn't given refunds.
They're still available from that online store that has all this NOS stuff......can't remember the name...
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They're still available from that online store that has all this NOS stuff......can't remember the name...
[/quote]
www.arcadeparts.com
Mylstars site...
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You sure? arcadeparts.com is registered to Happ Controls, Inc.
Registrant:
Happ Controls, Inc.
106 Garlisch Dr.
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
US
Domain Name: ARCADEPARTS.COM
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It's not arcadeparts it's www.videogameparts.com
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Whoa... $140 for the rebuild kit. Ouchy.
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It's not arcadeparts it's www.videogameparts.com
doh...I was still half asleep...
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Do you have any specific parts you need? I have a deluxe kit myself but only needed about 1/3 of the parts.
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Do you have any specific parts you need? I have a deluxe kit myself but only needed about 1/3 of the parts.
Thanks for the offer... probably won't get to this any time soon. I'll let you know when I do get to the Star Wars... maybe you'll have a part or to I need after I combine the best of the two yokes I have.
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I don't think you have completed a single one of your arcade projects since I've been here Chad. You need to get cracking! ;D
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Well, these forums are to be used for discussion. God forbid someone has an opinion that runs counter to the popular one.
Well you do know what they say about opinions and assh0les - everyone has one.. :laugh2:
An opinion is one thing, but for some around here that like to kick the dog, what I am suggesting is maybe those people should be thinking about it a little first before they let fly..
I know for one I would NEVER take on a arcade related project because of the basic crap that is thrown from people in this community that are happy to sit on the side lines and comment without taking in all the facts. If people would maybe keep their opinions to themselves or at the very least, had a modicum of tact in them, then maybe more people would take on projects. It is also this bullsh!t that probably keeps RAM from releasing their product until it is 110% perfect in fear of the backlash and guaranteed negative comments if the product is any less than up to the standards of those that don't put their money where their mouths are..
I've seen it before within the arcade community many many times where someone comes up with a project that they'll do in their spare time (ie. after work, after family etc) only to fall behind and cope the rath of the community and they think bugger it, I'm outta here.. Who is the looser at the end of the day? You and me..
Hoops
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03/15/08 - Star Wars yoke project finally coming to a close. Powdercoating issues appear to have been overcome once and for all. Check out the latest on the project here.
Correction: I was wrong...the power coating issue has been resolved according to his website. :dunno
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I don't think you have completed a single one of your arcade projects since I've been here Chad. You need to get cracking! ;D
I completed the Twilight Zone and the Laser Cue. :) The Laser Cue does need some remedial corrections, though, to be completely reliable. Stuff I didn't have the skills to do back then.
I've been working on this Berzerk lately. I didn't want this one to be a project, but wtf, that's what it turned out to be. :banghead:
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Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com
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Whoa... $140 for the rebuild kit. Ouchy.
Like my uncle always says: better expensive than not for sale.....
That entire site is pretty expensive, but hey, he has part nobody else sells.
Frizz, if Chad don't want those parts I might be interested. I'd have to have a look at my yoke first though....
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Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com
Thanks - I just sent him an email yesterday. We'll see what happens. Did you get your refund yet?
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Havok, I just sent to the sales@ram-controls.com
Thanks - I just sent him an email yesterday. We'll see what happens. Did you get your refund yet?
I read on RGVAC that David is out of the country (on a all expense paid vacation....Just kidding) on IT contract till 09'.
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I didn't and sent him a message Wednesday about it and he said it went out last week, but no problem he could do it again, and to resend the address info. I checked my original message for that and it was correct, and I've been getting my mail. So I dunno. Sent again and am waiting.
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Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.
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Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.
So Saint,
Exactly how many people need to have difficulty getting refunds and for how long before your opinion of RAM swings? Just wondering...
:cheers:
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Havok created this thread, not Ratzz or Frizz or anyone else.
Presumably Havok created this thread for public discussion. If that wasn't his intention, he would have emailed David privately, or PM'ed other members privately.
Ratzz and Frizz have as much a right to contribute to Havok's public discussion as anyone else.
