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Main => Consoles => Topic started by: SirPoonga on August 23, 2005, 10:53:44 am

Title: new NES
Post by: SirPoonga on August 23, 2005, 10:53:44 am
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143042
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: namzep on August 23, 2005, 10:55:19 am
I've seen some info on that system.  It looks great but I'm really curious to see how it plays the games.  I especially want to get the wireless NES controllers that that company is also selling.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 11:04:15 am

I definitely want one IF it's better than the NeoFami on a chip that is inside it... which it may not be.  Those NeoFami chips are notoriously buggy.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Stingray on August 23, 2005, 12:54:52 pm
It's certainly the slickest looking Famiclone that I've seen. I expect I'll buy one.

-S
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: SirPoonga on August 23, 2005, 01:36:49 pm
I don;t think I'll get one, I have nester and a dreamcast :)
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 23, 2005, 01:53:56 pm
As I've said before, it's pretty.

"The hardware's actually much more powerful than the original NES. We'll support 16 colors instead of 4. We do support stereo sound, and we did write in a rumble protocol. We do have some future plans of releasing some new software, so we'll be able to produce better graphics, better sound, and have vibration. Our audio processing can play .wav files so we can have full-on music. We can do voiceover. The software can be quite complicated and upscale compared to the original [NES] software."

So I guess it's not the same old FamiClone chip...
With any luck it'll be a bit more faithful in NES mode than the competition...
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on August 23, 2005, 01:58:28 pm

From the comments:

Quote
they don't need a picture of a queer but the console is cool.

 ;D

Funny that they didn't announce all that extra capability when they were taking preorders.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Scott84 on August 23, 2005, 02:49:22 pm
Now only if someone could make a NES cartridge with an SD card or something so we can have every game on one cartridge  ;D
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Level42 on August 24, 2005, 04:13:32 pm
Where's the European version  ;D ;D ;D I don't need one, never liked the NES, for me it indicated the end of an era. It was the start of the "videogames are for kids" thinking in the industry....sorry
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Stingray on August 24, 2005, 04:51:41 pm
It was the start of the "videogames are for kids" thinking in the industry.

I'm not sure I understand this reasoning. People thought videogames were for kids when I got a Pong console for xmas in 1975.

-S
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on August 24, 2005, 04:56:30 pm

It was probably the Trix Rabbit on the box.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: testicle187 on August 24, 2005, 08:29:26 pm
As I've said before, it's pretty.

"The hardware's actually much more powerful than the original NES. We'll support 16 colors instead of 4. We do support stereo sound, and we did write in a rumble protocol. We do have some future plans of releasing some new software, so we'll be able to produce better graphics, better sound, and have vibration. Our audio processing can play .wav files so we can have full-on music. We can do voiceover. The software can be quite complicated and upscale compared to the original [NES] software."

So I guess it's not the same old FamiClone chip...
With any luck it'll be a bit more faithful in NES mode than the competition...

Could the original NES only support 4 colors?  I am pretty sure that is a total mistake on their part.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 24, 2005, 08:46:12 pm
As I've said before, it's pretty.

"The hardware's actually much more powerful than the original NES. We'll support 16 colors instead of 4. We do support stereo sound, and we did write in a rumble protocol. We do have some future plans of releasing some new software, so we'll be able to produce better graphics, better sound, and have vibration. Our audio processing can play .wav files so we can have full-on music. We can do voiceover. The software can be quite complicated and upscale compared to the original [NES] software."

So I guess it's not the same old FamiClone chip...
With any luck it'll be a bit more faithful in NES mode than the competition...

