Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Airswoop on February 21, 2006, 01:22:29 am
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--I am duly sorry if I have posted this in the wrong forum.--
I have just begun to plan out the CP for my cab and I noticed that there are alot of different types/brands of joysticks and buttons. So I was wondering if anyone could recommend some quality joysticks and buttons or direct me to a place where I could find this information. Thanks in advance!
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You are at the right place. Use the search button and you will find a plethora of opinions on the best joystick/buttons.
The most popular buttons are the Happ horizontal buttons. A good, all-around joystick would be the Happ Super. These are also about the least expensive.
On the high end, but definitely worth every penny would be a 49-way joystick with the GroovyGameGear GP-Wiz 49 encoder and the GroovyGameGear translucent buttons with RGB LED boards controlled by the LED-Wiz light controller.
Before you purchase anything, look at other projects and read what joysticks/buttons they chose and why. I have tried just about all of them.
Two vendors to look at are:
http://www.groovygamegear.com (http://www.groovygamegear.com)
http://www.ultimarc.com (http://www.ultimarc.com)
For Happ parts I like a vendor named Terry Bell in Texas: http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm (http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm)
There are also two very reputable parts resellers here on this forum named Divemaster127 and Ponyboy. You can find their threads with products and pricing in the Buy/Sell/Trade board here on this forum.
Good luck with your project. I highly encourage you to create a PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENT thread in Project Announcements to keep us updated and to get help as you go.
One thing to consider is that some games used 4-way joysticks (Pacman, DonkeyKong) and don't work well with
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8 way joysticks ? ;D
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
Having two different types of joystick is not essential, more a matter of preference.
Personally, I hate having a control panel with more than two joysticks and rarely play anything that a Suzo Inductive stick can't handle (or most other 4-8way switchable sticks for that matter).
Have a look at RetroBlast's Joystick Roundup Reviews for a good overview of what different joysticks are out there and what the benefits of each are:
http://retroblast.com/hardware.html
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Thank you all for your hasty replies! I'll be sure to look into the information you have provided me.
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
I have Happ and IL (from ultimarc) pushbuttons. IL have better construction than Happ.
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
I have Happ and IL (from ultimarc) pushbuttons. IL have better construction than Happ.
IL MAKES the Happ buttons... ???
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
I have Happ and IL (from ultimarc) pushbuttons. IL have better construction than Happ.
IL MAKES the Happ buttons... ???
That is correct.
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
I have Happ and IL (from ultimarc) pushbuttons. IL have better construction than Happ.
IL MAKES the Happ buttons... ???
That is correct.
sorry.. i should have worded more carefully... I'm not asking if they make them.. I'm telling the previous poster that IL makes the Happ buttons... so how are the Ultimarc's "better" AFAIK, they are the same style, are they not? I have an "Ultimarc" button and don't remember any differences.
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Depends on the style you're used to playing on. Most US arcades will have Happ pushbuttons (there are both convex and concave).
Personally, I like Japanese style joysticks and pushbuttons. There are two major companies, Sanwa and Seimitsu. The joysticks are the lollipop style and are in general a lot more loose than US sticks. The buttons have a different feel to them as well. Some people think Jap buttons feel "cheap" but like I said it's just different. and it's really your preference.
richardp171 and ponyboy both sell Sanwa parts in the buy/sell/trade forum here. There are also online stores like himuragames.com and akihabarashop.com
~Paik
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The options are really semi-limitless - all dependent on what you want to spend.
Lower cost wise, the best solution would be an 8-way, pref. one that has a restrictor plate to make it operate in 4-way mode.
Middle of the road, you can go with Ultimarc's MagStic Plus. It's switchable from the top, and easier overall to use then one where you have to go under the panel.
Going up from there, there's the 49way option with a GPWiz board and digital restriction. This gets costly (I think it's about 50$-60$ per joystick with the board and joystick and misc. stuff taken into account).
So...what price level are you looking at, what games do you want to play, etc?
(Then theres analog, etc. :))
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sorry.. i should have worded more carefully... I'm not asking if they make them.. I'm telling the previous poster that IL makes the Happ buttons... so how are the Ultimarc's "better" AFAIK, they are the same style, are they not? I have an "Ultimarc" button and don't remember any differences.
I was simply agreeing with your statement.
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Buttons from ultimarc have most solid construction - I reccomend these.
Joystick? No chance to find one the best joystick, must have 2 or more types joysticks.
