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Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 12:11:55 pm

Title: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...UPDATED
Post by: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 12:11:55 pm: --------I Have an update to my case on the next page-------------

I need to find legitimate reasons as to why a laptop could burn out for reasons other than water damage.

I go to a university that forces us to rent laptops from them, and the laptop I got from them burnt out on me when typing a paper. Their policy is that if we didn't cause the problem, we won't be charged for any damage. The University sent my laptop to compaq to be fixed after the University technician inspected the laptop and declared it "damaged from liquid spill" I got my replacement laptop a month and a half later, and they are charging me for damages even though no liquid touched the laptop.

After much debate I had with the head of the laptop program, she admitted: "there is no evidence of a liquid spill on your laptop, but it had to be a liquid spill because thats what students do to their laptops, and there is no other reason why a laptop could burn out".
:badmood:

She told me that she would drop the charges only if I could prove to her and her technician that It was not a liquid spill...(I'm basically doomed) :banghead:

I can't prove anything since I don't have the original laptop, but I am hoping that if I put forth effort and fight her enough, I might have the charges dropped...

But I need some help, I was wondering if anyone could tell me where I can find a legitimate source that tells me why a laptop could burn out so I can use it as evidence and prove that It was not my fault. (It was the one armed man who did it) It will also be nice to have something to show to the dean in case she still says no...

Also, here is a picture of my laptop's burn out taken by the technician...maybe it will help.

thanks
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: markb on April 10, 2006, 01:00:10 pm: OMG, I would have had a field day.

1) Electrical components go 'bang!' all of the time regardless if they are wet or not. Why would you need a warranty if things never went wrong?

2) It is up to them to prove it was a liquid spill and not vice versa.

3) It is in the technicians interest to get you to pay by syaing it's your fault.

Stand your ground and refuse to pay unless they provide proof that it was your fault and remind them that compaq do make mistakes.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/28/compaq_batteries_could_still_blow/ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/28/compaq_batteries_could_still_blow/)

Good Luck
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 01:54:31 pm: Yeah, The whole system is a joke. It took me a lot of debating to get her to admit that there was no evidence of a liquid spill.

The time when I went to see the head of the laptop program was pretty funny in retrospect. I wish I had a tape recorder.

More or less it went something like this:

Lady: So you say that you DIDN'T break your laptop? I personally went over this case, and the report stated that they found evidence of a major spill all over they internal components!

Me: I never let liquid get near it, it would be impossible for a liquid spill to get on my laptop.

Lady: Let me look call my technician...[calls technician] He says you broke it.

Me: do you still have the board? Can I see the evidence of a spill?

Lady: We sent the board to compaq, I bet if I called up compaq, they would say you broke it.

Me: I'm sorry, but this is ridiculious, you charged my on the day tuition is due, and say I have to pay this fee or I can't register for classes, and you say you have evidence that I spilled all over my laptop, but you cannot show me anything?

Lady: Oh no, we keep photo documentation of everything!

Me: Can I see the photo?

Lady: Um, no....I don't have it....my technician has it....

Me: well, you just talked to him...could you please call him up again so I can see this photo?

Lady: Um...sure [retrieves photo and loads it on her computer] See, Here is the computer part you broke...This proves it.

Me: Proves what? I don't see any of this evidence of a major liquid spill...No discoloration, no ring from liquid damage.

Lady: Um, let me call my technician...[calls technician, talkes about liquid spills and such, hangs up] Well, even theough there is no evidence of a liquid spill on your laptop, it had to be a liquid spill because thats what students do to their laptops, and there is no other reason why a laptop could burn out.

Me: There are plenty of other reasons why a laptop could burn out. Just look at that photo, there is a ribbon cable port is right next to burnt out component. I am guessing that the ribbon could have slipped out and the metal on the ribbon could have easily shorted out that component.

Lady: Thats impossible.

Me: No, Its not, it's basic electronics that things short out.

Lady: but there is no ribbon in that port!

