The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls
Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: JoyMonkey on September 02, 2005, 11:22:49 am
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I've been going through CNC training for the last few weeks and after playing with an Asteroids machine yesterday I'm thinking of trying to make some volcano buttons. Are there any detailed plans/drawings out there? What is it that's been stopping people from making reproductions of them?
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I've been going through CNC training for the last few weeks and after playing with an Asteroids machine yesterday I'm thinking of trying to make some volcano buttons. Are there any detailed plans/drawings out there? What is it that's been stopping people from making reproductions of them?
I'm pretty sure that someone does make repro cones. Can't think of who that is off the top of my head. I'm not sure about the actual button though.
Edit: Just came to me. It's Gamecab. http://www.gamecab.com
-S
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If you make the full button, I'll buy em. Especially if you can make em with everything I need to just "plug and play" with my IPAC. $60 a pair?
I dunno but I'm sure you'd get paid.
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I'm just toying the idea of making one or two at the moment. If it seems feasible maybe I'll do a run of them in the future, but who know what they'll turn out like right now.
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rdagger has had some success with the plastic button mold:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42155.0
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Were you trying to make just cones, or complete buttons? Did you have a look at my idea posted here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=40114.msg365070#msg365070)?
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Buttons or cones? I posted dimensioned plans for both short and tall volcano cones in this (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=11123) thread a while back.
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Were you trying to make just cones, or complete buttons? Did you have a look at my idea posted here (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=40114.msg365070#msg365070)?
Complete buttons. I've got a few ideas that I'll try out next week, hopefully something useful will come of it.
I'm going to see if I can get my hands on a small sheet of transparent red acrylic and machine the 'nipples' out of that. I know that I've got clear acrylic, but red is a little harder to find.
I'm going to machine the cones out of aluminum, although I don't think I have a v-bit with the correct angle.
I'll call a few distributers and see if I can get some samples of pushbuttons with LEDs. Looks like Elma make some that would work (http://www.elma.com/us/products/rotary_components/Front%20Panel%20Components/77).
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I'd buy a few full buttons.
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The volcano buttons are quite a simple device, but without the molds to make new parts, they'll have to be made by hand.
The parts are:
- the microswitch (still made by Cherry)
- the lens cap
- a brace that holds them all together.
And that doesn't take into account the LED assembly. And I didn't count the cone since that *is* being made by several people.
A couple years ago I asked Cherry if they'd consider making the button assembly again. They get at least two calls like mine a week. For $25,000 they'll consider it. That's how much it would cost to get new dies made.
So if you can machine some new dies, go for it!
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Has anybody got a spare volcano button that they could loan me? It would really help if I could see exactly how the thing is put together.
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JoyMonkey, I will have to some testing on my two spares to see if the LED works. One of the LEDs on my asteroids cabinet isn't working. I'd let you borrow that one. PM me.
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Just wondering, whats a V-bit? Do you mean you would use a form tool to create the taper? If so wouldnt you just turn the profile?
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Just wondering, whats a V-bit? Do you mean you would use a form tool to create the taper? If so wouldnt you just turn the profile?
I meant v-groove bit, I'll be making it on a cnc table mill (although I do have a friend with a cnc lathe...). If I can get an acrylic prototype to work, I'll splash out for a v-groove bit that can handle a 1/2" aluminium plate.
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Ahh gotcha! :)
Pretty much any kind of v-groove bit should handle ally as long as you progressivly remove the stock. I dont know what kind of CNC milling m/c you have but if you have a CNC programmable tilting chuck, or a tilting head and rotational chuck, you should be able to do it with a regular end mill.
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Ahh gotcha! :)
Pretty much any kind of v-groove bit should handle ally as long as you progressivly remove the stock. I dont know what kind of CNC milling m/c you have but if you have a CNC programmable tilting chuck, or a tilting head and rotational chuck, you should be able to do it with a regular end mill.
My skills are still maturing, but I'm 99% sure that my machine has a stationary chuck, so I'm going to need a 90 degree v-groove bit or do a painstakingly slow 3D mill. The cone is the least of my worries really, I'm still unsure of how the microswitch and the whole assembly attaches to the CP
I've ordered some sample Elma microswitches with LEDs, so hopefully things will be a little clearer once they arrive and I get a look at an original volcano button (thanks SirP!).
