Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: ArtsNFartsNCrafts on February 15, 2008, 05:33:45 pm
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Just curious! And of course, if you can explain your answer/reasoning, that's welcomed.
My polls seem to generate quite a bit of commotion. let's see how rowdy this one can get?!
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I abstain from voting ;)
I think I'm going to keep it in the case, but remove the side panel. This way, everything is nice and secure, but breathable.
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Not a huge issue as long as the cabinet itself has good ventilation, as the casing fans should take care of cooling. However, depending on the design necessities of your cabinet it may require de-shelling. If you have many loose cables in there though or potential falling items, a de-shelled PC has no protection.
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Depends on the cab and what motherboard you're using I guess.
If I was using an older motherboard with lower end components, I might opt to leave the case off. Same goes for if I have space constraints. The stupid Z's I got would be a good one. The Z's have no access to the lower compartment without cutting holes in the back.
If I was experiencing EMF problems, the board goes into a case. Or some sort of cage. EMF problems tend to be a pain in the ass to figure out. Haven't constructed/modified enough cabs to know if EMF interference is a big issue or not.
Boards that require cooling for the secondary chips and employ passive cooling (as opposed to fans or otherwise) for those chips would go in the case to ensure reliability and prevent overheating. I can't afford to drop current high end boards just to play MAME so I haven't done anything of the sort yet.
If the design of the cab seems to indicate that a person might drop something sharp or rather heavy onto the boards, probably a good idea to put it in a case. Better a cheap $40 case get dented than lose a bunch of tiny components or a smash a hard drive to a dropped arcade part.
edit samshaw946 beat me to it.
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There's actually good reason to keep it in the case. Good PC cases are designed not just to house the components but to actually create the correct air flow around the components. Without the case most of the fans are not pulling and pushing air in the right places to create the correct cooling flow.
A good case is actually better than no case at all. However, that said a cheap PC case is not always designed well enough to do that job properly. So it could be argued that no case is better than a cheap case, and a good case is actually the best solution.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Depends on the cab and what motherboard you're using I guess.
If I was using an older motherboard with lower end components, I might opt to leave the case off. Same goes for if I have space constraints. The stupid Z's I got would be a good one. The Z's have no access to the lower compartment without cutting holes in the back.
Does your Z have a coin door? My case fit in fine through the coin door hole. It's just a standard atx case.
I voted to leave it in the case. You never know when you're going to need to pull the whole thing out for an addition or repair.
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From last month's thread on the topic:
FWIW, I mount everything on a wood panel so I can pull the entire unit, almost as if it were a PCB boardset.
The caveat there, however, is that I typically build my MAME machines wired JAMMA so I can swap the PC components out for a JAMMA board (or vice versa) I recently did this with my Vertical Classic MAME, replacing the PC with a vertical JAMMA classics board and am going to drop the PC rig into a JAMMA-wired cabinet for a Vertical Trackball MAME.
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A couple of months ago I was messing around inside my cab and grounded out the circuit board on the 120gig HD in my cab...everything would have been lost (all my mame roms, tones of mp3's for the juke, and every console rom) not to mention all the configuration files, the daphne stuff, etc.... I felt sick...Sooooo I searched around on the web and found a seller on ebay that sells exact replacement circuit boards for all different HD models. I got lucky enough to find one with the same revision and firmware numbers and was able to save everything. This xmas I got a 500 gig HD and ghosted everything over to that and removed the 120gig to keep as a backup...
Moral to my story: If you've had your cab for years and put tons of work into collecting everything on it and getting it just the way you want, it's well worth the investment in another HD to back it all up. Think of how much your time is worth if you billed yourself for all the work.
And this is why I keep my computers inside their cases whenever possible.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=75814.msg787309#msg787309
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I went nekkid with my PC because I pieced it together myself, buying the motherboard, cpu, graphics card, PSU, separately . Didn't want to shell out another $50 on a case that I wouldn't see.