Me: thats because they had to remove it...They took out the keyboard to see the inside of the computer...the ribbon that goes there is probably from the keyboard.

Lady: Well, I don't know anything about computers (obvious) If you want to not be charged, you will have to prove to both me and my technician that you did not spill on that laptop.

Me: how can I do that without the laptop?

Lady: I don't know. I have things to do, so I cannot talk to you anymore.

Me: Fine, But I will need that photo you showed me.

Lady: Oh, uh...ok.

Thats sort of an abbriged version of it...but you get the point...
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SteveJ34 on April 10, 2006, 03:57:48 pm: What's the Compaq model number for this unit?

I would research that specific model number as well as a myriad of other historical compaq service bulletins from other laptop models that might exist, consumer reported issues, etc etc.

I would print a big stack of paper of as much info I could find about historical problems with laptops.

I would return to the said persons office and DROP IT in her in tray as the results of your research.....with a little luck maybe it could be something close to a 500 count ream.

It could always include things that may not be specifically related to a "motherboard burnout".....the idea here is items to support your position that there are a multitude of electrical component failures that for whatever reason might prove to be faulty irregardless and completely seperate of liquid damage.

That shouldn't be too hard to prove from my perspective using Compaq's own website and Google to find the materials for you.

Hell, I'll even help do the research.....see opening question above.

Chit like this gets under my skin.....dealing with assinine people that give you some lame ass reasoning because of their own foundational stupidity.

Probably a service bulletin or two out there for reports such as:

# Compaq ze5000 series: First generation laptops prone to overheating issues
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Dartful Dodger on April 10, 2006, 04:17:44 pm: It's probably a routine procedure they follow. Next time you talk to the lady at the desk and she calls the "tech guy", ask for his name and ask how it's spelled, let her see you writing down his and her name and the date and time(letting her see you check your watch before writing the time is a good touch). They'll drop it if they know you're serious, but if it's delaying your registration you should go straight to the dean, and file a formal complaint, be sure to have a list of names dates, times of the events, and the relevant facts. This way you don't forget anything.

Good luck.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: GoPodular.com on April 10, 2006, 04:42:22 pm: Quote from: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 01:54:31 pm
I wish I had a tape recorder.

I'd go back with one and revisit the topic. Then bring it to the dean.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Dartful Dodger on April 10, 2006, 05:02:33 pm: Quote from: GoPodular.com on April 10, 2006, 04:42:22 pm
Quote from: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 01:54:31 pm
I wish I had a tape recorder.

I'd go back with one and revisit the topic. Then bring it to the dean.
Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 05:22:47 pm: I have a compaq nc6230, and I am starting to collect whatever information I can get....I am starting to go to different sites and I will have a compilation of computer problem articles in no time....if anyone has any suggestions on where I can look, that would be great!

I might just throw in this article in the middle of the bunch just for fun

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/22/man_burns_penis_with_laptop/

Found it when looking on the site markb gave to me

anyway, I'll keep compiling stuff, and when I see her next, I'll bring a tape recorder
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: grantspain on April 10, 2006, 06:11:47 pm: that my friend is a classic example of psu surge or componant failure,liquid spill does not cause that exact type of damage,liquid spill would leave residue around the componant similar to a battery leak
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: xar256 on April 10, 2006, 06:44:12 pm: Quote from: grantspain on April 10, 2006, 06:11:47 pm
that my friend is a classic example of psu surge or componant failure,liquid spill does not cause that exact type of damage,liquid spill would leave residue around the componant similar to a battery leak

Agreed, power surge was my first impression when I saw the pic. For liquid to do that sort of damage you can Guarantee that there would be some visible sign of it...Liquid spills that can do that kind of damage don't disappear! This is coming from someone trained to work on IBM Laptops, among other PC's.

Xar256 ;D
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 10, 2006, 07:14:16 pm: Thanks, its good to have some real people investigate the damage rather than people who are paid to come up with excuses to charge students.

