Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum

Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: Roughy on December 01, 2005, 04:09:52 pm

Title: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 01, 2005, 04:09:52 pm: I'm on the route of making a final decision as far as my first cabinet, and I've managed to decide that me actually building it probably won't be the best decision from a time, cost and most of all, skill perspective.

Hey, I'm honest.

That said, I've noticed a couple of "kits" out there that are of interest and if possible, I'd like some feedback to help me along my merry way:

1) The Ultimate Arcade II Kit (with Control Panel Combo?) http://www.mameroom.com/UAIIEkit_info2.asp
This is a nice price--$500ish seems relatively easy to stomach to me, however, I'd really like a Trakball (gotta have a golf game!) and their kit doesn't appear to have that option, but they do have a "design your own control panel option that might just be dumb enough for me to use. Or I could copy a different design.

The problem with this option is the wiring, etc. etc. to fill in all the holes on the control panel. Seems to me that it should almost be something you could get put together easy enough, but then again, everyone deserves to get paid for their efforts--I'm reasonable and fair about that.

2) Dream Arcades Upright Kit http://www.dreamarcades.com/upright/
$1000 + shipping seems a *little* stiff to me. But, perhaps it's worth it for all of the wiring to be taken care of and the control panel and all that stuff. Perhaps I'm suffering from an all-at-once sticker shock for this one.

What I'd like to ask of "you" is an opinion or some advice. I live in the Chicago area and am ready to go; I don't need a computer or a monitor, but want to be able to get what I need and turn it on and start the MAMEing.

Thanks in advance for any opinions and advices here.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: MameJunkie on December 01, 2005, 04:23:22 pm: Dream Arcades is way to pricey for my blood ($1000).
The UAII kit is okay if you really don't have any skills what so ever.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: RayB on December 01, 2005, 04:23:42 pm: 3) Existing stripped cabinet.
Free - $50. Usually comes with a coin door already installed, marquee light, sometimes even wiring and controls. No assembly required. Just sand & paint.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: wilef on December 01, 2005, 04:24:33 pm: I'm in the process of building my first cabinet and I'm loving it. It's really rewarding seeing the thing come together. As far as time, yes it will take you some time. My friend and I are about 18 hours into it and will probably end up at around 40. Cost though, building it is the cheapest route (unless you need to buy a bunch of power tools). I'll end up spending around $300-$350 which includes everything for the cabinet (wood, plexi, buttons, joysticks, wiring, keyboard encoder, t-molding, casters, screws, primer, paint, side art, marquee, control panel, etc.). I found a used tv for $10 and already have a computer I'm going to use, so I'm not counting that into the cost.

Of course, if you don't have the tools or the carpenter skills, then I'd go with the kit (still give you something to do). I really couldn't have done it without my friend (who owns the tools), so I was looking into the kit idea myself.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Check out my site if you want: http://mariobrosarcade.blogspot.com/
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: daikiki on December 01, 2005, 04:25:48 pm: I've had the pleasure of doing business with dream arcade, they're a class act, use quality components, and their uprights (and cocktails) look sweet. I don't know how much you'd be willing to do yourself, but maybe you could contact them about getting just the cab parts and doing the cp wiring yourself. Bear in mind that the included controls would probably set you back about two hundred bucks if you had to order them separately. Mameroom's product looks really nice, but It's definitely more of a DIY solution. It looks like you'd only be getting the wooden cab parts. No coin door, bezel, or marquee. Really nice design though.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 01, 2005, 04:34:34 pm: Now for those of us that are true hobbyists.. that LIKE working with tools, and buying them and slowly building a shop...
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 01, 2005, 04:35:25 pm: Okay, so if I went with something like at Mameroom--is it possible to simply use their Control Panel designer to "whip up" the panel that someone like Dream Arcade has, and then...

