Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: jonnyv100 on April 23, 2006, 04:39:10 pm
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I am using the Heavy 8 way Happs Joystick with Tron/Mame and whe I get to the lightcycle stage, It looks like I would need more like a four way stick to play tihs stage. Anyone have any suggestions fix this?
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Anybody ever tried using a slightly smaller actuator to see if it makes it harder to hit the diagonals?
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Thanks for the suggestion however, since Tron was origianlly an 8-way, I shouldn't have to modify the 8-way to only hit the 4 switches......
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Anyone have any suggestions fix this?
It shouldn't need any fixing at all.... TRON is very specific with its inputs which were always 8 Way.... What behaviour are you experiencing that is causing you a problem??
If it's that you are getting direction blocking as a result of two switches being hit, then it is more likely a problem with the way that your key encoder is working, rather than an actual problem with your Joystick, becuase the software is actually expecting you to be using an 8 Way.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Thanks for the suggestion however, since Tron was origianlly an 8-way, I shouldn't have to modify the 8-way to only hit the 4 switches......
I know what a Tron stick is. I own a real Tron stick. You don't. You have a Happ knockoff and I was asking if anyone with a knockoff like yours had ever modified it to more closely mimic the characteristics of the real Tron stick.
So that you won't embarass yourself again trying to sound smarter than the people trying to help you, I'll fill you in on some info you are apparently unable to find in a search of the boards here:
The original Tron sticks have a 4-way diamond-shaped restrictor on the bottom made of plastic that would "give" a little to allow the diagonals to be hit if you pushed hard diagonally. That prevents the zig-zag problem with an 8-way stick in the Light Cycles phase.
What I was suggesting to you was trying to make the large 8-way actuator smaller so that it wouldn't hit the diagonals so easily. I wasn't saying to eliminate the 8-way action all together.
But, since you shouldn't have to modify anything, you can figure it out yourself.
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I am using the Heavy 8 way Happs Joystick with Tron/Mame and whe I get to the lightcycle stage, It looks like I would need more like a four way stick to play tihs stage. Anyone have any suggestions fix this?
Hiya jonnyv100,
This has come up a few times in the past. I asked this same question a few years ago. The only solution I've found unfortunately was to purchase a true Tron joystick. Even my xenophobe had this issue. As others have mentioned, there was a special restrictor on that joystick.
~telengard
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Thanks for the suggestion however, since Tron was origianlly an 8-way, I shouldn't have to modify the 8-way to only hit the 4 switches......
I know what a Tron stick is. I own a real Tron stick. You don't. You have a Happ knockoff and I was asking if anyone with a knockoff like yours had ever modified it to more closely mimic the characteristics of the real Tron stick.
So that you won't embarass yourself again trying to sound smarter than the people trying to help you, I'll fill you in on some info you are apparently unable to find in a search of the boards here:
The original Tron sticks have a 4-way diamond-shaped restrictor on the bottom made of plastic that would "give" a little to allow the diagonals to be hit if you pushed hard diagonally. That prevents the zig-zag problem with an 8-way stick in the Light Cycles phase.
What I was suggesting to you was trying to make the large 8-way actuator smaller so that it wouldn't hit the diagonals so easily. I wasn't saying to eliminate the 8-way action all together.
But, since you shouldn't have to modify anything, you can figure it out yourself.
Hear Hear!
Nice restrained answer. I don't know that I could've kept my cool like you did. Well played Mr. VP.
:cheers:
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Anybody ever tried using a slightly smaller actuator to see if it makes it harder to hit the diagonals?
I just recently finished building new restrictors for a Xeno stick, to match the original Tron one.
The holes are exactly the same size/shape/etc... but are turned 45 degrees.
You can use the existing restrictors and a Sharpie to mark the material for cutting/grinding, and then just take the material down until the size/bevel match the ones on the Xeno stick.
I built the new top restrictor out of HDPE, vs. the urethane that the original is made out of.
It makes the stick feel a little less "squishy", as it rolls around the restrictor, but does allow it to function properly.
I made the new bottom restrictor out of 1/8" Lexan.
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If it's that you are getting direction blocking as a result of two switches being hit, then it is more likely a problem with the way that your key encoder is working, rather than an actual problem with your Joystick, becuase the software is actually expecting you to be using an 8 Way.
Nope. The problem is not with his encoder. This is an old problem, and well documented on the forum. As others have stated, it is due to the absence of the special restrictors, both top and bottom, which were unique to the Tron stick.
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If it's that you are getting direction blocking as a result of two switches being hit, then it is more likely a problem with the way that your key encoder is working, rather than an actual problem with your Joystick, because the software is actually expecting you to be using an 8 Way.
Nope. The problem is not with his encoder. This is an old problem, and well documented on the forum. As others have stated, it is due to the absence of the special restrictors, both top and bottom, which were unique to the Tron stick.
Thanks for the clarification Kremmit.... it is noted.
Interesting it is, as well.... I really must go buy an original TRON stick. I wasn't aware that there were any differences between the original and the Happ Suzo version. But this throws a new light on several issues I've heard about before......
MarkRVP.... That was a little bit vicious mate!! especially given that he's new here! Not at all like you... I'm guessing you were just having a bad hair day :'(
Try and chill a bit, I don't think he was questioning what he was being told, or trying to insult anybody, just not understanding the differences. I work as a Senior Maintenance Engineer for an Arcade and even I didn't know there was any difference in them.
