The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: leapinlew on June 29, 2008, 05:23:59 pm
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For those of you who didn't check out my Project Announcement - you can see it here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80178.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=80178.0)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10fPGXbAjRM[/youtube]
I did not hack Mame to do this, it had already been done. I spoke with the developer who made the modifications and he provided me a DIFF file. I modified Mame with the DIFF file and removed the nag screens.
The modifications are the reason I built my cabinet. I always wanted to play these 2 games with a spinner - feels more natural to me.
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Holy crap, look how fast you turn!
Nice work.
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I was gonna ask in your other thread how that was playing gyruss. I'd like to try that sometime, but I'll have to wait until I buy another TT2.
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Bravo. Just outstanding. I thought that time pilot only shot in 8 directions. Looks like there is more in your vid.
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I hate to ask this since it's probably either common knowledge or already addressed but I missed it (I read both threads but skipped around a little) but can you tell me what one would need to do to get the spinner to work in Gyruss and Time Pilot? Oddly, I want to try that in Time Pilot 84. :dunno
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That's pretty interesting, I wouldn't mind trying this out as long as the default can also stay there. Would work weird with Time Pilot, but makes sense, wherever you are shooting is where you are also flying. Did your brain have to be "retrained" with both these games?
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Wow night and day for all those game eh?
I love spinner games. Maybe you can advise on how you did that, so I can do the same.
Nice vid BTW. :cheers:
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Any chance of the diff file?
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Yes please share the diff with us.
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Whilst I'm a bit of stickler for original controls I have to agree those games should of been made with a spinner, can you do the same for Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe, Star Trek etc?
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awesome!!!
are these games made for a spinner in the early stage of development or makes the hack the ships rotate fast?
ps: i want a spinner-puzzle-bobble ;)
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Star Trek
Star Trek is already a spinner game.
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Star Trek
Star Trek is already a spinner game.
SHH! I was going to tell him I could do it.
As a bonus, I will also make Tempest a spinner game! Attached is the diff file. Please rename it to diff.diff. I compiled it with .105 version of MAME. Have fun.
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can you do the same for Asteroids, Asteroids Deluxe
In recent versions of Mame you can map mouse inputs to digital inputs so this is already possible - not sure when this ability was added. Doesn't help for 'odd' games like Gyruss of course.
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Neat idea of mapping the dial to the player position address in RAM.
I imagine this could be easily expanded to cheat in other games. Such as mapping the dial to the player's position in Space Invaders, Galaxian, etc. These games might up being a lot easier though when using a spinner.
BTW, yes I did add the ability to map a spinner to buttons in the MAME source. But hacking the games as has been done in this patch, bypasses the games routine that determines how fast you rotate. So with the current MAME code, mapping the spinner to the buttons will only allow you to move as fast as the original game (eg Asteroids) allowed. No matter how fast you spin.
Hacking the dial into the RAM location allows you to move as fast as you want. Cheating, but what the heck. :)
D.
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So with the current MAME code, mapping the spinner to the buttons will only allow you to move as fast as the original game (eg Asteroids) allowed. No matter how fast you spin.
Hacking the dial into the RAM location allows you to move as fast as you want.
And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.
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How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??
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Is hiscore saving added to this diff or do i still have to use the other diff for that?
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How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??
There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.
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And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.
Point taken...might be OK for games with quick movement. Not so good with Space Invaders.
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I'm compiling mame 118 and adding this diff and hiscore diff. I complied adding this diff and then the hiscore diff. Hiscore is working but no analog controls in gyruss. Is there a specific order you have to add the diffs in?
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I'm compiling mame 118 and adding this diff and hiscore diff. I complied adding this diff and then the hiscore diff. Hiscore is working but no analog controls in gyruss. Is there a specific order you have to add the diffs in?
Did you get any errors when applying the diff? leapinlew said he compiled it with v0.105...things have probably changed since then causing the diff to fail.
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Games that would be cool with a spinner:
Asteroids
Asteroids Deluxe
Sinistar
Time Pilot `84
...