Well, that's where I'm lost.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: daikiki on December 01, 2005, 04:42:32 pm: If you have them design a control panel for you, your job would then be to drop the switches, sticks, and trackball into the predrilled and routed holes, screw or bolt them down, then solder the wiring up. If you're even a little bit onfident with a soldering iron, this is a piece of cake. The last part of the puzzle is some kind of keyboard encoder. This is a device that plugs into your computer and has connectors for your various switches and inputs. Ultimarc.com carries a wide variety of encoders. Make sure the one you choose supports that trackball you want though :)
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 01, 2005, 04:43:35 pm: You can use their tool to design whatever you want. And putting it together is (relatively) easy. There aren't really any unforgiveable mistakes you can make, so no big.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 01, 2005, 04:44:35 pm: If you use a screw terminal encoder, you wouldn't need to solder. Just cut wires and put them into quick-connects. That's super easy.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 01, 2005, 04:49:16 pm: Thanks for all the great feedback--I truly appreciate it.

I'm still sort of... unsure which direction to go yet.

As suggested, I'm not so concerned with getting so involved with the building of this project--there's a poker table I'm finishing, a bar, studding, drywall, drop ceiling, tile, and you get the idea... This is something I'd like to keep painless and all.

Hell, I guess I could come right out and ask it:

If I went with the UAII cab, without asking too much legwork (or for that matter with asking for a little legwork and the offer to make it worth your while or something like that), what would I need/want to play the most games? The savings are attractive--and to be honest, breaking up payments makes it a little easier to sell to the wife, ya know what I mean?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: daikiki on December 01, 2005, 05:04:11 pm: Short summary:

Control panel has already been covered in some detail. Besides that:

Coin door: This takes a default size coin door. They're about twenty to fourty bucks used on ebay or a hundred new. An alternative would be a blank coin door panel, available from happ controls, You don't need to wire up any coin slots, since you can simply assign shortcuts to the control panel.

Bezel: Available commercially for about 15 to twenty bucks for a nineteen inch monitor. It's thin plastic that can be cut to size with a sharp knife and a straight edge. You could go with a plexiglass overlay if you want. Most suppliers will cut a 1/8" sheet to size for you. Expect to pay about 20 bucks.

marquee: Marquee holders will set you back maybe ten and can easily be mounted using screws or tacks, or even staples. Another 20 for two sheets of plexi, and fifteen for the marquee itself. You'll probably want a light in there as well. That's another fifteen or so.

Monitor. A nineteen inch vga will do the trick. Decasing it helps it sit flush against the bezel, but you could keep it cased, paint it black (or cover the visible bits with black electricians tape). If you leave it cased, you'll have to make your own bezel, but a two dollar piece of black poster board will do the trick. An arcade monitor or tv is also an option.

Computer running mame and a frontend. The only thing you have to worry about here is whether the video card will output what you need for the screen. A vga monitor is straightforward, but for a tv you'd need something with a video out. Mame will run most classic games happily with a fairly low spec computer. Some newer games require a bit more oomph in the processor department, but generally something with 800mhz and 256 MB of ram should get you a long way.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Buddabing on December 01, 2005, 05:08:48 pm: There's also:

4) SlikStik arcade cabinets (http://www.slikstik.com)
5) 1UP arcade cabinets (http://www.spincade.com)

These two are high end professionally done cabinets.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 01, 2005, 05:50:22 pm: Both of which have a hefty cost attached.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: RTSDaddy2 on December 01, 2005, 06:02:31 pm: Quote from: daikiki on December 01, 2005, 05:04:11 pm

Computer running mame and a frontend. The only thing you have to worry about here is whether the video card will output what you need for the screen. A vga monitor is straightforward, but for a tv you'd need something with a video out.

My two cents, for what they're worth (and not much probably)...you can also hook up to TV with a cheap scan converter as well, which is what we've done. The problem with that is that things such as light guns require a TV out hookup, so now I've got to consider buying a new vid card...because I thought this computer I purchased had a TV out!! ARRRGH!!

In other words, I agree go with the computer with the TV out hookup if you can afford it...I just wanted to offer the scan converter (paid $75 for mine) as an alternative here on this thread.

