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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: shorthair on May 23, 2007, 09:31:55 pm

Title: Which encoder for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 23, 2007, 09:31:55 pm: Very specifically, what situations require which encoders? Though a comparison of I-pac and Keywiz units is welcome, I'm more asking about which of each of these units is used in what general CP configuration?
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Donkey_Kong on May 23, 2007, 09:36:57 pm: (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66948.0;attach=75790;image)
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Apollo on May 23, 2007, 09:39:43 pm: :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Hoopz on May 23, 2007, 11:21:00 pm: Intellivision controllers of course. :cheers:
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Kaytrim on May 23, 2007, 11:45:03 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 23, 2007, 09:31:55 pm
Very specifically, what situations require which controllers? Though a comparison of I-pac and Keywiz units is welcome, I'm more asking about which of each of these units is used in what circumstance?

I'll take a stab at this. If your motherboard doesn't have a ps\2 port then the KeyWiz is out. This leaves you with a GPWiz or I-Pac (with USB cable) as your controller. If you want the shift option and no PS/2 port then the I-Pac is your only choice. If you have a ps\2 port then it is a toss up between them. The choice is yours. They both have a shift function, they both are keyboard encoders, they both default to the MAME default keys, they both have excellent support.

Now when you talk about mouse encoders there is a choice there as well. Both GGG and Ultimarc have their version. Ultimarc does have the mini-pac which IIRC has both mouse and keyboard encoders in one device. For straight mouse encoding GGG has the OptiWiz and Ultimarc has the Opti-Pac. Both of these devices have PS/2 or USB support, you determine this at time of purchase. Both of these will work for trackballs or spinners.

It all boils down to which company you want to work with not the hardware. As I am biased to GGG I won't tell you which company to deal with because the choice is yours.

TTFN :cheers:
Kaytrim
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Xam on May 23, 2007, 11:53:38 pm: Its steel belted...I don't understand :dizzy:

Xam
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: psik0tik on May 24, 2007, 12:25:16 am: I'll crack the mystery....They are used to emulate keyboard functions via arcade buttons and joysticks :) if you want I can say it slower
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: patrickmaher on May 24, 2007, 04:15:04 am: Try the wiki (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Encoders)?
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: Buddabing on May 24, 2007, 08:16:09 am: Quote from: patrickmaher on May 24, 2007, 04:15:04 am
Try the wiki (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Encoders)?

:cheers:
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 24, 2007, 03:29:30 pm: Quote from: Donkey_Kong on May 23, 2007, 09:36:57 pm
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66948.0;attach=75790;image)

Ya all shouldn't hurt yourself so. As well, the wiki isn't up-to-date as the mini-pac isn't in there, and I think some GGG stuff, either. Still, just looking at the capacities of the devices doesn't necessarily point in a certain direction. After looking at them, it's easy to get saturated and not make any decision, let alone try to figure out things like why would someone not want keyboard pass-through.

Thanks, Kaytrim, that's some of what I was wanting to know. But more what I'm asking is what general CP configurations would demand which type of device.
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: shardian on May 24, 2007, 03:35:28 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 24, 2007, 03:29:30 pm
let alone try to figure out things like why would someone not want keyboard pass-through.

Keyboard pass-thru is not necessary if you use a ps/2 encoder and a usb keyboard or vice-versa.
Title: Re: Which controller for what?
Post by: ahofle on May 24, 2007, 03:44:25 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 24, 2007, 03:29:30 pm
Thanks, Kaytrim, that's some of what I was wanting to know. But more what I'm asking is what general CP configurations would demand which type of device.

Since they both do exactly the same thing, there isn't one CP configuration that demands one or the other.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: unclet on May 24, 2007, 03:52:10 pm: Based on how many microswitches (ie: how many buttons and joystick directions) you are going to use will dictate what type of keyboard encoder you should be looking for. Some keyboard encoders support a a lot of inputs while other encoders handle less. I built a 4-player control panel which uses 72 inputs so I purchased an encoder which allowed for72 individual inputs to be connected to it. If you are going to build a two-player control panel then perhaps an encoder with 40 inputs (or even 30 or 20 inputs) might suit you better.