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I got the sample switches today and they're not at all like I was expecting. That's not necessarily a bad thing though; I didn't realize the lens was included with the switch and it looks about the right size for a start button! The lens is a little rough on top if you look really close (see the photos below) and I haven't tested the LED yet, but it's looking promising!
Oh yeah, these go for $4.70 each; which is a lot less than I was expecting. So if all turns out well I should be able to do a run of these for pretty cheap. Hopefully the LED doesn't only illuminate when the switch is closed (finger crossed).
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/5241/switchypoo16nh.th.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=switchypoo16nh.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6619/switchypoo28fg.th.jpg) (http://img196.imageshack.us/my.php?image=switchypoo28fg.jpg)
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JoyMonkey, I think I will send you both my extras.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/starts.jpg
The one on the left is an actual Cherry. The one on the right, no idea. No idea what terminals do what. It appears it could possible a DPST switch.
Also, the Cherry is from my asteroids and the LED does not work.
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JoyMonkey, I think I will send you both my extras.
Thanks!
After having a second look at the switches I got and comparing to Tailgunner's cone drawings, I think the lens on these is way too small (it's about 3/16" diameter). Looks like it'll need some kind of sleeve to bring it to the required size. I'll get exact measurements of this switch tomorrow.
The LED is 2v 25mA, so I'll need to dig out a 120 ohm resistor to test it out with 5v, right?
Edit: Here's those exact dimensions
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Just to let you know i'd be interested in a couple for my Domino's cab....keep up the good work !
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I have owned plenty of these button on plenty of machines and really I can't see what the big deal about them is. I am somewhat of a purist, but I wouldn't think twice about simply drilling out a panel for a bigger button to replace them. Its not like they add ANYTHING to gameplay, or anything else.
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I'm going to make a test CP today; what diameter hole do the original buttons need?
I'm guessing it's 3/4"
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I'm going to make a test CP today; what diameter hole do the original buttons need?
I'm guessing it's 3/4"
Might want to have someone double check that number, for some reason I am thinking it is less than that.
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I just want to buy a pair of buttons pre wired to simply PLUG right into my ipac and have the LEDs light when appropriate. I can then wire the switches normally.
I just dont understand all the Diodes and Resistors and whatnot that I would need just to get these things to "light" off of my IPAC.
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Link (http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=141111&pa=141111PS)
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- Ahigh
That's purdy; it would be great if that cone was the same size as the Atari cones, but they're teeny tiny I'm afraid (0.315" diameter as opposed to the 1" diameter of the Atari cone) :(
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I have owned plenty of these button on plenty of machines and really I can't see what the big deal about them is. I am somewhat of a purist, but I wouldn't think twice about simply drilling out a panel for a bigger button to replace them. Its not like they add ANYTHING to gameplay, or anything else.
I'll have to disagree. Volcano buttons are unique to Atari games of the golden era, and most people haven't seen one since. They may not add anything to game play, but they definately add to the nostalgia of a cab that uses them. I though they were cool in the 80's, and I still do, to the point that I've repaired and refinished control panels so I could replace oversized buttons with volcanos.
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Link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6211572934&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1)
JoyMonkey, Note how those cones are a different angle than the onces I sent you.
The black cones on my asteroids are the same 45 degrees as the silver cones I sent you. I remember the thread with the dimmensions had the 30 degree cone. It's all cherry switches to you will notice. So maybe several different sizes were used.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/SirPoonga/asteroids/cp.jpg
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POONGA! What the hell game is that Sunsoft overlay from?!?!?
I'm really intrigued, since I used to work for them.
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would these work?
(http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_8331.jpg)
if you took the led out and added one of them led switches a few post back?
i don't know what the switch looks like so i don't know if these are close to what u want?
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Nah, these are WAY too small....
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POONGA! What the hell game is that Sunsoft overlay from?!?!?
I'm really intrigued, since I used to work for them.
If you knew what was in the cabinet I'd like to know too :)
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So what's the latest with this post? Are we any closer to getting some volcano buttons?
I'm probably in for 2 if so.
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bump. Any updates?
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Has anybody got a spare volcano button that they could loan me? It would really help if I could see exactly how the thing is put together.
Yes. I have a pair I'm not using at the moment I'd be happy to loan for such a project, JoyMonkey, if you're going forward with it.
