Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Buy/Sell/Trade - non-retail => Topic started by: Encryptor on September 12, 2007, 01:21:47 pm
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Ever wish you had an original Tron joystick so you could play the game the way it was supposed to be played? I can't get you an original but I can get you close. I've started making the restrictors that make a Tron stick a Tron stick. To see what I mean take a look at the attached pdf file.
*Edit* The PDF was wrong. It's now fixed and hopefully more accurate.
Encryptor
Hello,
FYI - I don't make or sell the restrictors anymore but someone I know sent me the link below to someone that is selling them online. They're a bit more expensive then I was selling them for. Hopefully they're still selling them. Take care and good luck.
Tron Restrictor at Arcadefixit.com
https://www.arcadefixit.com/product.sc?productId=2384&categoryId=-1 (https://www.arcadefixit.com/product.sc?productId=2384&categoryId=-1)
Encryptor
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Pretty good write up.
I haven't broken down my GORF's into their base components yet (having trouble locating the appropriate security bit). But there's a couple of things that might need clarification, either on my end or yours.
I don't know where the bend is on the DoT stick, but Gorf looks like it lacks the bend. It's a straight stick.
I can't vouch for the first restrictor (the one you made a copy of), I didn't think to look for it when I examined my sticks. But the red restrictor doesn't exist. Instead Gorf uses a thick rubber grommet, as a sort of pseudo-restrictor I suppose. Where the red restrictor is supposed to go is on a plate with leaf switches. Gorf sticks don't have this plate. Instead the stick is attached to a sliding plate assembly which triggers optical sensors (think of how a mouse works). From what I can readily recall (I don't have the sticks before me right now), modifying the plate assembly and maintaining compatibility with the optical circuit board wouldn't be very easy.
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Oh, forgot this is BST.
How much are you intending to sell the restrictors for?
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Oh, forgot this is BST.
How much are you intending to sell the restrictors for?
In the PDF, he said they were $7 plus S/H.
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Hmmm.... I don't know if there are variations of the Gorf stick. The one I have I bought from Ebay and it was advertised as a Gorf joystick. Maybe it's not an original Gorf stick. It's a little different than a DOT stick so I'm not sure. Since your Gorf stick doesn't have the restrictor on the bottom maybe the stick I have is actually variation of a DOT stick.
The Tron and DOT sticks also have the rubber grommet in the center of the stick. I think it just adds some stiffness to the movement and returns the stick to center.
I'd be very curious to know what the differences are between your stick and the one I have. After looking at a Gorf in KLOV and one for sale on Ebay it does appear that they have a straight shaft to the joystick. That makes them even more like a Tron in that aspect.
I went to Harbor Freight and bought a bit set that contains like a 100 different security bits. It was only like $10. It had the one I needed to take apart the Tron handles.
Take a better look at your Gorf stick if you can and take some pics if at all possible. Thanks for the heads up on the difference.
I'm asking $7 plus shipping for the restrictor.
Encryptor
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Hm mm.... I don't know if there are variations of the Gorf stick. The one I have I bought from Ebay and it was advertised as a Gorf joystick. Maybe it's not an original Gorf stick. It's a little different than a DOT stick so I'm not sure. Since your Gorf stick doesn't have the restrictor on the bottom maybe the stick I have is actually variation of a DOT stick.
I'm not a 100% certain about that bottom restrictor. On the Gorf stick, I was focusing more on repairing the circuit board and trying to figure out how it works than the specific components of the rest of the stick. I definitely don't remember seeing anything that looks like a red restrictor. I'll be more than happy to go home and look for it. It's possible they used a different colored plastic, but I think it's more likely an integral part of the trigger plate above the circuit board.
I'd be very curious to know what the differences are between your stick and the one I have. After looking at a Gorf in KLOV and one for sale on Ebay it does appear that they have a straight shaft to the joystick. That makes them even more like a Tron in that aspect.
Here is one of the photos of one of my Gorfs (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Image:GORF-Control-Grip-NoPCB.jpg). That is a photo after I removed the circuit board for repairs, but I don't recall if it's before or after I removed the trigger plate there.
I went to Harbor Freight and bought a bit set that contains like a 100 different security bits. It was only like $10. It had the one I needed to take apart the Tron handles.
Sounds like a steal, I'll check it out. All the specialty shops I checked out are asking at least $5 just for one bit, and none of them have the bit I need.
Take a better look at your Gorf stick if you can and take some pics if at all possible. Thanks for the heads up on the difference.
No problem. If I don't get too wrapped up tonight on housework, I'll snap some better shots.