But there's no point in anyone questioning David.
Ratzz, Frizz ... he's only sitting on the money of those who were "all too willing" to let him take it. If they lacked the common sense, or couldn't otherwise be bothered, to fight for their own money, then why should you bother ?
If they lose their money, so be it. Blind Freddy saw it coming. They can accept that fate.
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Okay, I have a couple things to post here.
1. I misunderstood what was told me. No other refunds had issues.
2. I just had a series of messages with David and someone in the company who has been handling things in his stead while he's doing contract work. Essentially what happened was the payment to me was accidentally sent to a supplier. Of course if they'd just paypal'd it this would've been done with two weeks ago. So stayed tuned. I'm waiting for a quick-sent envelope in the mail. Don't get the noose ready yet.
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Update: I've been messaged again with a confirmation and a UPS tracking number.
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Well, still no refund. It's been over two weeks now. Someone told me this has actually happened to someone else(s?) here. I don't remember the thread or posts, but I'll say officially that this deal is now in the stinking category. I'm not upset. If David wants this to turn out right, it would be in his interest to rectify things.
So Saint,
Exactly how many people need to have difficulty getting refunds and for how long before your opinion of RAM swings? Just wondering...
:cheers:
Just 1, which when I had posted there were 0. I still am optimistic though.
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I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.
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Despite the fact that the customers don't want him to to that? The project does seem a bit odd from that perspective.
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I have to say, as much as I have defended him based on what we know so far, the initial decision to take pre-orders was just asking for criticism, skepticism, and second-guessing. While I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the approach he did, I think he should have just worked quietly on the yoke, taking his time and providing occasional project status updates on his website, and left it at that. I bet in hindsight he would agree!
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I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.
I emailed asking to buy a unit that has everything except the handles. I'd be more than happy to put my own handles on if the rest of the unit is as high quaility as he says and they look. I never heard anything back.
Hell, I said I'd pay full price for a unit minus the handles because I already have handles I can use. Seems like that would be a good deal on his part.
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I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.
04/09/07 - Handles are completed. They turned out quite nice! [emphasis mine] They're going off to powder coat with the new vendor. Frame component powder coat is still failing inspection, therefore alternate powder coat vendor has been chosen for this task and frame components will be forwarded to them. Keep fingers crossed! At this point in time, the completion estimate will not be met, obviously. Pre-orders are still open, however, anyone who has already pre-ordered is welcome to request a refund given that I cannot meet the original expected completion date.
I am sorry, but 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in my world. I'm writing this project off as "vaperware"...
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It may be, but according to him - the current metal he used for the handles reacts poorly with the powdercoat process, and guarantees that they do not coat evenly.
Someone needs to start calling his other contracts, and have them drop him. Then he would have time to work on the yokes!
;D
Oh well, I can't see this not eventually coming out if he truly is as far ahead as his blog states. He's 99% done. I would think he only needs to come up with a new alloy, and use existing molds to make the new handles. He said he purchased his own powdercoating rig, so I can't see it taking that much more to complete. Hopefully sometime next year.
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Well I guess I'll throw my as... opinion in here as well. I've bought a couple things from Dave, spent a couple hundred dollars and although had a couple of week wait on one item that I shouldn't have, everything came in and I was VERY happy with it all. Dave contacted me directly about the problem item, sent out another item as soon as he could and all is well.
He also sent me several items over the years for free, including the shipping paid by him. Because of these reasons I mark him up as a good seller and a great guy.
If he's had your money for several months (or longer) on an item that is taking so long to come out, I wouldn't expect a refund immediately. He could be out of town, or maybe not even have access to the money right this second. If when you made the preorder, you got some sort of guarantee a about a refund instantly, it would be a different story.
This is a hobby, at times an expensive, and slow hobby. Really if that $200 is going to break you then don't spend it. If someone is making something and asks for preorders, it's up to you to get whatever details you need before sending the money. Stuff happens all the time to put hobbies off. This is the nature of the beast. If Dave is really supporting his family selling joystick parts to a few people on BYOAC, he's got bigger problems than you do...
