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Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: ScottMcC on January 03, 2006, 04:05:35 pm

Title: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ScottMcC on January 03, 2006, 04:05:35 pm
With LEDs and translucent pushbuttons a lot of people are illuminating there buttons.  I was thinking could there be a way to wire the LEDs to fire when a button is pressed?  I
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: RayB on January 03, 2006, 05:30:43 pm
One has to ask... why?

Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ScottMcC on January 03, 2006, 05:32:52 pm
Basically your saying that you could wire up the LED to an IPAC board with a resistor to step down the volts so that when the encoder puts out a button press signal it fires the LED.
I
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ScottMcC on January 03, 2006, 05:34:27 pm
As for why...

Come on, buttons that light up when pushed or lit buttons that change color when pushed!  I think that would look great and make fighting games even more intresting to watch.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 03, 2006, 08:02:37 pm
HEY GREAT IDEA!!!!

Nah, thats really my idea from about 2 years ago, great minds think alike.  Trimoor posted a circuit for me, if i can Ill try to remember it in paint.  Basically, it allowed me to have a switch:  ALL ON, ON, OFF.  All on would put all the lights on.  On would give them power when the button was pushed, or in my case, when the joystick was moved up and arrow pointing up would light.

You basically take your 5v from the ipac, and split it off to an LED... gimme 3 minutes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT:  In case this isnt obvious... anything in the red on the one side of the circuit is optional, I just thought it would be nice to have an ALWAYS ON switch too...  that just splits the GND at the microchip... oh crap I messed up the pic.

THE GROUND ON THE LED THING SHOULD BE A +5 NOT A GROUND...  IF YOU WANT TO HOOK IT UP TO GROUND INSTEAD, YOU NEED TO PUT THE CIRCUIT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MICROSWITCH SO ITS COMMONLY GROUNDED.

My bad :)  Dont feel like fixing it...
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Ed_McCarron on January 03, 2006, 08:10:06 pm
There ya go... Blocking diodes at their finest. :)
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: rdagger on January 03, 2006, 08:52:16 pm
You could probably just throw a resistor and LED in series with the push button.   It probably would not affect/hurt the IPAC.  Might want to ask Randy.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: spriggy on January 03, 2006, 09:12:54 pm
Quote from: rdagger on January 03, 2006, 08:52:16 pm
You could probably just throw a resistor and LED in series with the push button.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ShinAce on January 03, 2006, 09:23:44 pm
The last 2 circuits are wrong. I can't even read the first one. But awesome effort from everyone.

The last circuit is flat wrong. Do not place a load between an IPAC input and a GND connection. The connection must be made in parallel.

The second last one has a minor typo. There is no 5 volt connection...hmmm.... The ground on the left is right, the one in the middle supplying the LED should actually be a 5 volt connection. Cholin, my man, normally you pay attention. You are no longer allowed to have an extra soft puppy as an avatar.

try this instead, it'll work better....

www.geocities.com/alainprice/blinkylite.bmp

Also, there is this stick(www.geocities.com/alainprice/ownzord3.jpg) which uses an entirely different method to light the LED's. The pushbutton goes to ground on one side. On the other, I feed it to both the input of an IPAC, and a NOT GATE(74ls00). Then the ouput of the NOT gate feeds the resistor+LED and finishes at ground. So that way I don't have a 5 volt wire(possible short) running through my stick, and it also isolates the LED and IPAC, so that a shorted LED would not cause the button to malfunction. yadda yadda yadda, you get the drift.
If you think that's overkill, check out the optical buttons thread.

let me know if the links are dead, can't really check em right now.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 03, 2006, 11:12:04 pm
Awww come on I tried!  At least I explained my circuit in capital letters so I didnt have to fix it.  I GUARANTEE it will work.

*Trimoor will take all responsibility for this circuit*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT:  FINE I TOOK THE TIME TO FIX / CLARIFY IT (took me 3 tries !!!!! I had to modify this post 4 times!)  ANOTHER:  had the diode the wrong way, make that 4 / 5!
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: rdagger on January 03, 2006, 11:19:59 pm
Quote from: ShinAce on January 03, 2006, 09:23:44 pm
The last circuit is flat wrong. Do not place a load between an IPAC input and a GND connection. The connection must be made in parallel.

Now you made me open up my CP to test my flat wrong theory.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 03, 2006, 11:23:19 pm
Well, microchips need at least 3.3 volts to accept a signal as HIGH, so placing a load might cause some problems with that.  It might also use current that the line doesnt supply, or shouldnt, so that would cause a problem... considerring theyre only supposed to put out 20mA.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ScottMcC on January 03, 2006, 11:46:51 pm
I like your idea cholin of having the joystick single lights via movement.  I'm going to admint most of the diagrams you guys are drawing are beyond me with out a eletronics book but I am getting the impression that it is possible and that it has been done before.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: rdagger on January 04, 2006, 12:03:58 am
Quote from: cholin on January 03, 2006, 11:23:19 pm
Well, microchips need at least 3.3 volts to accept a signal as HIGH, so placing a load might cause some problems with that.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ShinAce on January 04, 2006, 12:30:22 am
Most 'gates' are off between 0 and 1.5, then on from 2 to 5.