Keep in mind the answer you seek is also somewhat based on your personal preference of how you intend to interact with your control panel as well as the amount of money you wish to spend (I guess that one is obvious, but wrth mentioning). I personally am not a fan of "shift" keys. Basically, I do not want to have to hold one pushbutton down while I then press another one to make it do something. I would rather have two separate puhsbuttons separately available. I also wanted to connect an actual keyboard to my cabinet since I planned on playing some PC games on the cabinet which required input from the user (ie: You Dont Know Jack games .... love these games) ..... so I would not buy an encoder which did not allow for PS2 keyboard pass-thru to occur.

Another reason to buy a specific encoder is based on how easy it is to configure it. I have multiple emulators on my cabinet and if I switch from one emulator to another emulator, then I am going to have to remap all of pushbutton/joystick inputs (ie: going to have to reconfigure the encoder). You might want to make sure that reconfiguring your encoder is easy to do. If you are going to use multiple emulators on your cabinet then you would like the encoder to reconfigure itself "quickly" since it might be possible that each individual game (within the same emulator) might have it's own unique button/jpystick configurations so switching between each game might cause the encoder to reconfigure itself, and you would like this to be fast isntead of slow I woudl assume.

Another, another reason to get a specific encoder is based on whether you intend to attach a trackball, spinner or mouse click buttons to it or not. I believe the IPac does not allow these to be connected to the encoder, so buying the additional OptiPac is required (someone please correct me if I am wrong).

Anyway, point is, make sure you know what you want your encoder to do, then search around for the one with everything you want included in it.

Finally, the encoder I am using is the Hagstrom KE-72 ..... (if you want to attach a trackball to it, then you will need to get the KE-72T version). This allows up to 72 individual inputs but also allows for multiple keys to be assigned to one press of the button, which I am not sure many other encoders offer. I believe I can assign up to 32 keypresses to one single push of a button. This is ideal for allowing me to press one key to run a batch file or something similiar ......

Hope you get some good ideas about encoders out of this ......... :)
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: miles2912 on May 24, 2007, 07:41:12 pm: First step is design your CP. Then you can figure out what encoder will best fit the design. I am a big fan of the mini-pac because it packs so much and at a great price.

The i-pac does not support a spinner or track ball, but you can get a usb/ps2 tb and spinner so it doesn't matter.

Don
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: DrumAnBass on May 24, 2007, 08:49:13 pm: Also keep in mind that the GPWiz usb encoder emulates a traditional "gamepad"/PC joystick which could be useful for playing modern games with the least amount of configuration required.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 24, 2007, 11:19:54 pm: Thanks, unclet. (Since you don't capitalise in your name, I always think like trumpet.) I remember you use the Hagstrom. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to have pass-through, as it saves on a connection, and if you connect your controller to the PS/2, you don't run into potential issues of where the usb ports aren't receiving power but your PS/2 is. (Granted, the only think I can think of off the top of my head is in stand-by mode, and most people wouldn't use that on their cab, but you never know.)

For controls configurations, I thought it was easier to set the emu. There is a game or two out there I like that don't have changable controls settings, but I just don't bother with them. For example, Gold Miner Joe. NEAT game, but you can only alternate between a fixed GP or keyboard configuration. In this day and age, I mean, christ.

Ah, thanks, DrunAnBass. I didn't get that reading over the documentation.

miles, what does the mini-pac do? No documentation on the site.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: Kaytrim on May 25, 2007, 10:03:27 am: One other thing about the GPWiz I forgot to mention was that because it is a gamepad, hence the GP in the name, there is no shift option.