(I realize this is an oldass thread)
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Has anybody got a spare volcano button that they could loan me? It would really help if I could see exactly how the thing is put together.
Yes. I have a pair I'm not using at the moment I'd be happy to loan for such a project, JoyMonkey, if you're going forward with it.
(I realize this is an oldass thread)
Ahhh... yeahh. Just send them to my home address ;D ;)
Just kidding, SirPoonga loaned me a couple of his but I didn't get anywhere with them and decided to pack it in. I just returned his buttons last week as a matter of fact; they were sitting in my jacket pocket for months!
I'd never be able to make replacement switches that match the old ones, I think that's really what needs to be done here.
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This place has them, but they are $10.
http://www.pinball-signs.com/NEWPARTS/SWITCHES.html
Darryl
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Just kidding, SirPoonga loaned me a couple of his but I didn't get anywhere with them and decided to pack it in. I just returned his buttons last week as a matter of fact; they were sitting in my jacket pocket for months!
BTW, did you try putting the cone all the way on the knockoff? Notice how the knockoff was a different thread. That really annoys me and leads me to believe the cone is original but the switch is replaced before I got it.
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This place has them, but they are $10.
http://www.pinball-signs.com/NEWPARTS/SWITCHES.html
Darryl
Wow! How have I never seen these before? Looks like he's out of stock right now though, I will try emailing him to see if they're NOS or recently manufactured copies.
I don't think $10 is too bad for them either. Now if someone was still making those aluminum cones; why did I give SirP back his buttons so soon, dammit! (kidding)
BTW, did you try putting the cone all the way on the knockoff? Notice how the knockoff was a different thread. That really annoys me and leads me to believe the cone is original but the switch is replaced before I got it.
I noticed that alright. Strange that a company would go to the trouble of making knockoff copies of the switch and not pay attention to the thread size.
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Charlie at gamecab found some replacement switches with the correct thread. I bought three of them. I'll look tomorrow to see if I can get you a supplier and part number.
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Was it this one?
http://gamecab.com/switchsolution.htm
(http://gamecab.com/images/bandswit.jpg)
That one doesn't include a lens though.
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Was it this one?
http://gamecab.com/switchsolution.htm
(http://gamecab.com/images/bandswit.jpg)
That one doesn't include a lens though.
It is that one and I bought the lenses at the same time. I was very excited to open the box when I got it so I opened it in the car. One of the lenses now lives somewhere in/under the passenger seat.
Do you want me to make a pic of the button with the lens in the volcano sleeve?
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Do you want me to make a pic of the button with the lens in the volcano sleeve?
Are you kidding?
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It is that one and I bought the lenses at the same time. I was very excited to open the box when I got it so I opened it in the car. One of the lenses now lives somewhere in/under the passenger seat.
Where did you buy the lenses?
Do you want me to make a pic of the button with the lens in the volcano sleeve?
Sure, if it's not too much trouble.
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So it may be coming together after all... let me know if you do end up needing an original or two for reference. I have a pair sitting in a drawer, a pair on a spare Space Duel panel, and a pair on the AD cab that isn't going to be working any time soon.
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Actually, I think I might just give in and buy a couple.
I can't make the aluminum cones myself; not without using 4 times as much aluminum as necessary, and I doubt I could tap them correctly anyway. But I do know a guy with the correct equipment that probably could make them, next time I see him I'll ask about it.
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3 pics for you. Here are the first two:
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Okay, the Newark InOne part numbers are:
Microswitch: 11-131.825N $12.35 each
Lens: 11-931.2 $1.10 each
I didn't buy LEDs with these. I'm not sure if they take a special one, but there are just two sockets inside the top that you should be able to pop your own LED. There are terminals on the bottom to hook them up to power.
Below is the pic without the Repro Cone:
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Those look pretty sweet.
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That does look good. Does it click like an original?
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I'll check when I get home but I don't remember a real click to the originals. they're definitely microswitches but nonclicky ones.
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That does look good. Does it click like an original?
The new ones do click very distinctly. My originals are pretty worn out, so it's hard to compare.
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Ouch. $13.45 + LED + cone is about what you could get an old one for (assuming you can find them)...
Sweet find nonetheless.
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The point is not to get them cheaper, the point is to get them easier.
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I would pay around $25 bucks (or maybe more) for a full Assembly with an aluminum cone.
Would someone please just make these things already!
