Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: StuDaBaker on February 04, 2008, 03:21:59 pm
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Alrighty, after years of drooling at these beautiful mame cabinets I've finally decided to go for it. It was all prompted after I saw a working Devastators cabinet on ebay that was local to me, starting for $0.99. I max bid it at $25.01 and lost the auction by $1.00 after dreaming for a week what I was going to do when I got the cabinet. By the end of the week I was feeling guilty after reading teh article about "mutilators" and was somewhat relieved that I lost the auction this past weekend and decided to build the cabinet myself. I have some woodworking experience, and I've pretty much decided to model mine after Scott's Unicade. At this point, the temptation to start buying up stuff is pretty high, and I am very anxious to get started, but I'm really trying to reign myself back because I'd like to keep from having to:
1. Order the wrong stuff.
2. Having to try to figure controls and wiring while working around a big cabinet.
3. Bite off more than I can chew.
So, I've decided that I am going to first get the pc going with mame and front end and hook up a control panel with it. I've been searching and reading a lot, but haven't really seen a cp set the way I envision it. Here's the rough idea:
Two player control panel
2 eight way joysticks per player (ala Smash TV)
6 buttons per player
1 four way joystick with fire button
1 Spinner
1 trackball w/2 mouse buttons
1 & 2 player start and 1 & 2 player coin
2 flipper buttons (1 each side) (plunger button?)
4 admin buttons
So that's a total of 24 -25 buttons not including joys, spinner and trackball. I was orginally looking at using a minipac, but I'm afraid there may not be enough inputs. Would an Ipac and optipac be a better way to go? I'm sure someone else must have a 2 player dual joystick cp but I have yet to see it. Maybe I've just not stumbled across it yet. Anyway, I want to start buying these controls, but was wondering if this plan is realistic or do I have to compromise something? Thanks for reading and for any advice that can be offered to a mame cab noob like myself.
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Would an Ipac and optipac be a better way to go?
Ipac4 and optipac would be a good route. An IPAC2 wouldnt have enough inputs to handle the buttons, plus the 2 joysticks per player (4 buttons each * 4)
Edit: As long as you are making a franken-panel, maybe you should do the 7 buttons per player thing, for those neogeo games (IE 3 buttons on top, and 4 on bottom, which will allow for the 6 button setup for SF2 type games, and the 4-in-a-row for neogeo)
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Welcome!
The CP you described sounds exactly like the standard ones most people build to me. Knievel builds some great looking ones:
(http://www.knievelkustoms.com/woody4.jpg)
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You can combine some inputs. For example, I know of no games that use 2 joysticks each player and 6 buttons, so you can use the last 2 buttons safely also as two of the 2nd joystick directionals, like the attached pic.
You also don't need the admin buttons if you use a I-pac, just hold down P1 start and use the Joystick for the additional shifted inputs. But, the admin buttons are available as separate inputs on the VE version, if you need/want them.
You can always use a TurboTwist 2 Spinner from GroovyGame gear and attach your standard Arcade Trackball directly to that interface board.
Best,
- Mike -
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You also don't need the admin buttons if you use a I-pac, just hold down P1 start and use the Joystick for the additional shifted inputs.
Not that I am an expert or anything (I am not): But I would recommend having the shift button be a different button than P1 start. The setup I am working on has one "admin" button (IE the shift) with several buttons near it that are wired to other controls. This way, it is clear from looking at the panel that admin stuff is separate from gaming controls. The IPAC will allow you to double up, but the way I see it, having shift as its own button makes more sense than having it as Player 1 start.
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The I-Pac default shift key is P1 start. I'm not certain that is changeable.
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I carry the happ & ultimarc lines here on the forums if you need a quote on any of the items you asking about in your thread send me a pm
dm
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The I-Pac default shift key is P1 start. I'm not certain that is changeable.
That is why I changed MAME to accept a different input as player one start. If I press the default player one start, it still pumps out a "5", but MAME isnt looking for 5 for anything. It would be nice if shift could be changed on the IPAC, but since everything else on the IPAC can be changed, it is a moot thing...
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The I-Pac default shift key is P1 start. I'm not certain that is changeable.
It is. (You would need to re-program it with the WinIpac software, but that's no big deal.)
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You would need to re-program it with the WinIpac software, but that's no big deal.