The problem with saying it works is that it won't with all colors, or resistors, or combinations, or reliability. To do so is to ask for trouble or wasted time. Just use the alternate, parallel wiring; it works just fine.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: brian23 on January 04, 2006, 10:42:45 am
Quote from: rdagger on January 03, 2006, 11:19:59 pm
Quote from: ShinAce on January 03, 2006, 09:23:44 pm
The last circuit is flat wrong. Do not place a load between an IPAC input and a GND connection. The connection must be made in parallel.

Now you made me open up my CP to test my flat wrong theory.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: rdagger on January 04, 2006, 12:36:59 pm
Quote from: brian23 on January 04, 2006, 10:42:45 am
Ok, so let me see if I am tracking. Take a look at the pictures below. Which one is valid?

Assuming the box on the left is an encoder and the blue box on the right is a pushbutton, then the first drawing is the way I tested it using a 330 ohm resistor and a standard LED.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 04, 2006, 03:53:51 pm
That's how it goes, no one remembers you until they want something from you.  Well maybe I want something in return...

Alright kids, time for 'ol Trimoor to clear things up.
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31970.0;id=9835;image)
This circuit will make an LED illuminate when the button is pressed.  It will not harm an encoder, and is perfectly acceptable by engineering standards.  It allows both the LED and encoder to share a common ground without frying one another.  I have included robust labels for the electronically challenged.  I have personally used this circuit, and can assure you it is safe and elegant.  Just don't lick it.
(http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4684/ledbuttoncircuit21bd.png)
This circuit is the one I made for cholin.  It functions the same as the first, but it has an extra all-on feature.  When idle, all the lights will be partly illuminated, with the brightness controlled by a single potentiometer.  This can be anything from completely off, to completely on.  When a button is pressed, that individual light will jump to full brightness, regardless of the potentiometer setting.  Thus all your lights can be dimly lit, but each one will be bright when pressed.
Connecting an LED in series with an encoder is a bad idea.  It could reduce the reliability, damage the LED with excessive current, damage the encoder with excessive current, and simply lacks elegance.  We engineers always want the most elegant solution.

If anything goes wrong, be sure to blame cholin for giving me ideas.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: brian23 on January 05, 2006, 08:50:12 am
Ok, third time's a charm :)

Here is my next try at your circuit Trimoor. Which one is correct, first or second? Corrections?
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 05, 2006, 12:42:27 pm
Neither is correct.  The first will constantly register a button press, and the second will end up frying your power supply.  Actually both will fry the power supply.

I can't get much simpler than the diagram.  Just follow it carefully and try again.  It's not that hard.  Try not to deviate from the standard symbols too much: your diagram gives no indication of LED polarity.

See how the diode goes straight from the encoder pin to the switch?  The LED goes straight from the power supply to the switch.  The ground from both the encoder and the power supply connect to the other side of the switch.  That's it.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: brian23 on January 05, 2006, 01:02:28 pm
Quote from: Trimoor on January 05, 2006, 12:42:27 pm
Neither is correct.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: RayB on January 05, 2006, 01:18:29 pm
You guys have it all wrong. Read the thread title again. He wants the MICROSWITCHES to light up.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: brian23 on January 05, 2006, 01:26:05 pm
Quote from: RayB on January 05, 2006, 01:18:29 pm
You guys have it all wrong. Read the thread title again. He wants the MICROSWITCHES to light up.


I think you should read a little below his initial message:

ScottMcC: Come on, buttons that light up when pushed or lit buttons that change color when pushed!  I think that would look great and make fighting games even more intresting to watch.

So he does want buttons to light up. Either way, they do make translucent microswitches (or are in the process of). Plus, the circuits being discussed here could be used to do light a microswitch, but I think what he really wants to do is use a translucent button with LED that responds when a button is pressed (hence microswitch).
 
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: RayB on January 05, 2006, 01:45:58 pm
 ::)
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 05, 2006, 09:28:23 pm
This is the last time.  If you can't figure this one out, there is no hope for you.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 06, 2006, 03:17:33 pm
You da man trimoor :)  See, I wasnt the only one who thought this would be a sick idea.  Sad part is, I have all the parts, EXCEPT the buttons themselves.  MY progress on my arcade idea is going soooo slow.... :(  Actually I think Ill order some crap from ponyboy like right now since I do have christmas money still..... 200 bucks left, should buy me buttons and joysticks and still have enough to get all my microchip projects done too :)
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 06, 2006, 04:39:10 pm
Quote from: cholin on January 06, 2006, 03:17:33 pm
You da man trimoor :)
Oh?  And what makes you so sure of that? :-*
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: hypernova on January 06, 2006, 05:26:20 pm
i don't understand the button pressing light up deal either.  who in the world watches the buttons being pressed the entire time.  maybe for a few seconds to watch someone at work, but the majority of the time, people will be watching the screen.  and the people playing can't exactly watch their buttons light up as they play anyway....so what's the point again?  just leave 'em on all the time.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 06, 2006, 08:39:21 pm
The point is it's damn cool and was unique at first... ok?  Whats the point of putting anything on your cabinet?  You can play JUST as well with a joystick on your lap hooked up to your TV!