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Yeah, I've already written off the $200 I gave him - but seeing the stuff he has put out, and the fact that eventually he does come through, I believe it will happen. Someday.
Besides, I have the dubious honor of being the oldest pre-order, so I get the first one!
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I got my refund today. Sent it overnight and arrived this morning.
I wasn't worried about the money, either. I just decided I wanted to spend it on something else.
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Well I guess I'll throw my as... opinion in here as well. I've bought a couple things from Dave, spent a couple hundred dollars and although had a couple of week wait on one item that I shouldn't have, everything came in and I was VERY happy with it all. Dave contacted me directly about the problem item, sent out another item as soon as he could and all is well.
He also sent me several items over the years for free, including the shipping paid by him. Because of these reasons I mark him up as a good seller and a great guy.
If he's had your money for several months (or longer) on an item that is taking so long to come out, I wouldn't expect a refund immediately. He could be out of town, or maybe not even have access to the money right this second. If when you made the preorder, you got some sort of guarantee a about a refund instantly, it would be a different story.
This is a hobby, at times an expensive, and slow hobby. Really if that $200 is going to break you then don't spend it. If someone is making something and asks for preorders, it's up to you to get whatever details you need before sending the money. Stuff happens all the time to put hobbies off. This is the nature of the beast. If Dave is really supporting his family selling joystick parts to a few people on BYOAC, he's got bigger problems than you do...
I'm with xtra.
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I purchased a Major Havoc controller from Ram Controls. It initially got shipped to the wrong person, but David was very quick to correct the problem. The controller's quality is absolutely top notch.
I hope David tightens up his business practices, because there are to many stories where he had to correct a mistake.
I also hope David does well, because I would love to be able to purchase a new Lunar Lander controller and a new pair of Assault joysticks.
But I'm happy to wait until they are actually shipping before I order...
- Mark
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Oh well, I can't see this not eventually coming out if he truly is as far ahead as his blog states. He's 99% done. I would think he only needs to come up with a new alloy, and use existing molds to make the new handles. He said he purchased his own powdercoating rig, so I can't see it taking that much more to complete. Hopefully sometime next year.
I agree, if what is posted on the site is accurate then everything is done except the handles.
That's why I found it a little confusing why I got no reply on purchasing the unit minus the handles, I told him I was perfectly fine with that and would even pay his full asking price. The way I figured, by the time I bought a used one and then the money needed to refurbish it I'd be ahead anyway. Made sense to me! Especially seeing what the price of a used yoke has been going for lately.
Seeing that he seems to be replying to people now maybe he was just busy when I inquired, so I'll write and ask again. I do however feel it's poor business to not respond to someone even if it's to say no.
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Yeah, I've already written off the $200 I gave him
Hey Havok,
It looks like you won't need to (write it off).
Ummon's got his refund, so you're looking sweet ...
I got my refund today.
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I just got an email from Davd - no new activity with the yoke. He will have to remanufacture the handles from a different alloy, and doesn't have time to dedicate to it right now. He says it will happen, but just not for a while.
04/09/07 - Handles are completed. They turned out quite nice! [emphasis mine] They're going off to powder coat with the new vendor. Frame component powder coat is still failing inspection, therefore alternate powder coat vendor has been chosen for this task and frame components will be forwarded to them. Keep fingers crossed! At this point in time, the completion estimate will not be met, obviously. Pre-orders are still open, however, anyone who has already pre-ordered is welcome to request a refund given that I cannot meet the original expected completion date.
I am sorry, but 1+1 doesn't equal 3 in my world. I'm writing this project off as "vaperware"...
I am sure what he means is that they physically turned out nice before powder coating. based on the remark about needing to use a different alloy, it all makes sense to me. Assuming these are casted handles, if he went with aluminum, I have no doubt that the powder coating looked like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---. I sourced a company to cast some aluminum parts that we were going to brush and then powder coat black and the alloy used for casting prevented a quality finish. We had to switch to zinc.
I think his biggest mistake here is not communicating more details...