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I wasn't paying real close attention I compiled this. I compiled it again and it does produce errors. Here is the output from the mame compiler that headkaze made.
Applying Diff Patch...
can't find file to patch at input line 4
Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
The text leading up to this was:
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|diff -Nrc srco/drivers/asteroid.c src/drivers/asteroid.c
|*** srco/drivers/asteroid.c Tue Feb 28 12:39:16 2006
|--- src/drivers/asteroid.c Fri Jun 1 22:38:06 2007
--------------------------
Looking through the src directory for mame118 that driver folder has moved inside a folder named mame. I'll try and edit that diff file and see if I can get it working.
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The games supported are asteroid, pacman, galaxian, galaga, gyruss, and timepilot
Pac-man doesn't work so well.
Other games that need to support it:
Timepilot 84
Asteroid Deluxe
Star Castle
Puzzle Bobble
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I tried to replace drivers/asteroid.c with drivers/mame/asteroid.c in that diff file. I'm still getting the can't find file to patch. Is there something else I need to change? Below is the original line from the diff and then the line I updated
Original
diff -Nrc srco/drivers/asteroid.c src/drivers/asteroid.c
Updated
diff -Nrc srco/drivers/mame/asteroid.c src/drivers/mame/asteroid.c
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You could always just patch v0.105 and use this version only for these few games...
Edit: Actually, using HeadKaze's Mame Compiled, I got stuck compiling v0.105:
Assembling src/windows/asmblit.asm...
process_begin: CreateProcess(NULL, nasmw -o obj/mame/windows/asmblit.o -f coff src/windows/asmblit.asm, ...) failed.
make (e=2): The system cannot find the file specified.
mingw32-make: *** [obj/mame/windows/asmblit.o] Error 2
To get around this, I downloaded NASM from:
http://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=6208&use_mirror=dfn&filename=nasm-2.03.01-win32.zip&7573627
Bung the downloaded files in your \mingw\bin folder, and rename 'nasm.exe' to nasmw.exe'.
...however I get some more errors at the end. I had to disable the galaxian and pacman drivers for it to compile. So I only enabled drivers altered by the patch (and excluding these two):
in \src\mamedriv.c:
DRIVER( asteroid )
DRIVER( decocass ) - not sure what is altered
DRIVER( galaga )
DRIVER( gyruss )
DRIVER( tempest ) - not sure what is altered
DRIVER( timeplt )
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isn't there a more easy way to patch for example the latest version?
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isn't there a more easy way to patch for example the latest version?
Someone would need to update the patch for the latest source code. I don't know, but this might not be straightforward since some very major things have changed since v0.105.
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How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??
There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.
I don't get it....how would you use a trackball in TnF?
So Lew, are you getting acceptable scores now?
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How about Track and Field with a trackball finally ??
There was an arcade version of Track and Field that used a trackball.
Not sure if its a different ROM or a toggle since I always play the button version.
I don't get it....how would you use a trackball in TnF?
So Lew, are you getting acceptable scores now?
I can answer that having done so in my distant youth.
You wail the hell out of it in the direction you want to run. If you've ever played or seen Atari Football played, it's essentially the same thing only you just roll the heck out of the ball instead of pounding the ever lovin' out of the buttons.
VERY different in feel ,but it worked fine.
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I came across this thread a little while ago & finally got around to trying this out.
IT WORKS AND IT'S AWESOME!!! :cheers:
Thanks, Fry!
I simply downloaded the 105 source code, applied the diff included in this thread, & compiled with Headkaze's MAME Compiler 64. I had v114 but saw that v115 supports MAME v105, so I downloaded the new v116 of MAME Compiler 64. I didn't have to mess with the NASM stuff, MinWah.
For reference, my settings were: Optimize for Pentium 4 -SSE3, & I had only the Disable WError (<0.118u5) box checked.
For me, the usable games are Time Pilot, Gyruss, Galaga, Asteroids, & Galaxian. I don't see the point of using a spinner/trackball for Pac-Man, & I didn't bother with Tempest & the DECO Cassette games, which were also listed in the patch code (I just tried Bump & Jump & Highway Chase, which I could see benefitting from spinner control, but cbnj & chwy didn't seem to work with a mouse...)
