The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Bender on April 03, 2008, 09:16:38 am
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I was able to convert a U360 to a top fire and then the Idea hit me, why not try to make it rotary too.
I'll have to modify my top fire design too, because it's based on the shaft NOT spinning
but I think I have an idea for that
I saw this hack for a regular joystick
http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/index.htm (http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/index.htm)
I was thinking I could do something similar by adding a rotary pot to the bottom of the shaft and attaching the magnet to the bottom of that.
also the shaft for the bat type stick is wider than the ball top one and would be easier to hollow out, but has a much larger thread on top. does anyone know if there are ball tops available to fit that thread?
any one know where to buy rotary pots/encoders?
like the one in this mouse
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=98402;image)
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The bat-top shaft is the same diameter as the ball-top except the visible part.
Thats an unusual mouse, never seen one with that type of self-contained encoder before. Is it an old one?
Andy
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If that didn't work, maybe you could mark the magnet and point an encoder at it somehow, like on a sidelong post. You'd have to cover up the LED in the ultrastick though.
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Cool link Bender. Thanks.
Cornchip.
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...any one know where to buy rotary pots/encoders?
like the one in this mouse....
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=GH3071-ND
resolution might be a bit lower then the one from the old ms mouse though
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Hi Andy,
I ment the top thread where the bat or ball top screw on
the thread on the ball top is rather small and would make that shaft harder to hollow out, also the brass insert in the balltop goes quite far up not leaving much room on top for a button, that's why I was wondering if anybody made ball tops with the larger thread from the bat shaft, That's all
I really love that stick and think it is the most versitle product available!
I hope you don't mine us playing with your awsome product :)
just can't help messing around
Bender
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Yeah!!!!
after a very long search I was able to find this very small optical encoder that I think I can get to fit a 9mm U360 shaft, I'll just need a slightly longer shaft
anyone know there to get a longer shaft(Bottom part) that will fit the U360
http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/ (http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/)
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=98544;image)
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This is not the best option since its not a self-contained unit. You would need to find a way to locate the stationary part a fixed distance from the optical wheel, at all times. I cant think of a way.
A better option might be the Avago HEDR542X series.
But you would still need to prevent the outer part from turning while still allowing it to move with the stick. Not an easy task.
Andy
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This is not the best option since its not a self-contained unit. You would need to find a way to locate the stationary part a fixed distance from the optical wheel, at all times. I cant think of a way.
A better option might be the Avago HEDR542X series.
But you would still need to prevent the outer part from turning while still allowing it to move with the stick. Not an easy task.
Andy
Andy,
not sure what you mean by a self contained unit?
it seems like a self contained unit to me
it seems almost mechanically identical to the Avago HEDR542X, what's the difference?
I'm probably missing something really obvious
you just slide the E4P over the shaft
you do need to have a non-spinning part to attach it to
one thing I like about the E4P is that is available in different resoultions, so for example you could get either a 180 or a 360 both of which are divisable by 8 and 12 so you can get an exact match to rotary games that have 8 or 12 positions
the vago HEDR542X is only available with a 200 resolution, only evenly divisable by 8, not by 12 although thats a pretty minor thing
so I'm doing what has already been done with other rotary sticks by using a fixed pin and a collar to go around it, it's used in both happs (mechanical and optical) and the SNK, like this Ikari stick:
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=98631;image)
U360 with us-digial encoder and fix position pin
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=98633;image)
I've already got the rotary part working (played both Ikari, and 50 calibre last night without a hitch, even worked as spinner in tron and passable in tempest (I did have to adjust the sensitivity for each game in Mame)
but I'm still working on incorporating the top fire
as I said I got that to work earlier but had to do by preventing the shaft from spinning so that obviously that won't work here, but I'm workin' on it
thanks for the input,
Bender
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You are my hero!!
I would love to make this mod, and I could do most of it, but for the metal fabrication of the slotted plate.
If anyone cares to make a parts kit for this mod I would purchase the first four.
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Looks good!
How are you maintaining the gap between the optical disk and the PCB with the sensor?
Andy
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Looks good!