As far as buy vs. build....I wouldn't trade my hand-built machine for anything. ANYTHING.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 01, 2005, 07:15:31 pm: Quote from: daikiki on December 01, 2005, 05:04:11 pm
Short summary:

Control panel has already been covered in some detail. Besides that:

And I'm still trying to make a decision based-upon the Control Panel. That's the daunting part for me--I'm not sure what's crap and what's great, what's entirely needed, etc. I'd happily take a link--and like I've mentioned, make it worth someone's while (feel free to PM me) to help out with this and help guide me through getting all that I need.

Beyond that, I don't need to worry about all the other items listed; I've got them covered. Thanks for all the additional information--seriously. It's good to have.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: CheffoJeffo on December 01, 2005, 07:28:10 pm: I like RayB's option 3.

I am good with tools (so no fear of the construction) and spent over a year refining designs for a scratch-built cabinet with frankenpanel.

Then my sister-in-law suggested getting a cocktail machine for the cottage and I found one working locally for cheap. Stripped it, added a third control panel, put in new joys and buttons, dropped in an IPac and PC with ArcadeVGA and was done. At that point I realized that arcade monitors really are a better experience.

Total cost about C$400, excluding PC.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 01, 2005, 11:35:34 pm: I started with option 3. It's a good option. As for the control panel.. I have a mini frankenpanel that works great for 1 player (trackball, spinner, joystick and a few buttons). I swap it out for 2 player fighting games.

The control panel just depends on what you like to play yourself. I find that I mostly enjoy playing 1player old-skool games. I haven't felt like putting in the 2 player panel for about a year now. There are SO MANY different types of controls. Start with the basics. Expand from their. You can always make swappable panels down the road. Even out of prebuilt panels.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: DreamArcades on December 02, 2005, 01:45:25 am: I honestly think we have awesome cabinets for anyone who wants to buy an arcade cabinet, in my (admittedly biased) opinion the best.

Just remember I said,
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: myrmidon on December 02, 2005, 01:52:21 am: I thought about this very thing for a long time. I have been playing with MAME for many years now (pretty much since it came out), and also have 2 arcade machines, but never a MAME machine. After much deliberation I decided on:

- I am going to buy a machine. I like the electronics and wiring much more than the woodwork, so I am purchasing a kit.
- I want my machine to look EXACTLY like a real arcade machine, therefore I am purchasing the 'Galaga' cabinet kit from Mike's Arcade.
- The response from Mike's Arcade has been awesome (I sent them about 4 rounds of e-mail, each with multiple questions, and Mike responded each time with clear answers and sometimes pictures)
- I am in the process of getting the website live, and taking lots of pictures so the progress will be well documented.

Regards
Olaf
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: koolmoecraig on December 02, 2005, 02:41:44 am: I tell you what. You are much better off buying a competely "dead" cabinet.

You can get a dead classic for dirt cheap. I picked up and painted over and converted Mad Planets cabinet at auction 2 weeks ago for $37. The coin door is there, the control panel is there(ready to be modified) and the lighting and power is usually there.

Strip the sucker and repaint and you are good to go for dirt cheap.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 03:13:56 am: I'm not really concerned about the coin door or the this-or-that.

I don't want to strip down an old cabinet and try and figure out how to make things fit.

I do believe that I am very much at the "Buy" stage of things.

I like the UAII and I like the Dream Arcades kits.

I am leaning more toward the UAII because of the immediate lower-end cost. Coincidentally, DA upped their price $50 tonight, which also creates an impact.

So, if I'm leaning toward a UAII, is there anyone who'd be willing to do some off-thread, email coaching for the control panel? I was serious when I said that I'd make it worth your while--that is, I'll probably be a mildly annoying person as I try and learn AND get what I think I want/need all at the same time so I don't think anyone should take that on for free.

Mostly, I want to plan what I need, figure how to design it, design it, order *all* the parts I need and understand how to slap those together. If it's as easy as most of you make it seem, then I'm not real worried.