The buttons that Ultimarc sells are IL (Industrias Lorenzo (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/bswebs.G3?log:pkid=2&log:company=29&log:contract=1&log:serviceid=1&menukeys=PRODUCTOS:PRODUCTOS&xtd:language=en&pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&categoria=133552)) pushbuttons, which are pretty much what 90% of all suppliers sell (they're most commonly known as 'Happ Pushbuttons', since Happ is the most well known place to buy them).
I have Happ and IL (from ultimarc) pushbuttons. IL have better construction than Happ.
IL MAKES the Happ buttons... ???
Oh, sorry, I have buttons from SlikStik and Ultimarc. Can anybody have Happ buttons? If yes please pfoto this buttons.
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The Happ buttons clearly have "IL" molded in them....
Not to mention you can find pictures at www.happcontrols.com
Why should I take of picture of something that's a breeze to search for?
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The options are really semi-limitless - all dependent on what you want to spend.
Lower cost wise, the best solution would be an 8-way, pref. one that has a restrictor plate to make it operate in 4-way mode.
Middle of the road, you can go with Ultimarc's MagStic Plus. It's switchable from the top, and easier overall to use then one where you have to go under the panel.
Going up from there, there's the 49way option with a GPWiz board and digital restriction. This gets costly (I think it's about 50$-60$ per joystick with the board and joystick and misc. stuff taken into account).
So...what price level are you looking at, what games do you want to play, etc?
(Then theres analog, etc. :))
I do have a pretty nice budget for this project and I could afford the 49-way. I would pretty much be playing all genres with it: shooters, fighters, beat-em-ups. I do have a question though, would a 49-way joy work well with driving games?
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Arg >:(, sorry, I hit quote instead of modify.
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The options are really semi-limitless - all dependent on what you want to spend.
Lower cost wise, the best solution would be an 8-way, pref. one that has a restrictor plate to make it operate in 4-way mode.
Middle of the road, you can go with Ultimarc's MagStic Plus. It's switchable from the top, and easier overall to use then one where you have to go under the panel.
Going up from there, there's the 49way option with a GPWiz board and digital restriction. This gets costly (I think it's about 50$-60$ per joystick with the board and joystick and misc. stuff taken into account).
So...what price level are you looking at, what games do you want to play, etc?
(Then theres analog, etc. :))
I do have a pretty nice budget for this project and I could afford the 49-way. I would pretty much be playing all genres with it: shooters, fighters, beat-em-ups. I do have a question though, would a 49-way joy work well with driving games?
The 49-way works just as well or better than any other microswitch-based joystick for driving games. Keep in mind, though, that driving games didn't originally use joysticks, they used steering wheels. The correct 270 degree or 360 degree wheel for the driving games you play is better.
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Oh, sorry, I have buttons from SlikStik and Ultimarc. Can anybody have Happ buttons? If yes please pfoto this buttons.
They are all the same. SlikStik and Ultimarc just resell them, as do tons of other people.
No need for pictures. Go grab one of the buttons you have. Those are them. :)
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From everything I've read, if you have the cash...go with dual 49 ways. Best overall option for variability without panel swapping. A spinner works well for...well, spinner games, and anything with a 360 degree wheel.
Grabbing a driving setup for driving games would be your best bet (270 degree games). I havent actually tried one with my spinner yet...I dont get why it wouldnt work but supposedly it doesnt.
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You are at the right place. Use the search button and you will find a plethora of opinions on the best joystick/buttons.
The most popular buttons are the Happ horizontal buttons. A good, all-around joystick would be the Happ Super. These are also about the least expensive.
On the high end, but definitely worth every penny would be a 49-way joystick with the GroovyGameGear GP-Wiz 49 encoder and the GroovyGameGear translucent buttons with RGB LED boards controlled by the LED-Wiz light controller.
Before you purchase anything, look at other projects and read what joysticks/buttons they chose and why. I have tried just about all of them.
Two vendors to look at are:
http://www.groovygamegear.com (http://www.groovygamegear.com)
http://www.ultimarc.com (http://www.ultimarc.com)
For Happ parts I like a vendor named Terry Bell in Texas: http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm (http://www.tornadoterrys.com/surplus.htm)
There are also two very reputable parts resellers here on this forum named Divemaster127 and Ponyboy. You can find their threads with products and pricing in the Buy/Sell/Trade board here on this forum.
Good luck with your project. I highly encourage you to create a PROJECT ANNOUNCEMENT thread in Project Announcements to keep us updated and to get help as you go.