How are you maintaining the gap between the optical disk and the PCB with the sensor?
Andy
(http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/graphics/e4p.gif)
the top half of the encoder housing (the bottom two pieces in the diagram above) is attached to the metal collar, the optical disk is press-fit onto an extension of the joystick shaft, then the bottom part of the housing (top piece in diagram) clips onto the top with the optical wheel in the center.
The optical disc is reflective with black lines printed on it so there is only a sensor on the top, you don't actually need the bottom part of the housing except to keep stuff out
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Andy... you're taking notes right? Get these into production and I'll definitely make the switch to U360R's! I want to add rotary joysticks, but I also want to get some digital controllers like your U360. This mod is a marriage made in heaven....
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Andy... you're taking notes right? Get these into production and I'll definitely make the switch to U360R's! I want to add rotary joysticks, but I also want to get some digital controllers like your U360. This mod is a marriage made in heaven....
Amen.
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This is certainly creeping up the priority list. I have a couple of other products in development which are taking up 110% of available time at the moment but I will get onto this.
Thanks to Bender for considerably shortening the R&D time!
To productionize this would mean getting new chrome-plated shafts made but this is not a great issue since we already have replacement longer shafts being produced so this is just a variant.
The U-shaped brackets were expensive to tool-up so we would need to think about which way to do this, possibly spacers would avoid new tooling.
Either the fixed pillar or the flat slotted plate or both would need to be made from nylon or some plastic as metal-metal contact here would not be good.
Andy
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Andy,
I'm so glad to help!
I was just doing this to see if it could be done for a small bartop I have in mind.
It was supposed to be a "one of" hack that maybe someone could replicate, so I wasn't originally worried about it from a manufacturing stand point, but I love a challenge, and it would be great for the community if you could just buy one, and since Andy seems interested,
lets see if we can do it.
Bender
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Awesome!
Yes please do these. Although I already own two U360's bat tops. Hopefully when(and I mean when not if) these come out there will be an upgrade kit option instead of having to buy the whole new joystick. By the way, will this "mod" interfere with the octagonal restrictor? And when are we getting lighted bat/ball top u360's? Hopefully that can be implemented with this mod as well. Like I mentioned in another thread, I just need rotary and lighted joystick for the u360 and it will be the ultimate joystick ever and will be completely set for my arcade.
:applaud:
EDIT:
I just test twisted my two U360 then the TT2 spinner and the U360's don't feel anything nearly as smooth as the TT2's. That might be a problem... :'(
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EDIT:
I just test twisted my two U360 then the TT2 spinner and the U360's don't feel anything nearly as smooth as the TT2's. That might be a problem... :'(
But the TT2 is intended for spinning and has bearings, so you wouldn't expect a joystick not designed to spin to be as smooth surely?!?
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EDIT:
I just test twisted my two U360 then the TT2 spinner and the U360's don't feel anything nearly as smooth as the TT2's. That might be a problem... :'(
This will not be a spinner, it will be a rotary joystick. Completely different animal...
Adding top-fire and illumination would be even more difficult as the handle must be able to rotate. Not sure if this will be possible.
Andy
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Well hopefully it is implementable with both if not, can you at least make a second u360 that does have bat/ball top illumination without rotary function? The lighted joystick option is one I truly need for my arcade that heavily outweighs the need for a rotary joystick. I'm sure both are implementable but would require higher end calibrated parts that would cost even more to manufacture.
Well at least get me lighted u360 joysticks. (http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/9619/hoperz2.gif)
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EDIT:
I just test twisted my two U360 then the TT2 spinner and the U360's don't feel anything nearly as smooth as the TT2's. That might be a problem... :'(
This will not be a spinner, it will be a rotary joystick. Completely different animal...
Adding top-fire and illumination would be even more difficult as the handle must be able to rotate. Not sure if this will be possible.
Andy
Amen, this a rotary joystick NOT a true spinner all I was saying was that it is possible, as it would be with any optical rotary joystick, to play spinner games, but of course it is not going to spin anywhere near as fast or feel the same
I do think the top fire is possible, and maybe even the illumination, but very difficult
One thing at a time though I think is the best way to approach it(my priorities are rotary, then top fire, then illumination)
I have to take a break from this for a little while to get some work done and wait for some parts, but in a week or so I should have some new Pics!
