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Main => Reviews => Topic started by: fjl on December 02, 2007, 09:28:02 pm

Title: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: fjl on December 02, 2007, 09:28:02 pm

Anyone have it that wants to share their opinions on it? I'm also concerned about how the joystick responds with a restrictor limiting its full movement. Won't it affect it for analog since it will no longer be able to reach and register the farthest points of movement on its matrix?

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: u_rebelscum on December 03, 2007, 02:34:03 pm

Don't have a new restrictor, but...

Quote from: efjayel on December 02, 2007, 09:28:02 pm

I'm also concerned about how the joystick responds with a restrictor limiting its full movement. Won't it affect it for analog since it will no longer be able to reach and register the farthest points of movement on its matrix?

I've used the older restrictors, and as long as you tell ultraMap which restrictor you're using, you'll have full range of 8 bit analog (256 values).  (The ultraMap will update the driver and set the correct calibration.)  And with the u360's internal 14-bit precision, the 8-bit output will be just as smooth.  And the 9x9 grid analog to digital mapping will also be correct.

The difference you do notice will be, of course, that the 256 values are "compressed" into a shorter physical distance, but that's expected.

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: fjl on December 03, 2007, 02:51:45 pm

Is the distance difference really noticeable?

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: Donkey_Kong on December 03, 2007, 02:55:10 pm

Quote from: u_rebelscum on December 03, 2007, 02:34:03 pm

Don't have a new restrictor, but...

Quote from: efjayel on December 02, 2007, 09:28:02 pm

I'm also concerned about how the joystick responds with a restrictor limiting its full movement. Won't it affect it for analog since it will no longer be able to reach and register the farthest points of movement on its matrix?

I've used the older restrictors, and as long as you tell ultraMap which restrictor you're using, you'll have full range of 8 bit analog (256 values).  (The ultraMap will update the driver and set the correct calibration.)  And with the u360's internal 14-bit precision, the 8-bit output will be just as smooth.  And the 9x9 grid analog to digital mapping will also be correct.

The difference you do notice will be, of course, that the 256 values are "compressed" into a shorter physical distance, but that's expected.

Should be called the smart stick  :)

Can't wait to get a monitor for my cab and fire up the 360's again.

Title: Octagonal restrictor?
Post by: Zobeid on March 27, 2008, 05:39:41 pm

There is also an octagonal restrictor available.  Since I would be using it as a 2 or 4 or 8-way stick the large majority of the time, it seems like the octagon could work really well.  I would like to feel where the directions are.

Without a restrictor (and I imagine this would be true with the circular restrictor too), my hand's orientation to the stick tends to "wander" and it's easy to end up pushing diagonal when I thought I was pushing up, down, left or right.  An octagonal restrictor ought to cure that.

I noticed UltiMap lets you configure the stick for no restrictor, a round restrictor, or a square restrictor -- but it doesn't have separate options for whether the square restrictor is turned to 4-way or 8-way position, and there is no option for the octagonal restrictor.  I'm guessing if you had the octagon then you would configure it to circular?

Has anybody tried the octagonal restrictor plates and can report how they work and feel?

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: Stub on March 28, 2008, 10:58:15 am

I have a circular plate to test. I like the hard stop feel to hitting the plate, but it cuts back on the throw range and I'm not partial to it. I put on the 10mm longer shaft and it makes up for a lot of the shortened swing, but I am still on the fence on weather I will install them.

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: Ummon on March 30, 2008, 02:56:50 am

Quote from: u_rebelscum on December 03, 2007, 02:34:03 pm

Don't have a new restrictor, but...

Quote from: efjayel on December 02, 2007, 09:28:02 pm

I'm also concerned about how the joystick responds with a restrictor limiting its full movement. Won't it affect it for analog since it will no longer be able to reach and register the farthest points of movement on its matrix?

I've used the older restrictors, and as long as you tell ultraMap which restrictor you're using, you'll have full range of 8 bit analog (256 values).  (The ultraMap will update the driver and set the correct calibration.)  And with the u360's internal 14-bit precision, the 8-bit output will be just as smooth.  And the 9x9 grid analog to digital mapping will also be correct.