I am still having a hard time finding legitime sites that tell how this will happen...most sites I find are just surge protecter ads.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SOAPboy on April 10, 2006, 07:28:55 pm: Didnt read the whole thread.. but..

Water damage, causes corrosion (sp), and visible water damage on the PCB boards..

Its as simple as looking at it.. Without having it there, you cant prove it unless compaq proves it..
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: tep0583 on April 10, 2006, 09:03:53 pm: I was trained to work on Thinkpads as well as other laptops, too.

I don't see any obvious liquid damage in the photo, but it isn't that good of a photo, either. Without being able to examine the actual unit in question, I couldn't give you more than a guess as to what went wrong. I can tell you I've never seen that sort of dsamage from a liquid spill. (And I've probably repaired and inspected at least hundreds of laptops)

I have seen defective componates gernade like that, though.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: woodygjw on April 10, 2006, 09:28:07 pm: I don't see any water damage either. I work with handheld electronics that are used in the field. Water damage will usually look white and somewhat powdery. It almost looks like some sort of power supply ic judging the coil next to it, and I have seen them fail for no reason at all...

woody
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: DrewKaree on April 10, 2006, 11:21:04 pm: Where's school? I'm free tomorrow. I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in.

The onus is on them to prove it to you, but you are forced to pay to continue going to school, and fight to get your money back. I would raise holy hell, take note of every person's name, tell them you're going to record the conversation since they're telling you it's your responsibility to prove the case, give them reams of information pointing to problems that "just happen" regardless of "what students do", and generally make yourself a pain in her ass.

Her telling you (or making it apparent that she's trying to brush you off) she doesn't have any more time to deal with this would lead me to sit in her office and make her life a living hell.

How are you to know if that's even a picture of YOUR laptop? How is it that you can tell her reason after reason about why it COULDN'T be water damage, while all they keep telling you is that "well, that's what it's GOT to be, because that's what students do"? Where are the parts you are being charged to replace? Without the physical parts to inspect, they are unfairly charging you for something without leaving you any recourse other than to take their word for what happened. If you're expected to take THEIR word for it, why isn't the same amount of "proof" being accepted by them on your part?

There's WAY too much stuff wrong with this for me to even be able to type the message you did. I'd still either be in her office being a pain in the ass, or I'd be in the office of the next person in the superiority chain until I got someone who would guarantee me a fair hearing or solve the problem in my favor. Fair being something other than "You said this, but they said that's what it has to be, so case closed because you're only a student".
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: ha-Y-n on April 11, 2006, 05:11:35 pm: Yah, that doesn't look like a liquid short. Do you remember a power surge before the burnout?
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: deadkenndys1105 on April 11, 2006, 05:46:08 pm: My hobby other than this is fixing peoples computers and I can tell you that a liquid spill couldnt have dont anything like that unless it was a strong acid. Unless you have a super battery leaking on your laptop thats not going to happen. That was caused but the compont over heating and melting. A large power surge could have done that also. Way do they hire people for jobs like this if they dont even know the diffrence between the mouse and the keyboard or the diffrencts between a PS/2 port and a USB port.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 11, 2006, 07:02:09 pm: Quote
Yah, that doesn't look like a liquid short. Do you remember a power surge before the burnout?
I don't remember any immediate power surges, but I know probably a week before it went out, there was a power surge in one of my classes and I had my laptop plugged in. (My batteries are horrible on my laptop...even with two batteries, I can't make it through a few classes).

Quote
There's WAY too much stuff wrong with this for me to even be able to type the message you did.
The most ridiculous part was that I was charged this all on the day tuition was due, and only by chance did I notice the charge because I can look up my balance online. They charge laptop fees with the tuition, and since I did not pay up on the one day time period thay gave me without notice, I have been blacklisted, and had to go through so many hurdles to register for my classes. After talking with about four offices, including the dean, they allowed me to register...but since I was so late, I couldn't get all the classes I wanted... >:( There is no way I am going to pay after all the crap I went through...
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Dartful Dodger on April 11, 2006, 07:13:14 pm: That sux. But that's why they do it that way. They know it's more of a pain for you to fight than to just give in.