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To be specific you press fit the encoder? Did you drill the shaft for it? In fact did you shorten the shaft or extend the pcb? and did you epoxy the slide plate and magnet to the plastic case?
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To be specific you press fit the encoder? Did you drill the shaft for it? In fact did you shorten the shaft or extend the PCB? and did you epoxy the slide plate and magnet to the plastic case?
the encoder it's self is press fit but the housing has to be secured and the height of the PCB is extended
I've been trying some slight variations on how to do this and when I come up with the best one I'll post it with detail and pics
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Are you going to recommend sticking with the e4p units? If so i am going to order a couple to start looking at.
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Are you going to recommend sticking with the e4p units? If so i am going to order a couple to start looking at.
yes, BUT!!!!!
they make them for different size shafts and I am leaning toward 6mm right now, I started with .250in.
Even though that is a very small difference it is significant to the design
long story short, if you can hold off a little while I wouldn't want you to have to buy them twice, they're pretty expensive little suckers
:D good news though, I found a couple of parts that are key and made a couple of breakthroughs this weekend and think I'm getting pretty close to a final design for all three versions
U360 rotary mod
U360 top fire/LED mod
U360 rotary top fire/LED mod
It is taking a little bit longer because originally I wasn't concerned about being able to use the restrictors, but I realized that some people really like them so I want to make them so you can use them, and of course that makes things more challenging
The one thing I could use some help with is machining the shafts
I don't have a way to do this accurately (my drill press just doesn't cut it)
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OK any body out there that can mill a JLF joystick shaft with a hole drilled through and some other small alterations
I am at the point where I really need a clean precise job and it is not something I can do myself. I'm more than happy to pay for the service
Thanks so much!
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My drill press is likely in the same state as yours. How big of a hole in the 6mm shaft are we talking? End to end and a bit longer than the standard shaft? Would it be easier to start with stainless tube stock and die and tool it?
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OK any body out there that can mill a JLF joystick shaft with a hole drilled through and some other small alterations
We can try to get this done but it might be something of a challenge drilling a hole right through. I guess the shaft needs to be longer to accomodate the optical wheel. We can easily get these made as we already get the original ones made and chrome plated. Starting with a tube might be the way to go, for a hollow version.
Guess the wires for top fire/illumination need to emerge somewhere..
Andy
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OK any body out there that can mill a JLF joystick shaft with a hole drilled through and some other small alterations
I am at the point where I really need a clean precise job and it is not something I can do myself. I'm more than happy to pay for the service
Thanks so much!
I have a few stainless steel JLF shafts with 3mm holes ready to go. I can do any other modifications too if you like.
The only issue I can see is that because these are stainless scratch made shafts they are not magnetic like the standard plated steel ones and so if you are using them with a U360 then the magnet wont stick. (Although isnt the U360 a modified JLW and not a JLF?)
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OK any body out there that can mill a JLF joystick shaft with a hole drilled through and some other small alterations
I am at the point where I really need a clean precise job and it is not something I can do myself. I'm more than happy to pay for the service
Thanks so much!
I have a few stainless steel JLF shafts with 3mm holes ready to go. I can do any other modifications too if you like.
The only issue I can see is that because these are stainless scratch made shafts they are not magnetic like the standard plated steel ones and so if you are using them with a U360 then the magnet wont stick. (Although isnt the U360 a modified JLW and not a JLF?)
Hi Franco B, (I was kinda hoping you'd see this) ;)
Your right I meant JLW
there are two things I'd like to try
If I get you detailed drawings would you be willing to make a couple of each?(actually one you could probably just modify)
could you make them out of something magnetic? it doesn't have to be pretty, this is for a prototype
if not that's ok I can epoxy the magnet on, again it's for a prototype
I know your extremely busy, with the custom cocktail (I check that thread out all the time, truly amazing work) so I really do appreciate any help you could offer on this project
Thanks,
Bender
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No problemo bud. :)
I can make you some mild steel ones if you like, they will be magnetic. We should have some bright bar, ill go see what we have.
