Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Ayrk on April 24, 2006, 10:15:45 am
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Hello,
Recently there was a thread asking about a listing of all of the different moves in all of the fighting games. Since I needed one as well and there is no one compiled source I decided to make one.
A WHOLE lot of typing later I've finished my list. My plans are to sell it as a PDF and also as a paperback through lulu.
So my question to the group is, am I missing any games? My rule-of-thumb was 1996 and earlier, playable on a MAME cab.
So here is my list, am I missing any?
Art of Fighting
Art of Fighting 2
Blood storm
DarkStalkers
Fatal Fury
Fatal Fury Special
Fatal Fury 2
Fatal Fury 3
Real Bout Fatal Fury
Real Bout Fatal Fury Special
Karate Champ
Killer Instinct
Killer Instinct 2
King of Fighters '94
King of Fighters '95
King of Fighters '96
Knuckle Heads
Marvel Super Heroes
Marvel vs. Capcom
Marvel vs. Street Fighter
Mortal Kombat
Mortal Kombat 3
Mortal Kombat II
Night Warriors: Darkstalkers Revenge
Primal Rage
Samauri Showdown
Samauri Showdown II
Samauri Showdown III
Samauri Showdown IV
Saturday Night Slam Masters
Street Fighter
Street Fighter II World
Street Fighter II Champion
Street Fighter II Hyper
Super Street Fighter II Turbo
Super Street Fighter II
Street Fighter the Movie
Street Fighter Alpha
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Vampire Savior: The World of Darkness
WWF Wrestlemania
Xmen Children of the Atom
Xmen vs. Street Fighter
Thanks
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What about Garou, Mark of the Wolves? Better make that look pretty if you are going to sell it, lets see a sample page or something!
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That one is from 1999, is it playable?
I'll have sample pages up, not to worry, plus it won't cost very much (approx $10).
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Why are you charging money for the PDF?
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Why are you charging money for the PDF?
The simple reason is that it took a significant amount of work to compile, type, layout, and proof the information.
I thought that the PDF would be a nice option since it would be cheaper than a print book and the user could print just the games they were interested in.
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Wouldn't you need permission for the copy right holders to charge for it?
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I believe he would. That's why all of the movelists on gamefaqs are FREE. I can appreciate the idea of trying to get some money out of compiling a big book of moveslists, but I know I wouldn't pay for one. I mean, there are a ton of really good, in depth, faqs on gamefaqs and other websites that I can't recall at the moment (because my favorite is gamefaqs).
But regarding mame and garou. As of mame .104 I've been able to play everything up to king of fighters 2003. I haven't tried SVC chaos, or samurai showdown 5 yet so they may not work. But, if kof2k3 is any indication, anything that is neo geo is probably playable at this point in mame.
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Wouldn't you need permission for the copy right holders to charge for it?
yes, unless it was all text, in which case he may be ok, not sure about that though.
If I were even to consider buying something like this, however, it'd have to be appealing and laid out nicely, more than likely with pictures and graphics. This means you would definitely need permission.
I'm also just not really into charging for stuff like this, but that's your perogative, although it's likely illegal. And the first sale you make could potentially be your last, seeing as the pdf is simple to forward to others. I realize that it took you a long time, but a lot of the free information on this site took a long time to compile, and it is free. Just something to think about.
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I'm also just not really into charging for stuff like this, but that's your perogative, although it's likely illegal. And the first sale you make could potentially be your last, seeing as the pdf is simple to forward to others. I realize that it took you a long time, but a lot of the free information on this site took a long time to compile, and it is free. Just something to think about.
Not to mention the emulator that most people are undoubtedly using to play all these games (MAME) is free/open source to begin with (and countless more hours of work were put into that). That's one of the best things about this 'scene' to me -- the large number of people who contribute stuff like this to it for the betterment of all, and not for money. Just my opinion though.
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As for the question of copyright, there is no art in the book so there is no violation.
It seems though that I overestimated the usefulness of something like this.
Oh well, no big deal.
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I don't know about the legalities- seems like you can compile info about how to play a game withoug violating any copyrights, as long as you don't use any copyrighted art or screenshots.
As to whether or not you can charge for it, well, everybody here always wants everything to be free. Me included. ;) But Saint charges for his book, and nobody complains about that, even though all the info in it is available here for free- the money is for the labor that goes into putting the book together, and for the convenience of having all that info in one easy-to-use reference volume. You might not sell many copies here, but that doesn't mean that kids on fighting game sites wouldn't cough up a few bucks. I'd definately go with a nice, cheap .pdf or ebook, though. I can imagine somebody coughing up $2.00 via paypal and feeling good about doing it the right way, but if you're trying to charge $10, they're just gonna pirate it instead.
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I'd love to see a sample page. Have been thinking of creating a moves list book, as well. A lot of my friends don't know the moves for many of the best games and only know a few from select games. If the booklet was cool enough, those fighting games would probably get played more often.
Been thinking of it for a while, but I'm too lazy to do it, it seems.
