The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: elsie on February 09, 2008, 07:08:28 pm
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I just started putting some real effort into designing my control panel today, and started out like most of the CPs with Player 1 on the left, Trackball in the middle, and Player 2 on the right. But the more I think about this, the less sense it makes to me. There are only a limited number of games which use the trackball (granted, Centipede is one of them). Also, in my case, there are only a limited number of times I would be playing simultaneous 2 player games (i.e. fighters).
So what makes the most sense to me is to have Player 1 in the middle, Player 2 on the right, and the trackball on the left like in the attached picture. This way, when playing a singe player joystick game (or alternating 2 player), you can stand in the middle. Granted, when playing fighters, the two players would stand closer to each other, but it doesn't seem like they would be closer than in the original arcade versions.
What do you guys think? Am I totally missing something here?
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have fun constantly bumping elbows with any two player simultaneous game...
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two words: Esthetic's or Aesthetic's
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Heck, I'd put my joystick in the middle if I didn't have two of 'em.
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My trackball is in the middle because it provides separation between P1 and P2, aesthetically it helps make both sides of the CP mirror each other in a way, the trackball games I will be playing will be best played with the trackball right in the middle, and it makes it easier to install the trackball so it's oriented properly. (Since you won't have to worry about buttons on the side of your CP interfering with the trackball case/mount).
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Aesthetics are not the only reason... Having it in the middle allows you to have a centered perspective for games like bowling and golf -- games where you're trying to align your shot with what's displayed on the screen. Harder to do if you're off to one side.
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If you put the trackball at the left, then it's convenient for your left hand. . . But if you put it in the center, then you can get both hands on the ball and spin heck out of it -- the only proper technique for Marble Madness. ;)
Also, putting it in the center means the joystick stations are further apart, so you aren't bumping shoulder-to-shoulder with your partner (Gauntlet) or opponent (fighting games).
I decided to leave a trackball off my CP, but I'm going to put a spinner in that center-front location instead.
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There's no law against placing your trackball to the side but it's not the most effective place. Most CP's have only one trackball so even if you play a two player game, you'll have to take turns. The best spot for any control will be the center because you have the best view. It's the same reason why you'd want to sit in the middle of the cinema. Since there is only one trackbal there will be nobody to rub shoulders with when you're playing so the middle would be ideal. There are lots of two player-two joystick based games. You'd want to stand as far from you opponent as possible so you're not hit by elbows or shoulders. Even though it's a little less ideal, the joystick's best place is on the left and right of the panel. I'm putting a third 4 way joystick a bit of center so when I play one player games or games where you take turns, I still can have the best view.
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To me, that layout just trades one problem for two... You've centered Player 1, which is nice, but Players 1 and 2 are now too close together, and right handers playing trackball games will be way off to the side of the cab.
Having the ball on the far right side instead of the left might make it a bit better, but still worse than the traditional centered layout.
At least on the far right, you wouldn't have the problem of bumping the stick on golf and bowling games.
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I look at this moron, and I gotta laugh. While I agree MOST examples were pretty out there, the pinball and a couple of the frankenpanel's wer not that bad. Though I would like to comment on a few quotes.
'Function' buttons don't really belong on the main control panel. They take up space, and more importantly obfuscate what should be easy to use and understand controls. If you ever expect anyone other than yourself to actually use your MAME box, simple goes a long way. Hide a wireless keyboard on top or behind a coin door. Or maybe build a NICELY CONCEALED keyboard drawer.
It depends on how important the function buttons are to the maker. While a keyboard is all well and good, if a button is used constantly why would someone want to keep rolling out the keyboard over and over and over again. Still, I do think some people forget the obvious thing. MAME allows for controls on every microswitch, and that includes the arcade sticks. So you don't need as many.
Everybody wants to cover a lot of bases with controls, but sticking every control under the sun on one panel in a big mish-mash looks like trash and is confusing to use. Again, if someone other than you tried to use your MAME machine, would they know what buttons to use for any particular game?
First of all, this is assuming that you live through "everyoneelse". If you are a lover of all said games, and you can actually physically play the games, then with some ingenuity, you can fit almost anything on say the old style C02 panel. Anyone that I know has it figured out fine. I tell them what to use, and they use it. Permanent part of my family got it down fine. Same as using a remote control, a little practice, and you got it fine. No need to have the "BIG NUMBERS" and brain dead icons and that other drivel to help them through. IDIOTS are those kind of people(bad eyes and such barred from what I just said)
I may be a lunatic purist, but console games belong on the living room TV. That's what they're designed to be used on. Why on earth would you build an arcade style cabinet to stand at (or sit on stools hunched over) for console games, instead of kicking back on your couch?
I will tell you why, because certain arcade games have not been emulated yet, or they are slow as piss with our current affordable computers. So in a sense ya moron, I am trying to recreate the arcade experience anyway. Also, I don't care what people say, fighting games are meant to be played standing up and with an arcade stick.
