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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: ddoyle1996 on March 10, 2003, 12:18:17 pm

Title: How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: ddoyle1996 on March 10, 2003, 12:18:17 pm

The ultimarc website says you rotate the E-stik's switch plate 45 degrees so you can play games like Qbert.  It looks like there are no screws through the control panel holding the joystick in place.  Does anybody know how the e-stik's switch plate rotates?   Is it something you can do from the outside of the cabinet, or do you need access to the back of the control panel?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: MinerAl on March 10, 2003, 02:21:54 pm

You have to open your CP to get to the turning 4/8 way restrictor.  It's not really designed to change from the outside of the cabinet.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Smittydc on March 10, 2003, 04:00:26 pm

He's asking about rotating the whole joystick, not the restrictor plate.  The e-stick is held in place with one big nut on the bottom (no screws, like buttons), so to rotate it 45 degrees, you just grab the base on the top and turn it.  Works fine as long as you don't have it tightened down too hard.

If you plan on doing this, make sure your buttons on your CP aren't too close to the stick, or they'll get in the way when you try to rotate it.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: jdjuggler on March 10, 2003, 04:12:52 pm

So, the stick will rotate to 45 degrees by turning it from the top?  Does it some how lock at the 0 and 45 degree points to stay in place?
Thanks.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Smittydc on March 10, 2003, 05:04:46 pm

There is a tiny nub extending down from one side of the top-base, so you could notch your CP overlay to let it fall in.  In practice, though, you just tighten the e-stick down enough so that you can turn it 45 degrees with a fair amount of force, but it won't move during game play.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Mamezilla on March 10, 2003, 05:40:14 pm

Is there someone in Canada who ordered in the past some e-sticks ?  What did it cost you at the end, with shipping, custom and duty charges ?  or does Andy have distributors in Canada ?

Also, are those sticks easy to mount on a 5/8" panel ?   Thanks

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 10, 2003, 11:39:11 pm

Quote from: Smittydc on March 10, 2003, 04:00:26 pm

He's asking about rotating the whole joystick, not the restrictor plate.  The e-stick is held in place with one big nut on the bottom (no screws, like buttons), so to rotate it 45 degrees, you just grab the base on the top and turn it.  Works fine as long as you don't have it tightened down too hard.

If you plan on doing this, make sure your buttons on your CP aren't too close to the stick, or they'll get in the way when you try to rotate it.

Uhm...you can do it that way, but it's not really intended for that use.  The stick should really be tightened down to the cp securely.  You're supposed to go under the CP to rotate the switch plate from below.  It seems to me that it would be fairly easy to make a lever attached to the switchplate, so it could be rotated from above.  I may make that a future project of mine...  You can do what you want of course, but I wouldn't recommend playing much with a loosened joystick.

And BTW, the sticks work fine with 5/8" panels as that's what I'm using (should handle anything from 1/4" to 3/4")

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: jdjuggler on March 11, 2003, 02:10:48 pm

I think we're getting mixed up here.
It appears that the restrictor plate at the bottom of the joystick changes the stick between 4-way and 8-way.
What we're trying to do is rotate the stick from a straight 4-way to a diagonal 4-way, which is the job of the switch plate (on top).  
This is a quote from ULTIMARC.COM regarding the E-Stick "Another feature: the switch-plate can be rotated 45 degrees for games such as Q-Bert!"
So, I'm guess that it was meant to be rotated from the top for 45 degree games.  I'd like to hear more from people that actually use the stick this way.
Any other thoughts?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: rampy on March 11, 2003, 02:39:16 pm

not to confuse the issue further - but I thought if you rotated the bottom restricter "half way" between 4way and 8 way you'd get the same effect... ymmv

maybe 1up could comment on that (him actually having an e-stick and all)

rampy

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Smittydc on March 11, 2003, 04:38:11 pm

jdjuggler has it right.

My main Control Panel uses 2 E-sticks.  That's how they work.  There's a dial on the bottom to switch the stick 4-way to 8-way.  