Yeah if you want to PM or email me a drawing Ill have a look.
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Franco B,
You Rock!
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!!
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Does anybody know of a good source for small 5v LED's?
I'm making some progress and getting ready to test some of this out and I ned some LED's
I'd like to try a couple different colors and only need a like 4 of each
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I have a load of 13,000MCD Ultrabright blues and some 8,000MCD RGBs that I got off ebay, I can find the sellers for you if you like?
They are really cheap but seem decent quality, they work out to something like 10p (20c) each including resistors.
If you want I could pop a few in the post for you to try? I have some resistors suitable for 5v too.
You can use the RGB ones and just cut off the other colour legs that you don't need for single colour LEDs.
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If you use a rgb you will need a 4 conductor plug. If you want a rgb and a top fire can you get away with a combined ground?
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What are you using to control the LED's? Ultimarc's pac drive or GGG's led wiz?
Franco,
thanks so much for the offer, it's much appreciated
Seems like GGG has different single colored ones for .49 apiece
I think I'll grab a few from them to test out
I have a 3 conductor plug, I don't see why I couldn't share the ground between the button and the LED,
but I'm no electrician, so I could be wrong
Getting those to work together and fit in the ball top
That's a whole another issue I think it can be done, but it will take sacrificing a 2nd ball top
speaking of that does anyone know where to get a brass insert that will fit the JLW shaft?
I think I'll have to drill out the old one to get the a button in there
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Yeah you would need a four conductor plug for RGB, so far I have only used one of the colour annodes and the cathode in each shaft for a red, green or blue shaft.
You may struggle to fit four LED legs and wires down the bore but it may just about be possible. I countersink my shafts at 60 degrees almost to the thread diameter to give a little more room to get the legs in.
For RGB and a top fire wouldnt you need a 5 conductor plug (if there is such thing) even with a single ground? (Red, Blue, Green, 'Fire' and ground)
Im no electritian either but I wouldnt have thought you would have been able to share the grounds between the encoder and the LED ground seeing as the encoders dont handle much current?
As for LED controllers im using three LED Wiz's and a Pac Drive.
If you are just driving LEDs I would recommend the LED Wiz as you can control the 48 levels of intensity (needed for fading lights etc). The Pac Drive only works as On/Off.
However if you want to run 12v (or even other higher voltages with an external power source) you will need a Pac Drive as the LED Wiz only handles 5v devices.
The LED Wiz is more expensive than the Pac Drive but it has double the number of outputs (32 vs 16). If you only wanted to use a few LEDs/outputs and wanted to keep the cost down you could use the GGG LED Wiz+GP which is basically a 16 port LED/device controller combined with a 16 input encoder.
What are the brass inserts you are talking about? If you stuggle to find some im sure some could be made ;)
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I am testing with an LED wiz. Only way to go, I will most likely have 4 of them because each only will handle only 10 RGBs.
I was thinking about a wacky idea, using the steel shaft as the ground. It would save a wire. Anyone think I'm nuts?
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I am testing with an LED wiz. Only way to go, I will most likely have 4 of them because each only will handle only 10 RGBs.
I was thinking about a wacky idea, using the steel shaft as the ground. It would save a wire. Anyone think I'm nuts?
As long as all the other leads are insulated with no exposed connections that could touch the shaft, you'll be fine. It's a good idea considering your limited wiring conduit.
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Good thinking Batman :)
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I am testing with an LED wiz. Only way to go, I will most likely have 4 of them because each only will handle only 10 RGBs.
I was thinking about a wacky idea, using the steel shaft as the ground. It would save a wire. Anyone think I'm nuts?
Good thinking Batman :)
that's just what I was going to say
This is already way more complicated than the top- rotary I started with.
So I'm going to stick with the one color LED or I'll never get this thing done
But you never know, that is a great solution Stub!
there is still the rotary connection on the bottom to solve with that approach
although I have seen some 2 and 3 lead bi-color LED's around, How does that work?