So, is shift changeable with the WinIpac software, or is it that you can change what input pumps out a "5"? I played around with Winipac a bit but didnt see an option to change shift itself... (Figured I could more easily change the inputs in MAME, instead of messing around with the Minipac I have)
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So, is shift changeable with the WinIpac software, or is it that you can change what input pumps out a "5"?
Yes and yes. (You can change either one).
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Thanks pcb (mike) for the diagram. That's very close to what I was thinking! As for the 7th button, I'll definitely give that some consideration. Looks like an Ipac4 and optipac then is the way to go.
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As for the 7th button, I'll definitely give that some consideration. Looks like an Ipac4 and optipac then is the way to go.
7th button is a good deal if you plan to play NEOGEO games, if not, then dont bother (then again it cant hurt). IPAC4 and optipac is from what I know the best option for you.
A question for you: What sticks are you planning on using? This can be very important when it comes to designing your CP!
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I 'm going with the Happ supers. Not sure about the 4 way trigger though, yet.
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Not sure about the 4 way trigger though, yet.
Are you sure you need a dedicated 4-way? Many of the 8-way's allow you to turn them into 4 ways with little effort. Also, from the franken panels I have seen, added 4 ways are either placed inconveniently or in the way of the more oft used 8-ways...
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By the end of the week I was feeling guilty after reading teh article about "mutilators" and was somewhat relieved that I lost the auction this past weekend and decided to build the cabinet myself.
Excellent!! That's a far better way to go. Look at it this way, when you complete your cab you'll be able to stand back and say "I Did That" with pride and a sense of total achievement.
Thanks for reading and for any advice that can be offered to a mame cab noob like myself.
You were asking about encoders, and which was the best way to go for what you wanted to achieve. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned fully in the thread is the KeyWiz by Groovy Game Gear http://www.groovygamegear.com (http://www.groovygamegear.com) . That has an independent shift function called the Shazaaam Button. Which then takes it away from the actual control buttons that are in use. It would give you the number of inputs you actually need for a panel this size. It also has on the fly programming, so you can set your front end software up to send a new key layout before starting any particular emulator. A very useful function.
Bear in mind that your 4 way stick can be connected in parallel with one of your eight way sticks. This cuts the number of inputs that are actually needed. Also if you go for the TurboTwist 2 spinner, again from Groovy Game Gear (the best piece of kit on the market at any price!), you'll get two other Axis on the encoder that comes with it, that you could connect your trackball to. OR... you could go for the PS2 / USB Electric Ice Trackball that they sell and you'd also get mouse button input connections on that (it's a Betson Trackball as used on Golden Tee Golf and a lot of other machines). You can set those mouse buttons to be used in Mame.
They sell a lot of other funky stuff that you'll fall in love with when you see it as well.
Hope that helps....
I 'm going with the Happ supers. Not sure about the 4 way trigger though, yet.
NOOOOOO!!! Don't touch Happ Supers with a bargepole, they suck bigtime!!! Nearly everybody who buys them ends up changing them out for something else. Happ Competition sticks are way better built, if you must have Happ.
Otherwise look at Sanwa sticks, very good quality. Or UltiMarc U360's which are more expensive but can be programmed from software to behave like a 4 way or an 8 way or a 2 way. They can also behave exactly like an analog flight stick if you want them to. The other advantage they have is that they have an eight button interface built right into them. That would give you even more button options. In fact that would give you 32 buttons from the four sticks without any keyboard interface.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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The one thing I haven't seen mentioned fully in the thread is the KeyWiz by Groovy Game Gear http://www.groovygamegear.com .
You see fozzy, Andy Warne is a GOD, but Randy T is only a cheeseburger inhaling american! And we all know that Americans are worthless tools of the consumer market! (I'm from Maine, which is the only State in Canada, ask anyone from New Brunswick or Quebec! Seriously!)
Anyways, Flip a coin and you will still get what you need.
(Randy, I am only kidding about what I said, so dont spit in my KeyWiz when I order one from you)
(Andy, dont worry, I am kidding about ordering from Randy! I prefer Ultimarc stuff because I am [unlike fozzy] an ultimarc fan!)
(Andy/Randy, ignore the comment I posted to the other)
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(I prefer Ultimarc stuff because I am [unlike fozzy] an ultimarc fan!)
Hey!! I just recommended he buy 4 U360's. :censored: :censored: :dunno
:laugh2:
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Hey!! I just recommended he buy 4 U360's.