I haven't had any EMF interference issues that I know of; but a case could help reduce fan noise... My graphics card fan is a noisy little bugger.
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I haven't had any EMF interference issues that I know of; but a case could help reduce fan noise... My graphics card fan is a noisy little bugger.
Most real arcade machines are noisier than that.... Just that you don't notice it in an arcade with all the other noise going on.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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I keep mine in the case. Cooling is one reason (and I keep sides on to minimize fan noise). Leaving the original centipede board/wiring/components alone is another (I built a little shelf to put the computer on). Plus I took of the case's feet and bolted it down so it's secure.
Another reason: one day it will be re-purposed. It's actually my most powerful machine :o so one day it will become my desktop.
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I keep mine in the case, reason 1. the case is made for cooling. 2. If I need to work on the system I can just pull it out
dm
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For those who cite cooling as a reason for keeping a computer cased, have you monitored the component temperatures in both the cased / decased scenarios ?
Honest question -- I did this once and found that decased ran cooler. But that was one machine with a small (crappy) case and no real high-heat components other than the main CPU.
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I keep mine out of the case, mounted to the side of the cabinet. Mainly for "psychological" reasons.
Notice that keeping the PC in an opened case may be the worst option. The case creates pockets of hot air around the components that wouldn't exist if they were mounted to the side of the cabinet. Keeping the case opened hinds the programmed flux of air that would remove this pockets of hot air.
@CheffoJeffo: I have once monitored the temperature in my old case (nice sized but cheap full ATX case). It run cooler with the case closed. I also experimented with auxiliary fans and noticed that they are much more efficient when sucking hot air out of the case (positioned right under the PSU) than when blowing cold air (as "cold" as air gets in Rio anyway) into it (positioned low on the front, under the drive bay).
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For those who cite cooling as a reason for keeping a computer cased, have you monitored the component temperatures in both the cased / decased scenarios ?
Honest question -- I did this once and found that decased ran cooler. But that was one machine with a small (crappy) case and no real high-heat components other than the main CPU.
Indeed I have..... and as I said in my post above: A good case is actually better than no case at all. However, that said a cheap PC case is not always designed well enough to do that job properly. So it could be argued that no case is better than a cheap case, and a good case is actually the best solution.
Which it would seem is exactly what you found there.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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The cooling argument is moot considering that the CASED PC is sitting inside the cabinet sucking the same temperature air from within the cabinet inside the case... there's no "cooling benefit" from leaving it open thereby exposing the innards to the same ambient temperature that would be sucked in to the PC case had the case been there.
NOW, if you mounted the PC case so as the intake fans were sucking air from the outside of the cabinet, that is a different story.
You can actually produce the same "cooling" effect with a cab than you can with a PC case...simply install an intake and an exhaust. I'd recommend an intake at the bottom blowing toward the exposed PC and an exhaust on top of the cabinet exhausting warm air that has risen from the PC area and monitor area up and out the top.
My horizontal cab has a PC case inside with the sides off it. My vertical cab has the PC mounted directly to a piece of plywood...same with my cocktail.
NOW, there is an argument in regards to EMF....
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EDIT: FrizzleFried stole my thunder a bit in the previous post... :)
I haven't done any 'scientific' testing of this myself, but I'm not convinced that putting an enclosed computer case inside another enclosure (a cab) would run cooler than mounting the components exposed with good ventilation... especially if the cabinet fans were strategically placed.
I know some have concluded that a closed case ran cooler than exposed components. But, how was the testing done? Were you actually doing this testing inside an arcade cabinet? Did the cabinet itself have fans? If yes, were the fans placed in such a way that they would be conducive to effective cooling of the exposed components?
I'm just saying I can see how different conclusions could be reached depending upon how the testing was performed.
I'm personally leaning toward mounting the components exposed in the cab itself, but I definitely do see merit in mounting them in a case for protection. Although the additional cost implications of purchasing a quality case that would provide adequate ventilation are also a factor for me.