Since the entire joystick is not screwed into the panel in any way, you can then rotate the entire unit 45 degrees to play q-bert, congo bongo, etc.

1up: it's not "loose" in that it's bouncing around, it's loose in that you can turn it when you grab ahold of the top square and apply a fair amout of force.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: jdjuggler on March 11, 2003, 11:09:24 pm

One more thing...
Does the top plate rotate and stop between the two positions?  Or does it basically just turn all the way around?  In other words, do you have to line it up every time you rotate the plate to play a different type game?
Thanks.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Smittydc on March 12, 2003, 09:52:23 am

The top plate -- and we're talking about the square piece on top of your CP -- is a solid part of the e-stick (you can't remove it), so when you turn it, you are turning the whole assembly.  If I wasn't at work I'd take a couple pictures that would have made all this a lot clearer.

more to your question: you have to line it up when you turn it.  Unless you use the little nubs/notches I described above.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 12, 2003, 09:00:33 pm

I'm telling you, this is not how the E-stick is intended to be used.  You are correct that it's the switch plate that rotates, but you obviously do not understand which part the switch plate is.  It's just what it sounds like -- the PLATE that has the SWITCHES on it!!  Common sense...  ::)

I have an E-stick, and I use this function all the time.  The restrictor plate itself is mounted ON the switchplate, so you have to hold the switchplate still while you convert from 8-way to 4-way.  But the switchplate itself ALSO rotates, about, oh gosh, 45 degrees!  That is what Andy is referring to on his site.  If you don't believe me, why don't you email Andy yourself.

The E-stick is not intended to be mounted loosely, the nut should be fully tightned onto the panel.  The "nubs" on the underside of the top mounting plate are intended to KEEP the joystick from ROTATING in its mounting hole.  The whole purpose of the E-stick being built the way it is, is to make it 'E'asy to mount thru a standard 1 1/8" pushbutton hole with no extra fasteners.  This is the same principal behind the Happ Universal stick.

You can mount your stick any way you want -- no one is stopping you, but I'm telling you, this is the way it was meant to be done.

BTW, if you're going to go the way that Smittydc suggests, it might be a good idea to carve some semicircle notches in the lexan around your mounting hole for the stick.  That way, the nubs under the mounting plate can ride in these, and therefore limit the rotation to 45 degrees, so there's no guesswork.  It might not be a bad idea Smittydc, but your method could use some refinements!  ;)

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: rampy on March 12, 2003, 09:19:05 pm

Quote from: 1UP on March 12, 2003, 09:00:33 pm

I'm telling you, this is not how the E-stick is intended to be used.  You are correct it's the switch plate that rotates, but you obviously do not understand which part the switch plate is.  It's just what it sounds like -- the PLATE that has the SWITCHES on it!!  Common sense...  ::)

I'm confused.. who are you telling?  If I was that far off, I'm sorry...  I was making ASSumptions again *shrug*

rampy

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 12, 2003, 09:24:23 pm

I was mainly targeting Smittydc and jdjuggler, as they are the ones confusing truth with assumption...

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: jdjuggler on March 12, 2003, 11:25:10 pm

Hey now.. I'm just trying to learn here...  Just reading what was on Andy's site.  But, I respect everyone's input, that's why I'm here.
One more quick question, now that I understand the parts involved.
When you rotate the switch plate to a 45 degree position, does the top fascia plate turn with it?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 13, 2003, 12:20:05 am

Quote

When you rotate the switch plate to a 45 degree position, does the top fascia plate turn with it?

In a word, no.  This should explain things better:

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-parts.jpg)

Here are the parts.  There's the stick and top mounting assembly, the mounting nut and a rubber washer, and the switch plate (with switches and 4-8 way restrictor mounted.)  Now the rubber grommet is obviously there for something, and that's to provide friction to keep the mounting assembly from rotating on the panel.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtgplate.jpg)

Here we can see the two studs underneath the top mounting plate.  These would fit into...