If you would have paid it without reading the bill, it would have been almost impossible to get your money back.

Do they still want you to pay for it? What did the dean say?
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 12, 2006, 12:38:48 am: Quote from: Dartful Dodger on April 11, 2006, 07:13:14 pm
That sux. But that's why they do it that way. They know it's more of a pain for you to fight than to just give in.

If you would have paid it without reading the bill, it would have been almost impossible to get your money back.

Do they still want you to pay for it? What did the dean say?

OH yeah, they still want me to pay for it....and I didn't actually get to see the dean...The Dean was sick and out for the morning...I told the secretary what was going on, and she said she would relay the message to the dean and I should go back in the afternoon. When I went back to deans office, all I got was a note ripped out of the corner of a notebook saying I could register for my classes without any problems...unfortunatly I still was't able to register for my classes, and the dean never addressed my real problem on the notebook corner note...I had to go to the advisment center then back to the tuition payment office to get everything squared away...which is funny, because it is the first place I tried...
:angry:

I can't wait until I get my evidence gathered and can slap it on the laptop program head's desk...and if that doesn't solve it, I'm going to the dean and getting more than a piece of scratch paper....and if that doesn't work...I'm seeing the chancellor...and if that doesn't work...I don't quite know...I have been recommended to tell my story to the school newspaper...they love to bash our laptop program (It isn't hard to do)
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Havok on April 12, 2006, 10:13:41 am: My company uses the Compaq\HP 6230 as it's standard desktop. They really are reliable units however, I have only seen problems with our older models. I would definitely add to the opinions that it was a power surge - however unlikely since laptops use a power brick to convert the voltage, and it is further filtered by a converter on the motherboard. However, if the power brick malfunctioned, it could conceivably send a surge on through to the motherboard.

I would stick to your guns and tell them you think it was a power surge. Ask them to PROVE it was a liquid spill - there are always telltale signs when this happens. Ask them for documentation.

Good luck!
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: RayB on April 12, 2006, 11:28:04 am: WOW, that conversation you posted is ridiculous. They're talking to you like you're some dumb 14 year old!

A. They need proof.
B. Its a rental, so the previous user could have mishandled it.
C. Bad capacitors have plagued the computer industry for the last few years now.
D. Bad power connectors have been a problem for many laptops (the connectors looses from the board, and it causes electrical arcing which eventually fries components on the motherboard).
E. The need proof.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: thebrownshow on April 12, 2006, 11:32:27 am: When you first rented this thing, what kind of paperwork did you sign? I'm sure there's a clause in there about damage, take a look and see if it says anything about having to prove that it's not your fault. Could be there's a line in there that you can highlight and shove in her face.

You've gotta love people who have jobs like this, where they take that little bit of authority they have and get off on it. What a ---smurfette---.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 12, 2006, 05:23:08 pm: There are two key clauses in my contract that say that I am screwed...

1) if they feel like charging me, even without a reason, they can...

2) they can change the contract whenever they please without even letting me know....

Under normal circumstances, only an idiot would agree to this contract...but since I could not enroll at the university without signing it...I was pretty much forced into it....I think that there are some laws that protect me against contracts like this...but I'm not about to get into some legal battle over a laptop charge...

I just knew that this laptop deal was going to kick me in the junk sooner or later...
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm: if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Q*Bert_OP on April 12, 2006, 09:51:35 pm: Hey, ICs may blow, Transistirs can blow, and ICs are nothing more than a bunch of transistors, therefore an IC like that one may blow for no reason... :blah:
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: DrewKaree on April 12, 2006, 11:56:59 pm: Quote from: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm
if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

"Dude, take this socket wrench and help me loosen the bolts on this row of seats. I'll be removing the screws holding the chalkboard up. I'ma show 'em. I'ma show 'em real good!"
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: mr.Curmudgeon on April 13, 2006, 12:30:50 am: Quote from: DrewKaree on April 10, 2006, 11:21:04 pm
Where's school? I'm free tomorrow. I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in.