Thanks! Can't wait to drop this MAME into my cab!
-Jason
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Howdy-
Well, I got these 5 games set up. They're awesome. There were a few hiccups & one final detail that I can't iron out.
I'm using MaLa & I created 5 new dummy roms called spintime, spin aste, spingyru, spingalg, & spingalx. This way, I can keep the original games & have the original & the hack next to each other in my game list & let the user select which version to play.
I have MaLa set to launch a .bat file instead of MAME, so I can incorporate multiple MAMEs in my list & Daphne games too. See SGT's awesome thread in the MaLa forum for more info.
Hiccups: if you have this MAME executable to run the spin versions in the same folder & using the same ROMs as the MAME executable that runs the normal versions, they'll fight over the .ini file. I ran the spinner version, set the analog control to Mouse 6 (my spinner of choice on my cab for these games...), played, then ran the non-spinner version. When I went to re-run the spinner version of the game, the .ini file had been rewritten & the mouse had defaulted back to Mouse 1.
So, I put the new spinner MAME into another folder & made another set of ROMs there & folders for ini, config, & artwork.
Still, when I launched the files from the bat, it was using the "main" set of ROMs, not the alternate set.
I had to create 2 separate command line commands in my bat file to first change the directory to spinner MAME directory, and *then* launch the spinner MAME.
Something like this for each of the 5 games:
if "%1" == "spinaste" cd ..\mame105optspin
if "%1" == "spinaste" mame105optspin asteroid
But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels. No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1. I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.
Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?
Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot. What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?
Thanks,
-Jason
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Howdy-
Well, I got these 5 games set up. They're awesome. There were a few hiccups & one final detail that I can't iron out.
I'm using MaLa & I created 5 new dummy roms called spintime, spin aste, spingyru, spingalg, & spingalx. This way, I can keep the original games & have the original & the hack next to each other in my game list & let the user select which version to play.
I have MaLa set to launch a .bat file instead of MAME, so I can incorporate multiple MAMEs in my list & Daphne games too. See SGT's awesome thread in the MaLa forum for more info.
Hiccups: if you have this MAME executable to run the spin versions in the same folder & using the same ROMs as the MAME executable that runs the normal versions, they'll fight over the .ini file. I ran the spinner version, set the analog control to Mouse 6 (my spinner of choice on my cab for these games...), played, then ran the non-spinner version. When I went to re-run the spinner version of the game, the .ini file had been rewritten & the mouse had defaulted back to Mouse 1.
So, I put the new spinner MAME into another folder & made another set of ROMs there & folders for ini, config, & artwork.
Still, when I launched the files from the bat, it was using the "main" set of ROMs, not the alternate set.
I had to create 2 separate command line commands in my bat file to first change the directory to spinner MAME directory, and *then* launch the spinner MAME.
Something like this for each of the 5 games:
if "%1" == "spinaste" cd ..\mame105optspin
if "%1" == "spinaste" mame105optspin asteroid
But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels. No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1. I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.
Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?
Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot. What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?
Thanks,
-Jason
Damn dude... I don't really have an answer for you, but you sure are tinkering away! It might just be easier to build another cab with a spinner only. ;) Thats what I did.
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Damn dude... I don't really have an answer for you, but you sure are tinkering away! It might just be easier to build another cab with a spinner only. ;) Thats what I did.
Ack, no more cabs for me!!! It's already been 1.5 years & counting on my current end-all-be-all of cabs!
Thanks for sharing the cool hack--Gyruss & Time Pilot certainly are keen w/ a spinner. :]
-J
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Awesome thread and thanks a lot for posting up all of this info (and the hack)!! This just solved one nagging problem I've had w/ Gyruss for a long time... playing it with an 8-way joystick worked, but the game lost quite a bit of it's 'fluidity' and it wasn't nearly as enjoyable.