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The point is not to get them cheaper, the point is to get them easier.
or at all...
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I'll check when I get home but I don't remember a real click to the originals. they're definitely microswitches but nonclicky ones.
Wierd, I remember the originals being very clicky. Anybody confirm or deny?
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I'll check when I get home but I don't remember a real click to the originals. they're definitely microswitches but nonclicky ones.
Wierd, I remember the originals being very clicky. Anybody confirm or deny?
Me walks up to the asteroids machine. Yep, clicky.
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I've had that gamecab info bookmarked for a while now. Its nice to see the pics of it all together. It looks great! Always nice to have options eh?
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Me walks up to the asteroids machine. Yep, clicky.
All the Atari volcano buttons I have used have been clicky too, fwiw.
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Mark, do I see a little gap between the inside edge of the cone bezel and the lens?
Still, looking pretty darn good. Do you recall if they offer the lenses in other colors?
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Mark, do I see a little gap between the inside edge of the cone bezel and the lens?
I was wondering the same thing, but I think part of it is an optical illusion since the 'core' of the button is more visible than the outer edges. But if you look at the enlarged pic, it seems like the button pretty much fills the center hole of the cone
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42509.0;attach=41763)
Maybe we could get a pic looking straight down onto the top of the button in the cone.
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It fills the hole. There is a white diffuser inside the lens. What looks like the "gap" is actually solid translucent plastic.
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Sweet!
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I got hold of a few NOS switch assemblies today and added some more photos and info on the Cherry switch to the Pushbutton page on the Wiki (http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Pushbuttons#Atari_Volcano_Buttons).
I haven't been talking to my manufacturing contact yet, but I'll see if he could do a small run of cnc'd cones, as well as some cast lenses and switch-holders for the Cherry switches.
Does anyone know the actual thread size of the cones or switch-holders?
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Hello all,
I don't know if there are still plans in the works to make the aluminum cone bezels. If there is I came across some cool pictures of different color lenses for the EAO switch That is being looked at as a replacement switch. Newark doesn't have them listed on their web page but I found them listed on Beckwithelectronics.com. The site is mostly text and my browser wouldn't show the images but I digress. I found the pictures on another web page that wasn't in English so I didn't pay attention to the site. Anyways I'm going to try and contact Beckwith Electronics and pick up a couple of switches with different lenses. I still need to find the aluminum cone though. I'll post again once I have everything If any interst is generated.
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Here is the other lens picture.
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I've been talking to my local rep and I'm looking into a bulk order of the EAO switches from the manufacturer (these will be discontinued in a few months so its now or never). They're sending me some samples so I can compare.
They are pricey though, I'm torn between buying these switches (the easy, expensive way) and having reproductions of the Cherry holders made (the tricky, more authentic, maybe even a little more expensive way).
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If you find that the EAO switches feel okay, then no one would ever know from looking at the top of the control panel that they aren't the original switches.
I would definitely buy some more of these switches.
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I've been talking to my local rep and I'm looking into a bulk order of the EAO switches from the manufacturer (these will be discontinued in a few months so its now or never). They're sending me some samples so I can compare.
Do you think it would be possible to just buy some of the different colored lenses?
Do you think that they could be used for replacements of existing Cherry volcano buttons?
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I know the lenses are sold separately but I don't think they will be a direct replacement for the original Atari lenses.
I figured that these switches are about to be or already were discontinued because the 11 series switches aren't even featured on the EAO main web page. Even though it's still in the picture of their products.
Lets keep the drive alive and save the volcano.
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I know the lenses are sold separately but I don't think they will be a direct replacement for the original Atari lenses.
Yeah, I thought they looked similar but they are, indeed, different:
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I'm in. Put me down for four switches. I like the red lenses. Call me a traditionalist. But I still need cones.
Darryl
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Obviously, Joymonkey, I'm in on whatever you end up with. Plus I'll buy you a cruller.
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I got the EAO samples yesterday and they look pretty good, though obviously not 100% identical to the Cherry switches. The 'neck' of the switch is a good bit shorter and the lens is longer, so the lens pokes out of the cone about 1/8" more than the original. Also, the switches activation distance is about twice that of the original and the red lens is a much brighter color that the originals.
I'm going out of town for a few days, but I'll take a few photos (lit and unlit) when I get back.
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That's still pretty sweet and most people would never notice.