Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: RandyT on April 24, 2006, 10:31:16 am
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For those who have not been following this, a little background info is in order.
The GP-Wiz49 interfaces we offer, coupled with a Midway
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I'm very interested i n this development, as I've never had too much trouble with the centering action off the joysticks, but certainly several guests have complained that the action is too stiff or something like that. Definitely a light spring would be an improvement. Thanks for the attention, RandyT, still loving my 49-way setup.
BTW, do the replacement dust washers you sell fit around the versa-49 replacement shafts perfectly? I can't find the shaft diameters for the versa-49 on the website.
Cheers,
KenToad
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I sent Chris an e-mail. I hope they will follow through.
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I want to send an email, but I also don't feel like I have a valid complaint. They could be better, but I don't have any experience yet with the alternative grommets.
Cheers,
KenToad
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I want to send an email, but I also don't feel like I have a valid complaint. They could be better, but I don't have any experience yet with the alternative grommets.
Cheers,
KenToad
Just tell him you have heard that they might redesign the grommet and you are all for that. The 49-way is a great option for BYOAC'ers and you would like to see the stick be as good as possible.
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I want to send an email, but I also don't feel like I have a valid complaint. They could be better, but I don't have any experience yet with the alternative grommets.
It also wouldn't hurt to mention the "stiffness" complaints your friends have had. This too is an issue with the current grommets.
RandyT
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Dear Happ Controls-
My friends are complaining that my stick is too stiff when they play with it. Can you help me soften my stick for my friends?
Sincerely,
KenToad
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Thanks a bunch, Kremmit.
Now where is that damn "send" button. :laugh:
Cheers,
KenToad
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Dear Happ Controls-
My friends are complaining that my stick is too stiff when they play with it. Can you help me soften my stick for my friends?
Sincerely,
KenToad
LMAO
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I sent a note, and got the following in reply:
Thanks for contacting Happ. I have been dealing with Randy regarding the 49 way J/S. From a Purchasing view, the components used are per our drawing & BOM. The problem I am running into is what the joystick was originally designed for and what you are currently using it for. We realize that the original MWY design worked well for your application, however the joystick spec was revised per the OEM and based on their application. In order to do a design change we will need to have a commitment of 500-1000 joysticks per year.
Thanks!
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Am I reading this correctly that he is stating that the OEM (Midway) revised their joystick design to use a centering grommet with these properties on purpose? Is rapid and accurate centering an undesirable and/or unimportant trait for a joystick used on NFL Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, etc. Or for that matter, on any joystick?
BTW, don't let this response deter you from writing. If you paid your money for the things and you feel they don't behave like a good joystick should, it's your right to let them know about it. The main excuse thus far has been "lack of supporting data", so it's important to give them some, regardless of the response. If you are happy with them the way they are, you should let them know that as well.
This apparent reluctance to address such an obvious issue puzzles me, especially when fixing it would only boost their sales of the item. It's not as though we are asking for a "ball-top", we are only asking that they function at the level of the original Midway units, whose name they bear.
As stated previously, I have a solution through modification. It has been tested and works well, but it will place these otherwise excellent controls even further out of reach of the average builder due to the extra cost.
RandyT
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Ok, it looks like I was given some questionable info in an attempt at appeasement. The full story, as it was finally told to me, is as follows:
A company placed a large order for 49-way units based on their own specifications. These specifications apparently had little, if anything, to do with reproducing the feel of the original Midway 49-way joystick. The units were re-designed by HAPP for that company, using the original Midway design as a foundation, but due to manufacturing restrictions much was changed outside of physical footprint and electrical operation. The modified design was accepted by the company, and put into use.
As anyone who has dealt with a situation like this knows, the politics involved with something like this can be more than a little restrictive. Large orders often come at the expense of agreements to provide replacement parts over a period of time, as well as designs that are set in stone for that period. This situation appears to be no exception.
So it looks like the final word on this one is that the HAPP-49 is exactly that. For our uses, it will never live up to the Midway original without a $12,000 - $25,000 investment in a "special version" engineered to our specifications (pre-orders anyone? :laugh2:)
Fortunately, there are some options I will be exploring, that will make way for an improved 49-way which will rival the original Midway in both operation and appearance. It will come at a cost, but what doesn't in this hobby? ;)
In the meantime, I'll make replacement grommets available for $9.95 to those who have purchased their stick from GGG, and $12.95 each to those who purchased elsewhere. The parts aren't cheap and there is a fair amount of labor involved in modifying them to work with the HAPP units. I hate to do it this way, but I can't take responsibility for the design decisions of another company, or the sales from other vendors. .