I was just getting ready to start a thread on Gyruss and the Ultimarc U360 joystick, but I'm glad I searched first and I totally agree the spinner is the best (i.e. should have been the original) control for Gyruss...
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This is a real dilemma for the purist in me....................
Gyruss with a spinner is obviously the way God intended it, but, IT IS NOT "CORRECT."
So, I am torn whether or not to set it up this way on my cab.
Of course, it's my cab and I can do whatever the heck I want with it etc, but like I said I am a purist at heart and this presents a dilemma.
FYI, I have already resolved to accept playing SW/ESB with an analog flight stick. So exceptions can be made :)
Eric.
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Why not just run both? That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended ;D
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Why not just run both? That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended ;D
A weak day for me on these is not getting past stage 16 or stage 5, respectively.... although I am waiting for these to be in Misfitmame, and then I'll check 'em out.
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Why not just run both? That way, on your "weak" days, you can play it as god intended, and on your "purist" days, you can play it as the cheap-bastard-companies-who-didn't-want-to-invest-in-a-spinner-on-every-arcade-cab intended ;D
A weak day for me on these is not getting past stage 16 or stage 5, respectively.... although I am waiting for these to be in Misfitmame, and then I'll check 'em out.
speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project? The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best). Is that the norm for updates?
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speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project? The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best). Is that the norm for updates?
I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.
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speaking of misfitMAME - what is the release schedule like on that project? The website I found (misfitmame.mameworld.net) shows a release about every 6 months (at best). Is that the norm for updates?
I don't think it's predictable. Robbbert at Mameworld/MESS forums handles this, and I think he's much more involved in MESS. He did manage to get the DK foundry edition in, though.
Understood. Thanks for the reply!
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Figured out this problem, thanks to Tafoid: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=91023.msg957371#msg957371
Pre-107 MAME needs a different flavor of artwork file for the bezel to work. I found pre-107 Asteroids, Gyruss, & Time Pilot here:
http://mirrors.xmission.com/mame/artwork/
http://www.hellspark.com/dm/mame/software/mame/artwork/?C=N;O=D
Still looking for pre-107 artwork for Galaga (and Phoenix, though that's unrelated to this discussion).
Interestingly, I already had pre-107 artwork for Galaxian & Time Pilot, but not the post-107 artwork for those 2--gotta find those 2 now...
Long story short: looking for pre-107 Galaga & Phoenix, and looking for post-107 Time Pilot (which, oddly, isn't on http://mrdo.mameworld.info/mame_artwork_ingame.html?p=13#here ... is the bezel no longer supported since 107?).
Thanks,
-Jason
But, there's 1 bit that I can't yet figure out: bezels. No bezels are displaying for these games, even though they have a bezel file in the "artwork" folder in the spinner mame directory & the .ini file for spinner MAME has use_bezels 1. I also copied all the non-zipped files in the artwork directory, thinking that those might be necessary masks or something, but no luck.
Any idea how to get my bezels back for the spinner MAME?
Also annoying is that 2 of these 5 games that run on my "normal" MAME no longer show their bezels when I launch them: Galaxian & Time Pilot. What would cause the bezels to no longer show in MAME115?
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Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...
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Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls.
Agreed--that's why I have *both* the originals & the hacks on my cabinet! :D
-Jason
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Cool hack, but I prefer the original controls. Now if only I had a stick that would properly play Time Pilot and sinistar though...
To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.
Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.
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To me, the proper controls for Time Pilot/Gyruss is a spinner. Just makes sense. The game isn't properly geared for someone using a spinner and it's much easier, but I think it's much more intuitive.
Star Castle is another game that could use a spinner.
If you (or somebody) is going to run with this, then we could come up with a pretty big list. Essentially anything with the left/right rotate buttons would be fun to try in spinner mode too.
Off the top of my head:
Armor...Attack!
Rip Off
Space War
Asteroids Deluxe
Gravitar
Space Duel
Eliminator
Sinistar? You'd need a Thrust button added...