I'm asking $7 plus shipping for the restrictor.
Doh! You did say that in the PDF didn't you? :-[
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I'm not a 100% certain about that bottom restrictor. On the Gorf stick, I was focusing more on repairing the circuit board and trying to figure out how it works than the specific components of the rest of the stick. I definitely don't remember seeing anything that looks like a red restrictor. I'll be more than happy to go home and look for it. It's possible they used a different colored plastic, but I think it's more likely an integral part of the trigger plate above the circuit board.
Thanks I appreciate it. It definitely looks very similar to the one I have. Mine didn't have any kind of a circuit board on it though. It basically looked like a DOT stick but was black(rusty) and had black handles.
Encryptor
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Anyone else that has a Gorf joystick that they can take some detailed hi-res pictures would be greatly appreciated. I may have to update my conversion doc but at least it will be right.
Thanks.
Encryptor
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Gorf used the straight handle, and was an optical 8-way.
It didn't have the restrictor and leafswitches on the bottom.
It had two sliders, similar to the 49-way sticks.
When the stick was centered, there was a tab for each axis that was centered between two optical sensor assemblies for that direction.
When the stick was moved in a direction that tab would block one of the two sensors, to let the game know that you moved the stick in that direction.
My guess about your "Gorf" stick with leafswitches is that it was either a DOT or a Xenophobe stick.
Those are the two that are nearly identical.
The major difference between those two is that the Xeno stick has two thumb buttons.
There are some different versions of the trigger assemblies for the various sticks.
Gorf had the light up rear plate that had light bulbs on either side of the trigger assembly.
Some of the newer Xenophobe sticks used a mounting plate that was held in place by the thumb buttons, rather than screwed to the side of the stick like Tron.
I've even seen what I think are aftermarket conversions that use the newer Happ microswitch system in place of the original leafswitches.
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Gorf used the straight handle, and was an optical 8-way.
It didn't have the restrictor and leafswitches on the bottom.
It had two sliders, similar to the 49-way sticks.
When the stick was centered, there was a tab for each axis that was centered between two optical sensor assemblies for that direction.
When the stick was moved in a direction that tab would block one of the two sensors, to let the game know that you moved the stick in that direction.
My guess about your "Gorf" stick with leafswitches is that it was either a DOT or a Xenophobe stick.
Those are the two that are nearly identical.
The major difference between those two is that the Xeno stick has two thumb buttons.
There are some different versions of the trigger assemblies for the various sticks.
Gorf had the light up rear plate that had light bulbs on either side of the trigger assembly.
Some of the newer Xenophobe sticks used a mounting plate that was held in place by the thumb buttons, rather than screwed to the side of the stick like Tron.
I've even seen what I think are aftermarket conversions that use the newer Happ microswitch system in place of the original leafswitches.
Thank you for the great information on the Gorf stick. From what you said it appears I must have gotten either the DOT or Xeno stick. The insert for the stick was missing when I bought it. Actually it sounds like I got a stick that was put together from pieces someone had. It is an 8-way stick that is bent like a DOT stick but doesn't have the button in the insert for Deflect that a DOT stick should have. It has the black handles like a Gorf or Xeno stick. I've even seen a few pics of Tron and DOT machines that have black handles.
I guess I'll have to redo my conversion doc and change it to DOT/Xenophobe.
Thanks again to everyone for the information they provided.
Encryptor
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I fixed the PDF file. Hopefully it's more accurate now and people can convert their sticks if they want to. Thanks again for everyones help.
Encryptor
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The bend in the DOT/Xeno sticks does make it a bit less tiring to repeatedly hit the thumb buttons.
And Xenophobe came with black handles, but had colored backplates (red/yellow/blue) that distinguished between players.
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Bump
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Bump Bump
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Damn, I knew I forgot something. AARRGH.
Maybe this coming week, I'll actually remember. :banghead:
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Bumpity, Bumpity, Bump!
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I've got an extra Yellow Xenophobe stick assembly if anybody is interested. Let me know!
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Just received one of these restrictors from Endryptor in today's mail. I haven't had a chance to install it yet, but it sure looks good. He's obviously got a good mold, and the material he's using feels about right compared to my memory of the real deal.
Thanks Encryptor!
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Just received one of these restrictors from Endryptor in today's mail. I haven't had a chance to install it yet, but it sure looks good. He's obviously got a good mold, and the material he's using feels about right compared to my memory of the real deal.
Thanks Encryptor!