OK, I am sure that the god of ultimarc forgives you. THIS TIME!
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Thanks for the advice on the Keywiz and the trackball. I am definately going to research that a little more.
Also I'll look at the 360's if I can find some way to cut some of the other expenses, deciding to build my own cabinet has already put me over budget! 8)
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Thanks for the advice on the Keywiz and the trackball. I am definately going to research that a little more.
Also I'll look at the 360's if I can find some way to cut some of the other expenses, deciding to build my own cabinet has already put me over budget! 8)
Ahhh! BUT! the good thing is that you can take your time...... You don't have to buy everything now. Most cabinets that are built on here are built over a period of a year or more, sometimes even longer than that. There are exceptions where people have thrown a cabinet together in a month, but that's a project that either requires instant large sums of cash or a want it now attitude and large sums of cash....
You'll get much better deals on your parts if take your time and have a patience with it. You will occasionally come across a good deal on e-bay or somebody on here will be offering some parts they don't need and you'll be able to build it within almost any budget.
The rule of thumb... is If you're prepared to wait, you can beg, borrow, steal (well maybee not the last one) although some cheap parts deals are a steal in those terms. You'd be amazed at the stuff people chuck out.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Yeah, I've pretty much decided that I am going to build a prototype control panel, starting with at least 1p controls (2 - 8 ways, 7 player buttons, 1p start, coin, 1 - 4 way joy and maybe a trackball) and get that working with mame before I get crazy and buy up a bunch of stuff that's going to sit around while I figure stuff out. Plus, it'd be easier on the checkbook, as you said.
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I built a control panel with dual joysticks. Two joys for player 1 and two joys for player 2. Assuming that you want to have 7 buttons per player, you will definitely need an i-pac4 to do this which supports 4 players. The joystick on the right of player 1 would be using the 3rd player inputs and the joystick on the right of the player 2 would be using the 4th player inputs. That's how I have mine wired.
However, you may be able to get away with using the ipac2 if you use only 4 buttons per player.
Here's a pic of my control panel I recently finished. Although it's a quad panel, you can see the dual joysticks on it.
Read more here:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=74378.0
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Not sure about the 4 way trigger though, yet.
Are you sure you need a dedicated 4-way? Many of the 8-way's allow you to turn them into 4 ways with little effort. Also, from the franken panels I have seen, added 4 ways are either placed inconveniently or in the way of the more oft used 8-ways...
I used a Super for my 4 way and then purchased a 4 way restictor from GGG:
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=310
It works great!
~ D
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However, you may be able to get away with using the ipac2 if you use only 4 buttons per player.
You don't need to make all the controls have a different input. You'll never use 6 or 7 buttons per player and 2 joysticks per player at the same time. You can use the last 4 button inputs for each player to double as the 2nd joystick per player without any trouble. An Ipac2 or I-pac VE is plenty.
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PCB, good point. The only advantage I would see in making all the connections unique would be that if you are playing SF2 or something and accidentally hit the 2nd joy it wont make your character do something strange. Other than that, I havent heard of any 2 joystick games use many buttons... So doubling up is a good option.
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I actually planned on doubling up on a few things, player 1 - 8 way and 4 way for example and the 2nd joys like you mention.
Nice panel, delusional. It's similar to what I'm after, but without the 3rd and 4th player controls. You have alot more on the sides of the cp than I'm planning as well.
I've been considering the KeyWiz Max for the contol interface, and I think I can get that to do what I need in conjunction with a ps2 happ TB w/3 buttons.
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Sounds like you have it all planned out nicely. Best of luck to you and thanks for your comments on my panel. :)
~ D
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I've been considering the KeyWiz Max for the contol interface, and I think I can get that to do what I need in conjunction with a ps2 happ TB w/3 buttons.
Yes! that should work out perfectly.... Good luck. If you get stuck with anything then the forum is only a click away.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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One last thing! if you're on a budget..... Be careful browsing that Groovy Game Gear place.... It gets very tempting. :cheers: :laugh2:
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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One last thing! if you're on a budget..... Be careful browsing that Groovy Game Gear place.... It gets very tempting. :cheers: :laugh2:
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
Yes! I agree. I bought over $400 worth of stuff in my first shot. And I need to buy more! :) His stuff is great!
~ DeLuSioNaL