And, since Galaga & Galaxian were in the first hack, you could also add a bajillion move-left/right-across-the-bottom-and-shoot-the-stuff-coming-down-at-you games:
Space Invaders
Phoenix
Pleiades
etc etc etc
:D
-Jason
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I think Sinistar would need extra hacking for that. Plus, I think Sinistar is not only 49-way, but incremental from center to finish, in which case, you'd be missin out on that part using a digital control. But, hey, maybe a Space Navigator would be perfect there?
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Hi
I'm a newbe here and I just finish to built my cab, so Is there someone can explain to me what i have exactly to do for this modification work...
thank's Gino
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To the above poster
read this
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71845.0
can someone repost the diff file? I keep getting an error when I try to download...
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I am unable to download the diff either. Please, can someone re-upload the diff file for this?
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:cheers:
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weirdness - i still get an error:
+0dzFMYC.TXT.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.
i'll try later with ie - maybe a firefox issue?
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bump
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any chance this could be added to the repository?
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Genius! Now make an auto fire option and Gyruss will be perfect!
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Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.
Its Perfect the way it was designed.
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Taking the Skill out of the game does not make it Perfect.
Its Perfect the way it was designed.
Changing the way it was designed doesn't necessarily take the skill out of it. Besides, some of us play games for fun - not for a challenge.
Why you being such a drag?
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For me, a game that has little to no challenge is not very fun at all.
(Try you hand at "Leprechaun" for more than 10min and see how fun it is)
Im not trying to be a "Drag" .. But it ticks me off when someone says that
a game would be "Perfect" if you took away the 90% of the challenge.
Gyruss has two main areas of challenge:
1) Limited speed of craft
You need to time your moves carefully, else no matter what happens you
will not be able to escape a fatal blow. Also, since the craft moves a little
slow... you often get impatient, and try something dangerous or are reckless.
If you can zoom around like Tempest, then its nearly impossible for the
baddies to nail you, because their shots are timed slow to your ships slow
movement speed. Basically, its like you racing a 3 yr old. Theres no competition,
unless you are so reckless and lazy, that you allow him to catch up and beat you.
2) Timing of Shots
Your craft has a limited fire rate... and so you must time your shots
well in order to survive long. That rate can be fast, if you successively hit
targets... however, this is a little dangerous, as they can bomb you too.
If you add autofire, all you have to do is spin the dial. If you are that lazy/skill-less,
and have no desire to have any deep interaction with a game.... why even play?
Just have someone else play and watch them... or go watch a movie / TV.
When a game is kicking your butt, its more rewarding when you get far with it.
If a game is childishly easy, and you can play forever and ever without much
difficulty at all, there is little value / joy from playing & defeating it.
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I agree with you, Xiaou2. Example: I absolutely hate Galaga with the fast shoot hack. It removes almost ALL of the challenge.
(2019 edit - I play Galaga with fast shoot more than regular now. :lol )
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I disagree with both of you.
People have different degrees of skill. So, your 90% might make the game playable for others. While you may think a game is too easy, I think it makes the game playable. I have fun playing it, and I can assure you that it fits well with my skill level. I'm sure you might be able to play it for hours and be bored - so this hack isn't good for you. I wouldn't even play the game without the spinner control. With Mame, we have to make decisions we were never afforded in the arcade. Do we allow pause, unlimited credits, and save states? Some people feels this ruins the arcade experience.
I love defender and I'm not very good at it. I don't mind controls that are a bit on the complicated side. I prefer time pilot and gyruss with a spinner. Thats all.
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Agreed - so can ya upload it to the repository?? >:D
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Strike that - download works now in thread. Thanks!
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Hi - newbie here - been lurking for a while.
Know this is an OLD POST, but Gyruss is one of my favourites.
Lots of arguments about #original# controls from purists.
In my youth (1980's) the version of Gyruss in our Arcade only had the DIAL - and it worked a dream !
I cannot get on with it any other way.
This was back in the UK, before moving to Canada. Perhaps the spec's were different ?
Was looking for a cabinet here on ebay - but they all have the joystick - so thats how I ended up on this site - will have to build myself one !