Kremmit - Thanks for the kind words. It took me a while to find the urethane I use to make them. I'm glad you are satisfied. :)
Encryptor
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I just got mine too, and would second Kremmit's remarks.
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Also, here are some pics I snagged off an ebay auction earlier, that show the top and bottom of a Gorf stick.
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NoOne=NBA= - Thanks and thanks for the pics to. It looks like the stick I received was a Xenophobe stick. It is bent like a DOT sticks and has leafs on the bottom. Although you can't really tell what the top (under the dust washer) looks like the rest of the stick looks basically like a Tron stick. It looks like the rubber centering grommet is the same and the bottom portion of the stick looks the same as well except it doesn't have leafs.
If the restrictor in the top is the same I don't see why you couldn't do the same with that stick and turn it into a 4-way. It might be worth looking on Ebay for a Gorf stick just to see. Thanks again.
Encryptor
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Bump for NOOB's
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So how are sales going on these?
With as many people as have complained about the zig-zags in the past, I'd think they'd be selling left and right.
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Far from good. I've sold 3 to one person and one each to two others. I'm a little surprised myself. Who knows. Maybe people don't understand this.
Encryptor.
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I can't believe Kremmit only bought one from you.
He has to get two more now because I have three, and he can't stand to have less of anything than I do.
We try really hard to keep our collections perfectly matched, but every now and then they get out of whack.
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Far from good. I've sold 3 to one person and one each to two others. I'm a little surprised myself. Who knows. Maybe people don't understand this.
Encryptor.
I can think of a few possible reasons for the lack of response:
1) Perhaps the current crop of n00bs doesn't care about Tron anymore, just Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat?
2) Maybe there still plenty of folks into games Tron's age, but unwilling to add a triggerstick to their panel due to the current bias against "Frankenpanels"?
3) Are U-360s and 49-ways with their fancy electronic restriction dealing with the zig-zags well enough that folks don't feel the need anymore?
4) Maybe people don't even know these are out there. Not everybody reads B/S/T. A thread in the main forum full of pictures documenting a stick conversion might get more views.
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Bump back to the front.
Encryptor
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wow, had no idea these were available.
Saint should post these as Front page news.
Ill be ordering soon.
:)
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Great Work
I'll order some
I think these would also work in a Happ 8way trigger stick
When I get one and test it out I'll post the results
Thanks for all the work and documentation!
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Bump for new interest!
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Shameless bump :)
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Bump - Still selling these. :)
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Great Work
I'll order some
I think these would also work in a Happ 8way trigger stick
When I get one and test it out I'll post the results
Thanks for all the work and documentation!
Any Idea if it works on a stock happ 8-way ?
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I really have no idea. I don't own a stock Happ 8-way.
From the exploded diagram on this page it looks like it would.
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm
The centering grommet from that joystick works in an original Tron joystick.
Encryptor
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Any Idea if it works on a stock happ 8-way ?
I don't have one either, but I've got about every other version.
The upper restrictors are freely swappable in every other version of the stick, so my educated guess would be that it will work in the Happ as well.
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New Years Bump. ;D
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Still have some of these!
Encryptor
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Got the restrictors and they are great!!!!
I'll check to see if they fit in the happ stick soon
FantaStick work Encryptor!
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Bender,
Thanks for the kind words. Did you find out if it fits a Happ yet?
Encryptor
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Bender,
Thanks for the kind words. Did you find out if it fits a Happ yet?
Encryptor
I tried quickly the other day but the posts seem to be welded on so I can't get to the restrictor but looking closely at it I'm 99% sure it will fit!!!
I WILL get it apart one day!!
I really want to make a working Tron Stick out of that thing!
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I may be interested in this for the happ joystick unless I find a real tron joystick in the near future (or if I find a dot/xenophobe one). Any word yet on happ support Bender (or anyone else)?
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I just had a thought. Encryptor, have you contacted happ to see if they are interested in selling these with their stick, or providing a link to information on how to buy from you or something? My guess is they wouldn't be interested in but it certainly wouldn't hurt to try. Also, I wonder if divemaster would be interested in selling these since he sells the happ sticks. He might even be able to confirm whether or not they fit right.
I'm shocked that you haven't had more interest, but I really think the BST forum is probably not a great place to advertise your solution. I never used to come here until I decided to consider buying from divemaster.
I would say that there needs to be a reference to this on the Tron joystick wiki page, especially if it's found to work with the happ sticks.
EDIT: I went ahead and put a link to this thread on the Tron Joystick wiki page. Hope no one minds.
