Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: cadmium on August 24, 2008, 07:54:45 pm
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I know many people have dedicated 4 way sticks on their CP's for authentic control, but I don't have the room for an extra joystick and I currently have 2 Happ Competitions, so I'm trying to make it work out.
Is there a way to configure MAME to handle diagonal inputs better or some hack/patch to handle it better for 8-way controls on 4-way games?
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I've noticed some default key mappings have <key 1> NOT <key 2>. Perhaps you could do something like <left> NOT <top> NOT <bottom> (if you can do 2 NOT's)?
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Dumb question, how do I do a "NOT". Is it a config file, or something in game?
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A u360 with software to control the digital restriction is a very versatile joystick. A 49-way with digital restriction is another option. But you'd have to swap out your Happ Comps.
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Cadmium, have you thought about some kind of switchable 4-way/8-way stick instead of the Happ sticks you have now? A few years ago, I found an empty Pac-Man cabaret cabinet and a Rally-X cabaret cabinet. After restoring the cabinets and setting them up with MAME, I put Ultimarc MagStick Plus joysticks in both cabs, and I have been very pleased with them. Switching from 8-way to 4-way is as easy as pulling up slightly on the stick and giving the stick a twist to engage a restrictor plate.
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Is the u360 the same as the Happ Perfect 360, or is it a different product? Also, besides the cost of the joysticks, I'm guessing it wouldn't work with my I-Pac? Or do they just show up as mice or something?
I'm not sure I'd really like the feel of the stick, does anyone have a review on how they feel?
Edit, I think I figured it out, u = Ultimarc.
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Dumb question, how do I do a "NOT". Is it a config file, or something in game?
You can do it either way. To do it while mapping in MAME's tab menu, you quickly double tap the 'not' directions. For example, to map left to "left not up not down", press enter, press left once, then quickly tap up twice and quickly tap down twice.
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Dumb question, how do I do a "NOT". Is it a config file, or something in game?
You can do it either way. To do it while mapping in MAME's tab menu, you quickly double tap the 'not' directions. For example, to map left to "left not up not down", press enter, press left once, then quickly tap up twice and quickly tap down twice.
wow ill have to give this a try.
I also only have 2 8-way joysticks and i found playing ms pacman to be quite annoying unless you hit the directions perfectly.
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I've noticed some default key mappings have <key 1> NOT <key 2>. Perhaps you could do something like <left> NOT <top> NOT <bottom> (if you can do 2 NOT's)?
How would it handle diagonal inputs then? If you were pressing up, and you hit up and left, would it then register as up? Or would the left not up not down register? What about if you werent going any direction, then hit up and left? Would it register as up or left or neither, or still both?
Has anyone done this, and does it really improve using 8ways in a 4way game? It seems like it would do the same thing as not having the nots.
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It doesn't register as anything if you hit up/left or up/down at the same time (deadzone). It helps but is still no substitute for a true restricted joystick IMO.
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Agree with ahofle. It would mean whenever the joystick goes into a diagonal, it would be the same as if the joystick returned to center. Probably better than the standard 8 way alternative on a lot of the 4 way games like pacman and donkey kong.
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After reading around, I'm somewhat considering a u360 (despite the cost) as it would give me the ability to add some analog games into the mix (mostly vector star wars) and function better in 4-way games.
However I'm concerned about the stick performs with fighters, mostly Street Fighter. Can anyone post about their experience?
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Awesome with fighters, as far as I'm concerned. I love them for shmups as well....and 4-way....analog....etc
Great sticks.
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Awesome with fighters, as far as I'm concerned. I love them for shmups as well....and 4-way....analog....etc
Great sticks.
Further reading... further question. Do you use the longer stick, stiffer springs, or a restrictor plate?
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I use the standard length shaft with the balltop (mounted in a wood panel from underneath), with the med/hard spring, and a circular restrictor.
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It doesn't register as anything if you hit up/left or up/down at the same time (deadzone). It helps but is still no substitute for a true restricted joystick IMO.
Cool, good to know, thanks!
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You can do it either way. To do it while mapping in MAME's tab menu, you quickly double tap the 'not' directions. For example, to map left to "left not up not down", press enter, press left once, then quickly tap up twice and quickly tap down twice.
Thanks for that. Always wondeed how this was accomplished (and what function the 'not's' served).
I've never liked crowded panels but I'm not exactly a purist either. 4-ways like pac-man do play better when restricted but having a dedicated 4-way always seemed like a space waster to me. As one of my favourite multi-players (Super Bomberman) also plays funny with 8-way joysticks and I do like 4-way control occasionally, I have opted for 4 Mag-stick Pluses for my new panel to give the control option whilst maintaining a simple visual layout.
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You can do it either way. To do it while mapping in MAME's tab menu, you quickly double tap the 'not' directions. For example, to map left to "left not up not down", press enter, press left once, then quickly tap up twice and quickly tap down twice.
Thanks for that. Always wondeed how this was accomplished (and what function the 'not's' served).
I've never liked crowded panels but I'm not exactly a purist either. 4-ways like pac-man do play better when restricted but having a dedicated 4-way always seemed like a space waster to me. As one of my favourite multi-players (Super Bomberman) also plays funny with 8-way joysticks and I do like 4-way control occasionally, I have opted for 4 Mag-stick Pluses for my new panel to give the control option whilst maintaining a simple visual layout.
