isn't there a real mod or utility for mame that addresses this exact problem - only with software? Can't think of it right now...it just stops the registering of the diagonals. But nothing can beat a true 4-way; moving from down directly to right is much different than moving from down to sliding through a diagonal which may or may not register, to finally hitting right.
ie if you could use an 8way and just treat it like a 4way and casually try to change directions, and have it do so without diagonal registration fuss, would that be playable to you?Honestly, not really - if you get past the hardware and software problems..there is a 'feel' to a four-way (i own the mspacman reunion stick, BTW) than say, a super or competition. Much different throw range and weight feels.
ie if you could use an 8way and just treat it like a 4way and casually try to change directions, and have it do so without diagonal registration fuss, would that be playable to you?
Besides, I can see your solution for moving from south-->southeast--->east, but what about if the person goes from east---->northwest? how do you know if he 'meant' to go east--->north or east--->west? I use comps and supers and I'm all over the place with those things...no way I could be accurate enough without focusing on it, which would take away from the game playing focus... ;)
That's the problem, space isn't permitting this time! I'm jammed up with 8ways and have no room for 4 ways
I think its a great idea.
I have a Ms. Pacman re-union 4 way and I love it.
But if I could have flipped a switch and played
frogger and Pacman with my existing 8 -way I probably would have went that way. If designing a circuit like this
is something you think you could do, I say go for it.
You can't beat the feel of a dedicated 4-way, but this could turn out to be a good option for a lot of people.
Slug54
they would have to open up the panel, find the switch without disturbing the wiring. etc. FORGET THAT.
/* If joystick is pointing at a diagonal, acknowledge that the player moved
* the joystick by favoring a direction change. This minimizes frustration
* when using a keyboard for input, and maximizes responsiveness.
*
* For example, if you are holding "left" then switch to "up" (where both left
* and up are briefly pressed at the same time), we'll transition immediately
* to "up."
*
* Under the old "sticky" key implentation, "up" wouldn't be triggered until
* left was released.
... code logic ...
/* If we are still pointing at a diagonal, ....
* the player moved the joystick from the idle position directly
* to a diagonal, or from one diagonal directly to an extreme diagonal.
*
* The chances of this happening with a keyboard are slim, but we still need to
* constrain this case.
*
* For now, just resolve randomly.
*/
I'm thinking that it would be a worthwhile software addition to Mame to set up the 4way joystick processing to work like that.
I realize that it wouldn't work quite as well as your circuit: Do I have this right? Windows is doesn't process keyboard key presses quickly enough to detect minute changes (like whether left or up was pressed first when hitting a diagonal).
Well, Druin, looks like I may be the only one on your side. I actually built a digital logic solution and simulated it. Just waiting for my parts to come in to implememnt it. The way mine works is:
The output stays on the last single direction selected. For example, if you are left, then go left/up, the output stays left until left is released.
I can understand this concept of "feel" and the 8ways not having a 4way feel, but like Druin, I want to see for myself.
I'm not sure of your electrical background, Druin, but the schematics are pretty simple. A few NORs, inverters, and Latches, and you have the solution. PM me if you need some help.
A gate array would be good, but my implementation will just be (1) hex inverter, (2) Dual 3-input NOR, and (1) quad SR latch.
The next question is what type of switch to put on the CP? I'd like a regular pushbutton that isn't momentary contact, but may have to use something not as good looking. Any ideas for presentable switches for the CP?
Just a thoughtAnd you have a USB connection from the PC to the solenoid, and a hack to the MAME source, so when you start a 4-way game in MAME it sends a signal over the USB interface to fire the solenoid to lock the restrictors in place and when you start a 8-way game it fires the solenoid to release the restrictors . . .
One problem is as someone said, if you're trying to aim Up, but are slightly left, thus hitting diagonal....then as was my case, I want to go left, I still stay diagonal and nothing is really registered as a change on the stick...
This is the part I have to observe on some LEDs or a scope and just try moving the 8way around and see what appears to happen. Maybe there is no way out...
After hooking up some LEDs I noticed I kept getting stuck in the diagonals...if I am up, then go right, I almost always land in the diagonal, which is still ok, BUT when I try to go back Up, I may still be in the diagonal so no observable change is evident...
So almost immediately after discovering this...I started thinking about a way to make use of the free box of new solenoids I got at work...
So now I'm staring at the Oscar 4way restrictor plate setup and brainstorming....the fact that it's in 2 pieces with a mount hole on each piece....I see opportunity to put RESTRICTORS on the restrictor to help guide it when it's pulled/pushed by a solenoid attached to the mount hole on it....so a solenoid could attach to the mount hole and pull that half of the plate set away from the shaft on an angle, and the other non-mount-hole part of that plate would be restrained from going out of wack too much..then the solenoid pushes the plate back in place and the restrictor guides the restrictor (WHAT??) back into position.
Just a thought
Just a thoughtAnd you have a USB connection from the PC to the solenoid, and a hack to the MAME source, so when you start a 4-way game in MAME it sends a signal over the USB interface to fire the solenoid to lock the restrictors in place and when you start a 8-way game it fires the solenoid to release the restrictors . . .
C'mon, how hard is it to drop some plates in and take them out ;)
But, I have to say, I still admire your ingenuity and inventiveness.
Druin,
Was my idea not feasible then? Even if you went in a totally different direction I'd still be interested in your opinion on it. (unless you discounted it because you don't have j-sticks/etc handy) Just wondering.
rampy
That idea seems perfectly fine, I looked yesterday at the website and saw that the joystick is geared (I think) so that a motor could easily rotate that, but as was mentioned, people didn't want to have to fuss with gear ratios and other things...for me I would discount it for myself only because I don't have a stick like that to work with and I am more of an electronics than mechanical guy....so I don't have confidence that I could throw a motor on there and get it to spin adequately....I may be able to overdrive it and break it perhaps...
If I talk myself out of the restrictor plate solenoid concept...I will keep it in mind, and I encourage anyone else to try the J-stick motor thing
Okay, I'm sick.....dreaming about my CP last night, I had an idea. What if I fashion a joystick with both 4way and 8way actuators. One on top of the other Then add four more switches on top of the original four switches. Now you can select which set of switches are being used.
Okay, I'm sick.....dreaming about my CP last night, I had an idea. What if I fashion a joystick with both 4way and 8way actuators. One on top of the other Then add four more switches on top of the original four switches. Now you can select which set of switches are being used.
That shares the problem of most 4-way/8-way solutions in that it still has a circular path of movement instead of a diamond one.
thanks! Speaking of ingenuity, I don't think I mentioned my rotating LCD panel....I have a 17" LCD that I bought with the intent to use in my cab when it's made (for now it's my desktop monitor) and I bought it so I can easily rotate it without worrying about the weight, plus the fact that some CRT's can't safely be rotated...
Which brand/model is your LCD? I've been looking for one that rotate's 90 degrees but haven't been able to find one.
Did it cost a LOT more than one that doesn't rotate?
It's an LG 786LS
But for rotation, it has a fixed desktop base, non rotating, and has 4 mounting plate threads on the back to attach a walll mount kit (which could rotate)
otherwise I'm rotating it myself by bolting a custom frame to the back mount holes already there, and I have a motor with a long shaft bolted to this custom frame, and I will have to mount the monitor to a circuilar plywood frame, support it by rubber casters to help hold it in place and help the wood roll in a circle, driven by the motor.
So when I play arkanoid, the monitor goes vertical...I quit and run Shinobi, the monitor spins 90degrees....kewl :-))))