Build Your Own Arcade Controls Forum
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: StormGiant on September 19, 2005, 11:49:08 pm
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I want an old-school feel to my CP. I always disliked the way the edge of the plexi/T-molding felt against my forearms - I remember the early days in arcades where the cab CP front edge was smooth and rounded.
So I built the top of the CP box out of 3/4" pine and rounded the edges with my router. I'm going to order the overlay from mamemarquees. I'll trim the overlay to the edge. Anyone out there go this route? Does the edge (lip) of the overlay bother you?
The pic is of the CP dimensions. Would it be better if I cut down the CP to a rectangle and then rolled the front of the overlay over the front round edge of the CP?
CP overlays are not cheap - also considering how long (too long) I've agonized over the CP art I just don't want to be disappointed with the overlay nor have my forearms be irritated by something I could've changed.
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All I have to say is
real games don't have plexi
You made the right choice. I have owned at least 100 REAL games, exactly ONE of them had plexi.
Plexi is the realm of the crappy conversion machine, it is not there to protect the art, it was there because the operator never filled in the holes in the control panel from the last 6 conversions.
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Growing up pretty much every arcade game I played had plexiglass installed, which is why, to me, it only feels like a real arcade cab if it has plexi. which is the same reason you like no plexi. Nothing wrong with being different, as long as you enjoy it.
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All I have to say is
real games don't have plexi
Who cares? Real games don't have a PC inside them either.....
Plexi is the easiest thing you can do to protect your artwork which is why it is so popular, not because it pretends to be original.
Also, make sure you also put a cool looking hump on the back of your cabinet.
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Personally I don't like plexi either. The only games I've played with it is Golden Tee 3d series. Not saying it is bad however, just not to my taste.
I am really pleased with the overlay I have from mamemarquees, the finish is great. I would also have to say this is much easier than plexi - plexi is a ---smurfette--- to work with IMO.
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- plexi is a ---auto-censored--- to work with IMO.
You know I keep reading about these plexi problems and it almost put me off using it but to be honest, I really don't know what all the fuss is about. ???
All my Lexan experiences have been without event. Didn't matter if I was using a router, spade bit, holesaw or just drilling, I took no special precautions and just ripped through the stuff like it was wood. I didn't run any of my cutting tools in reverse and did all my cuts at normal speed.
The stuff didn't even melt it just turned into swarf.
Either I did something different and don't know what it was, or there is some very different recipes out there for what we commonly label as plexi.
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Either I did something different and don't know what it was, or there is some very different recipes out there for what we commonly label as plexi.
Could be that it differs. It is usually called Perspex in the UK. To be honest I have never tried to make holes for buttons or whatever in it, but I have used it occasionally in the past and I always crack it. For me as I had to have artwork printed anyway it was just easy to get it done on a CPO, and stick it to my control panel. I could mount my sticks 'higher' than if I used plexi also.
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I've never had problems either cutting holes in plexi and the like. Regular forward and a reasonable speed. No big deal, but I have never used it on either of my cabinets. They were cut for friends' cabinets.
I AM having a problem now with my artwork from MameMarquees.com and getting it to stick enough to take the "abuse", ok from about 10 games of World Class Bowling, of "slamming" into the edge when really giving the trackball a spin.
It is about 1/8" in by about 6" long. I have no idea how to keep it staying down. Just a warning, also, any ideas? It has become slightly creased, so spray adhesive won't help. Maybe super glue or something....
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I AM having a problem now with my artwork from MameMarquees.com and getting it to stick enough to take the "abuse", ok from about 10 games of World Class Bowling, of "slamming" into the edge when really giving the trackball a spin.
So does it sit slightly proud of whatever the front edge of your cab is?
In theory mine should be protected, as it is flush with the front panel, but in reality is does sit a bit proud (I messed up the front panel slightly). Mine seems to be stuck down real well tho, haven't had any problems.
I wonder if some kind of edge trim might do the trick for you. Do you have a picture?