Anyway, congrats if you have figured out a nice, original layout. Post a sample to get us all drooling, plz.
Cheers,
KenToad
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I don't know about the legalities- seems like you can compile info about how to play a game withoug violating any copyrights, as long as you don't use any copyrighted art or screenshots.
As to whether or not you can charge for it, well, everybody here always wants everything to be free. Me included. ;) But Saint charges for his book, and nobody complains about that, even though all the info in it is available here for free- the money is for the labor that goes into putting the book together, and for the convenience of having all that info in one easy-to-use reference volume. You might not sell many copies here, but that doesn't mean that kids on fighting game sites wouldn't cough up a few bucks. I'd definately go with a nice, cheap .pdf or ebook, though. I can imagine somebody coughing up $2.00 via paypal and feeling good about doing it the right way, but if you're trying to charge $10, they're just gonna pirate it instead.
The ~$10 price would be for a printed book, it is a rough estimate but we are talking a POD book at around 100 pages. PDF would of course be cheaper but until I'm done laying it out I won't know what to charge.
I was a little surprised at the reaction I got since in the past people here have thought it was a good idea. I'll finish laying it out and figure out where to go from there.
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By all means charge for it. After all this is AMERICA the land of golden opportunity. You probably won't make a bunch of money off of it but you should be able to recoop your costs.
You are putting your time and effort into it, even with the PDF version, so as long as people feel it has value they will be willing to pay for it.
If it has a good layout and is easily understood I will consider it.
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Mark of the Wolves, Samurai Shodown V and SVC Chaos are all playable in MAME. Perfect too from what I can tell. If I remember correctly, I think Fallen Angels was playable too.
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I think it's a good idea and I would consider paying for something like that. My biggest concern is games that are missing.
I think you're going to have to be a little selective, though. There were a ton of crappy SFII clones flooding the market. I wouldn't guess there are a lot of people playing Fighter's History. Some games were crummy clones but have a following. Time Killers, for example, might be good to include (especially since you already have Bloodstorm on there).
As mentioned, any Neo-Geo fighter (which is a lot) should play fine in MAME. Garou - Mark of the Wolves, Rage of the Dragons, Newer KOF games, Waku Waku 7, and Kizuna Encounter are all excellent games. Also missing the World Heroes games which were quite popular.
Also, Playstation-based hardware will run fine on newer systems using either MAME or Zinc. This will include Tekken 1-3, Soul Edge, Soul Calibur 1, Battle Arena Toshinden, Star Gladiator, Street Fighter EX and more.
Don't forget Cyberbots and Pocket fighter either.
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I think the layout is going to be a very important factor and could be a real edge over a gamefaqs printout. It needs to be a clean, organized layout that can be accessed quickly instead of having to dig through pages of straight text. If it could be something similar to the instruction card layouts (minus character art obviously), it could be very useful.
Does anyone know if there are fonts that include arrows and icons (such as a fist) for this purpose? I'd started making a font like this a while back, but never finished.
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Don't forget:
Super Jem Fighter Mini-Mix!!
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Also, Playstation-based hardware will run fine on newer systems using either MAME or Zinc. This will include Tekken 1-3, Soul Edge, Soul Calibur 1, Battle Arena Toshinden, Star Gladiator, Street Fighter EX and more.
Did they get Tekken 1-3, Soul Edge and Soul Calibur 1 working correctly with the newest version of mame? I'm running v.99 and there are still a ton of graphical bugs that make them unplayable.
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It probably won't hurt a thing to leave in games that aren't 100% yet. Sooner or later, they will be, and you'll already be up-to-date.
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It seems I made too many assumptions. I've seen some PS-based games running smoothly and assumed that at least the Namco games were too. I'd say it's only a matter of time though.
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I'm furiously adding 30+ games to the list.
Oi the typing.
Thanks for the recomendations.
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Any word on the ETA of this document?
If the price were under $10 for a PDF, I'd strongly consider purchasing it.
Just a question, how can you effectively demonstrate the moves without art work (ie: the copyright issue) You know, a picture is worth a 1000 words.
Let us know how it's going, I'm interested.
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http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=54955.msg538923#msg538923
It's currently available, see above thread for purchasing information and comment.
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It seems that someone is always trying to make money off arcade builders. It's not the best group of guys to try to get money from.
I like the idea of this booklet. It seems the way it goes is there is a need for something (like a frontend) and someone develops a solution (like Mamewah, Mala, etc) and shares the solution. Thats what enthusiasts do with each other.
I won't buy this book. I am only interested in about half a dozen different fighting games. I'll just print off the manuals for those few games, if I wanted it.
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Command.dat has most of the major fighting games in its game list. It shouldn't be too hard to add the ones that aren't in it if needs be. Command.dat seems like a superior option to a booklet for me as you can view it right on screen with the right software. If you are going dual screen with your cab to have a Johnny 5 controls list on screen I think that it can also be used to view command.dat as well, although I am not sure how you would go about this. This is possibly a question for HowardC.