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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: BobtheAddict on March 13, 2008, 10:33:20 pm

Title: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 13, 2008, 10:33:20 pm: Hello everyone...

If you haven't already noticed, this is my first post on the forum. Although it may seem I am green to the arcade scene, I built a MAME cab several years ago with the help of BYOC.com. Now that I have the into out of the way, let's get down to business.

Working on my second cab and I am having difficulties with locating a Euro Hinge that will work. I have tried several different hinges "100 degree, Inverted Hinge" with little success. The plan is to have the control panel tint towards me "Hinges in front". I have thought of using alternative hinges like the piano hinge, ECT, but I like the idea of the Euro Hinge.

The issue is that the hinge does not allow the top to fully open, it will only open about 25-30%. Here are some picture to hopefully clarify what I am talking about.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: SavannahLion on March 14, 2008, 12:44:07 am: Quote from: BobtheAddict on March 13, 2008, 10:33:20 pm
The plan is to have the control panel tint towards me "Hinges in front".

You mean to say you're putting hinges on the curved portion of that CP box?
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 02:29:07 am: LOL, sorry about that, I guess I didn't explain my situation correctly.

I have seen numerous examples of mounted hinges on a curved control panels that open 100%. For Example, Mountain's control panel has a curved front.

In my situation, the hinges I have tried only open up to 20-30%. I assume it is because the top lip hangs over about 2.5 - 3 inches.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: IA1NY on March 14, 2008, 07:16:50 am: Welcome Bob...

I think your problem is that Eurostyle hinges aren't meant for the application that you want to use them for. At most, the CP would need to be flush with the edge of the cabinet, not extended out like you want. Your CP is hitting the edge of the cab before it's even close to opening. It sounds like you don't want a hinge knuckle on the outside of your cab. If so, the hinge that you want is something like a automotive door hinge. In other words, your pivot point wants to be outside the cab, not inside. You can get custom hardware like this at custom shops for high dollar, or you can try a Soss hinge. This isn't the intended use for one, but you might find one small enough to fit into your CP without poking through.

Soss hinges are meant for an edge to edge connection, not a edge to face connection like you have, but depending on the size, you might make it work for you. I'll look further today and see if there isn't a better hinge for your purposes. You can get the hinges at www.rockler.com (http://www.rockler.com), www.mcmaster .com (http://www.mcmaster .com) or www.woodcraft.com (http://www.woodcraft.com). They all sell them in several sizes.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 11:30:43 am: Thank you IA1NY for the information. I have taken your suggestion and inquired with the Soss hinge but I don't think it is going to work. As you said in your post, the hinge is not designed for heavy duty uses.

In my case, I am dealing with 3/4 MDF (30"x18") control panel and I am afraid the panel will rip the hinges out.

After additional research, I located another hinge called BLUM Clip Top www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3747 (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3747). This would work for my project if the over hang was 1/2" - 3/4". I think on the way home from work today, I'll stop by a cabinet making company and see if they have anything for my purpose.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: Kaytrim on March 14, 2008, 01:11:47 pm: You should be able to put the hinges on the back panel instead of the front. Then it would be easier to access the underside of the CP top.

TTFN
Kaytrim
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: Dustin Mustangs on March 14, 2008, 01:28:23 pm: I used 3 of those blum 170 series hinges on my cp. They work great and look really trick.

Short version: This hinge will bind and won't work the way you want to either due to the long overhang on the front of your cp in front of where you want it to hinge. Zoom in on the middle drawing in my attachment and imagine a long overhang behind where mine hinges.