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtghole.jpg)

Two similar sized notches in the sides of your mounting hole.  Since the studs fit into the notches, the top mounting plate lies flat on the control panel.  If your mounting plate is "floating" above the panel, you've done it wrong.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mounting.jpg)

Here you can see the basic parts fitted together, as if they were mounted on a 3/4" panel.  The arrow shows the groove that runs around the base of the mounting shaft.  This is where the switch plate is mounted.  The groove allows the switch plate to travel 45 degrees around the mounting shaft, which should be stationary when mounted to the CP.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-modesfordummies.jpg)

Here are the various modes possible with the E-stick.  Normally, you have the restrictor positioned in 8-way mode, and the switch plate is not rotated.  The second photo shows 4-way mode, with the restrictor rotated 90 degrees, blocking the diagonals.  The third photo shows 4-way diagonal mode, where the restrictor is still rotated as in the second photo, but now the switch plate is also rotated 45 degrees, causing the stick to act as a rotated 4-way.  Note that the top mounting plate is still in the same postion at all times.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtgholemod.jpg)

Now, the more I think about it, I don't think Smittydc's idea is all that bad, but I would want something more "automatic" to help locate the proper rotated joystick postion.  You could easily modify the normal mounting notches by making another set in the lexan, offset by 45 degrees, then rounding off the piece of plastic between the two.  This would ensure that the stick would not rotate more than 45 degrees before clicking into place on the other side of the rounded divider!  This method has the added advantage that the mount doesn't rely strictly on the friction of a partially-tightened nut to prevent the stick from rotating accidentally.  The only problem I could see is that the top mounting plate would eventually wear a circle into the surface of the lexan, which might not look all that pretty to the more picky among us (like me!)

Hope this clears up all the confusion!  (No confusion here though, I knew what you were all asking, but it's hard to explain unless you have the stick to play with!  ;) )

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Smittydc on March 13, 2003, 10:27:29 am

Good job explaining it 1up!  Pictures definitely help.

I still like my method better  :) if only because you don't have to dig under the panel -- but then, I only play qbert once in a while anyway, which is why I don't worry about wearing a hole in the CP overlay.

Also, thanks for the e-stick spring post a few days ago -- I need to change those.  By the time I get near the house Time Pilot high score my hands are killing me.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: jdjuggler on March 13, 2003, 02:50:11 pm

1UP - Thanks, this is great information.  The pictures were invaluable to understanding how the stick works.  And, I think many of us would like the ability to rotate the stick to a 45 degree angle from the top...  All of these comments will give us some great ideas toward figuring out a "nice" way of rotating this stick...  I think I'll be ordering one soon.
Thanks

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: mcleanjoel on March 13, 2003, 06:41:07 pm

I know the Happ Universal looks the same but can anyone verify that it has the same functionality as the E-Stick for rotating the switchplate 45 degrees?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: AndyWarne on March 14, 2003, 06:50:57 am

Actually both methods are OK.
either you can rotate the entire stick 45 degrees, or rotate the switch plate.
The design of the stick is that the switch-plate is a bayonet fittlng on the body. It is placed on and turned to lock into place. It needs considerable force to lock properly (I think some people don't turn it hard enough). But you can still use the stick without locking it all the way round. Although this is not the design intention, it seems quite secure.
I don't think that a commercial user of these sticks would leave the switch plate not fully locked, but for home usage it seems OK and makes Q-Bert switching easy.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: ddoyle1996 on March 14, 2003, 09:49:18 am

Thanks to everybody who helped out here.  I went ahead and ordered a couple of e-stiks.  

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Mamezilla on March 14, 2003, 04:55:48 pm

Quote from: mcleanjoel on March 13, 2003, 06:41:07 pm

I know the Happ Universal looks the same but can anyone verify that it has the same functionality as the E-Stick for rotating the switchplate 45 degrees?

Does anyone have the answer to that ?  Thanks.  