One thing about this.... hobby... don't question people trying to be creative, THATS WHAT ITS ABOUT.

Learn to like it baby :)

Quote from: Trimoor on January 06, 2006, 04:39:10 pm
Quote from: cholin on January 06, 2006, 03:17:33 pm
You da man trimoor :)
Oh?  And what makes you so sure of that? :-*

Im not sure if I really wanna know, Ill just let you chose your own way to express your manhood...
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: RayB on January 06, 2006, 10:05:59 pm
I'm gonna have my buttons trigger a confetti machine.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: RandyT on January 06, 2006, 11:59:58 pm
Quote from: Trimoor on January 05, 2006, 09:28:23 pm
This is the last time.  If you can't figure this one out, there is no hope for you.

Hehe.  That little LED is gonna catch on fire the first time you press the button.  Your pictures show it hooked to the 12v line with no current limiting resistor :).


RandyT
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: ScottMcC on January 07, 2006, 12:06:47 am
I know the person playing isn't going to be looking at the buttons but people watching someone play will.  Image fighting game combos where you can watch the buttons light up.  Lets face it if there is no point to making illuminated buttons then there is no point in putting artwork on your cab or painting it.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: cholin on January 07, 2006, 12:44:31 am
THANK YOU.  I rest my case :)

Honestly though, there are illuminated pushbuttons........ who says you shouldnt use them in-game? :)
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 07, 2006, 01:23:08 am
Quote from: RandyT on January 06, 2006, 11:59:58 pm
Hehe. That little LED is gonna catch on fire the first time you press the button. Your pictures show it hooked to the 12v line with no current limiting resistor :).

I know it looks that way, but brian23 wanted a circuit for a 12V LED with internal current limitation.  I suppose you could use flash bulbs if you want...

Quote from: cholin on January 06, 2006, 08:39:21 pm
I'm not sure if I really wanna know, Ill just let you chose your own way to express your manhood...

Why would I ever want to express manhood?  The concept disgusts me.

Quote from: RayB on January 06, 2006, 10:05:59 pm
I'm gonna have my buttons trigger a confetti machine.

That's the spirit.  Now design an arcade interface for a robotic vacuum.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Level42 on January 07, 2006, 01:04:47 pm
Quote from: RandyT on January 06, 2006, 11:59:58 pm
Quote from: Trimoor on January 05, 2006, 09:28:23 pm
This is the last time.  If you can't figure this one out, there is no hope for you.

Hehe.  That little LED is gonna catch on fire the first time you press the button.  Your pictures show it hooked to the 12v line with no current limiting resistor :).


RandyT

How true !
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: hypernova on January 08, 2006, 07:52:38 pm
I know the person playing isn't going to be looking at the buttons but people watching someone play will.

but the player's hand'll be in the way!

Image fighting game combos where you can watch the buttons light up.

i know...i made that point in my post...sort of.  but as i just said, the player's hand will be obstructing most of the view of all the pretty flashing.  it's been a few years since i've played arcades, but i know people don't hold their hands in the air, fingers pointed straight down punching the buttons like piano hammers.

my whole deal is, thinking logically, it just doesn't seem worth the trouble, especially since most people want to see all the pretty sparkling most of the time, not just for fleeting moments, when hands are concealing most of the fireworks anyway.  no need for everyone to go nuts on me!

now...having the button light go OFF for every press...now that's original!  i think.
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: Trimoor on January 11, 2006, 11:57:14 am
Quote from: hypernova on January 08, 2006, 07:52:38 pm
my whole deal is, thinking logically,
Well that's your problem.  Logic has no place in art.

If you want the light to go out when it is pressed, that's even easier.  Just use the NC contacts of the microswitch.  But what would really be neat is a fade effect.  Press the button and it goes out.  Release it, and it fades back to full brightness in half a second.  Hmmm.....
Title: Re: Microswitches that light up when pushed?
Post by: quarterback on January 11, 2006, 02:07:51 pm
Quote from: hypernova on January 08, 2006, 07:52:38 pm
the player's hand'll be in the way!
...

the player's hand will be obstructing most of the view of all the pretty flashing.  it's been a few years since i've played arcades, but i know people don't hold their hands in the air, fingers pointed straight down punching the buttons like piano hammers.

You must have some fat ---smurfing--- fingers.

NORMAL FINGERS
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48020.0;id=22565;image)



HYPERNOVA'S FINGERS
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=48020.0;id=22566;image)