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Something for the edge would probably do the trick... I can try to get a picture up tonight when I get home from work.
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Plexi scratches, and scuffs over time making your art underneath look dull.
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Plexi scratches, and scuffs over time making your art underneath look dull.
And its better that your art gets scraches? Thats kind of the point of plexi, it gets scrached and scuffed, but your artwork doesn't.
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If you order a proper textured vinyl overlay it will not scratch. Mine's been in plave for a couple years with no scratching in evidence.
The only cab I own with plexi on the panel is a Dynamo that had been poorly converted to Neo-Geo. Repairing the previous owner's butcher job and putting a real CPO in place is high on my to-do list. And yes, the plexi is scratched all to hell and the artwork under it looks dull/
-S
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I have never seen scratches even on 20+ year old textured vinyl except where it was obviously hit with some sort of object. The damage I do usually see on those is cigarette burns, gashes, dirt and cracking at the corners.
You can avoid burns by not using your cp as an ashtray.
You can avoid gashes by not hitting your CP with objects.
You can clean up dirt with a wet rag or magic eraser.
The cracking however comes naturally, but chances are you won't be playing that MAME cab come 20 years.
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I prefer the feel of textured vinyl to smooth plastic on my CPs. The plexi covered CPs may look shinier, but that is all that they have going for them.
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Granted this is a Project Arcade-type cp box with 3/4" wood and not a Williams-type cab conversion with the overlay covering the top and front. So those of you who did just the overlay -no plexi- on the cp, are you satisfied with the edge? Did you do anything particular, other than in my case using a round-over bit?
I think over the past 2 years I've looked at everything on the Examples page, but can't recall which projects had a Project Arcade-type cp box with just the overlay.
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My CP is metal and the overlay wraps around it, so effectively there are no edges.
Pictures here (http://www.stingraysmadness.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=90&MMN_position=103:3:89)
-S
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So those of you who did just the overlay -no plexi- on the cp, are you satisfied with the edge?
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real games don't have plexi
Original Neo Geo CPOs were 1/8" plexi with the artwork silkscreened on the bottom. Take a look at any nintendo classic (Donkey Kong, Popeye, etc).. Plexi with silk-screened artwork..
I'm sure people could come up with more examples. Real games certainly did have plexi.
Every "real arcade game" I remember had plexi added by the operator, so to me, real arcade games do have it. The one's that have survived, at least.
"Real games" were built as cheaply as possible - out of particle board, silkscreened artwork where the plates didn't exactly line up.. I would think a DIYer could do better.
It's a matter of preference, in the end. I prefer the feel of smooth plastic to rough vinyl or cold metal.
I decided to spraypaint the CP on my neo geo, after figuring that getting the red and white paint masks cut was cheaper than having a CPO reproduced (would have to be custom for my 19" "gold" cab that I've redone in red). So far it looks amazing, much better than anything that rolled out of the factory, and I'll definately cap it off with plexi for the both the right "feel" and to protect it.
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My personal preference is rounded edge with textured CPO, but the only cabinet I have like that is Galaga. My Nintendo VS is close (rounded metal) and my Neo Geo has a very thin overlay that doesn't reach the rounded edge.
I pulled the plexi off of both my cocktail and Capcom conversion cabinets because it ran right to the edge and felt awful against my hands. On my showcase, my hand sits nowhere near the edge, so the plexi doesn't bother me (looks like crap, though).
At the end of the day, however, if I had to choose, I would choose a textured polycarbonate over a rounded metal edge ... just feels right to me.
I'm almost ashamed to admit that I play my Galaga panel everyday ... and it is not currently attached to the cabinet. Is that wrong ?
Cheers.
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Paigeoliver,
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Plexi and Lexan are two entirely different materials.
If you hit Plexiglass (Acrylic) with a hammer, it will shatter.
If you hit Lexan (Polycarbonate) with a hammer, it will scratch, or possibly gouge.
I use acrylic for monitor bezels because it is clearer, and more scratch resistant.