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Have people really had problems resulting from poor cooling with EITHER configuration? It seems to me we're a little more worried about it than is necessary. I'm not using my case because of some perceived cooling issue, and I do have a cheap case (like $35). I have a "middle of the line" new amd processor and a "middle of the line" new video card (both bought last month), so I wouldn't think my configuration is too far off from a worst case cooling scenario in terms of heat production. But my mobo indicates normal cpu temp and I haven't observed any problems with it.
I just wonder if we're worrying about a non-issue here. Seems like mounting preference is what should drive your decision, not cooling.
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Have people really had problems resulting from poor cooling with EITHER configuration? It seems to me we're a little more worried about it than is necessary. I'm not using my case because of some perceived cooling issue, and I do have a cheap case (like $35). I have a "middle of the line" new amd processor and a "middle of the line" new video card (both bought last month), so I wouldn't think my configuration is too far off from a worst case cooling scenario in terms of heat production. But my mobo indicates normal cpu temp and I haven't observed any problems with it.
I just wonder if we're worrying about a non-issue here. Seems like mounting preference is what should drive your decision, not cooling.
What drives me is a time savings and ease. Cooling is important, saving time is important.
Whats the point of mounting it inside the cab without it's case? Authenticity? Your using a computer - it's not going to be authentic no matter what you do.
Half of the cabs I've built required me to de-case the computer, but whenever I'm given an opportunity to use the computer in it's case I take it.
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The cooling argument is moot considering that the CASED PC is sitting inside the cabinet sucking the same temperature air from within the cabinet inside the case... there's no "cooling benefit" from leaving it open thereby exposing the innards to the same ambient temperature that would be sucked in to the PC case had the case been there.
Some cases have fans strategically placed to make sure all the components have a flow of air that passes by them to cool them. Obviously you want that air as cool as possible, but the temperature of the air isn't the only thing to consider.
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My Cocktail = no case
My Upright = case
I'll use the case whenever I can.
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Mine is in the case and here's why:
- I only paid $30 for it including the 450 watt power supply (included). It would have cost me more to buy the power supply alone. (my main reason)
- Easier to work on. I can pull it out when needed.
- Case was designed for cooling. Case allowed me to install additional fans.
- Holds the video card nice and snug.
~ DeLuSioNaL
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I will use an analogy as my response:
Circuit breaker boxes are made to house certain devices made for a certain reason :IE to cut the power when too much current goes through them.
Circuit breakers are designed to fit well in this housing, and the housing is designed to work well with the devices made to fit in them.
It comes down to a mounting issue. And with a computer, it can be more than a mounting issue. (Cooling, EM interference, ground protection, etc, et al).
For anyone out there who has said they "built" their computer, I ask them to show me the lithographic machine they own to make the CPU and other chips in it...
Think of the case as a simple way to mount the computer hardware, as the hardware is designed to be mounted in such a way. Also, If the MB dies, you have an easy way to "remount" it if you keep the case. Otherwise, you need to reinvent the wheel again just to replace a part...
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The cooling argument is moot considering that the CASED PC is sitting inside the cabinet sucking the same temperature air from within the cabinet inside the case... there's no "cooling benefit" from leaving it open thereby exposing the innards to the same ambient temperature that would be sucked in to the PC case had the case been there.
NOW, if you mounted the PC case so as the intake fans were sucking air from the outside of the cabinet, that is a different story.
You can actually produce the same "cooling" effect with a cab than you can with a PC case...simply install an intake and an exhaust. I'd recommend an intake at the bottom blowing toward the exposed PC and an exhaust on top of the cabinet exhausting warm air that has risen from the PC area and monitor area up and out the top.
My horizontal cab has a PC case inside with the sides off it. My vertical cab has the PC mounted directly to a piece of plywood...same with my cocktail.
NOW, there is an argument in regards to EMF....
absolutely. for me the intake is just below the CPU and the single exhaust fan is up higher. it also helps draw air past the decased monitor. of course another reason im decased is that its a cocktail...