The difference you do notice will be, of course, that the 256 values are "compressed" into a shorter physical distance, but that's expected.

A slight hijack: so in analog mode on games with digital controls, it will actuate right away?

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: Zobeid on March 30, 2008, 07:39:50 pm

Quote from: Ummon on March 30, 2008, 02:56:50 am

[A slight hijack: so in analog mode on games with digital controls, it will actuate right away?

Not sure whether this will answer your question, but here are some things I've observed.

To get good results you must go into UltraMap and configure it to match the restrictor on your stick.  The sticks come with no restrictor, and you might naturally assume that UltraMap defaults to no restrictor.  You would be wrong.   :P

There is a checkbox in UltraMap called "keep analog stick".  When this is checked, then the custom maps don't seem to work.  Then I figured out, this setting would allow the stick to send analog information over USB (which is all I have connected) and simultaneously send digital switch output over the optional encoder harness (which I don't have).

If you are running it in analog mode on games with digital controls, then MAME is responsible for translating the analog values into digital ones.  However, you can't customize that translation, and it may not always be correct, or optimum, for every game.

When using the default 8-way map, the stick is highly sensitive.  By that I mean, the stick registers a move when you push it just a very short way off-center.  I also noticed that I seemed to hit diagonals too easily.  I created a custom map with a larger dead space in the center, and smaller diagonal zones.  It worked well for Crazy Climber.  Your mileage may vary.

I had trouble adapting to the U360 at first, and I blamed the soft spring and long throw.  Then I fixed the restrictor setting in UltraMap and started using the custom maps, and it became much, much better.  It's nice to know the stiffer springs and the restrictors are available as options, but I'm not rushing to get them just yet.

I think the sticks deserve all the praise they've been getting, but the hardware and software are so customizable, they aren't plug-and-play.  It takes time to learn how everything works and get it all configured the way you want.

Title: Re: Can Anyone Review The New U360 8-Way Restrictor?
Post by: u_rebelscum on May 22, 2008, 02:42:43 pm

Quote from: Zobeid on March 30, 2008, 07:39:50 pm

If you are running it in analog mode on games with digital controls, then MAME is responsible for translating the analog values into digital ones.  However, you can't customize that translation, and it may not always be correct, or optimum, for every game.

Just an update to this comment.  Mame now (starting with version 0.117u1) has basically the same remapping features as UltraMap.  Comparison table:

	u360's	mame's
grid	9x9	9x9
default maps
8-way	Yes	Yes
4-way	Yes	Yes
4-way diag	Yes	Yes
2-way	Yes	Yes* (same as 8-way default)
2-way vertical	Yes	Yes* (same as 8-way default)
automatically switch maps	Yes* (needs FE plugins or scripts)	Yes
manually editable maps	Yes	Yes
how maps can be edited	GUI, or edit text (*.um) file	easy text format with weird optional shorthand version, set from ini file or commandline
hardware	only works on u360 joysticks	works on all analog joysticks
translation happens in	within u360 hardware/firmware	within Mame/Mess
emulators	works on any application that wants digital inputs	only works in mame & mess
effected by mame's analog input options: joystick_deadzone & joystick_saturation	No	Yes1
different maps on different sticks at same time	Possible, if set up to do so	No
technical	internal 14-bit2 analog to digital map	8-bit3 to digital map
"sticky" direction option	Yes	Yes

Notes:
¹ _saturation will effectively shrink the grid, much like u360's "restrictor" setting, but able to set to any percentage 100% and below.  _deadzone can make the center squares of each axis increase in size along that axis.
² less than 14-bit is used if a restrictor is in use
³ most analog joysticks, including the u360, send 8-bits per axis; however some send higher resolutions.


Which is better, Mame's or u360's analog to digital method? 
If you're only using mame/mess and like mame's defaults, or are using non-u360 analog joysticks, mame's is great. 
If you're using other emus, or mame version 0.117 and below, or already have the plugins setup, u360's is the way to go. 
Otherwise it's a toss up, IMO.  (I use mame's on my system.)