Same goes for your little button arrangement. It is IMPOSSIBLE to play said games without those extra buttons. Like MK Armageddon. Gamepads are gay plain and simple. Save it for the RPG's where you sit for hours at a time.
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Symmetry in common usage generally conveys two primary meanings. The first is an imprecise sense of harmonious or aesthetically-pleasing proportionality and balance; such that it reflects beauty or perfection. The second meaning is a precise and well-defined concept of balance or "patterned self-similarity" that can be demonstrated or proved according to the rules of a formal system: by geometry, through physics or otherwise.
The relationship of symmetry to aesthetics is complex. Certain simple symmetries, and in particular bilateral symmetry, seem to be deeply ingrained in the inherent perception by humans of the likely health or fitness of other living creatures, as can be seen by the simple experiment of distorting one side of the image of an attractive face and asking viewers to rate the attractiveness of the resulting image. Consequently, such symmetries that mimic biology tend to have an innate appeal that in turn drives a powerful tendency to create artifacts with similar symmetry. One only needs to imagine the difficulty in trying to market a highly asymmetrical car or truck to general automotive buyers to understand the power of biologically inspired symmetries such as bilateral symmetry.
Another more subtle appeal of symmetry is that of simplicity, which in turn has an implication of safety, security, and familiarity. A highly symmetrical room, for example, is unavoidably also a room in which anything out of place or potentially threatening can be identified easily and quickly. People who have, for example, grown up in houses full of exact right angles and precisely identical artifacts can find their first experience in staying in a room with no exact right angles and no exactly identical artifacts to be highly disquieting. Symmetry thus can be a source of comfort not only as an indicator of biological health, but also of a safe and well-understood living environment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry#Symmetry_in_other_arts_and_crafts
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So... anyway.... trackball in the middle:
Honestly, it's if hanging a little off-center to the left or right it's not going to cause any major problems. It's when it's hanging out to the extreme left or right that you're forcing yourself to use a specific hand as best, and are leaving yourself a poor view of the action at worst. So while it doesn't have to be dead-centered, it does often end up that way for symmetrical purposes.
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You may not have a 2nd player most of the time, but most of us have built our panels to accomodate as many games as possible and that includes 2-player simultaneous games. Joystick games can easily be 2-player simultaneous and controls need to be spaced apart to accomodate this. Trackball games are typically 1-player (at a time) so it makes sense to have a centered ball where you have the best vantage-point of the screen.
I play joystick games with the joystick in my left hand. I move the trackball using my right hand. Having the trackball in the middle accomodates this as well.
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If you have trackball buttons, do you like them on the left or right?
I just think it seems more natural on the right, but I do think having 3 dedicated buttons is a must because of the natural functions of a mouse. I enjoy using a trackball like that immensely.
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If you have trackball buttons, do you like them on the left or right?
I just think it seems more natural on the right, but I do think having 3 dedicated buttons is a must because of the natural functions of a mouse. I enjoy using a trackball like that immensely.
Another good reason to have a trackball in the middle: You can use the buttons on either side of it
And, as to your second comment, I think dedicated mouse/TB buttons are unnecessary. The minimal amount I need a mouse for my cab, I use joy2key to program a couple of shifted buttons as Left and Right. If people like them on their panel... cool, but it's completely optional.
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One comment I have....
I'm right handed, and my CP has two trackballs.
I have the joysticks on the left as I found I tend to like to pound on the buttons with my right hand.
I have the trackballs on the right of the buttons, as I found I would rather use my right hand for the fine control over the trackball and push buttons with my left hand.
That may have some influence on your CP.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mknight41/mamecab/control_panel.jpg)
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I've got my trackball right in the middle of the my CP with a button on the top left and a button on the top right. The buttons on the top are, of course, the left and right mouse buttons but they are placed in a manner that makes them also appear as normal buttons for the 4-way joystick and my spinner.
Of course, when I go and design my artwork I'll look at it and go "ugggh. What was I thinking", but hey, that just means I'll design another CP. ;D
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One comment I have....
I'm right handed, and my CP has two trackballs.
I have the joysticks on the left as I found I tend to like to pound on the buttons with my right hand.
I have the trackballs on the right of the buttons, as I found I would rather use my right hand for the fine control over the trackball and push buttons with my left hand.
That may have some influence on your CP.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mknight41/mamecab/control_panel.jpg)
...have you found many games that use two trackballs simultaneously? I know that Ataxx is one game...any others?
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...have you found many games that use two trackballs simultaneously? I know that Ataxx is one game...any others?
Marble Madness, Rampart, Atari Football...
About the original topic, you should definitely not have the trackball out to the left like that. TBs are usually played with your right hand, with buttons on the left (Centipede, Missile Command, etc). In addition to that, most joystick games have the buttons on the right. So you are really standing in about the same spot with the trackball in the middle and P1 joystick on the left.
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One comment I have....
I'm right handed, and my CP has two trackballs.
