Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: pinballwizard79 on July 29, 2008, 07:40:36 pm
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I want to add a "wheel & pedals" set to my arcade.
There are some really good PC wheels with force feedback that I would like to use since I also plan on playing TOCA, other new racing games & etc.
The Logitech G25 is the one I am leaning towards.
I hear about 270 degree arcade wheels not working on games requiring 360 degree arcade wheels & vice versa but most PC wheels have a 900 degree turning radius.
Every now & then I see PC wheels bolted on a few cabinets but it never interested me until now.
Analog steering & pedals....how compatible is that in pole position, outrun & etc?
Any insight would be appreciated, thanks.
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Hey Pin, why not just buy a real arcade wheel from Happ along with a Opti-PAC or Mini-PAC from Ultimarc? Those PC wheels are so cheap they might not last too long. Happ has the industrial Pole Position wheels...
http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac1.html
http://www.ultimarc.com/minipac.html
http://www.happ.com/driving/driving_amusement.htm
If you buy wheels from Happ, make sure you grab a few replacement timing belts too...
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Randy T, can you chime in and give Pin some advice? You carry some interface control boards over at GGG, what can he grab there? Actually, I would like to know too. I am ignorant about the Wiz products. ???
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Ultimarc sell this arcade "Pole Position" steering wheel, for $119 :
http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html#cabparts
http://www.ultimarc.com/JShopServer/section.php?xSec=9
Ultimarc offer a number of alternative interfaces for it :
* U-HID
* U-HID Nano
* Opti-PAC
* Mini-PAC
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Ultimarc sell this arcade "Pole Position" steering wheel, for $119 :
http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html#cabparts
http://www.ultimarc.com/JShopServer/section.php?xSec=9
Ultimarc offer a number of alternative interfaces for it :
* U-HID
* U-HID Nano
* Opti-PAC
* Mini-PAC
Think I just said that. But why not buy from Happ, same thing but half the price? Shipping would be cheaper too...
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Think I just said that.
There's a certain smugness in that reply.
You only listed two of Ultimarc's interfaces.
You didn't mention that Ultimarc sell the Steering Wheel itself. You also didn't mention the newer interface options (U-HID & U-HID Nano).
You reckon the Happ wheel is half the price of Ultimarc's ? The exact opposite applies.
Ultimarc's wheel is $119, the equivalent wheel from Happ (360 optical) is $265.50 :
http://www.happcontrols.com/driving/50283700.htm
BTW, are you starting up a signature collection on Frizzle ? That's the second unflattering signature you've created about him, in the last few days. CheffoJeffo dropped a not-so-subtle hint, perhaps you missed it ... Rule 11.
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Perhaps Frizzle should change his sig too.. Like his, mine is just a quote too. Infact, despite your comment, Frizzle and I have gotten along over the last 8 hours and I hope it continues. If Jon wants me to change my sig, than all he has to do is ask, it shall be done. Not a big deal to me...
Back to the wheel, someone could do a write up on analog & optical wheels if there isnt anything already out there... Im lost on this subject too...
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Think I just said that.
There's a certain smugness in that reply.
Gees... Are you serious? Well I appologize if I came off too harsh. Amd I'm not trying to be smug or smart, I appologize. The more information one has, the better...
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Frizzle and I have gotten along over the last 8 hours ...
It's amazing what can happen in the space of 8 hours ... have you guys been out on a speed date ? :laugh2:
He'll be gushing over your new signature. :)
The more information one has, the better.
Too right. :cheers:
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The date is set for Friday... ;D
We just had a disagreement, thats all. It happens. We both had our say, Im good...
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CheffoJeffo dropped a not-so-subtle hint, perhaps you missed it ... Rule 11.
C'mon -- it was pretty subtle ... for me anyway!
;)
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Those PC wheels are so cheap they might not last too long.
You've obviously never seen a G25.
They are the best wheel I've ever used.
My only complaint at all is that the pedals are too close together.
My size 11's have trouble getting only the brake, when I need to.
No 270 wheel is going to replace a 360 wheel though, even the G25.
You need a wheel that literally goes around and around, with no limit to it.
You can get 360 wheels really cheap on ebay all the time.
Mount it, slap on a mouse hack, and you're done.
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Those PC wheels are so cheap they might not last too long.
You've obviously never seen a G25.
They are the best wheel I've ever used.
