Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: tyweed on April 14, 2003, 04:36:29 pm
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Hi i'm interested in getting a few opinions on maybe a few alternatives for my cabinet. i used mdf and sanded it smooth then primered it a precceeded to paint it with a black gloss. It looks horrible black shows every blemish it looks like iu bought it from a garage sale from the 1960's. Is there a better way to decorate my cabinet i'd likew to try laminate but i have routered edges and my dad says it be too hard and it would not look right any otrher ideas?
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sand it again and use rustoleum SATIN black. gloss always shows too much imperfaections. we used the satin and it looks great.
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I think satin or semi-gloss black is what most people use. Did you roll it on, or use a paint brush? A nice (read NOT CHEAP-O) thin nap roller would be best.
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Hi i'm interested in getting a few opinions on maybe a few alternatives for my cabinet. i used mdf and sanded it smooth then primered it a precceeded to paint it with a black gloss. It looks horrible black shows every blemish it looks like iu bought it from a garage sale from the 1960's. Is there a better way to decorate my cabinet i'd likew to try laminate but i have routered edges and my dad says it be too hard and it would not look right any otrher ideas?
LOL..sorry not to laugh but did you forget the prime the cabinet?
I am not that good with paint but last I knew you have to prime your cabinet then use latex paint for good result....
Laminate is *THE* way to go in my honest opinion ::).
Laminate gives you a great look without much hassle. :)
C'mon man..I cant prime+paint+wait 20 years so the paint dries(j/k)
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Hi i'm interested in getting a few opinions on maybe a few alternatives for my cabinet. i used mdf and sanded it smooth then primered it a precceeded to paint it with a black gloss. It looks horrible black shows every blemish it looks like iu bought it from a garage sale from the 1960's. Is there a better way to decorate my cabinet i'd likew to try laminate but i have routered edges and my dad says it be too hard and it would not look right any otrher ideas?
Heh, How many coats of gloss?? Did you lightly sand between coats....
did you use a brush or roller (I like roller myself)
A "flatter" finish will hide blemishes better...
You might be able to sand, and put some more coats on...
The big thing is to be patient and not rush.
you stated that you used primer... one trick I like to use is to use tinted primer to save me coats later.
I'm sure it can still be saved, but report back what materials/tecniques you were using... and where you mighta went wrong...
*Shrug*
rampy
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I posted this in another thread a month ago.
For black (or anything semi or glossy) to work well, you need to do MULTIPLE coats of flat or ultra-flat, followed by a final satin, semi-gloss or gloss coat. Sanding in between EACH coat!
Do NOT try to just prime, sand and final coat (or 2 final coat) ESPECIALLY with a semi or gloss paint. They will tend to run and the gloss in them will build up ridges too quickly over a minor imperfection making a mountain out of a molehill.
By using base coats of flat paint, you can spray TONS of it on and not build up bad ridges (unless you are an absolute horrible painter), then sand between and then just spray a LIGHT final coat of the level of gloss you want. Even the best painters cannot always spray a good gloss coat too thick.
I did this on a ton of coin doors and cocktail clips last summer and the results (after messing up the first one going direct to gloss from primer) turned out excellent. All that flat gives good base coats (and you can use CHEAP < $1 cans of flat spay on the base coats, and save the $$ for a good final coat that you only need 1 coat of).
Doing this trick even alowed me to get tons of base coats inside the coin returns on bally/midway coin doors--without causing puddles/runs around the front lip of the door from the overspray!
I also bake each coat for at least 4-6 hours in the hot sun (longer if it's humid). Makes a great product.. strong enough even for the bare lip of a Pacman upright control panel (Satin final coat) or Ms.Pac cocktail control panel (gloss final coat)
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You sanded the MDF?? Sorry, but one of the reasons you use MDF is that the material needs little to no prep. Just prime and paint. I used a paint sprayer, no sanding (other than filled wood screw holds), primer and paint and am very happy with the results.
Good luck, hope you get it looking the way you want...
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Sorry i didnt really sand the mdf just the putty which we used to cover all screw holes. If i decided to use laminate ewhere could i find it online i'm looking for a blue color?