Long version: I have my hinges on the rear of my cp and had to clearance the back of the cp where the hinges mount to allow it to open. How my design works, there are full height backs on either side of the cp that extend in towards the actual cabinet and stop about 5 mills short of the side panel (see bottom drawing). These are just to hide the underside of the cp when looking at the cab from behind and carry no actual load from the hinges. They are hard mounted to my cp top just like the sides and the front are and it all hinges up as one unit (although it isn't shown like this in the middle drawing). Then the smaller piece (shown with hidden lines in the middle drawing) is hard mounted to my cab and that is where the cab side of the hinges mount (hinges are not shown). Notice how this piece is shorter then the two side pieces mentioned above to allow the clearance needed to get the top to hinge w/o binding. You can see this in the middle drawing where I show it opening. Kinda confusing, but hopefully the attachment will help you understand what I had to do to get these to work the way I wanted and why they won't work the way you'd need them to. I can post a pic of it completed if you can't tell what's going on from the attachment.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 05:34:11 pm: Kaytrim,

I appreciate your comment!

I thought about placing the hinges on the back, but there is not a lot of room in the back to space the hinges apart. There is going to be a 4-way joystick / four buttons on the left, with a Spinner & three buttons on the right. I measured the distance in between the buttons / from the back and the hinges would be nearly 15" apart. Keep in mind the top is 30".

I was also considering using industrial Velcro, but some how Velcro does not appeal to the project I am working on.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 06:08:10 pm: Dustin,

First, thank you for the visualization, it does help with what I am trying to accomplish. I agree that the Euro hinge is not going to work in my situation. Looks like at this point I don't have a lot of options:

1. Break down and utilize Velcro.

2. Buy a Soss hinge

3. Mount the hinges on the back

4. Get a custom hinge from a furniture factory.

Going to shop around this weekend and see if I can come up with something. Thanks again!
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: Kaytrim on March 14, 2008, 06:23:29 pm: I am guessing that you just want the ability to open up the panel for maintenance. Try these catches (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2294&filter=cabinet%20latch), one in each corner. They will hold the top in place and when you need to open up the top is easily removed and flipped over. If you plan it right you can have a disconnect in the wire so you can move the CP to a better place to work on it.

There is also a flange hinge (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=248&filter=hinge)

Just my 2 cents.

Kaytrim
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 06:41:08 pm: My first control panel was done in a shot gun approach, which I used screws to fix it down to the top. It actually turned out well for being my first cabinet. Once I started my research again, I decided to put some TLC into the cab.

Might be able to use the flange or the Soss hinge. I am going shopping for hinges, wish me luck. I'll try to post tonight what hinge I decided to go with "It depends on how many cold beverages I consume this evening.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: IA1NY on March 14, 2008, 06:59:30 pm: Quote from: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 11:30:43 am
After additional research, I located another hinge called BLUM Clip Top www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3747 (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3747). This would work for my project if the over hang was 1/2" - 3/4". I think on the way home from work today, I'll stop by a cabinet making company and see if they have anything for my purpose.

Bob,

That one's not going to work for you. I've used it before and it's for doors that do NOT extend past the hinge panel, merely cover the edge of the hinge panel. It works great for cabinets and gets the door out of the way of the cabinet, but in your application, you WILL end up with the same problem you have now plus wasted time and money. Later today, I did find some barrel hinges that are easier to install than the Soss hinges, but do the same thinghttp://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=270 (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=270). You will probably get at least 90 degrees out of your CP until it hits the front panel. This hinge is also much simpler to install. You only drill your lumber instead of a router cutout. If you turn your hinge panel into a dimensional lumber panel like poplar or maple, you won't have to worry at all. For that matter, the Soss will work for you too. I was needlessly worrying that there might not be a size that fits in the 3/4" (19mm) depth (thickness) dimension of your CP.

Hope things work for it. Sounds like a cool design.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 09:06:22 pm: IA1NY,

You are correct, the Blum Clip is not going to work. Guess I was just to quick to the gun when I said it would work. I stopped by a cabinet making company and explained my situation and they mentioned that a Soss hinge might due the trick. On the other hand, went to a local place down the street and they said I might run into issue with the Soss Hinge.

I am going to take the control panel down tomorrow morning and see what happens. Will also inquire about the Barrel Hinge but I think it will be a tight fit since I am using 3/4" MDF. I don't mind paying a little extra as long as I can get the look I am shooting for.