My only complaint at all is that the pedals are too close together.
My size 11's have trouble getting only the brake, when I need to.
No 270 wheel is going to replace a 360 wheel though, even the G25.
You need a wheel that literally goes around and around, with no limit to it.
You can get 360 wheels really cheap on ebay all the time.
Mount it, slap on a mouse hack, and you're done.
Problem is, if you want to get the best out of your driving games, you kind of need BOTH a 360 and a 270 wheel. while 270 games can work with a 360 wheel, you can overspin the wheel and have a hell of a time controlling the car and making subtle steering movements needed. Also, games that used a 360 wheel most likely also used ON/OFF accelerator and brake pedals. MOst games with 270 wheel used analog gas/break controls.
360 games require a 360 wheel to play properly.
This is why I have no wheel yet for my cab, I just can't decide what the heck to do.
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i looked at it this way, i would (in reality) probably only play race games 1% of the time. And race games (in my cab) consist of about 1% of my total games. SO why permanently mount a steering wheel to my cab?
I went with logictech because you can remove it at will (from my cab's control panel not all have the lip in the front to do this)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/th_MOV02926.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v622/lemoncade/?action=view¤t=MOV02926.flv)
that's how i have mine (video)
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"270" wheels is just the short way of saying "limited turn with absolute analog signal". And "360" wheels is short for "unrestricted turn with incremental analog signal". POTs send out absolute analog, optical sensors send incremental, but absolute and incremental are wider classes that contain more than just POT or optical, respectively.
270 degrees is the normal limited turn angle, but it varies from 260 to 280, as well as a few 900-1080 degree wheels. Most PC wheels are still ~270 degrees, although 900 looks to now be the "high end PC wheel standard".
Anyway, 900 degree wheels are still limited turn, and absolute analog, so they still won't work well for unlimited turn incremental analog for games that originally used them.
Translation:
"900 degree wheels are still '270 degree' wheels, so they still suck for 360 degree games in mame, and do fine for 270 degree games."
So, PC wheels ("270 type"):
Suck at pole position (a "360" game)
Fine for outrun (a "270" game)
Analog pedals are fine for mame.
FWIW,
Hard Drivin had 1080 degree limited turn wheels way back in the day.
Road Blasters had a limited turn incremental analog wheel (aka half "270", half "360").
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Rebel scum it all makes sense now.
Looks like I am going to purchase the GGG 7" wheel attachment AND the G25.
Then both avenues are covered.
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Rebel scum it all makes sense now.
Looks like I am going to purchase the GGG 7" wheel attachment AND the G25.
Then both avenues are covered.
What is the GGG 7" wheel attachment? what is GGG?
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What is the GGG 7" wheel attachment? what is GGG?
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/ (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/)
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what is GGG?
OK, you haven't heard of GGG ...
Some explanation may be in order.
GGG sell the TurboTwist 2 (TT2) spinner, for which a steering wheel accessory is available.
The steering wheel is available in 5, 6, or 7 inch diameters. The wheel doesn't need affixing to the spinner, as it's held in place through its own weight. The wheel can therefore be easily removed when not in use.
Hope that helps. :)
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=268
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Umm, couple questions for riehm....
First, what model logitech wheel are you using? I havent seen one with clamp fasteners - only suction cups. But I do have the lip on the front of my panel so this should work for me. I assume this connects via USB to the PC and your analog pedal mount is on the floor connected to the steering wheel?
Second, I also use Maximus Arcade as my FE and was wondering where you got the mame emulator picture? I would prefer that one to the standard LCD computer monitor with Smash TV on it.
Thanks
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I saw one when I was doing a google product search. Don't remember what it was called, but try doing a search.
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First, what model logitech wheel are you using? I havent seen one with clamp fasteners - only suction cups.
The G25 is top of the line.
It's an 11" leather wrapped, metal wheel, with 900 degree steering, metal pedals, and a 6-speed gate shifter.
The force feedback and amount of wheel travel are adjustable in the control panel.
I keep mine set to 360 degrees, which gives the wheel 180 degrees in each direction before you hit any major resistance.
You can also use the control panel to set the wheel to self-center with an adjustable amount of "spring" tension.
The Driving Force Pro is the next step down.
It still has the 900 degree steering, but only has an up/down shifter, and has plastic pedals with only a gas/brake setup.