There's probably not much point in continuing to express your opinions to Chris. Those of you who did have my thanks even though, unbeknownst to me, it was a doomed effort.
Sorry to have wasted your time with this.
RandyT
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You could sell 25 at 1k a piece. :P
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I don't think you need to apologize, Randy. You've done an excellent job addressing this issue, imo.
Will the replacement grommets go up on the site for sale or should we just PM you? I want two.
Cheers,
KenToad
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I would also like to take two as well.
I am experiencing the issue with slow centering and it effects 8 ways game play. In Rolling Thunder I can almost never get him to stop moving which makes it tedious to get into those doors.
Thanks for your efforts on this Randy!
Rick
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I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but instead of nearly everyone needing a new grommet wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to re-program the modes on the GP-Wiz49 to ignore the inner-most grid? I know this wouldn't take care of the 49-way mode, but it could "fix" the 2-way, 4-way, and 8-way modes. It would require a bit more throw to activate, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Any thoughts? Would this require the chip on the GP-Wiz49 to be replaced or can this be done in the software?
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I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but instead of nearly everyone needing a new grommet wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to re-program the modes on the GP-Wiz49 to ignore the inner-most grid? I know this wouldn't take care of the 49-way mode, but it could "fix" the 2-way, 4-way, and 8-way modes. It would require a bit more throw to activate, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Any thoughts? Would this require the chip on the GP-Wiz49 to be replaced or can this be done in the software?
Not simpler. It would require new chip and would also alter the dynamic of the 4-way mode. One of the things most folks like about leaf joysticks is the nearly instant reaction time of the switches, with a throw that continues on past that point. Making a larger dead zone is a step in the opposite direction.
Trust me, a new grommet will do so much more than just correct the slow return to center. The stick will move smoother and with less effort as well.
I can't even touch an unmodified one now that I have experienced the difference. It's really that much better.
RandyT
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Oh well, worth throwing it out there at least to try to save $40 since I'll be in for 4 grommets. Thanks for the quick answer!
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Replacement grommets are now available at the store for those who might be interested.
Thanks,
RandyT
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Randy,
I noticed on your site that there is a note that you will soon be offering your own proprietary 49 way stick for sale. Any idea of the release date?
As an early adopter of your Spinner and LED Trackball, you might say that I'm quite a fan of your products. I'd much rather wait for your new product than modify a Happs.
Now all I have to do is build my CAB! :dizzy:
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Crap, I just bought my 49 ways. What do I do? :'(
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Crap, I just bought my 49 ways. What do I do?
I'd buy Randy's grommet! Hey, that sounds funny... :o
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Crap, I just bought my 49 ways. What do I do? :'(
Play with them first and see if you like the way they feel. If not, order the grommets.
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I noticed on your site that there is a note that you will soon be offering your own proprietary 49 way stick for sale. Any idea of the release date?
It'll still have a number of the HAPP / Midway parts in it, so the only real proprietary parts will be the joystick, centering grommet and the parts that interact with the optical actuators. But it will definitely look and feel like a different stick.
I have about 2k worth of parts on order for these. As soon as they arrive, they will be assembled and made available. I'm afraid that's all I can offer at the moment as my machinist can be a little ...ummm... well, "not fast" :banghead: But I have stressed how important timelines are on this one, and if he can't do it I will be finding someone who can.
RandyT
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Awesome, now I'm glad I waited. Are there any chances you might be offering alternative or swapable shafts/sticks with this 49 way? Say, ohhhh, a Tron or tank-style handle with trigger and thumb buttons? 8)
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I installed RandyT's new grommets and I am incredibly satisfied with the smoother, more springier feel that they provide.
I just played Donkey Kong and Mario stopped on a dime, never once skipped even a step out of my control.
I'm so happy now and looking forward to my next party and the reviews of my guests (i.e. if they make no comments and just fully enjoy the games).
Glad RandyT didn't have these installed for the original Retroblast review I did, or I wouldn't have had anything to criticize. ;)
Cheers,
KenToad
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I just installed the new Grommet's and these things are fantastick. I have been dealing with the stiff movement for about a year now and this is so cool. If you have the 49-way stick you need to get these new grommet's.
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I'm getting ready to order parts for my cab. I'd like to go the 49 way stick route. Should I get the Happ 49 way plus Randy's grommet or should I hold off on my parts acquisition until Randy gets his own GGG brand stick up and running?
Thanks
Mike
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This may sound odd, but how do I know which version I have? I purchased my 49 back in January from an ebay seller. I