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum! :blah:

;)
mrC
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: DrewKaree on April 13, 2006, 12:32:36 am: Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on April 13, 2006, 12:30:50 am
Quote from: DrewKaree on April 10, 2006, 11:21:04 pm
Where's school? I'm free tomorrow. I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in.

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum! :blah:

;)
mrC

ey3 g0tZ MAd sK3e!z y0!
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:00:55 am: Quote from: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm
if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

Now we're talking about justice! >:D >:D >:D >:D

I know a few mac labs with some G4s that don't get watched over.... >:D
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:01:32 am: Quote from: DrewKaree on April 13, 2006, 12:32:36 am
Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on April 13, 2006, 12:30:50 am
Quote from: DrewKaree on April 10, 2006, 11:21:04 pm
Where's school? I'm free tomorrow. I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in.

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum! :blah:

;)
mrC

ey3 g0tZ MAd sK3e!z y0!

You know...its not that far of a trip for you, Drew...I go to University of Wisconsin - Stout.

That would be the easy route...just bringing in a pro...I think I can handle it for now...I'll let you know if I need some backup if all else fails... :P

I always appreciate the offer though! Maybe we can go steal some overhead projectors some time... >:D
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: USSEnterprise on April 13, 2006, 04:57:10 am: by any chance, did you try to overclock it or anything like that?Was it dropped, shaken, or had booked piled on top of it. I've ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up a lot of laptops. However, the school should pay if it was the result of a power surge or a bad component
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 08:19:53 am: I'm no overclocker....Althlough I've been tempted...but the laptops are of pretty good speed already. I am paranoid of damaging things...so anytime I have to carry my laptop and books...I keep them vertical in my bag and in a foam case...Never had more than just a couple pounds on my laptop. In honesty, I treated the schools laptops like royalty...I'm really thinking that it was either power surge damage or bad component like everybody is saying.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: mr.Curmudgeon on April 13, 2006, 12:59:27 pm: Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 08:19:53 am
In honesty, I treated the schools laptops like royalty...

Ain't that the shite?

I treat possessions the same way. I'm religious about taking care of things. I keep ALL my original boxes and packaging material and I store them in it if I'm not going to use them for a while. I also have all my electronics in padded cases and I'm neurotic about handling them.

And STILL, the shite breaks ALL THE TIME! :banghead:

You just know some blockhead frat-boy will use his college issued laptop to stabilize his beer bong, and then he'll return it in perfect condition. The world just isn't fair. :cry:

mrC
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: missioncontrol on April 13, 2006, 01:25:11 pm: * missioncontrol snaps his fingers

I've got a great idea....

Why don't you pour a liquid all over the new one and take it in and say "see here's proof I didn't pour liquid on my laptop because if I had it would look like this." then point at new laptop....

problem solved
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 03:15:14 pm: You cant trust anyone anymore. You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost. Its ridiculous. Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: thebrownshow on April 13, 2006, 03:48:26 pm: Quote from: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 03:15:14 pm
You cant trust anyone anymore. You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost. Its ridiculous. Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.

A lawsuit over this?!

While this situation sucks, and Vigo, believe me, I really do empathize, but we're talking about college requirements here. He wasn't FORCED into going to this school. He wasn't FORCED into going to ANY school. He's not being CHEATED out of money by the school, and if they require him to take classes he "doesn't need" then he can go to a school that doesn't believe in a liberal-arts education.

There are a million courses of action he could take that don't require the legal system. He just needs to be a bigger pain in the ass than they are and see who gives in first.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 04:45:21 pm: O i wasnt being serious that was just me being stupid. Its kinda hard to tell the difference.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: thebrownshow on April 13, 2006, 04:58:16 pm: Quote from: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 04:45:21 pm
O i wasnt being serious that was just me being stupid. Its kinda hard to tell the difference.