Most of the old CP's (Williams, Midway, Atari, etc...) used textured Lexan AS the artwork, so they didn't need a separate piece to cover it.
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Storm, if your top is only 3/4 thick, are you going to rool the CPO over the rounded edge? Because I don't think that is enough surface for the adhesive to hold on to. Just a Thought since I have a rounded edge on the front of my CP and have used Mamemarqees in the past.
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Jcrouse,
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Jcrouse,
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I like plexiglass ... keeps my CPO nice and clean
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Hey nice looking CP Sub Zero! Can you elaborate on your comment that 'there's no edge to the plexiglass if it's done correctly'?
Nice job!
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Storm, if your top is only 3/4 thick, are you going to rool the CPO over the rounded edge? Because I don't think that is enough surface for the adhesive to hold on to. Just a Thought since I have a rounded edge on the front of my CP and have used Mamemarqees in the past.
That is my current dilemma at this stage - whether to trim the CPO to within a 1/2" of the outer edge where the curve/round-over begins - or to cut the CP to a rectangle and roll over the front edge. Having never used polycarbinate laminate, I was assuming that rolling over the edge and continued 2" underneath front would be enough for the adhesive.
GameOver posted that the edge of the CPO can be sharp, which would be irritating, so I'm leaning towards rolling the CPO over the front edge.
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What I mean by "edge."
... is when the lip of plexiglass is exposed ... typically around the trackball and edges of the control panel.
Most people find it uncomfortable if there arms are resting on that plexi edge or if there taking a swipe at the trackball and hitting it.
My plexi overlay has no exposed edges ... the trackball hole has a bevel and the t-molding is a perfect fit around the edges of the control panel.
It's actually quite comfortable
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Apropos timing. I'm building some additional/alternate control panels so I was just going through the same thought process this thread kicks up. I have lots of 3/4" MDF and wanted to do some quick and easy panels with T-molding edges. The options I'm considering:
- Lexan/plexi. I still have some extry from other work. Have to scrap the 3/4" MDF and go find 5/8" (5/8+1/8 thing). Not easy to find 5/8" stuff here. Offset the slot for the T-mold. Route out the holes in the lexan. Need printed artwork that matches panel button layout. Or I could use contact paper or whatever else I can find. Can label buttons with custom artwork. Relatively complicated compared to the alternatives.
- Laminate. If this is avail in smaller pieces I'd like to try it (my CPs are all a mere 24.5" x 7.5"). I can do some cool colors and the surface is damn near indestructable. I'm a little worried about lining up the t-molding so there's no lip from the laminate. Also don't want to deal with 4x8 sheets of the stuff. Routing and chipping issues are likely to be comparable to Lexan. No need for artwork (plus and minus).
- Happ pica vinyl (http://www.happcontrols.com/vending/acesor/49057200.htm) or Parts Express vinyl (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-018). Twoud be best if I could get it in small bits since I need so little. Happs is $5 a foot plus shipping. Parts Express is like $15 a roll. Easy sleazy. No artwork to choose, fold the edges under and bang on some T-mold. Seems to be the easiest. Texturing is a plus. Color choice is more limited (black seems to be popular).
- Rustoleum enamel paint (http://www.rustoleum.com/Product.asp?ddf=162&frm_product_id=18&SBL=1). This oil-based paint dries like a hard plastic. Glossy. Great for durability. And I can custom mix the colors and/or do gradients. Very cheap I think (can buy in half-pints and have enough). Might look too home-made though. Can cover with poly or another clear coat.
I have a black painted cabinet. Not sure how laminate will look on that cab but am inclined toward that or vinyl. I'm torn with possibilities but find solice in the fact that I can build many of these things, try different things on each panel, and upgrade or make changes in the future. Not too many downsides except for time and money I guess...