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Ok I Got some LED's From GGG
They came really quickly!
but now I want to know if there is an easy way to test them without hooking up the led wiz and the computer, can I just hook them up to a battery?
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Now come Bender, you know they will work, you don't need to test them ;) You just want to look at the pretty lights :)
From looking at the GGG site those LEDs need between 3.0-3.5v. You should be able to connect two 1.5v AA batterys together to power one.
If the LED doesnt light, reverse the polarity. Dont worry, you cant damage the LED etc as the diode stops the juice from flowing the wrong way. One of the LED 'legs' should be shorter than the other, thats the negative (there may also be a flat on the LED body next to the negative)
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I cannot seem to find any 4 conductor socket plugs that could actually fit inside the shaft with terminals. Nor can I find a molded one that would work.
My thought is to friction fit the male portion of the plug in the stick. If I am going to do that why dont I use a 6 conductor 3.5mm instead? The socket is large at 12mm wide at its widest point, and 15.6mm deep, but on this would make a nice mounting surface. See attached
With it stacking up and the pcb moving back further I still this we are in range of its tolerance of what it can programatically correct.
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I cannot seem to find any 4 conductor socket plugs that could actually fit inside the shaft with terminals. Nor can I find a molded one that would work.
Cant the stick itself not function as a conductor?
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It can, but I am wondering if I can go all the way and install 3way leds and a topfire. The tricolor to go with my 32 3way buttons.
Also it would remove any odd things happening as people handle the switch ground. If there were for instance a little bit of stray charge on someone this is connected to the ground for all the components. And they use the ground a the reference to the circuit.
I may be worrying over nothing, but I want to try to do it more professional.
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Now come Bender, you know they will work, you don't need to test them ;) You just want to look at the pretty lights :)
AHHHHHHHH The PRettty Prettty lights!!!!!
I do love the pretty lights
Thanks, Guys
I hooked em up to 2 AA bateries and it worked great
Good news Pic of the top fire and LED version very SOON!
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hi Franco,
I'm doing my LED by your tutorial on Reroblast
all is well except the ball top
What diameter drill bit do you use to drill through the insert 5mm? and how deep do you past that? is it important for it to be just the added length of the led of is it ok if there is a little air above the led?
Thanks
Bender
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Hi buddy, sorry for the late response, I haven't been on since yesterday.
Do you mean that the nuts in your ball tops have a solid end and you need to drill it out?
My ball tops were hollow but I had to drill some closed ones out for someone else. A 5mm bit will be fine. It doesnt matter if you drill a few millimeters past the solid end. In fact, it may help as when I made my shafts I made the threaded section a couple of mm short as other wise the ball top would not have screwed on all the way as the LED would have bottomed out in the ball. If you are using your stock shafts they will be 1.5mm longer so by drilling a little deeper it will give you a little more clearance for the LED to sit in.
Also, as the guide says don't forget to remove the shoulder from the LED otherwise it wont fit down the thread.
I don't know how you are holding your balls (ooo-er!) but make sure you don't damage them when you clamp them. I used a V vice with some rubber to protect my balls. ( :laugh2:)
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Yeah I'm real careful with my balls too!!!! ;)
something about putting my balls in a vice just isn't right no matter what the context :laugh2:
no really thanks for the Info!!
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I have been eagerly been awaiting the end result of this mod. Any new info on it?
The LED mod would be nice but I am just drooling over the added rotary capabilty.
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I think I pretty much have it sussed for adding a four pole jack/plug for RGB LED (could also be used for single LED + topfire). Im going to order some parts tomorrow for a couple of prototypes.
Bender is your man as regards to the rotary function.
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Sorry for the hold up on this I've been swamped with work this summer and It doesn't look like I'll get back to it till September
the 3 things that you need to do are:
1. extend the shaft by about a 1/2 an inch at either 1/4 inch or 6mm and get the us digital encoder to fit that shaft extention
2.create a post and slot pieces to let the joystick spin, but not the encoder
3. extend the base so the PCB fits over the the extended shaft (this is much easier if you use a restrictor because the full through distance increases if you don't and you'll need a larger diameter magnet)
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Why the extension? So you have room for the plate and encoder? I had been playing with finding a way to add the encoder without extending the shaft. I think it is very workable.