Kaytrim
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: BobA on May 25, 2007, 05:06:50 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 24, 2007, 11:19:54 pm

miles, what does the mini-pac do? No documentation on the site.

Basically 2 player with trackball and spinner interface.

http://ultimarc.com/mp_inst.html (http://ultimarc.com/mp_inst.html)
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: ahofle on May 25, 2007, 05:12:12 pm: It's also currently on sale for some crazy low price to BYOAC members:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63236.0
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: RandyT on May 25, 2007, 05:15:37 pm: Quote from: Kaytrim on May 25, 2007, 10:03:27 am
One other thing about the GPWiz I forgot to mention was that because it is a gamepad, hence the GP in the name, there is no shift option.

Keep in mind that in MAME, the shift option is extraneous. MAME can do the shift stuff internally, so pick a button and call it "shift". Then, set up some functions that are activated when your new "shift" button and some other button are pressed at the same time. Free shift button for any encoder :cheers:

RandyT
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: Kaytrim on May 25, 2007, 05:58:44 pm: Quote from: RandyT on May 25, 2007, 05:15:37 pm
Quote from: Kaytrim on May 25, 2007, 10:03:27 am
One other thing about the GPWiz I forgot to mention was that because it is a gamepad, hence the GP in the name, there is no shift option.

Keep in mind that in MAME, the shift option is extraneous. MAME can do the shift stuff internally, so pick a button and call it "shift". Then, set up some functions that are activated when your new "shift" button and some other button are pressed at the same time. Free shift button for any encoder :cheers:

RandyT

I understand that Randy and I know that not everyone does. However that is only the case in MAME. If you are using the GPWiz with for example a first person shooter like Halo then you are limited to the number of inputs on the card. Where as if you are using a KeyWiz you can emulate more inputs with the Shazam key. Also with the KeyWiz being programmable it is much more versatile then the GPWiz for a variety of uses. Of course you know that you built them. ;D

Kaytrim
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 25, 2007, 10:42:41 pm: Well, looking back over everything, for a two-player with dedicated 4-way slaved off 1P, I would only need 25 inputs, including dedicated pause. (1. I don't know why SS connects the middle button to the I-PAC. 2. you really need three buttons on each side for pinball; not that it's that comfortable cos of the overhang of the panel plus T-molding seam.) Since most controllers have at least 28 inputs, having a dedicated start and exit, and one left for shift, would be no problem.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: Guaranos on May 25, 2007, 11:45:37 pm: I have used both the I-PAC2 and the KeyWiz Max on multiple 2-player fighter type machines. Both seem to work fine and are basically interchangeable for that purpose. I had one P2 based motherboard that didn't like my KeyWiz, but otherwise haven't run into compatibility issues with either.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: Grasshopper on May 26, 2007, 05:15:44 pm: In my opinion the encoder that gives you the most bangs for the buck is the Minipac, and they also happen to be on special offer at the moment.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 26, 2007, 07:42:01 pm: But how is it different than, either, it's competitor or siblings? (Christ, I can't even find that offer thread, now.)
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: Grasshopper on May 26, 2007, 08:05:51 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 26, 2007, 07:42:01 pm
But how is it different than, either, it's competitor or siblings? (Christ, I can't even find that offer thread, now.)

Well it's cheaper than the standard Ipac and has more features.

It supports mouse and spinner as well as buttons.

Unlike the GGG offerings it keeps its settings on power down.

It is both ps/2 and USB compatible.
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: ahofle on May 26, 2007, 08:50:44 pm: Quote from: shorthair on May 26, 2007, 07:42:01 pm
(Christ, I can't even find that offer thread, now.)

You mean the one I posted above? :laugh2:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=63236.0
Title: Re: Which encoder for what?
Post by: shorthair on May 26, 2007, 11:52:14 pm: Right! I actually searched for it, both, through function and manually. Forgot you had linked it. Hey.

gwass-hauppa: sounds groovy to me. I may have to get a couple despite not having any panels soon on the drawing board.