-pmc
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Happ pica vinyl (http://www.happcontrols.com/vending/acesor/49057200.htm) or Parts Express vinyl (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-018). Twoud be best if I could get it in small bits since I need so little. Happs is $5 a foot plus shipping. Parts Express is like $15 a roll. Easy sleazy. No artwork to choose, fold the edges under and bang on some T-mold. Seems to be the easiest. Texturing is a plus. Color choice is more limited (black seems to be popular).
I used Happs pica on the CPs for my cocktail and have been *very* happy with it in terms of feel. But then, I wanted a completely black box with coloured controls, so the artistic aspect (e.g. no CP art) didn't bother me.
Cheers.
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I am also not sure if I want the heads of carriage bolts exposed or not.
I like having exposed carriage bolt heads - most machines I remember did this, including a lot of control panels I have taken apart for parts.
I know a lot of people prefer the 'cleaner' look of using t-nuts however, not possible with a metal panel tho.
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This is a bad picture but you can just about see how I did mine. The rounded edge is two thicknesses of 18mm (3/4") MDF glued/screwed together. I manually rounded the top & bottom off, and covered with Happ vinyl.
You can see a white line between the rounded part and my CPO - this is the edge of the CPO being picked up by the camera flash. It is not usually too noticable, and is not due to the CPO being too thick or CP being too high but rather I rounded the curve off a little too much. In hindsight I could have put a control panel in and filled up to the CP level, I didn't even notice it at the time. It is probably only <1mm out anyway...
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Plexi scratches, and scuffs over time making your art underneath look dull.
Yes, but you can also polish shallow scratches out of plexi very easily.
Mike
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Plexi scratches, and scuffs over time making your art underneath look dull.
Yes, but you can also polish shallow scratches out of plexi very easily.
Mike
You can also re-paint things, but most people want durable solutions with little to no maintenance.
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I am also not sure if I want the heads of carriage bolts exposed or not.
I like having exposed carriage bolt heads - most machines I remember did this, including a lot of control panels I have taken apart for parts.
I know a lot of people prefer the 'cleaner' look of using t-nuts however, not possible with a metal panel tho.
I have to respectfully disagree with you. You certainly can do away with carriage bolt heads on a metal CP. Cut the bolt heads off and weld the studs to the inside of the CP. Nothing to it.
Inside:
(http://www.stingraysmadness.com/images/pagemaster/weldedstuds3.jpg)
Outside:
(http://www.stingraysmadness.com/images/pagemaster/cpoon1.jpg)
Note that the second picture is very old. The sticks have since been swapped for a matched set of blue balltop Wicos, which looks much swankier. ;D
-S
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I like having exposed carriage bolt heads - most machines I remember did this, including a lot of control panels I have taken apart for parts.
I sometimes like the look of carriage bolts on a CP. I don't think it's a requirement to hide all attachment devices. They can look asthetically pleasing too.
Also, one thing I like about plexi/Lexan is that you can pop if off and replace the artwork any time you want.
I used Happs pica on the CPs for my cocktail and have been *very* happy with it in terms of feel.
I want to try it. Anyone have any extra they want to sell me? I only need like 25"x8" or so. Some of you with Frankenpanels or people who sided their whole cab probably have scraps that would fit my need.
-pmc
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I was considering using plexiglass and also having a rounded front edge. The way to achieve this would be to inlay the plexiglass into the wood. I don't want to route out a large area. So instead I am considering gluing a strip of wood to the front and then using a router to round over that strip.
I can obtain 2mm plexiglass locally but the thinnest wood I can obtain is 4mm. So I'd have to route out the original sheet of wood by 2mm before gluing on the strip. I've drawn a diagram to illustrate what I mean.
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I personally prefer to not use acrylic/polycarbonate over CPs, but I have used it. If you are going to use it, and you do not want a sharp edge, the simple answer is to make a bent acrylic cover that wraps the front edge of the CP. Bending acrylic is not that hard. It can be done with inexpensive tools. It does require some planning to get right.
I have access to a wide format color plotter so acrylic allows me to have protected artwork for the cost of the paper. and my CP allows for no exposed edges, except the admin access opening, which has a flame polished radiused edge.