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: PoDunkMoFo on March 15, 2003, 12:27:43 am

Hey 1-up can the stick be broken down to just the shaft and handle?  In other words could a ball top shaft be fabricated or is the shaft non removable?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Mamezilla on March 15, 2003, 10:51:58 pm

Quote from: mcleanjoel on March 13, 2003, 06:41:07 pm

I know the Happ Universal looks the same but can anyone verify that it has the same functionality as the E-Stick for rotating the switchplate 45 degrees?

Quote from: BuhBuh-Ray on March 14, 2003, 04:55:48 pm

Does anyone have the answer to that ?  Thanks.  

Does anyone have that information ?  Both Happ's universal joystick and Ultimarc's e-stick looks the same, but I've searched everywhere (I think...) and  cannot find an answer.  Does Happ's universal joystick's switch plate can also rotate 45 degrees ?

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 15, 2003, 11:44:28 pm

Quote from: PoDunkMoFo on March 15, 2003, 12:27:43 am

Hey 1-up can the stick be broken down to just the shaft and handle?  In other words could a ball top shaft be fabricated or is the shaft non removable?

Yes, the stick is secured by an e-ring much like those on Happ joysticks.  You can remove the stick easily for replacing the very rigid spring with a looser one, for example (which I have done and recommend highly -- read this thread for more info (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5357;start=0)!)

Quote

Does anyone have that information ?  Both Happ's universal joystick and Ultimarc's e-stick looks the same, but I've searched everywhere (I think...) and  cannot find an answer.  Does Happ's universal joystick's switch plate can also rotate 45 degrees ?

I can't personally verify that, but I've been told that the Universal stick does have the same rotating switchplate feature, as well as the 4-8 way restrictor plate, just like the e-stick.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Mamezilla on March 16, 2003, 12:06:54 pm

Quote from: 1UP on March 15, 2003, 11:44:28 pm

Quote from: PoDunkMoFo on March 15, 2003, 12:27:43 am

Hey 1-up can the stick be broken down to just the shaft and handle?  In other words could a ball top shaft be fabricated or is the shaft non removable?

Yes, the stick is secured by an e-ring much like those on Happ joysticks.  You can remove the stick easily for replacing the very rigid spring with a looser one, for example (which I have done and recommend highly -- read this thread for more info (http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5357;start=0)!)

Quote

Does anyone have that information ?  Both Happ's universal joystick and Ultimarc's e-stick looks the same, but I've searched everywhere (I think...) and  cannot find an answer.  Does Happ's universal joystick's switch plate can also rotate 45 degrees ?

I can't personally verify that, but I've been told that the Universal stick does have the same rotating switchplate feature, as well as the 4-8 way restrictor plate, just like the e-stick.

Thank you

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: Mamezilla on March 17, 2003, 05:21:33 pm

I e-mailed directly Happ and ask them if the switch plate on their universal joystick can rotate 45 degrees.  Here's their reply:

Quote

The universal does have a disk that can be rotated to change the JS from 4 way to 8 way. There are only two settings. With 8 way you can go on the diagonals. With 4 way you can not.
Thanks,

So it looks like only Andy's e-sticks can do that.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: 1UP on March 17, 2003, 07:14:02 pm

Well, i think it was actually Andy who told me the Universal had the same rotating plate.  Either that or someone else that had one on BYOAC.  Just look at the exploded view on the Happ site -- all the same parts are there...

But people seem to get confused between the rotating restrictor, and the rotating switchplate.  Just read above!  ;D  I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Happ got confused too.  But the 2 sticks are almost identical, and if the switchplate doesn't rotate, you can always rotate the whole thing like Smittydc...

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: saint on July 30, 2003, 12:43:40 am

Hey 1UP :)

As Andy said above,

"The design of the stick is that the switch-plate is a bayonet fittlng on the body. It is placed on and turned to lock into place. It needs considerable force to lock properly (I think some people don't turn it hard enough). But you can still use the stick without locking it all the way round. Although this is not the design intention, it seems quite secure."

I checked mine, which I had been rotating 45 degrees as you have pictured and sure enough I didn't have mine snapped into place properly.  Once I did so, it is impossible to rotate the switch-plate without rotating the base of the joystick as well.  It took considerable force to unlock the bayonet fitting from the body.