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Got any pics? I've never heard of an arcade version using it.
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Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.
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it was most likely Tempest :dunno
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Yeah I call shenanigans on this. Physically, the hardware does not support analog control, unless they installed some digital --> analog conversion PLUS have the ROMS re-written on the board...
But if you insist that's what you remember, it was most likely a bootleg.
Did the mame devs ever support trackballs in track-n-field? At some point, there was a conversion from buttons to a trackball and it was a much better experience in my opinion. It's questionable on where the trackballs even came from or how they worked.
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Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route. Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.
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Yeah I think later versions of T&F were converted to trackball, but I've never heard of Gyruss going down this route. Been googling all morning about it, and haven't found anything.
I want your job. I'm betting you see a lot of posts in Google of me saying Gyruss should've been made with a spinner in mind? heh.
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Most people want my job. ;)
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And as we know in the case of analog controls games, where an optical control is used instead is not satisfactory. Hence, being confined to the original 'pace' when using a spinner would be hell.
Point taken...might be OK for games with quick movement. Not so good with Space Invaders.
I think thats the point isnt it? Space Invaders is a slow game... But, so is Gyruss, and Time Pilot.
Nothing moves that fast in any of those games. In fact, thats the point of Space Invaders. Its so painfully slow, that the actual challenge, is not to lose patience and get reckless with too many close-call moments. Gyruss & TP are the same type of game. A game more of patience -vs- risky actions... that you cant undo, due to your lower speed limitations.
Tempest however, while seemingly not that fast, requires non-stop firing to clear the line-walls, just to be able
to hit the enemy. And because of that, you need to be able to move very fast. Not only that, but the enemies dont fly past you. If they make it to the end of the tunnel.. your almost always destroyed. Gyruss is more lazy. Its more about learning the enemy bullet drop timing and patterns... and taking the risks, or playing it safe.
Star Trek, has a limit on its Turn ratio. You cant just spin so fast that you make a solid ball.
Same for racing games like Turbo... where you can steer, but not spin out in place. Even as Turbo has a fast steering movement... its not 1 to 1 ratio. Its in the garage now, so Ill just guess that Its more like 1 complete wheel turn, to
2" of steering... or a 2 to 1 ratio. Where as the TP demo shows a higher ratio in the opposite direction:
1 wheel turn = 15 on screen spins... or a 1 to 15 ratio.
Which leads me to a slight change in my opinion...
IF you limit the turn ratio to be more in sync with the real movement speed.. then it may be ok.
For example, in Time Pilot, you shouldnt be able to do 'in place' 360s. Spinning should equate much closer to the games original speed, when a joysticks being held down.
Once you stop spinning, it stops the 'button depress'. A certain level of dead zone may be needed, for changing directions, as well as being able to maintain a straight line. Which could be programmed in so that only after a certain amount of spin, would then start the movement process. (sensitivity?) Stops would be immediate however.
Another thing that might be done, would be to speed up the enemies. Such as in the Speedup hack in MsPaman. As that would up the difficulty, making a better match to your increased (but not over the top) spinner speeds.
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Hmmm... As someone who doesn't typically compile code... is there an option for an .exe download for this mod? I'd love to play Gyruss and Time Pilot on my new spinner bartop. When I set the four directions on MAME I get a strange behavior where it moves 180 degrees, then stops, then moves if I spin the opposite direction.
Not a newbie, but don't typically compile code.
--Brad
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Very interesting hack, too bad that is not straight usable in latest mame.
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sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?
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sorry for the newbie question, but how do i go about adding the diff.txt file in mame?
follow the instructions in the tutorial to compile MAME:
http://forum.attractmode.org/index.php?topic=348.30
later
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i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?
I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!
My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm (http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm)
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Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.
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i gave it a try but unfortunately it's a bit above my skill set... :dunno
Would someone be so kind to do it for me and other not so tech savvy people?
I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it!
My goal is to get my Ultimarc Spintrack working with Gyruss
http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm (http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm)
I'm not sure I even have a copy of the fully compiled version of Mame that allows spinner control for Gyruss and Time Pilot. Let me take a look.