Could the original NES only support 4 colors?  I am pretty sure that is a total mistake on their part.
I believe they mean 4 colors per sprite.
Which sounds right to me.  I'd have to rummage the specs up again.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: testicle187 on August 24, 2005, 08:48:33 pm
I guess that would make a lot more sense.  Even atari could display 4 colors total.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: GGKoul on August 24, 2005, 10:32:45 pm
I actually have one on pre-order...  ;D
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 24, 2005, 11:19:46 pm
I guess that would make a lot more sense.  Even atari could display 4 colors total.
The Ataris were actually very strong in the color depth area.
It was rather easy to get the entire pallete out on the screen, and even the original VCS/2600 had a larger pallete than the NES to start with.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: geomartin on August 25, 2005, 12:08:47 am
This definitely sounds like a must have!  I wish Atari had gone this route with one of the Flashback consoles.  Here is the link for pre-orders

http://www.playmessiah.com/onlinestore/index.htm

Geo
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: RayB on August 25, 2005, 12:32:15 am
4 colors per sprite, and for character blocks (for background graphics).

I forget what the total palette was. Atari's displaying of "all colors at once" was a hack and only really displays them in bars. (Raster interrupt effect. Was used alot on the C64 too).

Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 25, 2005, 12:40:06 am
4 colors per sprite, and for character blocks (for background graphics).

I forget what the total palette was.
If I recall...
The NES has a pallete of 64, but 6-8 entries are variants of black.

Quote
Atari's displaying of "all colors at once" was a hack and only really displays them in bars. (Raster interrupt effect. Was used alot on the C64 too).
Actually, it's not a hack, as the 2600 and 5200 operated on a per-scanline basis anyways. 
Especially the 2600, as it only has enough RAM to deal with one scanline at a time, and that line has to be generated as it is drawn to the screen.

I THINK the 7800 was scanline-based too, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Level42 on August 25, 2005, 02:13:17 am
No, the 5200 didn't operate on a scanline basis, it was basicaly an Atari 8-bit home computer and I think that handled graphics very differently (much more advanced) then the 2600.
It had both the ANTIC and GTIA graphics chips just like the 8-bit machines, very powerful for that time. And definitly NOT scan-line based !
The 8-bit computer line feautured 256 colours and player-missile (sprite) graphics.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 25, 2005, 02:45:08 am
No, the 5200 didn't operate on a scanline basis, it was basicaly an Atari 8-bit home computer and I think that handled graphics very differently (much more advanced) then the 2600.
It had both the ANTIC and GTIA graphics chips just like the 8-bit machines, very powerful for that time. And definitly NOT scan-line based !
The 8-bit computer line feautured 256 colours and player-missile (sprite) graphics.
Yes.
But the hardware, while not near as low-level as the 2600, was still very scanline-oriented.
Heck, the first thing you do graphics-wise is upload a "display list" that tells the hardware what mode to use for each screen region, on a line-by-line basis.

I actually LIKE line-based solutions. At least for the time, they were far more powerful than full-frame ones.
Hard to say now, since there aren't any line-based solutions available anymore.


BTW, the 2600 had player-missile graphics, as well. It just only had 2 players and, IIRC, onetwo missiles(which makes the wide variety of 2600 games that much more impressive, particularly object-heavy titles like Space Invaders and Chess).

And PM isn't QUITE the same as sprites. There's some odd diffrences between conventional sprites and the PM setup, not the least of which is the missile sub-object.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Pik4chu on August 26, 2005, 04:01:21 pm
Atleast its a semi-reasonable price (59.99)  Still neat either way.  The SD idea would be totally cool but nintendo would never let that fly. if you want you could just DIY a box+emulator+card reader. Anyways,  Don't think I will get one as my original NES still works just fine! (surprisingly).  What they should do is build 1 box that can run NES/SNES (not at the same time of course) now that would be worth buying IMO.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 26, 2005, 04:55:00 pm
Atleast its a semi-reasonable price (59.99)  Still neat either way.  The SD idea would be totally cool but nintendo would never let that fly.
I'm surprised they haven't put out cease&desist letters at Messiah yet.

The hardware patents are gone, but they can still slpa 'em with a case design copyright.
This IS the same company that bought and destroyed large #s of NES and SNES carts to keep the prices up in the N64 era.


Quote
What they should do is build 1 box that can run NES/SNES (not at the same time of course) now that would be worth buying IMO.
SNES is harder to clone.
Though once you do, you get pretty close to a 2-in-1 box.
SNES is largely compatible with the NES. There's only a few changes that need to be done as far as I know(though they ARE signifigant ones).
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on August 26, 2005, 05:11:13 pm
I'm surprised they haven't put out cease&desist letters at Messiah yet.