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yes for the plate and the encoder
I'd love to know what you came up with
If you aren't lengthening the shaft you must be removing some of the existing part, no?
by the way I have completed the top fire and the Light up (one color LED) mods
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Andy, I'm not really concerned about top fire but I'd sure love to have a U360 with rotary. That was the one thing that kept me from buying two for my cab. :applaud:
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I know what the difference is, my design is completely in the way of the restrictor plate. I was up in the air on using one, i ordered a octagional to test and it does not fit correctly. I will have to drill out the holes some. After that it killed some of my interest in the plate.
What I cant figure out is a durable design for both a plug for topfire and using an optical encoder like you have.
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Andy i will buy rotary u360 when they come out for sure with or with top fire.
In the mean time does anyone know of a good rotary joystick for heavy barrel, xybots and such?
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So, I have been watching this thread very closely. Any news from you Bender or Andy?
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So, I have been watching this thread very closely. Any news from you Bender or Andy?
Like I said I have the top fire and the rotary (separate sticks) working but this project and tutorial are on hold for a while till I finish building my current project "Benderama" (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84113.0)
I want to use this in that project so it will be a priority once I finish the build
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Franco, any chance of you putting the led in a U360 back into production?
I think I pretty much have it sussed for adding a four pole jack/plug for RGB LED (could also be used for single LED + topfire). Im going to order some parts tomorrow for a couple of prototypes.
Bender is your man as regards to the rotary function.
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Im still interested in buying :)
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I'd be interested in buying as well! :cheers:
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So, I have been watching this thread very closely. Any news from you Bender or Andy?
Like I said I have the top fire and the rotary (separate sticks) working but this project and tutorial are on hold for a while till I finish building my current project "Benderama" (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84113.0)
I want to use this in that project so it will be a priority once I finish the build
Hi Bender :) would you mind telling me what kind of encoder you used for the rotary mod? I'm trying to make some DIY rotaries myself.. at this point I dont care if they're mechanical or optical. If I go optical I'm hoping to add some sort of mechanical detent that can be engaged or disengaged depending on the game. :P
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the 7th post in this thread has a link to the encoder I'm using
let us know how it goes
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Thanks Bender :) I guess I skimmed right by it.
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So, I have been watching this thread very closely. Any news from you Bender or Andy?
Like I said I have the top fire and the rotary (separate sticks) working but this project and tutorial are on hold for a while till I finish building my current project "Benderama" (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=84113.0)
I want to use this in that project so it will be a priority once I finish the build
With Benderama now out in the wild, any chance we can see a tutorial on how you built that U360 rotary? :notworthy:
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yeah, my next step is to try to get both features into one stick!!!!!
It's been a while since I messed with it hopefully I remember where I was
I'll have to do a little better documenting this time :)
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AndyWarne,
With the U360, can the electronics currently sense the direction the magnetic field is running (where "north" and "south" are) as well as where the magnet is? I was just thinking if the U360 could tell where north and south are (like a compass), then you could use electronics to sense the spinning of the shaft. If it currently can't, what about adding a some HMC1501's or HMC1512's to measure the angle of the magnetic field? This could give a way of sensing the shaft spinning without having to add an encoder wheel to the shaft and the optical sensor.
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AndyWarne,
With the U360, can the electronics currently sense the direction the magnetic field is running (where "north" and "south" are) as well as where the magnet is? I was just thinking if the U360 could tell where north and south are (like a compass), then you could use electronics to sense the spinning of the shaft. If it currently can't, what about adding a some HMC1501's or HMC1512's to measure the angle of the magnetic field? This could give a way of sensing the shaft spinning without having to add an encoder wheel to the shaft and the optical sensor.
No. If you think about it, if this were the case, the joystick position would go all over the place if you rotated the handle.
Andy
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Is it possible (or plausible) to have a non-magnetic strip in the middle, effectively separating two half-discs each magnetic, and have the software discern between the two?
Perhaps Bender's mod would be easier and more sensible to adopt?