Best Regards,
Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
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Not that my vote matters much, but I appreciated MarkVPs answer. It answered his question completely and thoroughly with a little ass kicking on the side.
Personally, sometimes I need an ass kicking...
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Mark's reply was spot-on. There have been a lot of posts on the original Tron sticks, and they are not the same as the Happ HD 8-way. Lack of restrictors, leaf switches vs. microswitches, and size of restrictors, among others.
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Anybody ever tried using a slightly smaller actuator to see if it makes it harder to hit the diagonals?
You know, I've been meaning too...
I hacked a tron-esque stick to a happ super a few years ago. Supers have that hourglass filpable actuator thinggy with the big 8-way end, and the smaller 4-way end. My plan at the time was to carefully shave, then test, then shave, then test, then shave, then test the 8-way end until it could still hit all 8 directions with effort, but usually only hit 4. It's a fantastic theory, and should work.
Then I got a girlfriend, and haven't had time for that sort of joystick for a while ;)
Once I get my hands on Fozzy's repro handles, I will fully test this theory. Even if Xiaou2 thinks I'm a moron for even trying. Shaving the actuator should work regardless of the stick type... I have some supers to try it with, so I'll start there.
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"Once I get my hands on Fozzy's repro handles" :laugh2:
And here I was thinking you had a girlfriend ;D
But a most excelent idea though, what about making the restrictor out of a more flexible material (hard rubberesque type substance?) this could be formed with a tight restriction on the diagonals, so they would under normal play be 4 way, but with a little more pressure have enough "give" to make the diagonals? But I suck at that level on Tron anyway so what do I know....
Forces21
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One thing I've discovered is that you can use an 8-way actuator on a 4-way reunion base which allows you to still hit the diagonals by pushing a little harder towards the diagonals.
For anybody wanting to make a Tron stick by hacking a triggerstick to a Happ base, I would suggest hacking it to a reunion base which has diamond shape restriction and then use a larger actuator.
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"Once I get my hands on Fozzy's repro handles" :laugh2:
Potty-brain.
Mark, good info! Between Fozzy's project and us figuring out the pseudo 8-wayness of these sticks, we're well on the way :)
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Doesn't the 4-way mode in the GPWiz49 software actually allow a small diagonal range to be hit with a Happ 49 way stick? The retroblast review mentioned that if I recall. Has anyone tried this with Tron? If so, it would be REALLY nice to have a trigger/flight stick on a 49 way. Seems like this would be a great all around stick.
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Doesn't the 4-way mode in the GPWiz49 software actually allow a small diagonal range to be hit with a Happ 49 way stick? The retroblast review mentioned that if I recall. Has anyone tried this with Tron? If so, it would be REALLY nice to have a trigger/flight stick on a 49 way. Seems like this would be a great all around stick.
Yes, it does allow diagonals in 4-way mode if you push hard diagonally. I am still hoping that 1UP will eventually get the shafts made that allow a Tron handle to be used on a Happ 49-way joystick. :-\
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Should be a way to make a "TRON" setting for the 49 way so that only the 4 corner-most positions activate the corners, while the other 44 ways are up, down, left or right, whatever's closest...
That very well may already be the case. Randy?
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Should be a way to make a "TRON" setting for the 49 way so that only the 4 corner-most positions activate the corners, while the other 44 ways are up, down, left or right, whatever's closest...
That very well may already be the case. Randy?
That's the way it works. ;) Normal 4-way play pretty much never takes you to those far corners, so they have been activated for this type of use and incorporated into the 4-way mode.
RandyT
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And anticipating that is yet another reason you, Randy, rock. :applaud:
I'm starting a new thread, to ask you more about this.
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For anybody wanting to make a Tron stick by hacking a triggerstick to a Happ base, I would suggest hacking it to a reunion base which has diamond shape restriction and then use a larger actuator.
I have previously suggested doing this by carefully enlarging the restriction hole and just using the regular actuator. I think your way is better- if you get my way wrong, you're hosed. If you do it your way, if the first replacement actuator you try doesn't work quite right, all you have to do is find a better actuator.
I wish 1UP would get those handle adaptors, too, but I think he's disappeared from the hobby. :'(
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Shaving the actuator should work regardless of the stick type... I have some supers to try it with, so I'll start there.
I did something very similar to this on my first attempt.
I took a Happ Ultimate, which is supposed to have a square actuator on it, and built a round actuator of the same diameter.
That kept it from hitting the diagonals unless you were dead on one.
The problem with using an 8-way stick as your starting point is that it won't guide you to the true directions.
You still get the 8-way feel to the stick.
It does make Tron playable however.
The main problem I see with shaving the actuator on a Super would be that you would be increasing the amount of dead space in the stick, making you have to move the stick farther to hit the true directions for every bit you shaved off.
Using a diamond-restricted 4-way as the starting point, and enlarging the actuator would actually tighten the stick up, and would be the preferable route to me.
For those who already have DOT/Xeno sticks, and have minimal woodworking skills, the method I described above works great.
You don't even have to be ultra-precise about it because the large diameter of the stick will smooth out small imperfections.
You just need to make sure that you get the center hole close to center on the piece.