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Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: Miles on June 05, 2003, 05:35:16 pm

Title: Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Miles on June 05, 2003, 05:35:16 pm: I have a Connect3D Radeon 9000 graphics card connected to my TV with an S-video -> SCART adapter.

The TV claims to be PAL and NTSC compatible.

If I set the TV format to "PAL I" (United Kingdom) in display properties, I get a colour picture at 50Hz refresh rate. This is fine for playing DivX video clips, etc.

However, for MAME I would rather have a 60Hz display, so I can turn on triple buffering to prevent tearing in scrolling. (If I turn it on in 50Hz mode then games run at 83% speed). In display properties, if I set the TV format to "NTSC M" and reboot, I do get 60Hz display on my TV - but in black and white. The TV has 4 options for color system: auto, PAL, NTSC 3.6 and NTSC 4.4 but no matter what I set it to the picture is always in black and white.

I have looked everywhere for a solution to this, the best suggestion I can find is to flash the card's BIOS to allow a PAL-60 output. I would really rather not risk messing around with the BIOS if I can avoid it - please can anyone help explain where I'm going wrong?
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Carsten Carlos on June 06, 2003, 10:48:43 am: You've to set the graphics-card to NTSC - there should be an option for this on your card, but I don't know this model.
At least there should be a registry-setting concerning the graphicscard-driver.
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: radiator on June 06, 2003, 08:17:48 pm: Quote from: Miles on June 05, 2003, 05:35:16 pm
If I turn it on in 50Hz mode then games run at 83% speed

man, i get that exact same problem (my tv only supports 50Hz), but i tried running through a 60Hz tv, and it didn't solve it...
...do you get choppy sound too?

i also used to get the same problem when using NTSC through my old (60Hz) tv...not sure how to fix it...

???
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Miles on June 07, 2003, 03:31:49 am: Quote from: Carsten Carlos on June 06, 2003, 10:48:43 am
You've to set the graphics-card to NTSC - there should be an option for this on your card, but I don't know this model.
At least there should be a registry-setting concerning the graphicscard-driver.

It is set to NTSC in Display Properties. Let me see if I can upload a picture:

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/miles.and.jayne/ntsc.JPG)
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Carsten Carlos on June 07, 2003, 05:20:21 am: Quote
It is set to NTSC in Display Properties.

Damn. No idea why it doesn't work - I would try to get your PC to another TV just for testing where the fault is.

It seems like the NTSC-input of your TV isn't fully compatible with the standards - it sure should though.

Quote
connected to my TV with an S-video -> SCART adapter.
Ooops, missed this one! First, have a look if your TV is still set to SVIDEO input instead of Composite when you have switched to NTSC.
If this setting is right, try connecting it via composite instead of S-Video - picture would get worse, though, but maybe you'll get color this way. If so, either it doesn't support S-Video NTSC (again, it should), or the setting of the TV (composite/S-video) is still wrong.

Also, try another resolution. On a TV you won't get real 1024x768. I'd suggest going with 640x480.
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: NiN^_^NiN on June 07, 2003, 12:34:50 pm: Well i dont know if this will help but i have a tv card which displayed right on my tv but not on the other tv and i found out that there wasnt a jumper on the card setting it to pal or ntsc so i put the jumper on pal and it worked so i would say check the card for jumper settings it might have hertz settings for it so u can set it to 50 id ont know but the hardware settings overwrite the software 1's
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: StephenH on June 08, 2003, 02:03:46 am: Try Adjusting the color and tint/hue controls on the TV.

Also, try lowering the video resolution. Some TVs use B&W if the resolution is too high.

Also, turn ON AFC or "Auto Color". Some TVs display B&W with them off.
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Miles on June 08, 2003, 04:43:43 am: Thank you everyone for you help!

The TV is set to S-video (it actually calls it SVHS).

I can't see it being the screen resolution or the colour control on the TV because I use exactly the same settings when I use a PAL 50Hz display, and the picture is fine. I'll try 640x480 just to make sure.

Can't remember seeing any jumpers on the card but I will have a look.

It could be that the TV doesn't fully support NTSC, but I think that NTSC M (in Display Properties setting) is the same as NTSC 3.6 (TV on-screen menu setting). Unfortunately I don't have another TV I could try. Maybe I could set my DVD player to output pure NTSC instead of PAL-60 and try that?

I tried the composite input last night, using the S-video min DIN -> composite RCA lead I got with the card. For some reason, the card didn't detect that there was a TV connected! So I messed around with the cable - I don't recommend you try this yourselves - I got the display set up for S-video then switched the leads while the PC was turned on. Same results - worked in colour in PAL mode, but black and white in NTSC mode.

Finally Radiator: The reason the games play at 83% speed is because most games in MAME run at 60 fps, and because I use settings to syncronize the display, the game is forced to 50 fps (50/60 = 83%). I can get 100% when the TV is in 60Hz, just no colour!
Title: Re:Black and white display on TV using NTSC standard
Post by: Miles on June 08, 2003, 02:56:43 pm: Quote from: Miles on June 08, 2003, 04:43:43 am
Maybe I could set my DVD player to output pure NTSC instead of PAL-60 and try that?
Tried this; and it appears that the problem does lie with my TV, not the vid card. Normally the DVD is set to output RGB though the SCART. I changed it to a composite signal, played an NTSC disc and the picture is again in b+w.

So for the vid card I have two options: flash the BIOS to allow a PAL-60 output, or make up a VGA -> RGB SCART lead. I think the first sounds easier, but the most informative sites about this on the web are in Russian.