I have the joysticks on the left as I found I tend to like to pound on the buttons with my right hand.
I have the trackballs on the right of the buttons, as I found I would rather use my right hand for the fine control over the trackball and push buttons with my left hand.
That may have some influence on your CP.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mknight41/mamecab/control_panel.jpg)
...have you found many games that use two trackballs simultaneously? I know that Ataxx is one game...any others?
I didn't just put in 3 of them so people could admire my balls you know? :applaud:
As posted, marble madness, rampart, football -- they also double nicely as a replacement for light guns. (It's not *quite* the same but very functional) so it's a great alternative for all the shooter games.
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I don't see a problem with this guy's design. It has a different priority than most panels and thus a different set of requirements. If most of the gaming is single player stick games then having the player 1 stick in the center is making solid use of the centerspace on the CP. He is making primary use comfort more important than symmetry or two player comfort. I think it makes perfect sense given his projected usage of the cab.
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But how do you play Centipede on that design?
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But how do you play Centipede on that design?
Back, and to the left.
Back, and to the left.
Back, and to the left.
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for my cocktail cab, I'm actually going to have one end of the machine dedicated to vertical(sp?) games that use a joystick, and the other end will be dedicated to trackball games. The biggest question people ask me regarding this, is "What if you want to play 2 players on the cocktail game?
Well, I set it not to flip the screen. And I'm a single guy living in a loft. It's primarily a 1 player cab!
Although I do have head-to-head controls along the side of it for games like street fighter and stuff!
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But how do you play Centipede on that design?
Back, and to the left.
Back, and to the left.
Back, and to the left.
Lol nice movie quote reference.
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I heard rampart can be played with 2 joysticks. I hate not having two player mouse for the purpose of having light gun games...and football etc. But man, talk about cluttering. I would defintely have to redesign the panel from scratch if I go that way, and in the end, to what purpose. I guess dual trackballs, are even too out there for me.
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My trackball is in the middle because it provides separation between P1 and P2, aesthetically it helps make both sides of the CP mirror each other in a way, the trackball games I will be playing will be best played with the trackball right in the middle, and it makes it easier to install the trackball so it's oriented properly. (Since you won't have to worry about buttons on the side of your CP interfering with the trackball case/mount).
Word
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...have you found many games that use two trackballs simultaneously? I know that Ataxx is one game...any others?
Marble Madness, Rampart, Atari Football...
Marble Madness is really fun with 2 players, although I always did better than my brother when we played 2 players ;)
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I heard rampart can be played with 2 joysticks. I hate not having two player mouse for the purpose of having light gun games...and football etc. But man, talk about cluttering. I would defintely have to redesign the panel from scratch if I go that way, and in the end, to what purpose. I guess dual trackballs, are even too out there for me.
Sinistar can also be played with a digital joystick. ;D
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I think this should be evidence enough as to why you don't put the trackball off to the side:
Edited to upload pic instead of hotlink.
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Once again, don't hotlink to pictures! Upload them here!
:laugh2:
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I now understand the frequent "aircraft carrier" references. I must be careful designing my cp.
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I think this should be evidence enough as to why you don't put the trackball off to the side:
Hey at least he put it on the right most wing. ;D
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I have a street fighter champ ed. dynamo cab. I wanted to retain the original as much as possible so, I put the trackball in the middle. Just barely fit with the 6 button config. Also putting it in the middle gives the option for friends if they're left or right handed. Can be used either way.
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After reading all of this I might put the trackball underneath the cabinet... that way I can play Centipede swinging the cab around the room.
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I'm gonna put a trackball on the front panel of my dynamo so I can play centipede with my...nevermind. ;D
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I'm gonna put a trackball on the front panel of my dynamo so I can play centipede with my...nevermind. ;D
Dude! Trackballs pinch! :o
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Just build your marquee area low, and extend it out toward the players a ways.
That will let you put the trackball on top of the cab.
Alternately, you could put it in the side of the cab if you bring the sides forward far enough to be comfortable.
Put the three mouse buttons on the other side of the cab, and you're set.
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...have you found many games that use two trackballs simultaneously? I know that Ataxx is one game...any others?
As someone mentioned, they are good for a poor mans lightgun, which is probably what I use them for the most. T2, OpWolf, OpThunder, Space Gun, etc.
One that specifically comes to mind is Cabal. I think the original used two trackballs. My dad loves Cabal, so we play that one a lot when he comes to visit.
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I'm gonna put a trackball on the front panel of my dynamo so I can play centipede with my...nevermind. ;D
Dude! Trackballs pinch! :o
A wiimote and some duct tape...
:laugh2:
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You laugh, but a wii remote would do for alot of these games, if it could ever be interfaced properly....hmmm May not be that far off!
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1. Looks better.
2. More elbow room for two players.
3. left and right-handed play(use P1 or P2 buttons, as preferred by player)
Short Answer: A centered Trackball looks and plays better in every scenario.