Messiah claims to have legal clearance from Nintendo.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 26, 2005, 05:31:01 pm
I'm surprised they haven't put out cease&desist letters at Messiah yet.

Messiah claims to have legal clearance from Nintendo.
I'm even MORE surprised now. I thought Nintendo's policy on this stuff was very much "LALALALA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: shmokes on August 26, 2005, 06:02:18 pm
I think they have a verbal agreement that went something along the lines of:

Messiah:  If you agree to give us clearance to make this product please indicate so by saying, "LALALALA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Nintendo: LALALALA WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

Messiah:  Golden!
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: AlanS17 on August 28, 2005, 06:52:59 pm
Well Nintendo isn't making any more NES's or NES cartridges. Might as well make its signature titles (SMB, DK, Metroid, Zelda, etc) keep/gain some popularity. That's what drives sales of their newer systems, anyways. Plus we're not talking about emulation or anything. We're talking about playing original cartridges.

I think it's pretty cool. I have about 30 NES catridges, but all 4 of my decks are busted. I'm looking forward to it, and I might even consider it for $60.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: Tahnok on August 28, 2005, 07:50:05 pm
Well Nintendo isn't making any more NES's or NES cartridges. Might as well make its signature titles (SMB, DK, Metroid, Zelda, etc) keep/gain some popularity. That's what drives sales of their newer systems, anyways. Plus we're not talking about emulation or anything. We're talking about playing original cartridges.

Exactly, I don't see how Nintendo could stop them. They are creating hardware that they engineered themselves (it's not a pirate system), it just happens to play old Nintendo games.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on August 28, 2005, 08:15:40 pm
Well Nintendo isn't making any more NES's or NES cartridges. Might as well make its signature titles (SMB, DK, Metroid, Zelda, etc) keep/gain some popularity. That's what drives sales of their newer systems, anyways. Plus we're not talking about emulation or anything. We're talking about playing original cartridges.

Exactly, I don't see how Nintendo could stop them. They are creating hardware that they engineered themselves (it's not a pirate system), it just happens to play old Nintendo games.
The pirate systems are reverse-engineered too. And the hardware patents have long since expired.

Nintendo can only sue the famiclone manufacturers for copyright violations. Usually in the form of unlicensed distribution of Nintendo's software.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on August 29, 2005, 09:39:33 am
Exactly, I don't see how Nintendo could stop them. They are creating hardware that they engineered themselves (it's not a pirate system), it just happens to play old Nintendo games.

If it visually resembles the NES too closely, Nintendo could sue them for visual copyright.  That is why the Famiclones look so different.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: SirPoonga on September 27, 2005, 02:08:51 am
If it visually resembles the NES too closely, Nintendo could sue them for visual copyright.  That is why the Famiclones look so different.

diggnation said they can do this because the patent has expired for the NES.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on September 27, 2005, 02:26:49 am
If it visually resembles the NES too closely, Nintendo could sue them for visual copyright.  That is why the Famiclones look so different.

diggnation said they can do this because the patent has expired for the NES.
But the case design would be copyright, not patent.

And in the US, copyright law amounts to "If you are younger than Mickey Mouse, you are protected by copyright law."
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: M3talhead on September 27, 2005, 04:30:53 am
............I'm still buying one.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: MrTroy on September 27, 2005, 07:36:02 am
I'm getting one as well. I thought this thing wasn't coming out till AFTER the patent expired. And on top of that. What would be the point of sueing them? Nintendo won't lose any money on it's sales. If the hardware is actually an improvement over the original, they aren't actually violating anything are they?

Before I do my normal BYOAC forum babbling let me stop talking.... I'm getting one. :)
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: JB on September 27, 2005, 09:02:55 pm
I'm getting one as well. I thought this thing wasn't coming out till AFTER the patent expired.
The patent expired YEARS ago.

