The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Project Announcements => Topic started by: TravistyOJ on October 30, 2005, 09:17:01 pm
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I picked up a Double Dragon cab that was converted to a Neo Geo 1 slot for free! Thanks James.
Heres a link to the original thread: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=31467.0
And heres a link to the free thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44828.0
All right, now I got this cab, what should I do with it? Well, at first I was just gunna convert it to something else. I don't think anyone would mind either, since a DD really isn't all that rare. But I've never done a restoration project, and I really love DD, even though I played the NES version more as a kid, but the arcade version is just uncompareably better. :) So, now where to start. Heres some pics of the cab:
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First, I ripped off that Neo Geo CPO to see what I could get underneath. Check out the control underneath. I can see the arcade operator who converted this: "Quick disconnect terminals? No way! Im just gunna twist the wires up"
I was able to boot this cab up, but the monitor has power isseus, needs a cap kit, and has burn-in, so I think I might just get a new one. I see the Happ Pro Vision 19" on eBay all the time, they go for like $150.
The wiring job was just so amazingly awful and confusing, I have an extra JAMMA harness, so I think Im gunna rewire the JAMMA portion, and just keep the power as-is, b/c the power is fine, but the JAMMA harness is the most horrible mess, and no quick disconnect terminals, everythings just twisted together.
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OK, now I tried out what the guy who gave me this cab said to try. Goof Off 2! I was really excited and had illusions of restoring perfect sideart, instead it seems the cabinet had an oil based paint, and I tried several different ways to strip the paint, but it was either all or nothing. No way to save the sideart.
Oh well, I guess I'll peel the big sticker, fill some cracks with putty, sand, prime, and repaint it. Maybe I can turn up some Taito sideart stencils.
Did most of one side, it is really slow work, Im gunna try this with a hairdryer later. Ive done enough today. :)
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Good luck with the resto. I remember playing Double Dragon at a local roller rink when I was a kid. Seems like I always see them at auctions but I never win them. I'd still like to get a dedicated one someday. :)
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Looks like a good project! And I thought I was the only one who played DD at the rollercade ;)
All you need are some bullying teenagers pushing you away from the machine, stealing your game because they think they know how to play better than you... And you can't kick them because you're on roller skates- but you CAN get vengeance by roller-dancing better than them... whoops, my sad, tragic past is coming back ;)
I know what you're talking about with the sideart- I just picked up a Two Tigers cab (a tron conversion), and have been trying to restore it. I spent about 7 hours taking the two layers of vinyl off without destroying the cab underneath. Hair dryer + Patience is the key- the 24 year old vinyl was no match for that!
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In the search for artwork, I found this pic. Think I can use it? Once I vectorize it what's next? I'd really like to have adhesives printed rather than painting, I really don't think my first attempt at painting will be all that pretty. Where can I have this printed? What kind of price we talkin? Is applying a full size side art decal pretty tough to do right? lol, so many questions :)
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In the search for artwork, I found this pic. Think I can use it?
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First, I ripped off that Neo Geo CPO to see what I could get underneath. Check out the control underneath. I can see the arcade operator who converted this: "Quick disconnect terminals? No way! Im just gunna twist the wires up"
heh
FYI the pics in the other threads with dd having blue and red scheme (balltops and buttons) is correct. Plus DD and DD2 used leafswitches.
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Finally some updates! First of I was able to get a high-res pic of the taito sideart from a big fan of Double Dragon, check out his homage to it:
http://www.arcadefever.net/DOUBLEDRAGONCABINET/DOUBLEDRAGCAB.html
Once I got the image, I took my first stab at vectorizing it, The Taito sideart was perfect for me as a beginer, mostly just straight lines, but I did learn a lot of cool vector tracing techniques.
Also, I found out a friend of mine's dad runs a small printshop, so maybe he can cut me a deal on printing this out! I plan on just getting a small peice of printed vinyl from him, then testing it with a couple different adhesives, then trying the clear coat/sanding method James told me about. When all is said and done I think it will look sweet. Then once I am pleased with it, I will upload it to Arcade Art Library for all to use!
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I finally finished removing all that @%$#! vinyl adhesive.
Hair dryer + Patience is the key
Never have truer words been spoken.
OK, so now that I got it removed, before I get my sideart on there, Im gunna fill some of those corners where it looks like beavers had a nice snack, and some of those holes where some arcade operator went nuts with a drill. I found some Minwax Wood filler, the stuff is great, easy to work with, and hard as a rock after a half an hour.
If you use this stuff make sure of a couple things. 1. Don't take your time, put it on quickly, too much is no problem, since the next step is sanding anyway. 2. Make sure you have the opposite of whatever the stuff is. You dont want to get all over your hands, only to look at the label that says "remove with acetone" and say "Feck! I dont have any acetone!"
Well, I have filled some holes and built up some edges, tomorrow is sanding and the other side! :)
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wowwwwwwwwwwwwwww nice job !!!! i got your email about taking a picture of the all cab , but i didnt have time, i've been a bit busy at work ... i can see that you manage to do it well !!! i cant wait to see that cab finish !!!!
keep the good job.
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Your project is looking scarily like mine at this point - it's good to know someone doing a restoration is doing exaclty the same things as I am. ;)
I used that Minwax "binary-mixture" filler on mine last week as well to build up corners and fill where necessary. It is really good stuff, dries really quickly, and is surprisingly good to mold. After about 10 minutes the stuff is solid enough that you can shape it without it dripping all over the place, but soft enough to add more to whatever you're building up.
Looks like you're ready for some sanding and priming!
Here's a quick test to determine what kinds of primer to use (and it does make a difference):
-Take some nailpolish remover on a cloth, and rub it on the different surfaces of the cabinet. Paint should rub off on the sides that have water-based paint, but not on surfaces that have oil-based paint. Be sure to use a hard foam roller to apply.
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Thanks for the primer tip, but I dont think I will need to prime as I am going to apply the complete sideart as printed vinyl. Should I prime anyway?
So far done today, filled and sanded both sides, and cleaned and repainted coin door, next im gunna fill and repaint the front.
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Once I got the image, I took my first stab at vectorizing it, The Taito sideart was perfect for me as a beginer, mostly just straight lines, but I did learn a lot of cool vector tracing techniques.
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Whoops, skipped over the part with the printed sideart ;)
In that case I probably wouldn't bother with priming, as long as you can get the surface clean.
You said you repainted your coin door- what did you use, and how did you prep it?
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As for the coin door, I just lightly sanded it and spray painted it with Semi-gloss black. Dont know if it will turn out very good, I just did it, and it says its not completely dry until 24 hours. Is there a better method than this?
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Got a sideart question, look at how different these two DD cabs are. Which one do you think is closer to the real side art color, and what do you think happened to the art to make it like this?
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They look the same to me. There's some lighting differences, thats all; notice how all colors in the first pic are brighter and more vivid, as if the camera has a powerful flash and is standing too close to the cabinets. The second photo is in shadow as if the camera is far away or the flash is delayed.
That or just two very different camera apertures.
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Yeah, I think the first pic was from a camera with a really bright flash. Just wanted a second opinion. My Tatio sideart is further up, anybody let me know if any of the colors seem off at all.
Ok now on to another stupid question. Below is the drawer which holds the DD PCB. What is that stuff that looks like tin foil lined cardboard? Im guessing it was an FCC reuglations thing added to the cab to cut down on RF emission. I took it all out since it was torn up and rotting. Should I try to hunt down something exactly like this, or leave my drawer as it is now?
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I think I would remove the old (rot, yuck) and see if I could locate similar material. I would bet you could find something very similar at an art supply store or something. If you could not find anything and you have to have it you might try poster board + contact cement + tin foil and try making something that is similar and looks as it should. For looks alone I bet silver spray paint and poster board would do the trick.
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Fast Google Results
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Yasutomo Metallic Silver Paper
http://www.dickblick.com/zz112/45e/
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Nature Saver Metallic/White Poster Board
http://www.officedepot.com/products/Nature-Saver-Poster-Boards-x-Box/517944/
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RIV04031: Poster Board, 4 Ply, 22"x28", Silver
Link (http://www.business-supply.com/office_supplies_product_RIV04031_poster-boards-poster-board-4-ply-22-x28-silver.html)
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Cool thanks man, but I'm wondering, do I actually need it? I mean does it technically help anything? Does anyone know the function of it?
Also, when can i come by and pick up that free Ladybug stuff for my friend. Thanks James
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I'm not sure about the fucntion etc. You will want to post that to rgvac, raster list, or sci.electronics.repair
re: the parts - check your mail! ;)
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I can't think of a good reason why you'd need to have a metal-lined box, unless the DD pcbs either:
1) emit way too much RF power, and instead of fixing the problem they took the poor engineering approach to fixing the problem.
2) is susceptable to interference from other sources, ie.. fluorescents, power supplies, etc. Once again, if it were necessary, that would be a sign of poor engineering.
From my experience, (usually) arcade hardware is engineered for durability, so it might just be there to make absolutely sure that nothing could possibly interfere with the cabinets operation. So I doubt it's truly necessary, but if you're going to all the trouble to remanufacture your machine, you might as well make a replacement.
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As for the Foil lined paper, I am 99% sure that it was EMI related. I used to work for a computer manuf. (located in south dakota, hint .. cow spots) and designed cases. A large part of case design was not only heat related but had to pass FCC EMI testing, I didn't think that arcade games had to pass any testing, but who knows?
Anyway short answer, it should not effect anything by not replacing the foil paper, with the number of MB's not in cases in MAME cabs it doesn't seem to matter (unless you are selling them to hospitals or airports I suppose).
Curious, was the foil paper completely around the board or just under it. It would not do any good unless it encased the electronics. If it was just under it maybe it was just to make a better ground plane for the boards to be mounted to.
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It lined the bottom of the drawer and the bottom of a cover over the drawer, so when you slid it in, it was completely housed by the stuff. Thanks for all the input, I think Im just gunna leave it without unless I have problems.
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There ya go - here is a little thread from RGP that may bolster you in your decision -
Link (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_frm/thread/2823aee01f1604db?q=+The+Joy+of+the+Non-Anal+Collector&hl=en&)
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As for the Foil lined paper, I am 99% sure that it was EMI related.
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I didnt have to go to work today, you know what that means? Updates!! I did a lot today, i finished filling the front of the cab. The cab had 10 big holes drilled in the front for big industrial bars and other things that arent really necessary for home use. So I filled em with that wood filler stuff, sanded, then I primed, sanded, painted, sanded, and painted again! Yeah it was a lot of work, but Im pleased with it.
Now I know the top and back arent really things that matter how they look, but Im gunna do this to the top and back as well, why not, I still got lots of paint and primer left over.
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Man, I want to finish this cab so I can play Double Dragon, but in the mean time, I found an alternative. :)
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DUDE! You are like a boxer in training! No *** before the fight. Put ways the handheld, abstain until the REAL game is done...
;o)
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One small update. I was a bit disappointed today when I received what someone told me was an "Original Double Dragon bezel, not a repro". Well, not only was it a repro, it was a bad one.
Take a look. I have my original monitor bezel (the one with the 2 neo geo led board gouges) underneath the repro. In the first pic you can see, the dragons dont even have eyes! And they're claws are like lime green. And in the second pic, you'll see the convenient leaving out of the copyright information. I have emailed the guy, maybe he will work with me, but I have a feeling I have been ripped off.
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Um yeah, that does not look right.
But, press ahead even if you get stuck with the repro, it would do in a pinch, but do press the guy to see WTF?
Harumph.
edit: why would someone go THAT far to make a repro and then blow easy deatils like that? Don't get it. The colors you could explain away but no copyrite?
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Hey, just got a response from that guy, He sent me an email saying something like, "Well you can get a refund if u want but it is original" implying that I dont know what im talking about, so I sent him the pics and he's like "Oh, heres the address to ship it to" :) LOL. So I will be getting my refund, but the bezel hunt remains.
In the mean time, I am just awestruck how bad this repro is. I mean someone's actual thought process was "Ehh, skip the eyes, no one will notice if a dragon doesnt have eyes" The guy also said that he has sold 30 of these and hasnt had a single complaint. Either he is lying, or i am too picky.
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Its the misrepresentation that gets me. I can exchange some quality for some savings, but to say it was NOS is suspect at best.
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If it were NOS, chances are he wouldn't have over 30 of them!
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If it were NOS, chances are he wouldn't have over 30 of them!
possible but no probable ... great point
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Wow this restoration job looks rough...
Has it been more work than you expected so far?
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Wow this restoration job looks rough...
Has it been more work than you expected so far?
Well, its kinda hard to say. I am definitely doing more than I thought I would. But at the same time, its been pretty fun for me, I think I am really past the hard parts. I think this is a good time to set out my final battle plan :) Comments and suggestions are welcome. All that's really left to do is:
1.) Paint the back and top, just for the sake of completeness :) I plan on doing that tomorrow
2.) Purchase and apply sideart. I am starting to have second thoughts about this. I mean I'm looking at around $150 for the sideart, when I can just paint it black for free (I still have lots of paint leftover), and I am fairly confident it would look nice. But it might nag me in the future, since its not original. But then again, I mean its not exactly amazing artwork, its just the Taito logo. What do you guys think? I mean i Know its my wallet and ultimately my decision, but sideart or paint?
3.) Rewire JAMMA portion of cab
4.) Repair and recap monitor, I found a local guy who will do this for like $40 :) Ill be doing this sometime next week prolly. Unfortunately my Neo Geo monitor is about to bite the dust so I gotta get that repaired too.
5.) Tie up odds and ends, like bezel, control panel, t-molding, etc. BTW, anyone have any suggestions on a good place to get t-molding?
6.) Get a Double Dragon PCB, lol. Funny how I dont even have the game yet. Anyone want one they are sick of?
So I know that is a lot of steps, but it really involves more money than work. So for all you ppl out there who are thinking of doing a resto, keep in mind it will prolly take up more time and money than just buying a decent cab. Especially if you are picky about things like me, (see bezel posts above), but you will end up with pretty much a mint cab, that is all your own, and that you will be proud of. Oh yeah final step:
7.) Beat the crap out of Abobo again and again and again:)
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Hmmm, I need opinions for my sideart dilemma. What do you guys think about this dragon sideart from classic arcade grafix?
Pros: 1/3 of the cost, IMO looks cooler
Cons: Not original, doesnt cover the entire side
I think I am reaching a turning point in my arcade collecting. Do I go the path of what is better or what is orignal? Opinions please
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Hmmm, I need opinions for my sideart dilemma.
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Wow, 2 pages, I talk too much, :) Did some googling and played with photoshop this morning. I could do some custom sideart at conversion size, would probably only be $40-$50. What you guys think of this one. Paint the sides black and apply this sideart? I think it beats the hell out of the Taito generic.
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That looks pretty cool. Curious, were you planning on getting the DD boards or going jamma to jpac to pc for mame? Just thinking that if you were to set it up as a multigame, you might put that logo with the name of the other DD versions underneath. Or you could get all the boardsets and do a switchable setup.
I like the idea for the sideart, one thing you might consider is painting the side something oother than black. Maybe red on one side and blue on the other with the sideart on both?
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1 more: Possibly even having the red guy on the blue side and the blue guy on the red side, the title on both?
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Actually I plan on putting the DD jamma pcb in there, and using this as a jamma cab, switching other jamma boards i have in and out of it. This cab would be great for that since, i can rotate the monitor for vertical games. As for the mame idea, my Neo Geo cab is where i plan on putting that.....but thats further down the line.
As for the different colored sides, seems like a good idea, I will have to think about that one. So many options, lol
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Some quick updates.
Got the monitor fixed! It needed a cap kit and some solder around the flyback to be touched up.
Some things I have received in the mail since my last post: Double Dragon PCB, this one was kind of necessary. JAMMA harness, T-molding, Double Dragon Control Panel w/ Wico Leafswitch Joysticks, got that one at a steal for $10 :), I plan on doing some painting (all black for the cab, boring I know, but I like it), then throw all this stuff in there and I am nearing completion!
Then all I have to do is some little stuff like replace the joystick handles and get a new bezel and sideart and BOOM! I'm done :)
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*cough*
*cough*
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OK, OK, i know, this place has cobwebs, here are some updates. I think you are the only one reading this topic anymore James, thanks for your support :).
Painted the entire cabinet black, turned out good, nothing really spectacular looks like a black cabinet, but it is eons above what it was.
A while ago I won an Ebay auction on a control panel for Double Dragon, when I bought it I just wanted it for the artwork, since it was in pretty good shape, I got it for $10. When I got it, I realized that it came with 2 original Wico leafswitch joysticks, which made me happy :). I cleaned up the parts, and ordered new Wico Joystick handles and 2 actuator kits from ponyboy, who has awesome prices and fast shipping (Check him out :) ) I also got some Leaf switch buttons from Bob Roberts, but whats weird is this control panel has microswitches mountings for leaf switch buttons, so I have ordered some leafswitches to go with the control panel.
BTW, as for the Wico Joystick, I found this thread immensly useful.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=15839
Here are some pics of the control panel, the P1 start and P2 start buttons are just placeholders, they will be solid white. I have all the parts ready to go, This weekend is the big assembly. After this weekend all I will have to do is have custom sideart printed.
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Oh and I also got a Double Dragon bezel on ebay for $6 :)
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Suweet. A sharpie will touch up that cp nicely. Awesome sticks! What sideart did you decide on? Any pics of the whole cabinet at this stage?
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A sharpie will touch up that cp nicely.
Funny, after I posted that pic, I noticed all the white spots, and used a sharpie to touch it up. It felt kinda of weird using a sharpie to do it, but it turned out quite nicely.
As for pics of the cab, I will post some before I start assembly.
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A sharpie will touch up that cp nicely.
Funny, after I posted that pic, I noticed all the white spots, and used a sharpie to touch it up.
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OK, I worked on My DD cab quite a bit on Saturday. First I installed little stuff like leg levers, corner protectors, T-molding. Rebuilt the coin door, added coin mechs, door locks, etc. Then my experience with the JAMMA harness
Wow, frustration of all frustrations!
Lesson Learned: Dont skimp out on the JAMMA harness.
So I found a good deal on a JAMMA harness ($9), then I received it in the mail, first thing I notice, no English on it, all Japanese Kanji, and Im like no biggie, the JAMMA pinout is posted all over the place, then I notice some other things, missing wires for -5V (which of course DD needs), Coin slot 2, Coin Meter, Coin bulb power, Test switch, and there is a weird connector for the moniitor, so I was like ok, I can fix all that, soldered some wires, redid the monitor connector.
Here is another lesson learned, wire the JAMMA harness to the CP first, then put it in the cab, especially if you had the problem I did.
I think this harness must have been for a candy cab, cuz I didnt think about it earlier but it was freakin short. In wiring the control panel, I had mere inches of slack, and in the process broke a contact off of 2 of my joystick leafswitches. I cussed loudly many times. The speaker wires dont even reach the speakers :(. So I will either try to make it work, or get a new JAMMA harness, but I did get pretty much everything assembled, except Player 1 cant go down, and player 2 cant go up :(. A friend of mine has some extra leaf switch parts he will let me have, so that will fix that.
Im still waiting on the marquee and bezel to come in the mail. I ordered the marquee on Oct 27th from Canada, and the guy claims to have sent it 3 days after I paid, so either it got caught in customs or i got screwed.
Anyway, without further adieu (sp?), I present to you, pics!
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Some more pics
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FYI i happen to me few times with order from canada 7 weeks to receive vigilante cpo, and the guy claim that he ship it 4 days after he got the money, i saw the date on the stamp and he was right. so why does it took so long ?
the same thing happen with a pcb .
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Man that is looking good. What did you decide on for the sideart?
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Probably do a 24" square printed vinyl sideart of my custom artwork above, of course after some tweaking. I probably will place my order on Jan. 1, money's a bit tight right now.
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this one right?
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yar matey!! What you think?
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It's gonna look tight ;)
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Man, Spike's got some 5 o'clock shadow in that sideart. He could have at least shaved before they painted his portrait. :)
Actually, I think that sideart is going to look awesome on your cabinet. I'm quite jealous, as Double Dragon was always one of my favorites. Great job!
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I love the drawer. That is the major flaw with my 1 slot Neo... I have to move the whole cabinet to change the cart.
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Man, Spike's got some 5 o'clock shadow in that sideart. He could have at least shaved before they painted his portrait. :)
Actually, I think that sideart is going to look awesome on your cabinet. I'm quite jealous, as Double Dragon was always one of my favorites. Great job!
Yeah Travis, I gotta say it was really nice of you to store it for me while we worked on our back room and thanks to for fixing it up. Should I come by this weekend to get it?
:)
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LOL, Oh I havent laughed that hard in a while. No seriously though, I might eventually sell this. It can be yours if the price is right :). Let me know if you run across anymore empty cabs spacecadet, I want to do this again.
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I love the drawer. That is the major flaw with my 1 slot Neo... I have to move the whole cabinet to change the cart.
Ironically because of that drawer, I have seen a lot of Double Dragon's converted to Neo Geo MVS cabs.
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I would move my Neo to a Double Dragon if I had one for that reason.
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Its too bad the Neo Geo MVS Double Dragon game sucks, cuz to me it would seem funny if someone had a Double Dragon cab converted to Neo Geo that played Double Dragon.
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Some updates to an old project :) Finally found time to redo wiring, extend speaker wires, repair joystick leaf switches, and install leaf swith buttons. Wow that was a mouthful, marquee also came in. Just need to send sideart off to the print shop, which i just finished, then this cab will be complete. :)
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Sweet. I like the sideart alot.
Pics of the marquee installed?
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Ask and ye shall receive :)
Some before and after pics:
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Another before and after set
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That looks sharp!
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8) clean i love it !!!!