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Gyruss is one of the great classic games. I wish people would stop trying to wreck it.
It's a great game either way. The native rate of travel is fast enough such that a spinner makes it only a little easier.
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Big thanks to bratwurst who shared his copy of spinmame. I'm pretty sure this is the same copy I was using. I tested and it's working as expected.
Send me a PM if you want a copy of it.
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it works brilliantly
got to stage 9 on my first try >:D
many many thanks!
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thanks to lew for getting to try this out.
i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.
however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.
so for beginners, this is a good way to train.
later
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thanks to lew for getting to try this out.
i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.
however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.
so for beginners, this is a good way to train.
later
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For me, it makes the games much more playable, but since the game is designed to work with a joystick (for some reason), the game was designed to be not as difficult as they would have made it if you had analog controls. To me those games make more sense with a spinner.
It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.
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It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)
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It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)
Oh yeah! Goes without saying.
Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, it’s like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because it’s meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...
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Gyruss and Time Pilot controllers seem weird when you think laterally rather than circularly. A little re-programming and off to the races. Or at least in Gyruss you could stay in the lower third of the screen....
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It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif)
Oh yeah! Goes without saying.
Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, it’s like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because it’s meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...
Except it’s not different strokes. It’s just plain wrong.
The original designer didn’t intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. It’s apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You don’t get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-o’clock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-o’clock. If you are truly familiar with the game you’d know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.
Let’s not construe this more than it is. It’s a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as “it’s better with spinner” is just ridiculous. It’s like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldn’t have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
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i wonder if anyone got good at the crystal castles joystick version, which came after
the original trackball.
i tried the emulated version, and did ok, but it made it harder.
marble madness had a trackball, and the plan was for marble madness 2 to use joysticks.
but that didn't pan out.
some games feel more natural with certain controllers, others, the limitations of them,
can complement the game.
later
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Except it’s not different strokes. It’s just plain wrong.
The original designer didn’t intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. It’s apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You don’t get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-o’clock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-o’clock. If you are truly familiar with the game you’d know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.
Let’s not construe this more than it is. It’s a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as “it’s better with spinner” is just ridiculous. It’s like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldn’t have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.
Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.
We had a version of Track'n'field with trackballs at our local bowling alley. That was a total blast and I really pumped some quarters into it. To me, that's a good example where controls were switched and it made a different, and some would say, better experience.
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I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.
Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.
time pilot was designed by the same guy that did gyruss.
i don't feel like anythings missing out when playing that game with a joystick.
same with time pilot 84 which also used a joystick. but that was a much harder game.
later
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Set the spinner sensitivity to match the rate of the movement in the original.
Time Pilot '84 has peculiar elements that constrain flight patterns, especially in later levels. However, the game is not in Spinmame.
Marble Madness is fine with a trackball, and finer with a joystick. Fast run areas are easier with a stick with sensitivity of analog directions set to 100.
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Sorry to dig up this ancient post :angel:
But since I am just now in the situation of building a spinner MAME cab I'd linke to ask if someone could share his "spinner mame version" with me for playing Gyruss and Time Pilot with it ? Would be highly appreciated. :notworthy:
Thank you.
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Sorry to dig up this ancient post :angel:
But since I am just now in the situation of building a spinner MAME cab I'd linke to ask if someone could share his "spinner mame version" with me for playing Gyruss and Time Pilot with it ? Would be highly appreciated. :notworthy:
Thank you.
PM Sent!
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Is there new source for recent mame available ? I would like to integrate this diff into groovymame.
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Nope!
I run a couple different versions of mame to play the different games that work differently on different versions of Mame.
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Hi there! Sorry for getting to the party late, but I would love to get a copy of this modified spinmame you guys have compiled here. I don't have the knowhow to do it myself, and I just finished modified a Tempest Legacy cab from A1up, and wanted to pack it full of any and every spinner/trackball game I can find. I only to find out recently that there aren't actually that many :'(
Time Pilot is a fantastic game, and watching it in action using a spinner is a thing of beauty.