Anyone?
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: SOAPboy on December 02, 2005, 07:23:25 am: Quote from: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 03:13:56 am
I'm not really concerned about the coin door or the this-or-that.

I don't want to strip down an old cabinet and try and figure out how to make things fit.

I do believe that I am very much at the "Buy" stage of things.

I like the UAII and I like the Dream Arcades kits.

I am leaning more toward the UAII because of the immediate lower-end cost.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 11:07:13 am: Ill do you one better.. buy saints book..

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764556169.html

Myself, havent bought it, but its worth it for someone just starting out, and even people who have done a little work on machines..

Still have questions, people here will help
Quote

Sure, I could buy the book--not a bad idea at all, but again, I don't want to build something.

Now I'm asking to pay someone for their time to help me articulate what I want/need from a Control Panel perspective. So I could buy that book or put that money to someone else with more expierence than I who could say something to me like "don't put the trakball there; you'll only smash the sh@t out of your palm on that <thing>" and save me additional costs down the road.

Hey, it's the holiday season; just trying to help and be helped!
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: quarterback on December 02, 2005, 11:54:40 am: Hey Roughy,

I can totally understand not wanting to 'build'. I bought a 'project cab' over a year ago and still haven't found the time to fix it up. I can't imagine how behind I'd be if I was starting from scratch.

As far as your offer/request for help, I'd say that you should just take advantage of the resource known as BYOAC. There's really no reason to pay somebody to help you with deciding where and how to layout your cab; I mean, that's what this forum is all about.

If you really would rather compensate somebody for one-on-one email advice instead of forum-posting advice, then that's fine, but I think it's unnecessary AND you're limiting yourself to one opinion. Some of these things are subjective and very knowledgable and trustworthy people will still come up with different answers to the same question. OTOH, if you post your questions here in the forum, then you get multiple sides of the debate.

Examples of things that are debateable:
(1) Angled joysticks for players 3 & 4?
(2) 2player CP v. 4player CP?
(3) LCD v CRT?
(4) Microswitches v. leaf?
(5) Dedicated 4-way or waste of CP real estate?
etc etc etc

I can tell you my firm beliefs on all of these, but you'll find that others completely disagree with me. In fact, your original question is a good example of this. "Build or Buy"? I (and others) would recommend "buy", while others CLEARLY think that "build" is a better choice. By posting here you get both sides of the coin and get to determine what's actually best for YOU.

My opinion is that you should save your money and compensate some of the great ARTISTS on this board to help you with your marquee, CP art and side art. There are some really talented people here and, if I had the money, I'd totally throw some their way to design my CP artwork instead of ME trying to find the 100+ hours it'll eventually take for me to put together something I like.

If you haven't visited the Artwork (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/board,13.0.html) forum, you should. I remember the first time I went there and/or the Project Announcements forum and saw what people were designing themselves and I was blown away!

My 2-cents.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 02, 2005, 11:57:53 am: I'll save you additional costs now. Just continue asking questions here. As long as you're prepared to wade through a consensus.

Or just PM one of us. Feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: quarterback on December 02, 2005, 12:12:50 pm: Quote from: mahuti on December 02, 2005, 11:57:53 am
I'll save you additional costs now. Just continue asking questions here. As long as you're prepared to wade through a consensus.

Hey! That's what I said!!!! (maybe in too many words :))

And, again, I think the consensus is a positive aspect of this method.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 12:15:38 pm: Great feedback again--and on the art side of things...

Well, I've been a designer-type for the past 10 or so years and already have my own logo for the recroom, so I'm good there--but the information in the forum is outstanding and works really well for me as far as additional ideas!

Thanks again.

And those of you volunteering should expect a PM soonish.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 06:25:21 pm: Okay, then. I've been having some really good conversations across the board today--there's been a lot of help coming my way and I'm still definitely going toward the Buy & Build mode.

That is, I'm going to buy a kit, build it and tell everyone I know that I did it myself. Like I'll ever see YOU people anywhere!