One thing to consider is that some games used 4-way joysticks (Pacman, DonkeyKong) and don't work well with [8-way joysticks]
That last line...when you say "don't work well"....just how not well are we talking? Curious, because this now has me rethinking my design a little - again. :'( If you were going to add a single 4-way joystick which would it be?
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Donkey Kong and Pacman are difficult to play well with an 8-way stick. People will argue that, but not the ones who are good at Donkey Kong and Pacman.
If I were adding one 4-way joystick to my panel it would most likely be the Happ Ms.Pacman/Galaga reunion stick. I have one on my 4-player cab and it is very nice. I also like Wico 4-way leafswitch joys (only available used or Ebay NOS), The Ultimarc J-Stik and E-Stik.
The best 4-way ever was the original Pacman leafswitch joystick, but it is large, hard to mount in a wood panel, expensive, and hard to find.
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On the 4-way game with an 8-way. I guess it depends on the 8-way, but my opinion is it...flat out sucks. I've played PacMan in the arcade after using my X-Arcade (which is known to have 4-way issues) and...the difference is fairly huge.
I'd say DEFINITELY get something with at least a restrictor option.
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Thanks for the 4way/8way info...now if I can just figure out where to place a nice four way....
:-\
Everytime I think I have it nailed down... >:(
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Oh, sorry, I have buttons from SlikStik and Ultimarc. Can anybody have Happ buttons? If yes please pfoto this buttons.
They are all the same. SlikStik and Ultimarc just resell them, as do tons of other people.
Sorry you are wrong. Wait for photos...
Left - Ultimarc button; Rigth - SlikStik button. Both I bought in the same time almost.
(http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/1.jpg)
Other photos:
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg)
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The Happ buttons clearly have "IL" molded in them....
Sorry but not all IL buttons have "IL" molded. For example green buttons which I have are without "IL", red with "IL" molded. All are from Ultimarc, all are identical: identical construction, identical spring, all identical but "IL" isn't molded on all buttons.
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iL & Happ in one shop
http://www.gremlinsolutions.co.uk/arcadeparts.htm
I will colours iL pushbuttons from Ultimarc, they are stronger and prettier ;D
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Oh, sorry, I have buttons from SlikStik and Ultimarc. Can anybody have Happ buttons? If yes please pfoto this buttons.
They are all the same. SlikStik and Ultimarc just resell them, as do tons of other people.
Sorry you are wrong. Wait for photos...
Left - Ultimarc button; Rigth - SlikStik button. Both I bought in the same time almost.
(http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/1.jpg)
Other photos:
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg)
I'm not trying to start anything, but one button is a little longer than the other. The appear to be exactly the same color. From the top of the panel you would never know the difference, so what is the issue? Is the shorter one too short or is the longer one too long?
If we all posted a picture of our buttons, you wouldn't be able to tell how long they are compared to others. Let us know the specific info you need and I'll try and help.
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The appear to be exactly the same color
this is not the same tint it reddens.
On picture this to be not visible well. Buttons on ultimarc look a bit better (they have gloss)
this my opinion
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Sorry, late to the game here ... is the argument that there is a meaningful difference in quality between two buttons made by the same manufacturer but in different lengths ?
I was actually going to write a response, but what would be the point ?
Besides, real men use leafs. ;)
Cheers.
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Is their any arguable difference between shorter buttons and longer ones (gameplay wise)?
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Difference is in appearance only: they look a lot of better visually. There is no difference in game. Plunger is lower about 0,5 mm (for me this better)
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Difference is in appearance only: they look a lot of better visually. There is no difference in game.
OK ... I will post a reply, if only to present an opposing point of view ... I have bought through Andy, Happ and others, as well as pulled buttons from machines and bought boxes of used buttons. There has been no appreciable difference in levels of sheen or depth of colour.
Now, there have been colour differences, but I have seen those within batches purchased from individual suppliers.
I think that the next batch of buttons that I buy will be RandyT's cool new buttons .. now THEY look great.
Cheers.
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Sorry you are wrong. Wait for photos...
Left - Ultimarc button; Rigth - SlikStik button. Both I bought in the same time almost.
http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/1.jpg
Other photos:
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/2.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/3.jpg)
slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg (http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/slikstik_vs_ultimarc/4.jpg)
I still don't think I am wrong. You asked if there were construction differences between the buttons... not color... not length.
They are the same exact nylon/plastic, the same type of plunger, extremely similar spring (if not identical) They are, for all intents and purposes, the SAME button. The length makes exactly zero difference.
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Happ buttons are made in the USA. IL are made in Spain. Therefore, IL's tend to be more expensive here and HAPP's tend to be more expensive over there.