My bad. I've been in the politics 'n religion forum too much lately ;)
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 05:24:35 pm: Quote from: thebrownshow on April 13, 2006, 03:48:26 pm
Quote from: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 03:15:14 pm
You cant trust anyone anymore. You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost. Its ridiculous. Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.

A lawsuit over this?!

While this situation sucks, and Vigo, believe me, I really do empathize, but we're talking about college requirements here. He wasn't FORCED into going to this school. He wasn't FORCED into going to ANY school. He's not being CHEATED out of money by the school, and if they require him to take classes he "doesn't need" then he can go to a school that doesn't believe in a liberal-arts education.

There are a million courses of action he could take that don't require the legal system. He just needs to be a bigger pain in the ass than they are and see who gives in first.

Don't worry, I won't contribute in making America look any worse when it comes to lawsuit practices...too many people take dumb crap to court...and trust me, at my University, I've been through more dumb laptop crap than just this time....it's getting to be routine...
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: DrewKaree on April 13, 2006, 06:34:37 pm: Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:01:32 am

You know...its not that far of a trip for you, Drew...I go to University of Wisconsin - Stout.

NO WAY! DUDE, I WENT TO STOUT!

That weekend sucked though, so we stopped going there and just hung around Udub-EC & LC. ;) :cheers:

I shoulda gotten my degree in weekends from the UW system, but they said something about that not being an actual course ::) Sunny beaches.

I dunno how the schooling is where you're at, but isn't there some talk about combining a few of the schools up there?
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Havok on April 13, 2006, 08:41:43 pm: Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:00:55 am
Quote from: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm
if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

Now we're talking about justice! >:D >:D >:D >:D

I know a few mac labs with some G4s that don't get watched over.... >:D

Well, if they do end up screwing you, pour Coke all over those G4s - every last one. Since you aren't responsible, REVENGE!

>:D
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: USSEnterprise on April 13, 2006, 09:36:00 pm: Quote from: Havok on April 13, 2006, 08:41:43 pm
Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:00:55 am
Quote from: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm
if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

Now we're talking about justice! >:D >:D >:D >:D

I know a few mac labs with some G4s that don't get watched over.... >:D

Well, if they do end up screwing you, pour Coke all over those G4s - every last one. Since you aren't responsible, REVENGE!

>:D
Which ends in a worse sentence? Destruction of property or theft?
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: SithMaster on April 13, 2006, 10:44:23 pm: Well they will just think that the liquid spill is natural since thats all students do is destroy computers with liquids.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 14, 2006, 02:14:52 am: Quote from: DrewKaree on April 13, 2006, 06:34:37 pm
Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:01:32 am

You know...its not that far of a trip for you, Drew...I go to University of Wisconsin - Stout.

NO WAY! DUDE, I WENT TO STOUT!

That weekend sucked though, so we stopped going there and just hung around Udub-EC & LC. ;) :cheers:

I shoulda gotten my degree in weekends from the UW system, but they said something about that not being an actual course ::) Sunny beaches.

I dunno how the schooling is where you're at, but isn't there some talk about combining a few of the schools up there?

Hey, I think you fit right in the Stout crowd....prerequisites: Alcohol and Sarcasm; you have more than enough of both to be here. ;D

I have no clue about combining schools...I know we have an overseas campus in Ireland for the serious drinkers (no joke).
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 14, 2006, 02:16:57 am: Quote from: Havok on April 13, 2006, 08:41:43 pm
Quote from: Vigo on April 13, 2006, 02:00:55 am
Quote from: SithMaster on April 12, 2006, 08:53:55 pm
if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

Now we're talking about justice! >:D >:D >:D >:D

I know a few mac labs with some G4s that don't get watched over.... >:D

Well, if they do end up screwing you, pour Coke all over those G4s - every last one. Since you aren't responsible, REVENGE!