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Big thanks to bratwurst who shared his copy of spinmame. I'm pretty sure this is the same copy I was using. I tested and it's working as expected.
Send me a PM if you want a copy of it.
can someone send me a copy of spinmame already compiled please?
I tried to send a PM but the forum doesnt allow me to send private messages.
It is my dream to play gyruss with a spinner.
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I tried to send a PM but the forum doesnt allow me to send private messages.
Now that your first post has been approved, your PM system is active. :cheers:
Scott
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It is my dream to play gyruss with a spinner.
We need more people like you around! I sent you the download link via instant messenger.
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have not been around this forum for a while and a google search brought me back here.
So what brought me here? Something similar but for a different game. I have a retropie system to play retro games (along with mame on the PC like most civilized fans eheh). One game that drives me nuts and is outright unplayable is Front line because of its use of a digital rotary instead of a standard spinner. Would there be a way to modify its control so that we could play the game and remap the arm movement to an analog spinner, which on a control pad could be the L or R buttons or Left Trigger / Right trigger? Games like Tron are superbly playable by mapping them to a controller via the L/R buttons. nothing beats a spinner but at least in letting us map that control to those two buttons, it's playable. Front line without, is not playable at all on a control pad
anyway just a thought
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One game that drives me nuts and is outright unplayable is Front line because of its use of a digital rotary instead of a standard spinner. Would there be a way to modify its control so that we could play the game and remap the arm movement to an analog spinner, which on a control pad could be the L or R buttons or Left Trigger / Right trigger? Games like Tron are superbly playable by mapping them to a controller via the L/R buttons. nothing beats a spinner but at least in letting us map that control to those two buttons, it's playable. Front line without, is not playable at all on a control pad
Front Line is one of six games that use a "Taito Aim-n-Fire" style controller:
- Front Line
- The Tin Star
- Wild Western
- Sheriff (Nintendo)
- Bandido (Exidy -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)
- Western Gun Part II (Taito -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)
(https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/images/f/fd/Taito_aafb.jpg) (https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/images/f/fc/Taito_aafs.jpg)
The "Aim-n-Fire" acts like a top-fire 8-way joystick where a cardinal direction (U/D/L/R) or diagonal is always pressed. It is used to . . . aim and fire. :lol
- On a twin-stick cab (think Robotron), you can map the right stick to both the aim inputs and the fire input.
- You should be able to do the same with a gamepad that has twin thumbsticks. :cheers:
Another option is the rotary joystick from GRS. They are available as a stick you can install on your cab or as a fightstick.
With the right settings in MAME, the appropriate mode selected, and the correct handle installed, this stick works like these specialized controllers:
- Mechanical rotary joystick
- Optical rotary joystick
- Taito Aim-n-Fire
- Atari Twist-to-Turn joystick (Xybots)
- Push/Pull spinner
Front Line gameplay shown from 49:20 - 56:23.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6AypcJU3L0
Scott
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Thanks for the detailed response. I tried mapping the second stick a la robotron but it doesn't seem to work for me at all. Perhaps it's because of the mame version used on the raspberry pi. I'll have to double check on my windows pc to see if I can map it to the second stick .
The video is a nice glimpse of how it plays using the proper controls. Hopefully I can find a way for it to play using a control pad. I still think having a spinmame "hack" would serve better but let's see if I can figure out a way to map as you suggest.
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I tried mapping the second stick a la robotron but it doesn't seem to work for me at all. Perhaps it's because of the mame version used on the raspberry pi. I'll have to double check on my windows pc to see if I can map it to the second stick .
The problem could be that the gamepad's thumbsticks are in analog mode instead of digital mode.
- When my knockoff USB PlayStation2 controller is in digital mode, the left thumbstick shows up as four D-pad directions and the right thumbstick shows up as four button presses.
Scott
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I see; I'm not certain how the retropie setup can see the sticks as digital. I'll have to read on it. The gamepad I'm using is a nintendo switch pro controller, possibly n0t possible with it