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Sorry i didnt really sand the mdf just the putty which we used to cover all screw holes. If i decided to use laminate ewhere could i find it online i'm looking for a blue color?
man, you crack me up... do you have A.D.D.?
I demand pictures of your handywork... be posted =P
have you given up fixing the paint?
Home depot has laminate sheets... and I bet there are other resources around you. Although if you dorked up painting, you really scare me with a router in your hands.
Rampy
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tyweed - I put a lot of coats of gloss black on mine - you do just have to be patient and keep at it. Use a super-fine roller from home depot or lowes and I don't know how you can get bad results.
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here are my pictures of my cabinet i'm in a wheelchair so i designed it so i can roll under to control panel. Any tips i'd like that to see what i can do to make it better...........
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pic #2
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Now now... go easy on him ;)
Actually, I would not have screwed through the side unless you were planning on laminiating anyway. No matter how good the putty or sanding, you CANNOT hide screw holes. (Okay, you could get close, but you'd have to use something like sheetrock toping compound and then texture the entire side in an attempt to hide them in the texture)
I would not have screwed through the outside. I would have either pegged it together with solid hardwood pegs (easy to do just takes a lot of time aligning). Or I would have gone the simple route and bought hardwood (NOT pine/fir/spruce) "true" 1x1's (not 3/4" x 3/4") and drilled through them and supported the corners from the inside, just like the classic cabinets were made originally.
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#3
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Like some have already said, gloss WILL show imperfections like that. It's not like all is lost though - try a coat or two of black satin-finish over it and see what happens.
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also i wanted to put a marque above the tv do you think i should do it right above the tv and cut it in or place it above at very top...? i'm up for critics
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All I can say is WOW :-X
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did you sand after you primed too?
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painting requires patience. when i paint a cab it doesnt start looking good until at least the 5th or 6th coat.
i used a sponge trim roller and rustoleum high gloss industrial enamel purchased from home depot.
inbetween coats (let it dry 24 hrs after each coat) use a small power sander and something like 150-200 grit sandpaper. sand the whole thing, use a small piece of sandpaper by hand for the nooks and crannies you cant get at with the power sander.
on the final coat, make sure your sponge roller is new or in really good condition. a new roller will give the cleanest finish. dont sand after the last coat.
after 7 or 8 coats the paint will have a glassy clearcoat look.
sometimes it takes longer to paint the cabinet than it does to build it.
-pocketz
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also i wanted to put a marque above the tv do you think i should do it right above the tv and cut it in or place it above at very top...? i'm up for critics
I'd say right above the screen, not at the very top. There's a lot of "dead space" that could be filled up.
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You can get paint to look good, even gloss paint.
I recommend oil base over latex. I know it's more work, but the finished product is better and more durable.
You have to let it dry (really dry) before you re-coat. If you jump the gun, you'll get results like what tyweed has in his pictures.
I agree that several coats are needed.
tyweed, if you sand off the top coat of paint you can still get good results. That's another good thing about painting, if you mess it up, just sand it and do it again.
Rocky
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Looks like more paint is needed. Interested to hear that you are in a wheelchair, this is a good solution. Make sure you put up a website and some plans, your cabinet is unique!
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Thanks for posting the pics!
It is a pretty cool design you got going there (modified showcase).
Like some of the people here said, don't be discouraged with the paint yet.... (although laminate does look nice)
If you take your time, follow some of the tips in this thread, and work at it I'm sure the paint finish will come out great.
the thing is to not get discouraged, go slow, and be patient.
A painting project gone awry can be very fustrating... I nearly lost my mind painting my 1/2 bath deep red (red paint has a lot of tint in it that makes it a: dry slower b: take lots of coat for good even coverage. like 7 coats of "drumbeat" red... bah!)
*shrug* Let us know what you decide to do, and how it works out. I'm sure if you did at least another coat (but sanded some first) you'd see an improvement and know whether or not you're on the right track (but I defer to any more professional painting opinions).
good luck!
Rampy
PS my vote is for the marquee to be above the screen too (not on top, top of the cabinet)
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I like the overall design, kind of like the biiig shooters. My only design suggestions would be a piece of plexi between the cab and the TV, looks a little more finished in my opinion.