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I think Bender may have something to show you fairly soon ;) wink ;)
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Thread has been bookmarked.
I seriously want this bad.
still need to get cash together to build by arcade machine tho but i havn't given up, being a student doesn't help.
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That would be SO sweet! The versatility of the U360 (which I do not own yet) plus rotary! Then we'd just need a lightgun solution that actually worked and we would be in arcade heaven :)
EDIT:
Holy Crap! AimTrak? Wow.. a lot has happened since I've been away! :p
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AndyWarne,
With the U360, can the electronics currently sense the direction the magnetic field is running (where "north" and "south" are) as well as where the magnet is? I was just thinking if the U360 could tell where north and south are (like a compass), then you could use electronics to sense the spinning of the shaft. If it currently can't, what about adding a some HMC1501's or HMC1512's to measure the angle of the magnetic field? This could give a way of sensing the shaft spinning without having to add an encoder wheel to the shaft and the optical sensor.
No. If you think about it, if this were the case, the joystick position would go all over the place if you rotated the handle.
Andy
Ok. The current electronics do not sense the direction of the magnetic field just the strength of it to tell where the stick is. What about adding some electronics to sense the direction of the magnetic field? I believe the HMC 1512 can sense 180º of change and then you would also need something to tell when the direction of the magnetic field has reversed (to give the full 360º). The U360 would then be one step closer to the ultimate joystick.
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That would be SO sweet! The versatility of the U360 (which I do not own yet) plus rotary! Then we'd just need a lightgun solution that actually worked and we would be in arcade heaven :)
EDIT:
Holy Crap! AimTrak? Wow.. a lot has happened since I've been away! :p
Ha ha! I completely thought you was having a dig then! :D
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My thoughts:
The current magnet is polarized axially. That gives an even magnetic field in each direction. If you used a magnet that is polarized perpendicular to the shaft and the sensor, you could use several components to measure field direction, but as you rotate it the density of the magnetic field would vary (stronger field near the poles). this would cause problems with the field intensity sensor for direction. I am not sure if it could be overcome via some complicated processing based on the relationship of the two types of sensors, but I would estimate it would be difficult at the least.
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That would be SO sweet! The versatility of the U360 (which I do not own yet) plus rotary! Then we'd just need a lightgun solution that actually worked and we would be in arcade heaven :)
EDIT:
Holy Crap! AimTrak? Wow.. a lot has happened since I've been away! :p
Ha ha! I completely thought you was having a dig then! :D
haha.. no, I just haven't been here in a while. I'm glad to see that someone is finally working on something for lightgun lovers like myself. I still have my doubts about, Topgun/wiimote style tracking but I hope to be proven wrong! :)
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any update on the U360 with rotary function? Since the other projects for Andy are out (Aim Track) is this what he is working on now...
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any update on the U360 with rotary function? Since the other projects for Andy are out (Aim Track) is this what he is working on now...
Yeah, I would love that too. I don't care much about having top fire with it, but rotary on top of all other modes would be fantastic. I'm very curious if Andy is working on something new, or taking well deserved break?
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OK kids
Like I said I got the top fire to work and the Rotary on different sticks
my next goal is to get them together
I'll do a tutorial at that point and you can just do the parts you want
Sorry, but it might be a while still, I got a couple other projects to finish up first
Although thanks to franco I'm one HUGE step closer (thanks Bud!)
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Will Franco be cutting his specially machined shafts for a reasonable rate to the public do you think?
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Images!
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Will Franco be cutting his specially machined shafts for a reasonable rate to the public do you think?
I didn't do anything particularly special. If the mod works out to be successful I would be happy to work with Bender and Andy if its something Ultimarc wanted to stock. If that is not possible I could get some production quotes for the shafts if there was interest and Bender was happy with that.
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I am not really into rotary games but would really like to know how to mod a U360 into a top fire. Bender, have you posted somewhere a tutorial on how you did just the top fire?
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Hey, looks like I missed more cool stuff while I was busy with work... Getting wiring up that shaft without impeding rotation is a tuffy. Even the audio jack method I figured out for Christian a few years back wouldn't work, the magnet would have to be too far away from the sensor. Unless you can use a larger magnet that had a farther reach...