It's still worlds above the other guy's offerings, and is much more affordable than the G25.
The Driving Force EX is the next step down.
This is where they start feeling really cheap.
It has about 200 degree steering, and the force feedback is really cheesy compared to the other two.
The nice thing about these is that they are compatible with with older Playstation games because they have a PS1 connector on them.
All three of these have clamps, but the ones on the G25 twist tight, and then push into the body of the wheel, so they are less visible.
Another push on them pops them back up, so that you can twist them off when necessary.
The carpet grippers on the G25/Driving Force Pro are really nice.
The ones on the Driving Force EX are not as good.
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what is GGG?
OK, you haven't heard of GGG ...
Some explanation may be in order.
GGG sell the TurboTwist 2 (TT2) spinner, for which a steering wheel accessory is available.
The steering wheel is available in 5, 6, or 7 inch diameters. The wheel doesn't need affixing to the spinner, as it's held in place through its own weight. The wheel can therefore be easily removed when not in use.
Hope that helps. :)
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=268
Does anyone know if the GGG steering wheels can connect to other spinners, such as the Tornado? I'd rather not change my spinner if I don't have to.
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Umm, couple questions for riehm....
First, what model logitech wheel are you using? I havent seen one with clamp fasteners - only suction cups. But I do have the lip on the front of my panel so this should work for me. I assume this connects via USB to the PC and your analog pedal mount is on the floor connected to the steering wheel?
Second, I also use Maximus Arcade as my FE and was wondering where you got the mame emulator picture? I would prefer that one to the standard LCD computer monitor with Smash TV on it.
Thanks
this link will help answer questions about the steering wheel, it's what gave me the direction i took with mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPw4WFK4TDs
Also, I got the image, and others from the maximusarcade website. There is a forum there for people who change the front end visually. There is a post there with a lot of different images and how to get them added.
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First, what model logitech wheel are you using? I havent seen one with clamp fasteners - only suction cups.
The G25 is top of the line.
It's an 11" leather wrapped, metal wheel, with 900 degree steering, metal pedals, and a 6-speed gate shifter.
The force feedback and amount of wheel travel are adjustable in the control panel.
I keep mine set to 360 degrees, which gives the wheel 180 degrees in each direction before you hit any major resistance.
You can also use the control panel to set the wheel to self-center with an adjustable amount of "spring" tension.
The Driving Force Pro is the next step down.
It still has the 900 degree steering, but only has an up/down shifter, and has plastic pedals with only a gas/brake setup.
It's still worlds above the other guy's offerings, and is much more affordable than the G25.
The Driving Force EX is the next step down.
This is where they start feeling really cheap.
It has about 200 degree steering, and the force feedback is really cheesy compared to the other two.
The nice thing about these is that they are compatible with with older Playstation games because they have a PS1 connector on them.
All three of these have clamps, but the ones on the G25 twist tight, and then push into the body of the wheel, so they are less visible.
Another push on them pops them back up, so that you can twist them off when necessary.
The carpet grippers on the G25/Driving Force Pro are really nice.
The ones on the Driving Force EX are not as good.
So where does the Logitech MOMO racing wheel fit into these categories? Logitech's website only has the G25 and this MOMO wheel listed (under the PC gaming section). Is the Driving Force Pro only for PS 2 and 3?
The G25 is way too expensive so with that one out of the equation, which one would you select (assuming you didnt already have the G25)?
Thanks
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bump
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So where does the Logitech MOMO racing wheel fit into these categories?
They are very similar in feel to the EX.
My biggest issue with them is that they don't have the 900 degree steering.
Is the Driving Force Pro only for PS 2 and 3?
They only officially support it for the PS2/PS3.
It shows up as a Driving Force Pro in the Logitech Profiling Software, and has its has adjustments for the 900 degree steering, etc...
The G25 is way too expensive so with that one out of the equation, which one would you select (assuming you didnt already have the G25)?
I would get the Driving Force Pro, if you can afford that.
Not hitting the end of the wheel's travel, is worth the extra money by itself to me.
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They only officially support it for the PS2/PS3.
It shows up as a Driving Force Pro in the Logitech Profiling Software, and has its has adjustments for the 900 degree steering, etc...
So, your last sentence there is a little hard to follow. Could you eloborate a little?
So then does this wheel connect to the PC via USB? If not how do you connect it?