As far as the paint... I've done a few cars in my time. Black will show every little teenie tiny speck of dirt that lands on the finish, especially glossy black. White paint hides almost everything, but who wants a white cab? Matte/flat black hides tons of blemishes to all but the trained eye.
A paint w/texture will hide everything, and look pretty good. A few company's make "hammered" paint that dries with a definite texute. It only takes 2 coats with a fine nap roller.
It is very hard to get even coverage with spray cans, the pattern is just too small. But if you want to use a spray can you can get a matte finish w/any kind of paint glossy or otherwise. When you get to the final coat just spray from farther back than recommended. The paint will dry slightly before it hits the cab and give it a dull finish.
I don't know how you would be able to laminate the curved section of the cab. I think the lam. is rigid.
Good job on the design, good luck w/the finish!
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My semi-retired father (sign painter by trade) swears that the best way to deal with MDO, and probably MDF as well (similar surface, smooth and porous) is to do what Rocky suggested.
Seal the board with a good, thick, water based Latex paint, a couple of coats with a little sanding in-between, and then use a quality oil-based enamel. But whatever you do, make sure the latex is completely dry before applying the enamel.
The best enamels to use are the types not found at the local "home" stores, rather a pro supplier. I've seen glass-like finishes when all the steps are followed with the proper materials and tools.
A small amount of linseed oil will retard the drying process slightly, but will also help your enamel to smooth out nicely. Just don't use too much or the paint will never dry.
RandyT
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Just to throw my 2 cents in. I really like to wet sand things. When you are at the 150 to 200 grit level, start dipping the sand paper into water. (Make sure you use sand paper made for wet sanding)
You could take it to 500 grit and make it look like glass. Try to use an orbital sander instead of a back and forth sander. If you only have one of the vibrating kind. I would use a sanding block instead with wet sanding it. And like what a lot of people have said, it takes time and a lot of work. If you decide to use oil based paint (which is my preference) Do really thin coats and let them dry a good while (like 24 hours for each coat) before sanding.
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I screwed through the sides and you can hardly see a couple screw holes.. You have to putty and sand down with heavy grit then finish with a really light grit sandpaper. To finish it off I primed, then used a medium nap roller with 2-3 coats of semi-gloss black paint, it's looks really, really good.
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To make it look AUTHENTIC....
1) Paint it as quickly as possible with a flat paint. Dont spend ANY extra time... missing sections is ok, but only if the primer is of another color.
2) burn a few smoke holes on it. If you don't smoke, take your cabinet outside, and get the local drunk to us it as an ashtray for a few weeks.
3) Make sure the bottom corners are all broken. I don't know how it happens, but cabinets seem to come new this way.
4) Vomit stains are GREAT!
good luck
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To make it look AUTHENTIC....
1) Paint it as quickly as possible with a flat paint. Dont spend ANY extra time... missing sections is ok, but only if the primer is of another color.
2) burn a few smoke holes on it. If you don't smoke, take your cabinet outside, and get the local drunk to us it as an ashtray for a few weeks.
3) Make sure the bottom corners are all broken. I don't know how it happens, but cabinets seem to come new this way.
4) Vomit stains are GREAT!
good luck
I think the point he's trying to make is- it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect in every way, As long as you are satisfied with your finished result (you aren't yet, but you will be when you're done:-) , and it brings you joy when you play it.., great!
<edit: Plus, it'll look much better than any well used cab you would find in a location/arcade>
just take your time, sand it lightly with 320 (or 240 <if there's visible lines/ridges> on the real rough parts) anyways, sand just enough to get rid of ridges and runs and to make the glossy surface look satiny..
Your fingers will tell you when it's sanded enough - run your hands all over it when you're done sanding to feel any rough spots you may have missed and then paint another coat of whatever finish (satin/semi-gloss/gloss)you desire over top of the ones you have there..
Post a pic when it's done, I'm sure it'll look fine... :)
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Thats a really nicely designed cabinet. Once you are happy with the paint and maybe add some sideart and a marquee, I think it will look exellent. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished results.