Quote
If the hardware is actually an improvement over the original, they aren't actually violating anything are they?
Maybe.
Could also be directly compatible and NOT violate any laws.



But either way, the patent expired quite some time ago. Hardware issues are unenforcable.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on September 28, 2005, 09:44:48 am

Hardware functionality issues are unenforceable.  Hardware appearance issues, visual issues, are still copyrighted.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: shmokes on November 06, 2005, 11:49:33 pm
Looks like Chad nailed it.  The thing is terrible.  Click for review (http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/6)
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on November 07, 2005, 10:39:53 am

The article is heavily slanted.  This guy looks like he was going to tear the thing a new one no matter how good it is.

Castlevania III is a known compatibility issue.  The game doesn't even work properly on the top loader, IIRC, and that's official Nintendo hardware.  It doesn't work on any Famiclones either.

With River City Ransom, he implies that he played it in one part, then says "God knows how else it
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on November 07, 2005, 10:42:15 am
One of that article's comments had this URL:

http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=698

THAT should be a really good discussion on the NEX, what it is and is not, and how good it is or is not.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: 2600 on November 07, 2005, 11:18:30 am
I thought it was odd how they laid out the controllers.  One of the links, or links to a link, mentions it.  The Black buttons are Start and Selet, Red buttons are Turbo, then there are two trigger buttons that are A and B.

The links like the nesdev one, etc give a much better overview and technical discussion of it shortcomings and why.  Very good read.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on November 07, 2005, 11:33:19 am
Yeah, I've been reading through that as time allows.  It's a very in depth, nonsales related discussion.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: MrTroy on November 09, 2005, 02:07:50 pm
Chad get one of these and tell me how it actually plays. I'd trust you more than this guy in the first place.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on November 09, 2005, 02:25:27 pm

Don't have a spare $70, unfortunately... not with Xmas coming up and the oil tank needing to be filled for winter.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: MajorLag on November 09, 2005, 06:01:15 pm
I have one. Got it fairly recently and haven't had much time to play with it. The only thing I could say was disapointing about it (in the limited amount of time I tried it) is that some of the sounds are not quite right. I have known no famiclone to get the sound right, though the official NES toploader does (now if only it had built in composite...)
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: MameMaster! on November 16, 2005, 05:28:36 pm
I just picked up one for $60 at VGXPO in Philly.

Still sealed as I haven't had time to try it.
 
I ended up recreating most of my  old game collection though  searching through  the bargain bins at the expo though!

I'll try it this weekend if I have time to set it up.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: koolmoecraig on November 16, 2005, 07:42:58 pm
I have one. Got it fairly recently and haven't had much time to play with it. The only thing I could say was disapointing about it (in the limited amount of time I tried it) is that some of the sounds are not quite right. I have known no famiclone to get the sound right, though the official NES toploader does (now if only it had built in composite...)

I don't see the friggin point here. Some games DO NOT work. The sound on most games is off. Why in the hell would anyone buy this thing? Half of the fun of "retro" gaming is re-living the experience of the original games. Sound is a HUGE part of this.

You can find original nintendos for like $20. Besides the "cool look" tell me one reason that you want this. Wireless controllers? Wow. Last time I checked my couch wasn't 40 feet from my tv.



Title: Re: new NES
Post by: ChadTower on November 18, 2005, 11:55:13 am

You can find original Nintendos for $5 all the time.

Of course, it will take you 50 tries to find one that's not all blinky.
Title: Re: new NES
Post by: TurboC-- on November 18, 2005, 01:06:16 pm
4 colors per sprite, and for character blocks (for background graphics).

I forget what the total palette was. Atari's displaying of "all colors at once" was a hack and only really displays them in bars. (Raster interrupt effect. Was used alot on the C64 too).

Check out Keystone Capers or Planet Patrol.  Bars define the regions, but not the graphics.  Display list interrupts could be used to great effect. 

For the remade NES I like this quote: "Who wouldn't want to have Contra with better graphics, stereo sound and vibration?" 

Errr, me.   ::)  (Well I never liked contra anyway...)