When I tested the E-Stik "loosely fitted" for easy 45 degree turning, I was not able to get it to reliably rotate. I tried varying degrees of pressure on the nut that tightens it down to the CP without finding a good balance.

I was wondering if your experiences are similar or if you've done any additional playing with it once Andy clarified it's intended (locked down) operation?

--- saint

Quote from: 1UP on March 13, 2003, 12:20:05 am

Quote

When you rotate the switch plate to a 45 degree position, does the top fascia plate turn with it?

In a word, no.  This should explain things better:

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-parts.jpg)

Here are the parts.  There's the stick and top mounting assembly, the mounting nut and a rubber washer, and the switch plate (with switches and 4-8 way restrictor mounted.)  Now the rubber grommet is obviously there for something, and that's to provide friction to keep the mounting assembly from rotating on the panel.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtgplate.jpg)

Here we can see the two studs underneath the top mounting plate.  These would fit into...

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtghole.jpg)

Two similar sized notches in the sides of your mounting hole.  Since the studs fit into the notches, the top mounting plate lies flat on the control panel.  If your mounting plate is "floating" above the panel, you've done it wrong.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mounting.jpg)

Here you can see the basic parts fitted together, as if they were mounted on a 3/4" panel.  The arrow shows the groove that runs around the base of the mounting shaft.  This is where the switch plate is mounted.  The groove allows the switch plate to travel 45 degrees around the mounting shaft, which should be stationary when mounted to the CP.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-modesfordummies.jpg)

Here are the various modes possible with the E-stick.  Normally, you have the restrictor positioned in 8-way mode, and the switch plate is not rotated.  The second photo shows 4-way mode, with the restrictor rotated 90 degrees, blocking the diagonals.  The third photo shows 4-way diagonal mode, where the restrictor is still rotated as in the second photo, but now the switch plate is also rotated 45 degrees, causing the stick to act as a rotated 4-way.  Note that the top mounting plate is still in the same postion at all times.

(http://1uparcade.hypermart.net/images/estick-mtgholemod.jpg)

Now, the more I think about it, I don't think Smittydc's idea is all that bad, but I would want something more "automatic" to help locate the proper rotated joystick postion.  You could easily modify the normal mounting notches by making another set in the lexan, offset by 45 degrees, then rounding off the piece of plastic between the two.  This would ensure that the stick would not rotate more than 45 degrees before clicking into place on the other side of the rounded divider!  This method has the added advantage that the mount doesn't rely strictly on the friction of a partially-tightened nut to prevent the stick from rotating accidentally.  The only problem I could see is that the top mounting plate would eventually wear a circle into the surface of the lexan, which might not look all that pretty to the more picky among us (like me!)

Hope this clears up all the confusion!  (No confusion here though, I knew what you were all asking, but it's hard to explain unless you have the stick to play with!  ;) )

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: AndyWarne on July 30, 2003, 06:46:19 am

It's amazing on this site how a thread can grow, in just one day!

This subject has been discussed several times before, which probably indicates that the document page on our site is not adequate. One of my "things to do" is put together a page on joystick installation covering all of the ones we sell. I will get around to it sometime! In fact, 1UP, your pictures are so useful can I use them?
Actually both methods of 45 deg rotation work, either the whole stick or the switch plate only. The design of the stick was originally intended such that the switch plate should be locked round hard so that it is square with the top plate, but it is a nice "accidental" feature that it holds fast when set to 45 deg. It's probably true to say that a commercial cabinet would not use the stick with the switch plate half-rotated though, as in theory it could come loose but in practice it seems secure enough.
The 4-8 way round plate is another issue of course. Happ do sell a similar stick but on theirs the plate needs to have 4 screws undone to rotate it.

Title: Re:How does Ultimarc E-stik rotate?
Post by: shmokes on July 30, 2003, 01:35:18 pm

I like that last pic, how blue ghost is apalled that you are mutilating your control panel that way.  Pac-man thinks it's kind of funny.