Sorry for being so inquisitive but I am looking to pull the trigger on one as soon as I find a decent deal on E-bay.
Thanks
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So, your last sentence there is a little hard to follow. Could you eloborate a little?
They don't have any technical support available for those wanting to use the DFP on a PC.
They did include drivers/pictures, specifically for the DFP, in their PC profiling software.
As long as you don't run into any problems in compatibility with your specific hardware it will work great.
And the wheel does hook up via USB.
That's why I have the EX versions as well.
The DFP won't show up in older Playstation games, so you have to use the EX connected to the Playstation controller port on the PS2.
The EX version has both USB and PS-port connectors.
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I decided to go with a 270 wheel rather than a 360 wheel because, while there are some really great games in MAME that use a 360 wheel, they pale in comparison to modern PC racing games. So if I can only do one or the other, I opted for the modern games over the classics.
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Can someone give me a comparison to the Thrustmaster RGT
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=8&PlatformID=5
I have not played either and I want to make the correct choice. I have owned Thrustmaster sticks for years. I would never choose a logitec joystick over theirs so I lean toward their product. I do like the shifter on the Logitec better bu the looks of it.
Has anyone used both? And can offer their opinion.
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Stub that one does look like an interesting alternative.
Have any of you driving guru's used this wheel?
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Can someone give me a comparison to the Thrustmaster RGT
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=8&PlatformID=5
If you are thinking of a sit-down driving cab, the Logitech would certainly be far easier to implement. The gear shifter on that Thrustmaster is permanently attached to the steering wheel unit. In a cab, you would want the gear shifter to be down by your right leg, like a real car, not up on the dashboard next to the wheel.
Additionally, the Logitech G25 is compatible with PC and Playstation 3. Considering that there is really nothing on the PC that can compare to the likes of Burnout Paradise and Gran Tourismo 5, this seems like an important distinction.
Lastly, reviewers pretty consistently say that the Logitech G25 is the best wheel they've ever used. I haven't used either (though I own Logitech's previous top-of-the-line model, the Momo Force, which is an amazingly good product), but at least you can be confident that regardless of whether the G25 is better than the Thrustmaster, it is at least a superb wheel. So if having a separated shifter unit or Playstation 3 compatibility is even slightly appealing to you, I'd say your decision is made*.
* I don't know how much the Thrustmaster costs. If it's way less than the Logitech that probably affects my argument a bit.
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I found a couple of places online that has the Thrustmaster for around $120.
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I'd love to buy the TT2 360 spinner with the wheel-top but it isn't tall enough to clear the top of a joystick I have nearby (about 1.3" tall and needs to be a little over 2" tall). Maybe he can make one just a wee bit taller; that would open up a world of options for me. ;)
What would be another great option is a wheel that supports BOTH 360 and 270 (if such a thing is even physically possible).
Shoegazer
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Hi all,
New to the forum and in month 6 or so of designing my CP. One option I'd like to have is to be able to mount a Momo or G25 steering wheel to the front of my CP, but I can't get good info on the "footprint" required for either wheel---both over and under the CP (how much lip and unused CP space do I need). Any info from wheel owners would be greatly appreciated.
Ryan
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The G25 needs about 7" clear on top, and 1-1/2" clear on the bottom.
Make sure your CP doesn't round over too much on the top as well.
That makes the wheel slip off the top a bit.
I don't know what the minimum thickness you can use is because I don't have mine mounted to a cabinet.
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I have a DFP that is almost unused (I used it for about 4 hours total) that I will be selling since I just ordered a G25. I'll be out of town until Dec, but when I get back I'll throw it on the buy/sell forum. If you are interested shoot me a PM.
It is a great wheel, but I want something that is more heavy duty for the looks, and I like the clutch on the G25.
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Anybody try a star wars yoke for 270 degree driving games, just wondering if it has enough turning radius as a true 270 degree wheels
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Funny.... this old thread was bumped today evidently...and I am reading through it and came to where Spaced Ace evidently had something disparaging about me in his sig... and it was THEN that I realized I was reading and old thread. The funny part is that I don't even remember WTF our disagreement was about....at all.
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Anybody try a star wars yoke for 270 degree driving games, just wondering if it has enough turning radius as a true 270 degree wheels
They work fine as a 270 wheel.
You can also use them for games like Paperboy, that used offshoots of the yoke type controller.