Beyond that, I'm still leaning heavily toward the mameroom UAII cabinet at this point.

I put together my attempt at a control panel (see below). I'll note that it's not aligned perfectly, but it should get across the ideas.

(http://www.bcdtest.com/roughy2p_try1.jpg)

That's a spinner up there by the P1 controls. Will that interfere?

I thought that by putting the player joystick and buttons at an angle like that--and maybe something a little less angled would be better--would allow the players to have a little more ass-and-elbow space when playing 2 player games. As an after thought, I guess this layout would make it suck for a game like Crazy Climber, which is one of the games I reallyreallyreallyreally want this for--damn. Guess I'm not done, but I'll still ask for some advice.

The other reason for the angle was to create some more space for a 3" trackball--Mameroom tends to think that it would be pretty cramped just stuck in between the joysticks and buttons in a straight line.

Any thoughts? Comments? Advices?
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: CheffoJeffo on December 02, 2005, 06:52:08 pm: How wide is that panel ?

I've got a standard 2-player-fighter-with-trackball in my Multi-Jamma -- it's a nice fit, but then I didn't have to deal with the trackball mounting plate (metal panel).

I don't think you'll be happy with the angles, but if that cab fits a 25" monitor, I would bet that you can fit everything and have them nicely aligned parallel to the monitor (but definitely do a mock-up with accurate measurements).

Cheers.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 06:56:20 pm: Looks like it is 29" wide and 16" deep. I created it using the program at mameroom, so I assume it's somewhat accurate.

You mention the trackball mounting plate--why is it that you didn't have to deal with one?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 07:07:06 pm: Okay, so try #2:

(http://www.bcdtest.com/roughy2p_try2.jpg)

Any updated thoughts? Seems pretty vanilla to me--which is absolutely fine!
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: CheffoJeffo on December 02, 2005, 07:10:30 pm: I just measured mine and it is 27" wide, so you should be fine.

Since I have a metal control panel, I just mounted the trackball directly to it and didn't have to worry the stuff that arises due to the thickness of wood (e.g. you need the trackball to be flush to the top of the CP, so those using wood need to either cut a hole and use the mounting plate or do some cool router work to achieve that).

I've upped a couple of pictures -- please excuse the lack of CPO or bezel as I haven't gotten to the artwork on my Multi-Jamma yet -- that should show you what I am talking about.

Cheers.

PS -- your buttons look pretty far apart.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 02, 2005, 07:25:18 pm: Generally I find that I like my buttons as close as they can be given the space. Almost touching
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 02, 2005, 07:43:19 pm: Okay, so one more try...

(http://www.bcdtest.com/roughy2p_try3.jpg)

That's an intentional little bump for the center 2 buttons on each side. Seems a little easier to keep them straight in your mind if you can pick them up with your peripheral vision...
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: quarterback on December 03, 2005, 12:08:52 am: I've found that I use my right hand for the spinner, so mine is on the opposite side as yours.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: Roughy on December 03, 2005, 03:57:29 pm: Anyone have any experience with Arcade Shopper?

http://www.arcadeshopper.com/emulation/kits.htm (http://www.arcadeshopper.com/emulation/kits.htm)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: quarterback on December 03, 2005, 04:03:59 pm: Quote from: Roughy on December 03, 2005, 03:57:29 pm
Anyone have any experience with Arcade Shopper?

http://www.arcadeshopper.com/emulation/kits.htm (http://)

Thanks!

Fixed link
http://www.arcadeshopper.com/emulation/kits.htm (http://www.arcadeshopper.com/emulation/kits.htm)
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: mahuti on December 03, 2005, 04:06:55 pm: I don't have any experience. Dollar for dollar though.. the UAII looks better.
Title: Re: Buy vs Build vs Buy & Build
Post by: markrvp on December 03, 2005, 08:39:38 pm: Quote from: CheffoJeffo on December 02, 2005, 07:10:30 pm

GOLDEN TEE, BABY!!!