>:D

sorry, our campus has a pouring liscence with Pepsi, and coke isn't allowed on campus...it's perfectly alright if I use a pepsi product though ;D
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: pointdablame on April 15, 2006, 10:48:30 am: God, don't get me started and the stupidity and absurdity of school laptop programs :angry: :banghead:

I got a HP Nx7000 from my school when I enrolled, and god was that thing a pile of crap. I had the thing for 2 years and it needed a new motherboard, 2 hard drives, and a wireless card... and I treated that thing like gold. It was just a piece of crap. Luckily in my case, the mobo and one HDD was early on and under warranty, and I fought over the other HDD and got lucky. They wanted to charge me $99 for the wireless card though... I told them go to hell and kept the dead one. Then I bought a new miniPCI card for $35 and installed it in 20 seconds.

My contract had similar crap like yours... they can charge at will, they have final word on cause of damage, etc etc. I traded that damn thing for a new Dell 700m... I won't be having any more trouble with that thing :laugh2: The laptops become yours at graduation, so I figure... the only way my trade could be a problem is if I drop out of school and don't graduate for some reason... and if that happens, a laptop will be the LEAST of my worries.

Stupid mandatory school laptop programs :soapbox:
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on April 16, 2006, 01:53:24 am: Quote from: pointdablame on April 15, 2006, 10:48:30 am
God, don't get me started and the stupidity and absurdity of school laptop programs :angry: :banghead:

I got a HP Nx7000 from my school when I enrolled, and god was that thing a pile of crap. I had the thing for 2 years and it needed a new motherboard, 2 hard drives, and a wireless card... and I treated that thing like gold. It was just a piece of crap. Luckily in my case, the mobo and one HDD was early on and under warranty, and I fought over the other HDD and got lucky. They wanted to charge me $99 for the wireless card though... I told them go to hell and kept the dead one. Then I bought a new miniPCI card for $35 and installed it in 20 seconds.

My contract had similar crap like yours... they can charge at will, they have final word on cause of damage, etc etc. I traded that damn thing for a new Dell 700m... I won't be having any more trouble with that thing :laugh2: The laptops become yours at graduation, so I figure... the only way my trade could be a problem is if I drop out of school and don't graduate for some reason... and if that happens, a laptop will be the LEAST of my worries.

Stupid mandatory school laptop programs :soapbox:

Yep...that about sums up school laptop programs....

DO you get to keep yours???? I don't...they said that they would sell them to us for about 500 when I enrolled (ridiculous)...but then they even retracted that promise because they said that we wouldn't own the rights to the software on them (windows and office)...they wouldn't even let anybody buy a laptop with a wiped hard drive though...and they do that all the time for the computers they sell at surplus auctions...

:soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

I would also llike to take this oppertunity to say that over a four year period, the fees that they added into my tuition for the laptop program total over $6000...this is not including the other tuition fees that went up as well, in fact..our tuition is more than double what it was 4 years ago....
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: pointdablame on April 16, 2006, 12:50:40 pm: Yes, we get to keep our laptops at the time of graduation. It is a "free" laptop that everyone who enrolls receives, but with my tuition costs, I've paid for that damn thing ten times over. If I had to give it back, I definitely wouldn't have traded it. :)

My school's plan seems a bit better than yours as it gives you the first year warranty free (which is luckily when my major problems were), but overall its a sucky system. They will charge you for everything and anything and overcharge horribly at that.

One nice perk at my school though is the software. They get a license for every student, so I can log on to our campus servers and get copies of any software I need for the entire time I'm enrolled. Free upgrades :)
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: sirwoogie on April 16, 2006, 04:55:59 pm: Vigo,

Have you paid a trip to the school Ombudsman yet? The sole purpose of that office (usually) is a defense of the student rights. You have to take this methodical and approach the situation as one of a student wronged, but more to protect the next student from falling into this trap. If you have a legal leg of that school, find somebody to help you point out the gross mistakes in the contract.

This situation is exactly why I laugh hysterically at University and grade school programs to provide laptops. What a joke!