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I have to respectfully disagree with you. You certainly can do away with carriage bolt heads on a metal CP. Cut the bolt heads off and weld the studs to the inside of the CP. Nothing to it.
Nice job! :) Perhaps I should have said it is easier for most people to hide the bolts on a wood panel than metal.
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I personally prefer to not use acrylic/polycarbonate over CPs, but I have used it. If you are going to use it, and you do not want a sharp edge, the simple answer is to make a bent acrylic cover that wraps the front edge of the CP. Bending acrylic is not that hard. It can be done with inexpensive tools. It does require some planning to get right.
I have access to a wide format color plotter so acrylic allows me to have protected artwork for the cost of the paper. and my CP allows for no exposed edges, except the admin access opening, which has a flame polished radiused edge.
Interesting.
Can you elaborate on how you bend acrylic as I might be interested in using that method.
Thanks in advance.
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dude, just get your artwork printed on self adhesive vinyl. thats what i did for my Mamestrosity and i havent any problems since. no plexi, no lexan, no bending or melting...i just cut it with an exacto knife and stuck it on there like sideart. it cost a little more for the adhesive vinyl, but i dont have to worry about smudges or anything. check out my site to see the results if you are skeptic ;)
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Lots of good info in this thread. I have one more related question cuz I want to order some stuff now...
What's the diff between Parts Express vinyl and Happ Pica? I don't need much, so Happ will have to charge me a $10 handling fee plus their reportedly outrageous shipping. If the Parts Express stuff is functionally the same, I think it's the way to go. But is it "just like" the Happ stuff?
-pmc
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Happs only sells the Pica Vinyl in complete rolls. VERY expensive! I went with the Parts Express stuff and it works and looks great!
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PartsExpress vinyl looks AMAZING. Though I think it only comes in 24" wide?
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PartsExpress vinyl looks AMAZING. Though I think it only comes in 24" wide?
You are correct. 24" wide only. Worked for what I needed.
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Happs only sells the Pica Vinyl in complete rolls.
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I called them multiple times in the past and was told that they only sell it by the roll.
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Would using vinyl be the best method if you have a modular cab? I was contemplating plexi but to have to use a separate piece for each module...I wasn't so sure about that.
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Would using vinyl be the best method if you have a modular cab?
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Actually, using a reverse printed, textured Lexan, like was used on alot of the early games (Tron, Robotron, Joust, etc...), would be my first choice regardless.
It's only .010 thick, so cutting holes in it isn't difficult, but it has the art protected behind the Lexan, so durability isn't an issue.
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Personally I don't like plexi either.
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I called them multiple times in the past and was told that they only sell it by the roll.
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I personally prefer to not use acrylic/polycarbonate over CPs, but I have used it. If you are going to use it, and you do not want a sharp edge, the simple answer is to make a bent acrylic cover that wraps the front edge of the CP. Bending acrylic is not that hard. It can be done with inexpensive tools. It does require some planning to get right.
I have access to a wide format color plotter so acrylic allows me to have protected artwork for the cost of the paper. and my CP allows for no exposed edges, except the admin access opening, which has a flame polished radiused edge.
Interesting.
Can you elaborate on how you bend acrylic as I might be interested in using that method.
Thanks in advance.
At this point this is a bit off topic but anyway...
I will direct you to the monumental "Mission Control" thread. The link should drop you at about page 12. Starting at page 9 there are techniques and EXTENSIVE discussion about plastics bending. Pack a lunch ;)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13118.440
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PartsExpress vinyl looks AMAZING. Though I think it only comes in 24" wide?
Thanks for the feedback Ray. I'll order some up. I need 24.5" wide so I guess I'm turning that roll sideways!
-pmc
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You can buy Vinyl from Ponyboy. Same price as Happ but possibly cheaper shipping.
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I have a mamemarquees cpo without any lexi / plexan and it still looks like the day I applied it. Even with lots of abuse it still looks great. Haven't seen any fading either.