Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Monitor/Video Forum => Topic started by: Jeff AMN on February 19, 2007, 05:31:58 pm
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Now I've read the Wiki, but I'm still a little bit unsure about what direction I should take. I'm trying to decide between a TV with an s-video connection and a mutlisync monitor. Now I know there is a price difference, but I need to know if that difference is worth it. I'm willing to pay extra for a monitor if it's that much nicer for a cabinet than a TV screen. I'm shooting for the 27" size, just to be clear. Also I don't plan on running any PC games/applications on my cabinet, it's purely for MAME (and possibly other emulators).
-Would I need to get an ArcadeVGA card for sure even with a multisync monitor?
-Is monitor quality an issue over time? Are they as fragile as they seem to be?
-What sort of challenges are there when using a TV over a monitor and vice versa?
-Any specific model/brand recommendations for either a monitor or TV?
-Anything additional I should know/take into account before deciding?
--EDIT: I ended up picking up a 27" Samsung set with component inputs for my display. Thanks for the input!--
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Using an S-Video TV is going to give you lower quality than a real arcade monitor. Using an arcade monitor will give you the most arcade authentic picture. Using a PC Monitor will look sharper than an arcade monitor, but a lot less arcade like due to the higher res of arcade monitors. You will need an ArcadeVGA if you want to run at arcade resolutions natively (15Khz), and don't want to mess with AdvanceMAME.
If you wish to pursue Arcade Monitors, I would not recommend a newer wells gardner, due to poor reliability. I would also stay clear of ALS Marketing and Makvision as well. I would try these brands instead:
Billabs: www.billabs.com
Nieman Displays: www.niemandisplays.com
Happ Controls: www.happcontrols
Betson Imperial: www.betson.com
Kortek: www.kortek.co.kr
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I use a 27" TV with S-video. It seems great to me. Remember when these games where made. Don't go with to good of a picture. I've played MAME on a lcd. The TV is so damn good, the game looks worse.
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I have tried and have all three.
27" TV - Windows text is virtually unreadable. Very blurry. Games play ok and the picture quality is ok.
LCD monitor - Very crisp and clear. I have a 6ms refresh monitor and there was no blur. Picture quality from the plastic LCD screen just doesn't feel right for an arcade game.
19" Wells Gardner D9500 monitor - Very authentic feel. Windows text is mostly visible and legible though I wouldn't recommend it for a long term PC monitor. I used all three with a VGA ARCADE card and was very happy with the results on this one. If you want a true arcade feel. Go with a arcade monitor. Multisync one though. You'll get more bang for your buck.
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You will need an ArcadeVGA if you want to run at arcade resolutions natively (15Khz)
Is it that different when you run the same game with a normal video card? Or doesn't it run at all?
I'm still a bit confused about the whole 15Khz thing :S
What games run in 15Khz anyway? Just the older games like pacman, donkey kong, etc.?
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as a rough guess I would say 90% of the games run at 15khz
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Is it that different when you run the same game with a normal video card? Or doesn't it run at all?
You can try running a program like POWERSTRIP with your regular video card if you plan to use an authentic arcade monitor to force the 15khz signal.
But not all video cards are supported, so it may not work depending on what you have.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=43728.0 (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=43728.0)
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I'd go with a multisync monitor over S-video. To throw one more variable in the mix for you ( :banghead: ), you might be happy with a TV using component in. I'm using a 27" Toshiba, the image is great in games, and acceptable in Windows... other than the fact that its sideways since it's a vert cab! :)
Pics aren't too clear, but can at least give you some basis for comparison. I started with S-video on this same TV. It was OK, but its much better in component. Also using a tinted bezel here, which I think helps the image regardless of type of display you're using.