Both are great buttons and have virtually identical construction. But there are differences in thread pitch (nuts are not interchangable) and in color.
Once installed, you'd nearly have to be psychic to tell which was which.
And I am pretty certain the IL logo is on all IL buttons. FWIW, there are also buttons which look just like these and are produced in China, so it's difficult to tell simply from the design.
RandyT
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logo iL is on what second buttons in series (white, blue, red).
Ultimarc model: plunger=6,8 length=65mm (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/g3repository/PRODUCTO/219432F0.PDF)
happ model: plunger=7,8 lenght=70mm (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/g3repository/PRODUCTO/219434F0.PDF)
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logo iL is on what second buttonie in series (white, blue, red).
Ultimarc model: plunger=6,8 length=65mm (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/g3repository/PRODUCTO/219432F0.PDF)
happ model: plunger=7,8 lenght=70mm (http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/g3repository/PRODUCTO/219434F0.PDF)
I stand corrected. I am surprised about something else in those documents, however. I was under the impression that the button material was nylon, but it says the material is A.B.S.
Makes me wonder now what the rest of them are made of. I know I heard somewhere that arcade buttons were made from nylon, maybe the old WICO leafs?
RandyT
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(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/194/untitledscanned010cv.jpg)
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(http://www.gramtech.dt.pl/destructor/ult_vs_slik.jpg)
Here is more differences in construction, best if you buy slikstik and ultimarc button and you will see that buttons from Ultimarc are better.
Buttons have different colors shade. Ultimarc are shining, SlikStik are pale.
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And I am pretty certain the IL logo is on all IL buttons. FWIW, there are also buttons which look just like these and are produced in China, so it's difficult to tell simply from the design.
Then Andy has China buttons? No, no guys. I know what I say. These photos I made one minute before post them on forum.
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And I am pretty certain the IL logo is on all IL buttons. FWIW, there are also buttons which look just like these and are produced in China, so it's difficult to tell simply from the design.
Then Andy has China buttons? No, no guys. I know what I say. These photos I made one minute before post them on forum.
I think that you are misunderstanding RandyT ... he didn't say that Andy's buttons are from China ...
Cheers.
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And I am pretty certain the IL logo is on all IL buttons. FWIW, there are also buttons which look just like these and are produced in China, so it's difficult to tell simply from the design.
Then Andy has China buttons? No, no guys. I know what I say. These photos I made one minute before post them on forum.
I think that you are misunderstanding RandyT ... he didn't say that Andy's buttons are from China ...
Yeah, he is. Every IL button I own has an IL logo, but apparently they have an "OEM" version that is unbranded, based on the PDF that was linked in an earlier post. I don't speak nor read Spanish, so that is still an assumption. But unless they just forgot to include the logo on the drawing then I think that would be a safe one to make.
Ultimarc states right in their site that their buttons are from IL, so there's no doubt there.
RandyT
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symbol is on buttons : red, white and blue
green, yellow they have not symbol
it in second type can be inversely
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This thread has been a revelation to me. I'd always assumed that all the Happ buttons were manufactured by Industrias Lorenzo because most of the Happ joysticks are manufactured by that company.
The question is do you get the same brand of buttons if you order from Happ (USA) or Happ (Europe)? And what type of buttons do Ponyboy and the other Happ resellers stock?
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I sell Happ Horizontal Pushbuttons and IL Competition Pushbuttons.
But rumor has it that, oh forget it.
Ponyboy
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Yes all of our buttons are IL and yes, some of them are their OEM version which is supplied to re-sellers (Happ?) so don't have the IL logo, but are exactly the same button.
Nobody has mentioned micro-switches yet (probably just as well as the thread will go on for ever!) but ours are Chery D42 which over the years we have received the best feedback from. IL themselves don't supply these switches with their buttons, they generally supply SAIA but we source the Cherry separately from the buttons.
I have boxes full of sample buttons from Taiwan and China. They are generally direct rip-offs of the IL buttons but the dished face is always uneven and they have a dull appearance so have not been tempted to sell these.
Andy
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does ultimarc plan to sell buttons Sanwa OBSN30 and OBSN - RG ?
is the possibility of order of PSL-CV? :notworthy:
http://www.industrias-lorenzo.com/jsps/lorenzo/show_info.jsp?pkid=2&idcompany=29&idcontract=1&idservice=1&language=en&idcatalogable=219435
happ sells PSL-L-CV (aka happ competion pushbuttons (http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5896xxl.htm)) but they do not shine and may weaker colour:P