I'm looking at the Magsticks as well. Have you put together your CP and tried the sticks yet? I'm curious how they compare to the Happ Competitions.
I'd probably have gone for one or two of them, but they are over 3X the price of the Happs plus higher shipping, so cheaper than the u360's, but not really cheap.
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I've used the mag-stik+ a couple of times before on customer cabinets and they play really well. They have a short 'throw' wich I personally like - much like the Suzo 500's, but they have a very solid feel and the washer does not just flap about like it does on some sticks. No idea about the Happ ones you refer to as we ever use them, but being a builder I've experienced enough different controls to know I would prefer the mag-sticks for my own personal machine. If you can't stretch to the Mag-stick Plus, just go for the regular Mag-stick which isabout £5 ($10) cheaper. The only difference is it has to be switched from the underside of the panel, but at least you don't have to unscrew and move the restrictor plate; there's just a lever to move instead.
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Tough decision. Do I go for the cheaper (but not cheap) Mag-stick plus for ease of use and (more) authentic 4-way feel (with the restrictor)? Or do I go all the way (money-wise) for the u360 so I can get better 4-way (than my happ comps), decent 8-way and analog support (star wars!)? :dunno
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decent 8-way? Excellent 8-way!
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Tough decision. Do I go for the cheaper (but not cheap) Mag-stick plus for ease of use and (more) authentic 4-way feel (with the restrictor)? Or do I go all the way (money-wise) for the u360 so I can get better 4-way (than my happ comps), decent 8-way and analog support (star wars!)? :dunno
I recently had to make the same decision. I went with the U360 and it works so well for any game that I can't believe I thought the decision was tough. If you got the money to get all those little add-ons (wiring harness, circular restrictor, etc) then the U360 will do no wrong.
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Definitely go for the U360. It's pretty much the best all around stick for everything.
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Definitely go for the U360. It's pretty much the best all around stick for everything.
Do you mind if I ask, what can the U360 do that the MagStick Plus can't? I went to see Andy (I pass fairly close to his house to and from work) to try them both and much, much preferred the short throw and "feel" of the MagStick Plus compared to the longer throw of the U360, so bought two of those. Could I have played more games on the U360 then? What have I ruled out?
Thanks all
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The 360 has a gap between straight and diagonals by default, which makes it work pretty good on pacman by default. You could even program it to be dedicated 4 way. A mag stick goes from left, to left-up to up without 'gaps'.
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Do you mind if I ask, what can the U360 do that the MagStick Plus can't? I went to see Andy (I pass fairly close to his house to and from work) to try them both and much, much preferred the short throw and "feel" of the MagStick Plus compared to the longer throw of the U360, so bought two of those. Could I have played more games on the U360 then? What have I ruled out?
Thanks all
The u360 is an analog joystick that can be digitally restricted using software. In other words, it can be configured any way you want; 8-way, 4-way, 2-way (Defender), 4-way diagonal (QBert), etc. Using the mapping software, you can create any active or inactive regions you want - for example, I increased the dead-zone for my 8-way mode. Also, there's software and FE plug-ins available that will load the correct map for each game as you play. As for the physical characteristics, the default spring is rather light and most people opt to upgrade to the stiffer spring. You can also add a restrictor plate that will shorten the throw. My cp has u360's for p1 and p2 and Happ Supers for p3 and p4 - with the stiff springs and restrictor plates, the sticks all have a similar feel (length of throw and tension). The u360 versatility just can't be beat!
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Heh, so no-one is voting for the Mag-stick? Btw, is the optional wiring harness only needed for connecting additional buttons? I already have an I-Pac, so I won't need the button support. Is there any other use for it?
Also, if I end up replacing a Happ competition with the bat style u360, mounted from below 3/4 mdf, do I need the extra long stick to keep the stick about the same height, or is the default one long enough?
I don't have any plexi or anything.
I priced it out, the u360 with the spring upgrade and circular restrictor plate is $90 shipped. That's without the longer stick and that's as much as everything else on my CP combined :cry:
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You won't need the wiring harness. It's only for connecting buttons or using the U360 with an encoder (you'll just use the USB more than likely).
You might need the longer shaft if you're using 3/4" MDF. I'm using 1/2" w/ 1/8" plexi and my balltop is mounted from underneath. The balltop, I believe, has a shorter standard shaft, but it's fine for me. I think the bat top shaft will be fine as-is, but if not, you could order the longer one from Divemaster later and save on shipping.
As for the price, it's worth it. I bought two, and the best part was MY WIFE WENT FOR IT! She loves the U360s and says they are worth every penny.
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You won't need the wiring harness. It's only for connecting buttons or using the U360 with an encoder (you'll just use the USB more than likely).
You might need the longer shaft if you're using 3/4" MDF. I'm using 1/2" w/ 1/8" plexi and my balltop is mounted from underneath. The balltop, I believe, has a shorter standard shaft, but it's fine for me. I think the bat top shaft will be fine as-is, but if not, you could order the longer one from Divemaster later and save on shipping.
As for the price, it's worth it. I bought two, and the best part was MY WIFE WENT FOR IT! She loves the U360s and says they are worth every penny.
I'll have to copy the wife on that statement ;)