And I thought I was going to surprise everyone with my rotary competition sticks!
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sorry I've MIA. I've been without power and the interwebs for four days thanks to a wind storm here in Maine
Will Franco be cutting his specially machined shafts for a reasonable rate to the public do you think?
I didn't do anything particularly special. If the mod works out to be successful I would be happy to work with Bender and Andy if its something Ultimarc wanted to stock. If that is not possible I could get some production quotes for the shafts if there was interest and Bender was happy with that.
I'm just working on this for me and the community so it is certainly OK with me, and think it would be great if Franco and/or Andy wanted to offer any part of this
I am not really into rotary games but would really like to know how to mod a U360 into a top fire. Bender, have you posted somewhere a tutorial on how you did just the top fire?
not yet.... maybe I can get that sooner than later though
Hey, looks like I missed more cool stuff while I was busy with work... Getting wiring up that shaft without impeding rotation is a tuffy. Even the audio jack method I figured out for Christian a few years back wouldn't work, the magnet would have to be too far away from the sensor. Unless you can use a larger magnet that had a farther reach...
And I thought I was going to surprise everyone with my rotary competition sticks!
that is pretty much how we are doing it although with the restrictor the magnet doesn't have to be that much bigger
the audio jack was a brilliant idea by the way! :cheers:
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the audio jack was a brilliant idea by the way! :cheers:
Thanks :)
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any word?
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Excited to hear any updates here as well
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bookmarked. Love to get lighting w/ rotary in my u360s.
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Andy could the Hall Effect sensor that tracks the position of the U360 Joystick be altered to sense rotation of the stick?
Is it possible to use two Hall Effect IC's ?
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Could a black/white rotating color pattern be embedded around the shaft, then a small mounted optical camera could detect rotation speed and direction..
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Andy could the Hall Effect sensor that tracks the position of the U360 Joystick be altered to sense rotation of the stick?
Is it possible to use two Hall Effect IC's ?
Cannot remember if it was in this thread, but I remember Andy answering this exact question with a big no. :-[ Sorry.
As for your other question ... :dunno
Update: After thinking about your above question, I think the problem would be that since the joystick is both rotating, and moving around, the camera would have a REALLY hard time (probably impossibly hard) reading this constantly. (as the camera would be fixed of the PCB).
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Saw this linked from another thread, by bender I think? Bender any chance of pics and/or docs on how you did the rotation? I think I see enough to piece it together...just don't know if I want to take the plunge yet and wing it. :)
Rotary u360s would seriously make my day.
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There is a whole line of us waiting for some docs. :) But even if we did get more info I dont know anywhere to get the shafts machined.
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From reading bender's progress I was under the impression that attaching the e4p to enable rotary would require no machining. I believe the machining was only for lighting which I don't care about as much as the rotary functionality. :)
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True True,
I have had topfire switches on my mind. Wanted to do that for years to my U360s.
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ok I'll try to get some documentation on this this weekend
you do need a special (machined) shaft for the rotary too
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Bump in hopes of getting more info on how the rotary conversion was done. :)
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Hey bender,
Managed to do everything yet?
how about a write up?
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been pretty busy
but I'll try to getter' done over the Holiday break, so by the end of the year hopefully :)
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been pretty busy
but I'll try to getter' done over the Holiday break, so by the end of the year hopefully :)
You could always just take money for pre-orders. It's been proven to work!
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OK here is the Topfire or LED mod http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108490.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=108490.0)
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I take it a product from Ultimarc never came to fruition? If it did, I'd likely dump my two old rotary 8-ways and upgrade to these.
I'll certainly look into the mod. I my case the rotary function is done by a 12-position switch at the bottom of the shaft. But it pretty much looks exactly like the component that was used for Bender's mod. I'm sure I could adapt the design.
I'm also lucky...I've got access to several rapid prototype machines and CAD software...I'm sure I could make any brackets that I needed for the mod.
But of course I'd rather buy the off-the-shelf solution. ;)