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it works great with the happ stick
here is the thread I made on how to do it
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=78233.msg815651#msg815651 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=78233.msg815651#msg815651)
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I have a happ 8 way stick hacked with a flight stick top, not the happ flight stick. Anyone know if it'll fit on that somehow?
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Which 8 way stick do you have? There are many different ones.
Encryptor
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Encryptor, I recently bought a complete tron panel on ebay and I'm in the process of cleaning up/restoring the stick and spinner. I have the restrictor out and all cleaned up, and I'm wondering if I might want to replace it with one of yours. It's in good shape considering age (it didn't have the rust pitting that yours had - my stick was relatively rust free), but it is quite hard, and I wonder if it is supposed to be this hard. I have to use a fair amount of force to squeeze it at the corner spots with my fingers (i.e. up/down/left/right). If I push with my thumb on the diagonal spots, it doesn't budge at all. The impression I got was that it was somewhat stiff, but I figured it would have more movement than that.
Although maybe it's because I'm doing this with my hands and the restrictor out, as opposed to doing it with the fully assembled stick.
Thoughts?
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I'm sure being 20+ years old that the urethane has stiffened a good bit but even the repros I make are fairly stiff. They do give a little but not much. I imagine with the force of the stick pushing on it you may see more difference in the stiffness.
Encryptor
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I just reassembled the stick after cleaning it all up, and that restrictor might as well be metal - the movement is so minute that it's for all intents and purposes nonexistent. If you were to estimate how much it moves using "normal" force, how much would it be? 1/8"? More? Less? I'm maybe getting 1/32".
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I don't know how much movement there is and my Tron stick isn't together right now. The purpose of the restrictor was to make it more difficult to hit the diagonals but not impossible. If you can hit the diagonals that's all that matters.
Encryptor
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Well that all depends on how I adjust the leaves. Right now I can't hit the diagonals, but I could if I adjust them back a bit.
So are you saying the "make it more difficult part" is not about making the player push with extra force against the restrictor? It's more about providing only a small spot along the edge of the restrictor between "left" and "up" (for instance) where both are hit at the same time? In other words, the problem with the light cycle level isn't if you hit a diagonal at all, it's if you stay in a diagonal for more than a fraction of a second?
I thought it was the former, but that's just my interpretation of things I've read here. I haven't had any way to test it until now, and even now I don't have it hooked up yet.
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They made the restrictor so you didn't hit the diagonals while playing the light cycles but if you push hard enough during other portions of the game you can hit the diagonals.
Encryptor
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Which 8 way stick do you have? There are many different ones.
Encryptor
It's a happ competition.
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No.
These only fit the flight stick style bases.
You should be able to build a restrictor into the CP itself though.
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Encryptor, you still sell these restrictors?
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Encryptor, you still sell these restrictors?
PM Sent
Encryptor
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Ok boys and gals! I finally got around to getting some more urethane and the first restrictor is curing in the basement as I type this. I know there were a few people that wanted some of these over the last few months. I am taking orders again if anyone is looking for one let me know. Same prices, $7 for the restrictor and $5 shipping to the continental US. Thank you for the support.
Encryptor
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So it seems that Happ has changed the manufacture of the heavy-duty 8-way. There is no separate bottom restrictor anymore which can be turned 45 degrees. It is now built into the bottom plate. I don't see any way to do the Tron modification anymore with this joystick.
http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm (http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm)
:soapbox:
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So it seems that Happ has changed the manufacture of the heavy-duty 8-way. There is no separate bottom restrictor anymore which can be turned 45 degrees. It is now built into the bottom plate. I don't see any way to do the Tron modification anymore with this joystick.
http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm (http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/50997000x.htm)
:soapbox:
The piece 96-4535-00 on the exploded diagram is the piece that I make and the piece that restricts the joystick to 4-way.
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Do you still sell these? I am interested in buying a couple, please msg on how to get them ordered.
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Hello,
FYI - I don't make or sell the restrictors anymore but someone I know sent me the link below to someone that is selling them online. They're a bit more expensive then I was selling them for. Hopefully they're still selling them. Take care and good luck.
Tron Restrictor at Arcadefixit.com
https://www.arcadefixit.com/product.sc?productId=2384&categoryId=-1 (https://www.arcadefixit.com/product.sc?productId=2384&categoryId=-1)
Encryptor
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Hello.
I realize this is an old post. I figured I'd try here before starting over.
I have an old Tron restrictor that I'd like to swap out for the one that came with my Happ Joystick -but it looks exactly the same; more like a square bumper than the diamond type I'm seeing here in the restrictor mods.