What should be done is a subsidization program where they get laptop prices dirt cheap for people (a 1200 for 400 say), and let people decide whether they want the laptop or not. But, it won't happen because vendors can charge more for the bulk purchase programs. Gah!
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: HaRuMaN on April 17, 2006, 05:44:47 am: My school is requiring incoming freshmen next year to have tablet PC's. :lame:
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: sirwoogie on April 17, 2006, 12:06:00 pm: I find any school that mandates the use of personal portable computers is simply compensating for a lack of educational fortitude (boy, wasn't that heady). What ever happened to books, a pencil and paper? When I was doing my college stint (93-01), I had a lab provided Mac laptop for the last half. I tried taking notes on that thing, but in the end it simply got in the way most of the time. Many of the profs I had used diagrams or unique organizations that really didn't fit Word all that well. I started getting better, but then simply wrote the diagrams on paper... why use the laptop?

I've witnessed a few classes where it's auditorium style (100+) students, 50% using the laptops with headphones on, and most of them playing games through adhoc wi-fi. It's a great way to goof, but damn, it promotes not learning all that much more in classes you are required to take (physics 101... blech).

Educators and politicians are under pressure to use all the latest tools for development of student education. The problem is, their doing it at the expense of tried and true educational procedure. When I see schools around here reducing the "per student allocation" so they can run programs to provide every student with a laptop, I just want to :banghead: and :cry:
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Havok on April 18, 2006, 11:39:20 am: There's just no substitute for good old fashion books. I like to highlight and write in mine, and a laptop just doesn't work. Even at college prices, books are still a bargain!

I lament the days of the computer manuals as well - used to be when you bought hardware or software, you got a nice bound manual. I remember when my uncle bought his first IBM computer. The thing came with 10 bound books! Now, all you get is a stinking pdf!
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: shmokes on April 18, 2006, 07:05:11 pm: My phone runs Windows Mobile and I have a fold-out bluetooth keyboard for it. I love this setup. It's great for taking notes, cos I can type about 10 times faster than I can write. But having access to the internet during a class just means that I'll post at BYOAC instead of listening to the lecture. From my observation I'd estimate that the vast majority of students at my school who bring laptops to class just play on them. They are not mandatory and are actually uncommon. I'd say on average one or two people per class have one.

By the way, just because you signed a contract does not necessarily mean you're screwed. They are holding your ability to get a higher education over you. It's similar to duress. They can get you to sign all kinds of stuff when you're made to choose between going to school or not. For example, manditory arbitration that you sign at doctors' offices are almost universally non-enforceable because, no matter how unfair it is, you're hardly going to choose to die out of protest. My gut (I have no legal training) tells me that there are a lot of highly questionable things in that contract that a judge would say don't mean a damned thing.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...
Post by: Vigo on June 02, 2006, 02:39:09 am: Ok, I know it has been a few months, but I do have an update to my laptop case if anyone is interested. First I want to say I finally did get the charges removed. It did take a bloody large amount of persistance, it was all worth the effort!

In a nutshell here is what happened after All my complaining...

I submitted a huge report (close to 40 pages) stating how my laptop could be damaged from something other than liquid spill.

I turned gave it to her, but she never replied me, I had to email her a few times, finally the last day of the semester, she replies me. She said that she didn't think it was liquid spill anymore, and that the school charges for items not covered under HP's warranty so I would still be charged.

I emailed her and said that she never mentioned any warranty stuff before, and that when we we taking she said she would remove the charges as long as she didn't think it was liquid spill anymore. I told her that It was unfair to me to change policy on me like that.

She replied my just yesterday and said that even though she was still right about her decision, she would remove the charges due to the confusion she had caused.

The long version is a long more complicated, but I'll save the details. Anyway, I won. Thanks to everyone for your support and help!!!! :cheers:
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...UPDATED
Post by: thebrownshow on June 02, 2006, 10:17:10 am: Thanks for the update, still sounds like this woman is a typical college office worker: they get off on the power they have over these things.
Title: Re: I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...UPDATED
Post by: DrewKaree on June 03, 2006, 12:29:01 am: Sounds like you need to go top tank on her just to prove a point. :laugh2: