Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Everything Else => Topic started by: Dexter on October 25, 2005, 06:02:47 am
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Hi all,
I've mentioned a number of times on these forums about the freedom and unbiased nature of our press here in Ireland, originally in relation to the iraq war and american presidential election. Certain members, despite me providing links etc like to take pot shots and cheap snipes (especially on threads which I haven't even posted) at the fact that I mentioned that our media reported these events in such a way i.e. Dexters "unbiased media" etc.
Thought I'd post this, a study just released showing who has the real press freedoms:
"Nation's openness sinking after Sept. 11, northern Europe tops the list
The annual worldwide press freedom index from Reporters Without Borders shows the United States, which is supposedly spreading freedom and liberty throughout the world, is in a fast decline regarding the freedom of its own press."
Sample of rankings....
1. Ireland
44. America
:laugh:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=15331
http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/CM_2005_Eu_Eng.pdf
Please, the usual suspects, please please do the usual personal attack post and once again show us your mentality.........
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i was hoping to edge out macedonia this year, but i'm happy to gain two places on bolivia.
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Does the Irish media still tell Irish citizens that birth control is immoral?
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Does the Irish media still tell Irish citizens that birth control is immoral?
LOL! Love it. No, by the way. The influence of the god squad is much more prevailant in american media. Pat Robertson anybody?? Its been a long long time since the churches views dictated the medias actions.
The divide between church and media is continuing to widen even more due to the increasing diversity of the religious landscape here due to immigration etc. The vaticans views carry a lot less collateral over here due to the revelations of the last 10-15 years.
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Freedom is lame.
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So, is birth control legal in Ireland now?
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Well....no. But at least the press can talk about how lame that is.
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Don't ever talk to us about unbiased reporting or separation of church and state while birth control is still illegal.
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My last post was a fabrication... :-[
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Liar!
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The Irish are funny cause they are always drunk
-RetroJames McGovern
*hic*
are you lookin' at me?
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Don't ever talk to us about unbiased reporting or separation of church and state while birth control is still illegal.
BIRTH CONTROL ILLEGAL IN IRELAND?? ROTFHAPH!!
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Cheers for that Chad, I'd a lousy day in work and that cheered me up no end. Any more ingenious observations about my backward nation!! :)
Do you guys really live in caves? Will a leprechaun punch you in the bean bag if you insult his mother? How heavy is the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow? What do you like better, fighting or drinking?
Inquiring minds want to know!
/sarcasm
mrC
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What do you like better, fighting or drinking?
/sarcasm
mrC
Fights where our drinks don't get spilled, they're the ones we write the songs about ;)
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What do you like better, fighting or drinking?
Inquiring minds want to know!
/sarcasm
mrC
Put your hands together.... ;)
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Hey, just going on what my relatives in Dublin tell me... I know it was illegal as recently as way too recently, though had no idea if they had legalized it.
My wife and her whole family are Dublin imports. I don't think it is even possible for folks from there to be unbiased about anything. They're too busy dealing with Irish Catholic self blame and hate issues.
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And not just self blame....I blame and hate them too.
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MMM, guilt, blame, self loathing, and repressed anger without comprehension...
...anyone know why they drink so much?
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Roman-Catholicism made me the Curmudgeon I am today! Thanks Original Sin!
mrC
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For a country that prides itself so much on freedom, it's really disturbing how much censorship there is in US media. The first time I came over here I couldn't believe how bad it was, and it's only gotten worse.
I'm not sure how when or why it all started, but I'd bet that it's lazy unresponsible negligent parents that are to blame again.
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What censorship? A media outlet can report anything, and they often do, whether it is true or not.
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What censorship?
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For a country that prides itself so much on freedom, it's really disturbing how much censorship there is in US media. The first time I came over here I couldn't believe how bad it was, and it's only gotten worse.
I'm not sure how when or why it all started, but I'd bet that it's lazy unresponsible negligent parents that are to blame again.
Hows things fellow proto-ape friend! And theres me thinkinging Joe Dolan and the road to Dublin were the only good things to emerge from Mullingar!! :)
You're absolutely right though. We spend the first week of my (lives outside boston) adopted brother types holiday home to Ireland every year bringing him up to spec on whats really happening in the world.
Anyway, its not the parents fault, it's Marilyn Manson and Family Guys fault ;)
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What censorship?
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Grandpa Simpson: The last time the meteors came, we thought the sky was on fire. Naturally, we blamed the Irish. We hanged more 'n a few.
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I think your links provide the best comment:
"The index should in no way be taken as an indication of the quality of the press in the countries concerned."
Oh, and in case you missed it, your "silver bullet" you're offering us says nothing about bias. In case you missed it again, I'll quote from your own link:
"The index measures the state of press freedom in the world."
Yeah, I'm sure the freedom they measured by asking reporters what they thought about how free they were....I'm sure if they're more "free" to report, it makes it easier to be "free" of bias too. Right? That's what you're equating this to?
Hey, while you're at it, can you post us the survey where they prove that your cable television system is the best because only in Ireland can you get channel 57 too?
I'll continue to wait for your unassailable proof of non-biased reporting in your country. Telling us how free your reporters feel isn't even in the same neighborhood as unbiased reporting. Well, unless they're so free in their reporting that they TOLD you they were unbiased.
Oh...pssst....guys, I think he was talking about ME! :o ::)
Anyone else care to try to explain to Dexter the difference between "free" and "bias", and how one doesn't negate the other?
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YAY! You took your time but didn't let the side down. Thanks for proving my point again Drew ;D
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Get your unbiased reporting from a country that's two main powers are killing each other to prove which one is more Christian than the other.
By the way, you can all stop killing each other now, because Jesus likes me the most.
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Get your unbiased reporting from a country that's two main powers are killing each other to prove which one is more Christian than the other.
By the way, you can all stop killing each other now, because Jesus likes me the most.
Well I've never had much time for religion and many wars are indeed fought in the name of religion. But I have to say if you're talking about Northern Ireland then that conflict has very little to do with religion. Catholic and Protestant are just labels used to describe the two communities. The conflict is mainly about politics and historical grievances.
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Well I've never had much time for religion and many wars are indeed fought in the name of religion. But I have to say if you're talking about Northern Ireland then that conflict has very little to do with religion. Catholic and Protestant are just labels used to describe the two communities. The conflict is mainly about politics and historical grievances.
I am labeled a Catholic. I was under the impression that being labeled a Catholic had everything to do with my religion.
Do you have a link to an unbiased website that says being Catholic or being Protestant has very little to do with religion?
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Well I've never had much time for religion and many wars are indeed fought in the name of religion. But I have to say if you're talking about Northern Ireland then that conflict has very little to do with religion. Catholic and Protestant are just labels used to describe the two communities. The conflict is mainly about politics and historical grievances.
I am labeled a Catholic. I was under the impression that being labeled a Catholic had everything to do with my religion.
Do you have a link to an unbiased website that says being Catholic or being Protestant has very little to do with religion?
You're missing my point. The IRA is fighting its campaign to try and achieve a united Ireland, and to promote the interests of Northern Ireland's nationalist community who just happen to be mainly catholic. They are not fighting in the name of Catholicism.
The same applies to the Loyalists groups. They're fighting to keep northern Ireland as part of the UK not to promote protestant christianity per se.
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Do you have a link to an unbiased website that says being Catholic or being Protestant has very little to do with religion?
How about the IRA's original mission statement (via Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA)): "Since its emergence in 1969, its stated aim has been the reunification of Ireland which it believed could not be achieved without an armed campaign directed against British rule in Northern Ireland."
mrC
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You're missing my point. The IRA is fighting its campaign to try and achieve a united Ireland...
Correction, *was* fighting...
# 28 July 2005: The IRA release a statement that it is ending its armed campaign and will verifiably put its arms beyond use.
# 25 September 2005: International weapons inspectors supervise the full disarmament of the IRA.
If this was a conflict based on religious differences, they'd still be fighting, rather than having moved into the diplomatic arena.
mrC
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Well I've never had much time for religion and many wars are indeed fought in the name of religion. But I have to say if you're talking about Northern Ireland then that conflict has very little to do with religion. Catholic and Protestant are just labels used to describe the two communities. The conflict is mainly about politics and historical grievances.
I am labeled a Catholic. I was under the impression that being labeled a Catholic had everything to do with my religion.
Do you have a link to an unbiased website that says being Catholic or being Protestant has very little to do with religion?
Why even dignify him with a polite response. Grasshopper's exact words were the "conflict has very little to do with religion." Last I checked neither "catholic" nor "protestant" was synonomous with "conflict". Well...actually I've technically never checked, per se.....
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Why even dignify him with a polite response.
Usually, I don't. But it took all of 3 seconds on Google to show him how dense his comment was. I seriously think he really has his own internet that is completely devoid of information, and instead is only filled with dancing animated .gifs, that keep him entertained for hours.
mrC
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The Catholics were attacking Protestant churches and visa versa.
The unbiased shmokes, who hasn't check any facts says these conflicts has very little to do with religion.
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The Catholics were attacking Protestant churches and visa versa.
What corner of your arse did you pull this illegitimate pseudo-fact from?
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YAY! You took your time but didn't let the side down. Thanks for proving my point again Drew ;D
No problem, just doing what I can to make you feel like you're right. Thanks yourself for not answering my point. Whaddaya know, nobody else feels like pointing out where I've been wrong either. ::)
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What corner of your arse did you pull this illegitimate
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The Catholics were attacking Protestant churches and visa versa.
The unbiased shmokes, who hasn't check any facts says these conflicts has very little to do with religion.
Wait....are we talking about me? I thought we were talking about the media. ???
And, um, for future reference, when I say, "His exact words were...," followed by quotation marks, I am actually quoting, or repeating, for informational purposes, someone else's words. It's actually an extremely common grammatical device.
And either way, regardless of the accuracy of his original claim, your post put words in his mouth that did not even resemble what he actually said.
One last and......and for the record JoyMonkey, Dartful's ass is extraordinarily large and, more importantly, quite round -- bulbous, one might say. He didn't pull that "fact" from a corner, per se......more like from a soft, fleshy curve.
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I love the patriotic flare-up that explodes when the criticism comes from outside the country. People who would normally jump at the chance to criticize our liberally biased, conservative-corporate owned, self-serving, blood chasing, muck-raking, pullitzer chasing, neutered media, are suddenly behind them 100%. I don't know anything about Irish media, but I see no reason to dismiss the idea out of hand that it's superior to ours.
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Superior? Who knows. Unbiased on reporting the Iraq war and american elections which was my original point. DEFINITELY.
Our media also has the "disgusting" habit of showing the bodies of dead Irish soldiers who died in the line of duty returning home. Fancy that. Yourr media is obviously FAR superior taking its direction from the bush regieme to sweep it under the carpet in case it hurts his poll ratings.
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shmokes no one is defending our media, we are criticizing the Irish media.
Dexter, shmokes is on your side.
Although, I might be the one that's confused, when your posts are unbiased it's hard to tell what you're actually saying.
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I have a strong bias against pronouns.
There is a strong bias against pronouns in me.
Pronouns are bad.
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shmokes no one is defending our media, we are criticizing the Irish media.
To which you have had zero exposure.
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I think the problem with a lot of our media outlets (and this is not just confined to the United States) is that too many companies are owned by a handful of extremely wealthy generally very right-wing men. It's inevitable that such people tend to see world events from a pro-corporate pro-capitalist perspective and this gets reflected in the editorial policy of the companies they control.
Most European countries also have (generally respected) state sponsored but editorially independent media outlets, and although these outlets are probably biased in their own way as well, at least it means that people in Europe are exposed to different perspectives.
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To which you have had zero exposure.
The last time I was in Ireland I got my picture in the local paper.
"Dartful Dodger from Chicago visits the home where his grand parents once lived..."
It was a very unbiased article.
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So apparently, your one experience with the irish media backs up Dexter's claims :)
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I think the problem with a lot of our media outlets (and this is not just confined to the United States) is that too many companies are owned by a handful of extremely wealthy generally very right-wing men.
Another IMHO, but the more I talk to other people about this the more convinced I become that rational, critical thinking people on both sides have a reducing pool of "good media" to draw from. I have come to the conclusion that it is the "rich" part of TV owner's that is the problem, not their particular leaning.
In a word: advertising. The more thoughtful and clinical a person you are the less likey you are to buy something because of a flashy add. Hence there is simply no good reason for someone to pay to put a TV show on free-to-air for you, because you will lose them money. Theoretically cable should be different, but the number of adds they run show that they look at advertising figures just as much as 'free' TV. Sponsered TV has less demand to "pay for itself", so they can put whatever they want on (sometimes better, sometimes worse).
So start buying more product which advertise in the shows you like. ;D
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The BBC is paid for by the British taxpayers. There are no advertisements on BBC television (or radio if I remember correctly). Also, IMHO the BBC has the best news service in the world.
That said, Public Broadcasting in the US mostly sucks (though I do like to watch a PBS documentary every now and then). Not sure why.
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PBS sucks because it doesn't have to be good to exist.
Commerical TV and Radio have to have viewers/listeners to continue to exist. PBS does not, because it is taxpayer funded no matter how much it sucks.
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I think the only constraint on our press should be that they be prevented from issuing "We're going into Fallujah, promptly at dawn tomorrow", and "police will be raiding know drug houses tomorrow" reports.
Having been a soldier, and given that I am currently in the process of joining the local sheriff's reserves, I find both of these reports completely out of line.
I do fully support, and would welcome in any action that I am involved in, "heat of the action" and "after the fact" reports, however.
There were many acts commited during the recent catastrophes in Louisiana, that were reported by the press, that I think should be tried in court; but when the "freedom of the press" compromises the safety of our military, our police, or our citizens, the people responsible should be held accountable--just as they are in "freedom of speech" cases.
If a white supremacist incites violence against other races, he is not able (or, more appropriately SHOULD not be able) to hide behind the First Amendment.