I'll update you tomorrow of my findings.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: mountain on March 14, 2008, 10:53:11 pm: Here is a shot of the hinge installed on my cabinet. I purchased it at Home Depot. There are various types of European hinges. I think that this is an overlay type. Your problem may be that you are installing the hinges too far to the outside. I had to place mine 6" from the center or else the top would hit the center of the base before opening fully. The pivot point needs to be as far forward as possible. To give you an idea, you can see my trackball in the picture below. Hope this helps.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=51525.0;attach=97026;image)
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 14, 2008, 11:10:47 pm: Mountain,

Thank you for the explanation, it does shed some light on my issue. I saw you cabinet several month ago and really digged how you curved the front of your cab to match the coin door curve.

I used the similar technique that you used with making a template and fastening the board around the jig. Have to say it was fairly easy to do. So I have to give you props for your explanation. You could say that I have been grabbing idea's here and there to come up with a control panel that will stand out. I hope you are OK that I used your technique to build the curve and also the hinges. "I sent you a PM last week regarding the hinge you used, but I guess I sent it to the wrong member".

Perhaps my control panel curve is a bit extreme compared to yours. This might be the issue why I am running into. As I need a smoke and a cold beer, I am going to go out to my garage and check and see if placing the hinges closer with rectify my issue.

I'll post back later tonight and see if that did the trick.

Thanks again everyone for all the bright idea's.

Cheers,

BobTheAddict
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: mountain on March 14, 2008, 11:38:33 pm: Using techniques learned from others is what makes this forum so special. My whole cabinet is cobbed together with ideas learned from others. I really like your control panel and think it will be great when you get it completed.

I did get your PM. You just caught me at a bad time. I seam to have a problem with replying to PMs if I have a lot going on at the moment. I had a flurry of PMs from several members and vendors last week as I am preparing my next build.

I think you will find that what i mentioned earlier is your problem. I battled the same issue for a few evenings trying to find a balance between distancing the hinges close enough for the top to clear but yet far enough apart to keep it from having too much wobble.

Keep us posted!
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: IA1NY on March 15, 2008, 02:40:45 pm: That's a great idea Mountain. I like the backward (from normal) mounting you did. Thanks for the pict. I haven't thought about mounting them that way.

I was just on the Blum site, and they seemed to have a hinge that can be used as a single "on a small panel". You might check that out. Find out if your CP can be included in that. Put it on the apex of your curve and you're in like Flynn.

www.blum.com (http://www.blum.com)
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 15, 2008, 07:55:40 pm: Here is the latest update on mounting a Euro Hinge with a over hang. I took Mountains advice and mark the center of the control panel. From the center, I went roughly 6.5" from left to right and drilled the holes for the hinge.

Tried a dry run with a piece of scrap wood "my control panel template" and it looks like it is going to work. The front of the control panel rubs very slightly, so I am thinking of routering out a 1/16" groove to make it clear the over hang.

I'll post some picks tonight of mounting the hinge and hopefully the groove I routed.

BobThe Addict
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: IA1NY on March 15, 2008, 08:51:55 pm: Great solution!

Incidently, what is the curve of your control panel? Either radius, or curve height from chord.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 15, 2008, 09:44:18 pm: IA1NY,

That is a great question man, I'll see if I can can get the radius tomorrow morning. When I started to design the curve, I found an old water bucket laying around the house and used that to draw out the arch.

Here are some pictures I took during the process.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 17, 2008, 10:23:04 pm: Update:

Well after several hours and building a jig to mount the hinges, I finally got it working. Because there is two inch over hang on the front of the control panel, I ended up routing a 1/8" groove that allows the top to open 95% of the way.

I will post a couple of pictures tomorrow to show you the final result.
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: mountain on March 17, 2008, 10:31:16 pm: Great! Glad to see you got it working. :cheers:
Title: Re: European Hinges for Odd Control Panel
Post by: BobtheAddict on March 18, 2008, 09:34:07 pm: I finally got around to taking some pictures of how I modified the top to work with the Euro Hinge.

Thanks again for the suggestions...

Now it's time to have a cold one.

Cheers