(http://tok.home.comcast.net/vertdemo/winstartup1.jpg)
(http://tok.home.comcast.net/vertdemo/dk640x4326.jpg)
(http://tok.home.comcast.net/dynamo/bezeldonpachi1.jpg)
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If you have the money, go arcade monitor or multisync. Here are some comparison pics:
TV/S-Video (http://hofle.com/mame/robotron_ddraw.JPG)
Arcade Monitor (http://hofle.com/mame/robotron-arcademonitor-ddraw3.JPG)
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Well, I settled with a 27" Samsung set with component inputs. I'll get a DVI --> Component adapter and just be happy with that. At the cost, I couldn't go for the monitor. Maybe somewhere down the line I'll make a cab with an authentic monitor...just not yet.
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If you have the money, go arcade monitor or multisync. Here are some comparison pics:
TV/S-Video (http://hofle.com/mame/robotron_ddraw.JPG)
Arcade Monitor (http://hofle.com/mame/robotron-arcademonitor-ddraw3.JPG)
Arcade monitor looks nice :D
It has been a long time since I've played on a real arcade monitor so I can't really remember how it looked.
There is just one concern on my mind; When I look at my TV from a close distance, it hurts my eyes and gives me a headache when I do that for too long.
A PC monitor doesn't do that at all.
Is an arcade monitor also hard on the eyes? Or is it less?
(Sorry for going a bit offtopic ^^; )
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I think it's more like a PC monitor in that regard. The TV tends to have more flicker to it than the arcade monitor running at a game's native resolution. So less eye strain IMO.
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That S-Video connection looks double crappy for some reason. Colors are all wrong, and wicked moire pattern in it. Component on my TV looks better than S-Video, but my S-Video didn't look near as bad as that.
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S-Video can be pretty good....
This is my tv with S-Video from a GeForce 6600GT
Resolution isn't quite right, but that can be fixed in a minute :)
(http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/5136/dsc01247kv3.th.jpg) (http://img478.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01247kv3.jpg)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4828/dsc01245ua2.th.jpg) (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01245ua2.jpg)
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2777/dsc01249um9.th.jpg) (http://img341.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01249um9.jpg)
With the right resolution :)
(http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8843/dsc01251kw2.th.jpg) (http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01251kw2.jpg)
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Wow Loki, that looks pretty dang nice.
I'm pretty confident now that my component connection (through a DVI adapter) coming out of my Radeon 9800 should look great.
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Wow Loki, that looks pretty dang nice.
I'm pretty confident now that my component connection (through a DVI adapter) coming out of my Radeon 9800 should look great.
His pictures look more like what I see with my S-Video connection (Toshiba 27"). Compared to component, the blacks are not quite as dark and there is also a slight "ghosting" affect along the edge of the text, but I could have lived with it if I had to.
Seeing the better image of the component input made me stick with the extra issues of adjusting the resolution and pic size to get it working.
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Loki can you take a picture of the Robotron high score screen for comparison? I use that because it really shows the weaknesses well. Fighter games always seems to look pretty good in pictures.
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Sure, I'll make some today :)
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There you go :)
It looks better irl though :)
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9972/dsc01263qx3.th.jpg) (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01263qx3.jpg)
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8720/dsc01262xw0.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01262xw0.jpg)
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The "ghosting" around text and images is one thing you'll never be able to get rid of, unless you go VGA.
To see this difference elsewhere, google for "VGA console". Lots of information out there now how a certain video game console looks in VGA in comparison on native connection (e.g. SNES, Dreamcast, Neo Geo, etc).
The only time you won't notice this ghosting is with an HD input. But none of our source are in HD resolution (nor the TV's) :)
The problem is not the tube in the TV, but all the stuff the signal has to go through the TV/PC before it gets to the tube. Way too much noise being added in the signal conversions.
An Arcade Monitor looks much better simply because it's simpler. It doesn't have any signal converters, tuners. It's a simple signal amplifier, and that's it!
I'm surprised that Arcade Monitors aren't cheaper than TV's! I guess volume discount & competition doesn't apply and hence we end up paying more.