Yes. It's driving me nuts. You get to the light cycles and everything goes out the window when it goes more 8-way than 4-way.
Will this authentic restrictor work?
Or do I need the mod?
Thanks
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Will this authentic restrictor work?
Or do I need the mod?
That’s for Discs of Tron.
Tron’s restrictor looks like this:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200617/8fcf02b0ae7f7b990a29378f98ce86cd.jpg)
Notice it’s a diamond pattern rather than a square.
You can mod the stick to put a U360 on the bottom and then restrict the directions via software rather than buying this. The above restrictor will screw you up for other games that require 8 way (like Discs of Tron). The mod allows you to play all games and put a per game restriction on. There won’t be the physical restriction, but at least it will work for a variety of games. Here’s the mod link if you are interested:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,86734.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,86734.0.html)
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@Encryptor What would you say to posting the design of this part to Thingiverse so that folks coming by 10+ years later can get the part made on a 3D printer? :)
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@Encryptor What would you say to posting the design of this part to Thingiverse so that folks coming by 10+ years later can get the part made on a 3D printer? :)
It will be very difficult, probably impossible with current filament options, to make a 3d printed Tron upper restrictor that works properly and lasts.
- If someone does do a 3d model for this item, it would be a better idea to do a casting mold and include information about the proper material to use. (almost certain that it's urethane, but not sure what durometer.)
(https://www.arcadefixit.com/images/13540720366861262152569.jpeg)
It would be fairly easy to make a 3d printable Tron lower restrictor. (Attached photo is from Encryptor's DOT- Xenphobe to Tron Conversion.pdf (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=71229.0;attach=272669) in the OP of this thread)
Related thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159989.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159989.0.html)
Scott
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Impossible? Nah.
There's a lot of great exotic filaments nowadays. Wood, metal, NinjaFlex.
Besides, is this even a 3D shape? Seems like you could cut it really easily from urethane sheet stock. I have a little desktop CNC that would make quick work of it.
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Does anyone want to measure some parts for me?
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There's a lot of great exotic filaments nowadays.
Yes there are . . . and I haven't seen any with the right properties for this application.
- Ninjaflex is way too flexible and wears too easily.
- TPU is too flexible and wears too easily.
Even if you find a suitable exotic filament that works in your printer you'll need the right settings to get the best possible results.
Bottom line: With currently available materials, casting a Tron upper restrictor is absolutely more likely to yield acceptable results than 3d printing one.
Besides, is this even a 3D shape?
The center hole is slightly tapered so yes, there is a bit of a 3d shape.
- If you look at the pic that Arroyo posted, you can see the word "TOP" on the part so you know which way to install it.
Seems like you could cut it really easily from urethane sheet stock. I have a little desktop CNC that would make quick work of it.
Milling could be a viable approach, but the taper would make laser cutting a non-starter for most desktop CNCs.
Does anyone want to measure some parts for me?
You're more likely to get a response if you ask in the related thread mentioned earlier -- there are more eyes in Main than here in B/S/T. :cheers:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159989.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159989.0.html)
Scott
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FWIW. I disassembled and measured a Tron to reproduce these parts.
For the bumper, you'll want to print from the hardest flexible filament you can find, e.g. Ninja Flex Shore 95A.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5228170
For the wear plate, use a high infill setting and any PLA or ABS.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5228285
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Those models look good, brickpolisher. :cheers:
Please consider adding a "TOP" marking on the bumper restrictor and a comment in the Thingiverse description reminding the user to install it right side up.
Scott
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Yes there are . . . and I haven't seen any with the right properties for this application.
- Ninjaflex is way too flexible and wears too easily.
- TPU is too flexible and wears too easily.
Even if you find a suitable exotic filament that works in your printer you'll need the right settings to get the best possible results.
Ninja's original stuff was like soft like a rubber band. But they have some stuff that's Shore 95A now, and that's somewhere around a shopping cart wheel as flex goes.
Doesn't need to last 40 years if you can just print them :) I ordered a couple from Sculpteo and Craftcloud and will report back!
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I just completed the straight joystick as well, it's a 3D model. But there's a PDF with a drawing. You could make this from a tube on a drill press.
You know... just in case anyone wants to take a shot at straightening their Happ flight sticks. I'm going to use this to convert a vintage Xenophobe to Tron stick.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5229395
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LOL- You know, I'm trying to Not spend more $$ I don't have on a 3d printer...Thanks a hellofalot....
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Download my STL design and have Sculpteo print it in Multijet TPU for $16. Just got one and it looks cool and works great!