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The Pac-Land cabinet I'm redoing right now is particle board.. I used Kilz (2 coats -- 1st sanded @ 150; 2nd @ 220), Rustoleum heavy duty black gloss and fine rollers from HD (2 coats -- 1st sanded @ 220, 2nd wiped down with Steel Wool 2), and then a Polycrylic topcoat (3 coats, sanding between each). It's hard, still quite glossy (the Polycrylic ambers it a bit), and very smooth. I'll be coating my entire MAME cabinet in it, as soon as I wheel it back out to the garage.
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Just to add to the varied opinions: I started with MDF .. unsanded ... unprimed ... I used Sears Rustoleum semi-gloss black with a roller .. 3 coats ... looks great. It will tend to cause banded striping unless you use a healthy amount of paint and then let it dry fully between coats. I actually poured paint on the board in big lines and then quickly rolled it .. this seemed to work best for me at least :)
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AND professor Snake says...stay the hell away from paint.
C'mon its almost like torture after all the work... :-[
I actually know how to paint but still suck at getting it right :-\.
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another way to get a good finish is to use a black (or any colour you want!) stain, and then SPRAY shitloads of clear over the top with light sandings between coats. it will give a fantastic high gloss finish
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Hey man no worries, even if it IS completely ruined from the paint, you can always turn it into a skateboard ramp!
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tweeed your going to get mad, but you need to redo your control panel imho. Aside from the fact that you could land aircraft on it, the buttons are MUCH too far apart. It looks like your going for a sf layout and unless you are a giant among men the lip of one button to another should be no more than 1/16th of an inch apart.
I wish you would have posted pics before you put that nice cpo on it and I could have told ya.
Again, just a suggestion, but I think your going to find that layout very unauthentic and maybe a bit akward for complicated moves.
Anyway, regarding the paint. The number 1 culprit of sloppy paint is that it was put on too thick. 6 light coats will turn out much better than 1 or 2 thick ones.
I hope that helps, and don't worry about it... it's your first. You usually end up trashing it eventually anyway. ;)
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Hey howard i designed it with buttons far apart. I have very bad finer dexterity so i use the side of my hand to hit buttons alot. So that i don't hit 2 buttons at same time i spread them out. But thanks i'm going to get it painted right this next time..........
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Randy- I thought oil based on top of water based was a big no-no. :-\ Won't it peel and sluff off? Unless it's water based primer underneath? Also, oil based is a nasty medium to be working with from a wheelchair. It gets all over everything and has to be removed with paint thinner. I'm picturing a major paint containment problem! ;) I defer to you since it sounds like you know professionals. ::)
Tyweed- Way to go! This has to be one of the most perfect examples of why we build cabinets from scratch- to customize EVERYTHING to our individual needs/wants. You inspire me man. :D
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Oil on latex will work as long as the latex has fully cured before the oil is applied.
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Randy- I thought oil based on top of water based was a big no-no. :-\ Won't it peel and sluff off? Unless it's water based primer underneath? Also, oil based is a nasty medium to be working with from a wheelchair. It gets all over everything and has to be removed with paint thinner. I'm picturing a major paint containment problem! ;) I defer to you since it sounds like you know professionals. ::)
I originally thought that as well. But I have seen panels painted in this manner hold up to 5 years of outdoor conditions and they still have no problems.
Latex, being as thick as it is (BTW, do what the label on the can tells you and NEVER thin it), does a pretty good job of sealing a porous surface. Once dry, it's compatible with enamels, but I would stay away from lacquer or other aromatic solvent based coatings.
As for the mess, latex, once dried, is no picnic either. Just because it's water based doesn't mean it comes off any easier. It just means cleanup can be done with water instead of mineral spirits.
For what it's worth, dried enamel can often be removed with mineral spirits, whereas dried latex can't, and water won't do much to it either. At least that has been my experience, YMMV. :)
RandyT
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From what I learned in art school:
The main difference between oil/water and latex is oil and water stain the wood while latex coats it. In other words Latex is better for filling out a rough surface but oil will last longer as it can't chip off. Oil is very hard to work with though and for that reason I'm not so sure it's a better idea, especially considering it doesn't coat on top of latex well.